Cartridge Fork Service

Here is a link to a very well written and useful site discussing maintenance, disassembly and reassembly of VFR cartridge forks. (You may need to paste this link into your browser.) �Enjoy! �Larry

http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/VFR_forks.html

From the link above, it sounds like fork oil changes should be �routine. In fact, it sounds like a good idea to change the fork oil twice. First, drain the oil. Then fill and pump the forks, just to get clean oil into the valve stack and pick up any remaining dirty oil, followed by a second draining. Then a final oil fill. Anyone ever do that? Anyone? Beuler? �Larry

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Fork Servicing
By Miguel Mayo After reading the how to that Larry posted I decided to break out my manual and have a look see, the write up Larry posted covered most VFR except the Fifth and and Sixth Generation (98-03) There are a few minor changes that need to be addressed such as slightly different fork oil.

My 1998 VFR uses 10 weight oil, you can use the Golden Spectro 10w cartridge oil or use the Honda SS-8 brand (10w)

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Remove the lower Fairing

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Loosen the Handle Bars

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This is not too difficult 12mm bolt, you dont need to completely remove it quite yet.

Loosen the top clamp
[image: user posted image] The top clamp is a large hex key, just loosen don�t remove! Reach under the faring and loosen the lower clamp 14 mm bolt, its hard to reach, do not loosen too much the fork will slide down! Just enough to where you have loosed the initial tension, it is much easier to loosen the bolts now before you jack up the bike.

Remove the front brakes
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Remove the left side hex bolts and slip off the caliper

Remove the Brake hoses from the fork

[image: user posted image] Repeat this on the other side, it has 12mm bolts instead of hex bolts, the brake hoses on the right side are held on with 3 bolts, remove the outer one first to gain access to the inner 2

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Jack up the front end and remove the front wheel

Instructions On How To Remove The Front Wheel

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Remove the Forks

[image: user posted image] Once the wheel is removed and the front is jacked up, loosen the triple lower and upper clamps enough to let the forks slide out, be careful here! I labeled them with tape since they have different sliders.

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remove the top cap

[image: user posted image] This was difficult I had to place the fork in a vise and used a large rubber place mat that or a mouse pad, don�t use your wife�s place mats! That�s several divorce points for sure! Clamp it down in the vice and loosen that top cap.

using 2 14mm wrenches loosen the top cap off from the pinch bolt
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Remove inner assembly

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There is a spacer tube, 2 washers, a concave shim, and a large spring, take note of the spring shape the tight winding goes to the bottom. Dump out the old oil in a pan then remove the cartridge assembly by loosening the hex bolt at the bottom

Remove the Cartridge

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Place the cartridge in the pan and pump out the remaining oil.

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Make yourself a measuring dipstick

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Once the oil is pumped out of the cartridge it should slide easy, replace it back into the fork, then screw it back in with the hex bolt 14 ft/lbs , turn up right side up and begin adding the new oil, you will need 15.5 oz of it in each fork. Don�t pour it all in all at once.

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It is best to do both forks at the same time, since the fork oil level should be even for both. (You do this before adding the spring and top assembly back in) Pour in almost all the of the oil in then pump the dampening rod 10 times, make sure the little hole near the top of the rod gets immersed other wise no oil will make it inside the cartridge. Pump the outer fork 5 times too then use your dipstick to measure the oil level 5.1 inches to the top of the fork, (compressed shock measurement) .

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Get both oil levels to 5.1 inches and even for each fork

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Replace the spring, the 2 washers, the spacer, and the concave shim. You should replace the o ring on the top cap as well, screw it back on the damning rod and tighten it to the pinch rod!

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Top screw on the top cap you must compress the fork, return it to your vise and tighten the top cap to 14 ft/lbs slide the forks back into the triple clamp use the measurement in the picture the bottom pinch bolts on the triple clamp must be 36 ft/lbs the top hex bolts are just as tight as you can get

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Replace the wheel. Replace the brakes, fairing etc!

There was some glittery stuff in the oil, shavings from the sides of the cartridges I guess, and the oil was a dull redish brown. It feels a bit better, cant really tell didnt ride much at all.  It seems to be a little smoother, I was dealing with the brakes mostly, I bleed them as well. I also was fiddling with my PC2 settings trying to get rid of this backfire I have at low rpm and decleration.

Good lord that looks like alot of work :doh: not for the feeble minded mechanics like me biggrin.gif

Well I rode all the tightest twisties I could find today, the shock feels so much better, I am scrubbed all the way to the edge now on the rear tire, much more confident tossing it over in the tight corners, no bumpy feedback like before I did the fork oil change.  Seems to be consistant road compliance no matter how I flog her now. YEA BABY

you gotta do this if you have some miles on your bike!

Miguel, once again a great pictorial on how to do wrenching. I need to do this, but will wait until I do the rear shock. I don't think I could stand not riding on Sunday due to a half assembled bike. By the way, how long did it take? How did you decide to secure the bike off the front wheel, put it on the center stand and tie the rear wheel down? I need to look up the particulars for my bike, such as torque values, fluid levels, and triple clamp hight. The method of pumping and filling is a little confusing, but I am sure it becomes self evident after having the parts in your hands. I would love to have a clinic at my house, but most of the Cali riders don't like to wrench, oh well. I've been working on cars, bikes, and airplanes since I was 16, so it's no big deal to me. I just don't trust most mechanics. They could care less about scratching your bike, or parking it outside for the night. The last time I had it in, the little plastic tab for the left grip electronics (where the choke is) somehow got broken. The mechanic said it was that way when I brought it in. I think I would have noticed the choke lever mechanism rotating along with the choke lever!!! I fixed it by drilling a small hole and screwing in a very small screw I had laying around. Works like a champ. See ya next year at the races?????

Lewis,

I raise the front wheel by using the center stand, then a rack under the headers, works fine. �Just cant go cranking on bolts with all your might, the thing could tip over. �You can tie the bike down if you want for extra stability, but its stable.

The bouncyness I was talking about when I was in California is gone,  I would go around a rough tight left hander and get this bounce back, thats gone, its still bumps but not the bounce back, the new oil seems to smooth that out. It was kinda scary having the bike bounce back like it was not going to hold the line thru the turn, I ran wide once because of that feeling.

Goose, Aug. 31 2002,23:06Good lord that looks like alot of work :doh: not for the feeble minded mechanics like me biggrin.gif

Nonsence!

Working on bikes is a modular project,  you do it in stages.  If you tackle each section indiviually its not very complicated at all!  This shock job was actually very strait forward, its just a matter of undoing alot of bolts screwing off a cap, no big deal.  Lable stuff if your not sure where it goes, when you take it off. use lots of masking tape and a marker to lable stuff.  The hardest part is probably taking off the wheel. But even that is not too difficult, the brakes come off in a snap.


To answer Lewis Question, when removing the insides you have a spring, the cartridge, a spacer tube, 2 washers, and concave shim.  the Cartride is secured by a bolt on the bottom of the fork too, you have to remove it to pump out the old oil then put the cartridge back in when you put in the new oil, (just the catridge) think about it, they ask you to measure the oil level by measuring the oil height 5.1 inches, you cant do that with the spring or the other stuff in, its in the way also once you put that stuff back in (spring, washers, ect) the oil gets displaced almost to the top.

The stuff goes in easy you have to put the fork on the ground to compress it enough to get the cap back on,

Oh and also I took a look at how many threads where showing so that each fork had the pinch bolt in the same spot, the one that pinches on the cap to the cartridge dampning rod.

Miguel, actually, that explanation was very insightful. I think I understand. Just need the time to do it. Maybe in the winter when I can't ride. There ought to be at least one weekend with rain. You have the beautiful scenery, but we have the long riding season. In the winter, so cal is the place to be. On hot days like today, 105 degrees F with high humidity, I would rather be in Colorado. Next year, you should come through So. Cal and ride up with us to Laguna Seca. I'm sure we can scrape up a room for you. Maybe even clean sheets if your nice. We need more VFR members to make the trip next time. I would love to meet as many VFR members as possible. It's always nice putting a face to the text.

HispanicSlammer, Sep. 01 2002,07:59This shock job was actually very strait forward, its just a matter of undoing alot of bolts screwing off a cap, no big deal. �Lable stuff if your not sure where it goes, when you take it off. use lots of masking tape and a marker to lable stuff. �The hardest part is probably taking off the wheel. But even that is not too difficult, the brakes come off in a snap.

I just did my shocks today. Is it doable by the average Joe, probably. Is it a walk in the park, in my opinion, no!!! It took me 8 hours!!! My problems were as follows:
The cartridge Allen bolts (bottom of forks) required me to go out and purchase an impact driver and a set of long Allen wrenches, socket type ($35 at Pep boys). They would not come off with just an average Allen wrench as the inside spins. When I got the Allen bolts off, the right one was missing the copper washer. Well off to North Hollywood Honda (took 1 hour).
Lessons learned?
1. Buy all copper washers, O-rings, and fluid before you start the job.
2. Don't rely on the guy behind the counter to give you the correct fork oil, the 94' uses 5wt, not 10wt like the newer VeeFers.
3. Put your hand over the end of the fork tube when bleeding to create a vacuum (on the down stroke).
4. Clamp the fork in a vice when bleeding and filling. It just makes it easier.
5. Note the position of the hoses and wires before removing the forks from the triple clamps. I had to redue mine as they were binding side to side due to being misrouted.

This job can be done in about 2 hours if you know what you are doing and have all the right tools and consumables.

Yea there is always that one pisser of a bolt that wont come off! dont you hate that! I am suprised the 94 uses 5w, must have a smaller valve or somthing? more shims in the cartridge?

Come to think of it my allen bolts were on rather tight too, I have hardened wrenches and I slipped an old boxed end wrench around the small bend and gained some leverage that way. �It is much easier done in a vise though. �It took me 2 hours.

You are going to have to turn the top adjusters  all the way to zero and reset them to the desired postion, I am sure they might need to be fine tuned to get the right dampning settings.

I am so glad that I changed the fork oil. It handles so much better, I can't even describe it, but that never stopped me before. It no longer dives 2 to 3 inches when braking hard before a tight turn. When leaned over in a tight turn with corresponding rough pavement, it no longer hops the front end. It is also more compliant on the freeway. The only down side is I wish I had done this maintenance months ago. More to come when I change the rear shock next week (if it comes in) and my status with the finance minister, LOL. :devil:

most of the Cali riders don't like to wrench, oh well.

Yea there is always that one pisser of a bolt that wont come off! dont you hate that!

Yes I hate that. :laugh: �Usually there's more than 1. Sweating and swearing, arghhh.

I used to work on my own cars and bikes out of necessity. Mechanics don't work cheap. :doh: �Since those ancient Hawaiin diseases called Lacka Nookie, and Lacka Loot are in remission, I've concluded I'll change the oil, take off the wheel for a tire change, easy stuff. But that's it.

You guys that actually LIKE to wrench, hey more power to ya. I may take you up on that offer of wrench help one day Lewis. :cool: �But, I really just want to ride. :twisty:

Oh, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just ride. :Like that Honda ad, ride and ride and ride and ride and ride and ride and..... I don't think it even has any other words. :cool:

Welpers, add me to the list of people that have done this, it took me and a friend about 3 1/2 hours (we moved really slow so as not to make any mistakes) and really wasnt too difficult at all.  We also replaced the fork seals and dust covers on the forks which added a bit of time to the work.  My left fork seal was leaking so this had to be done.  I would have taken pictures of this but i didnt have my cam with me at the time.  Its a little more involved and takes a bit of inginuity in resetting the seals without the tool honda says you need but we did it.  

If anyone else is needing to replace the seals post something and i will explain how to do it without the tool the manual recommends.  Its not very difficult.  

Anyways, the bike feels alot better.  Its much smoother over rough stuff.  I havent really pushed it yet but im sure it will help tremendously in cornering.  I recommend this to anyone that is not afraid to dig into their bike a lil bit.

I unfortunately did not take enough pictures as I did this procedure but I will attempt to describe the process so that it can be done without much grief.

The VFR 800 has cartridge forks on both sides and no drain plugs to change the oil.  If you are strong enough, you can loosed the fork caps, put on an old rain suit, and lift the bike over your head upside-down to drain the fork oil.  If you are a few pounds shy of that type of overhead press, you may find it better to remove the forks to do the job.

The best way to start is by getting the front end of the bike in the air and remove the front cowel.  To do that you have to take off a lot of plastic leading up to it but it does make the job a lot easier.

Mark the position of the forks in the clamps.  I did this with an exacto knife by ever so slightly scoring the tube.  I also made measurements to check for proper alignment when I put them back.  I also to digital pictures of the cable and hose routing around the forks but that can be seen in the manual or if you just jot a quick diagram.

Remove the front wheel first.  You must take the brakes off to do that so the wheel clears.  Suspend the brakes with a wire or string so there is no undo pressure on the lines.  Loosen the pinch bolts on the axle nut side and loosen the nut.  Then loosen the opposite axle pinch bolts and remove the axle and the wheel.  Take note of the spacers on the wheel so they go back properly.  You will also have to remove the front fender.

Now you can crack the cap nuts on the top of the forks to prepare them for opening when the forks come down, take the wire clips off the top of the fork tubes (just below the cap nuts) that prevent the handlebars from sliding up and remove the bars.  If done carefully, the bars can be rested aside without any further disassembly.

Loosen all the pinch bolts on the triple clamp and slide the forks out individually.  Mark them left and right so they go back properly the first time.

You can take the top caps off without any major spring explosion if you just keep a firm positive pressure on the cap as it is loosened.  When the cap breaks free you will see the cartridge rod threaded into the cap being held by a lock nut.  There will be a spring seat stopper washer that goes under the nut and around the rod, a round washer under that, then the pre-load tube.

Take out the notched washer and using two open end wrenches loosen the lock nut and remove the cap from the damper rod.  Take off the round washer and remove the pre-load tube.  There is another round washer on top of the spring and then the spring itself.  Remove all that stuff.  The spring is wet with oil so as you pull it out have a shop rag ready to stop the oil from sliming you.

Now you can invert the fork and work the damper rod to get the old fluid out.  When that is done I suggest using kerosene to flush out the forks and get all the wear particles out.

I poured in some kerosene to fill the fork about half way and worked the damper rod about 50 times, then flushed the fork and did it all again two more times.

It takes some doing to get all the kerosene out but if you pump the damper and give it some time you can free up all the kerosene and get it all dumped.  The purists can even put some new fork oil in and then pump that out to be sure of getting all the foreign fluid.  Don't use a harsh solvent like lacquer thinner or MEK.  Kerosene is good because it is basically a light oil.

Once done the fork can be filled with the required 457CC of new fluid.  I used the recommended Honda SS-8, which is 10-weight oil.  I suggest sticking with an oil that is formulated for cartridge forks (SS-8 is).  I don't know what the differences are but it is the safe thing to do.

If you got all the fluid out, you don't have to worry about measuring the distance the fluid sits from the top of the fork tube.  If you put 457 cc of fluid back in, it will be correct.

Now put the spring back in with the tight wound ends down as suggested by Honda.

Put back the first washer the same way it came out with the flat side down.  Put in the pre-load spacer and the next washer.  Now with the lock nut on the cartridge rod screwed all the way down on the threads, screw the fork top cap back on and lock it in place with the nut.  Insert the spring seat stopper and close the whole thing up by screwing the top cap down with the proper socket and some strong-arm pressure pressing down.  Be careful to get it straight so you don't strip the threads.  This is the only point that you may need an assistant to hold things true and eyeball the cap to see if it is going on straight.

The next step is to get the forks back on the bike without any spring tension that would cause weird steering and undo wear or stickshon.

Slide the tubes into the triple clamp to the proper height with the cables and wires in the same relation to took them off in.  Snug but don't tightened the bottom bolts.  Do each side a little at a time alternating between the bolts.

Put the wheel and brakes back on.  Tighten the axle to spec. (43 ft / lbs) but don't tighten the pinch bolts yet.

Grab the bottom of the forks and give them a shake back and forth to take out any tension that the tightening so far may have introduced.

Go to the top tripple clamp pinch bolts and alternately tighten to spec. (16 ft / lbs) and then alternately tighten the lower pinch bolts to spec. (36 ft / lbs).  Put the handlebars back on.

Now take the bike off the support that kept the front end in the air and with the front brake grabbed tightly, bounce the front end a few times.  This allows the bottom of the forks to settle on a spot on the axle with no tension.  Remember you haven't tightened the pinch bolts yet and left fork still floats on the axle even though the axle bolt was torqued down because it compressed against a shoulder and spacers on the axle, not the side of the left fork.

Get off easy without disturbing the bounce you just made and sneak up slowly and torque the pinch bolts alternately to spec (16 ft/ lbs).

Put all the plastic back in place with an attempt not to have any spare clips or screws left over, sometimes easier said than done.

Reach around your back and give yourself a pat for doing a great job and take a ride.  A long one.   wheel.gif

Bob Ratcliffe    Loudon Tenn.

Merged with another how-to

Well just a reminder that I waited W-A-Y to long to r/r fork-oil
19,000 miles and over year. Just change your fork oil kids!!
Don't be a lazy old man and yes have all the things you might
need before hand. So a simple oil change don't turn into a
Pisser. Oh! :idea:  Wow its like buyin the H.S.U. forks for the price of some fork oil.  BTW  H.S.U.= hot set-up

hi there,need help  :wow:  does anyone have the measurements for the spring (oem) lengths. 98 model. slippery silver  :wheel: if spring is stuffed will replace, thanks....

I note that everybody talks about fork oil weight as though it is a model specific specification. Over in the SV world where I also hang out, changing fork oil is something of an initiation ritual as Suzuki ships the bikes with something called oil in the forks that is roughly the same viscosity as water.

Going up a viscosity level will increase damping, both compression and rebound. If you have stiffer than stock springs, you may need "thicker" oil in you forks to control rebound. Too thick and your forks will become harsh, unable to react quickly enough to high speed compression forces.

Basically, damping is intended to stop the forks from compressing any further once the compressing force stops, but is not intended to add resistance to the compression while force is being applied. The springs do that. Then rebound damping is intended to control the spring rebound. The whole point is to keep the tire on the pavement all the time.

Anyway, don't be afraid to try thicker oil if your forks seem to "pogo" when you hit a bump, or thinner oil if they seem excessively harsh.

And you can mix viscosities, say 20 wt with 30 wt, to achieve something in between, say 25 wt.

After I changed the springs to a heavier set I thought about going with a lighter oil since I seem to get too much damping now with the OEM 10w fork oil, I am think a 7w would give me more compliant tracking and I wouldnt need to buy $150 gold valves.  I wouldnt know where to begin with changing shims in the cartridge.

Slammer!

This is, again, a great pictorial write up you�ve made! Showing theese pics is so much more educational than the text in the Haynes manual (or the Honda one for that matter).  I�ve been taking down my 94 fork several times lately. First new fork seals, then a new inner fork leg for one fork (and new oil in the other) - then new springs, and finally (?) I�m putting in Traxxion shims in the stock cartridge. So I�ve done this and done it over, fairly recently. I think there are maybe some points that you should consider putting in it and some that you may want to take away.  Some of them have been pointed out in other posts but I think maybe you should merge them into your write up. If the differences are due to differences between 750/800 bikes I don�t know or if you are of an other opinion in some step... but then you could point that out/ignore my post.


1. If you need to loosen the hex bolt that holds the cartridge in the bottom of the fork, do that FIRST, THEN the top cap BEFORE loosening the forks in the triple clamp! The triple clamp is the only vise needed for this work and using a regular vise (even with softened jaws) on a tube is always a risk and in this case a risk not needed to be taken. (I guess lightly clamping the lower part of the fork with padded jaws is OK...)
2. You make a measuring stick � why? Use the tape measure - it is easier to keep clean! If you need to mark the level in some way, use piece of tape on the tape measure. Putting a piece of wood in this area (as you do), were cleanliness is important for the function, does not make good sense. Small fibers in the valves or in the shim stack may compromise the action of the damping.
3. Use something to flush the fork with, especially if you notice some impurities in the fork oil. Kerosene � maybe, I would prefer any light oil.. Drain it out well (I let it pour out  over night) before filling with fork oil.
4. I would not open both forks at the same time, the inner parts are not readily interchangeable (I have no experience of this myself, just what I�ve heard) better safe than sorry! You don�t need to since you really don't compare the forks with each other anyway. You use the tape measure or a piece of thin tube (see below) to measure the distance from the top of the fork tube to the oil level anyway.
� Tip 1: To check the oil level. Use a small flashlight and watch the oil surface as you lower the tip of the tape measure down to it. The reflexion suddenly changes when the measure touches the oil. This way you don�t have to keep pulling it up to see if its oily.
� Tip 2: To set the oil level, slightly overfill with oil and use a thin stiff tube, lowered into the fork the right distance to suck up the excess oil. The oil level is set in one swift move.

Cheers,


Swiffer

I have a good set of tools, my measuring tape I have had since before High school, �Oil attracts dirt, I would rather not have dirt in my tape spool. �The stick is a throw away, I wouldn't use a dusty one with sawdust on it?

Flush with kerosene? �I have not read any technical articles about doing that, I would consider kerosene the impurity, how do you get that out, fork oil and kerosene do they mix? �Fork oil is not like brake fluid, you don't put kerosene in your brake lines? If your going to flush use new fork oil and flush it with that.

I wouldn't open up the cartridge unless I was going to re-valve or change the shim stack, just pump out as much of the old fluid as I could.

HispanicSlammer, Mar. 27 2004I have a good set of tools, my measuring tape I have had since before High school, �Oil attracts dirt, I would rather not have dirt in my tape spool. �The stick is a throw away, I wouldn't use a dusty one with sawdust on it?

Flush with kerosene? �I have not read any technical articles about doing that, I would consider kerosene the impurity, how do you get that out, fork oil and kerosene do they mix? �Fork oil is not like brake fluid, you don't put kerosene in your brake lines? If your going to flush use new fork oil and flush it with that.

I wouldn't open up the cartridge unless I was going to re-valve or change the shim stack, just pump out as much of the old fluid as I could.

I really don't want this to be an argument since we see most things the same way, just wanted to add some things to consider - in a friendly way, thats all.

About the tape measure, I'll rather have an oily tape measure (if I against all odds won't be able to wipe it off) worth a couple of bucks than risk getting small pieces of the wooden stick in my 1000 $ fork. But if you are certain that it won't loose fibers, I guess a sawed off wooden stick is all right, but why introduce a risk in the method?

The kerosene was not my first choice, the tip was from a previous post (however if you replace it with light oil as a last flush, as soon as you've pouredout the kerosene, I don't think it would do any harm and will propably flush the fork a lot better than oil. I guess the seal is the thing that could suffer from a to strong solvent. So one have to be careful there. To leave shavings in would propably be worse.

I really don't know how the brake fluid got into this discussion so I just leave that.


I wouldn't open the cartridge either, unless putting in a Gold Valve, reshimming or something. Never suggested it either, just told you why I had to do my forks so many times lately



/

Flush with kerosene?  I have not read any technical articles about doing that, I would consider kerosene the impurity, how do you get that out, fork oil and kerosene do they mix?  Fork oil is not like brake fluid, you don't put kerosene in your brake lines? If your going to flush use new fork oil and flush it with that.

The reason I chose kerosene as a cleaning agent is that although not a strong solvent like varsol etc; it is like a light oil unto itself and it will not possibly harm any seals or components in the fork.  It does mix and stay mixed with fork oil and if anyone wants to really be a purest, they can make a final flush with actual fork oil to further dilute the kerosene that may remain.  In a previous post I mentioned how important it was to give the inverted forks time to drain to let any solvent that may be used time to drain out.  Kerosene is no exception.  I let mine drain overnight.  I set the job up so that time to complete is not a factor.

Kerosene is relatively a cheap method of flushing the forks 3-4 times to get all the filings and residue out.  It has worked for me with no apparent problems for many years.

The strongest "solvent" I would ever dream of using other than kerosene would be a good quality paint thinner but so far that has been just a dream and kerosene has been the only thing ever used while cleaning my forks in any of the bikes I have ever owned.

More of a debate than an argument. biggrin.gif  Arguments are nasty and get personal I was just makeing a case, as where you. �

I was thinking you flush brake fluid with new brake fluid, not kerosene. Why not use clean fork fluid - besides the expense, some have taken to using transmission fluid for the fork fluid, I just wouldnt know what wieght the stuff is, but perhaps it would clean better than a $10 bottle of fork fluid. � What does kerosene do to fork seals anyway?

When I changed mine they always have a very fine residue of filings glittering in the old fluid, it makes sense to flush that stuff out, but I havent read anything that requires that step as nessisary for fork operation. �It isnt in the manual for example.

Flushing the forks is an extra step in achieving a "total" fluid change and started taking hold when inquiring people like yourself and othe self maintenance types started seeing things in the fork fluid that we didn't like, as in those fine filing residue particles.

Maybe the industry hasn't caught up to us yet?????

I know a car mechanic that actually used to put a garden hose down his engine oil filler tube and flush the engine with water at each oil change.  I DON'T DO THIS OR NECESSARILY AGREE WITH IT.  This was his way of getting a total flush.  To each his own.

What does kerosene do to fork seals anyway?

 I would think it is a lot nicer to them than stuff like varsol or some other harsh solvent like that.  I haven't needed any new seals yet and I have done kerosene many times in different bikes.

When I replaced the oil in my friends Triumph Sprint, I wanted to collect the metal filings that came out with the oil and take it into the salvage yard for money.  The oil was a silver red.  This was his first change at 12K since the bike was new.  I flushed the forks with kerosene and on the second change there was little or no metal at all.

ATF is great oil for forks the only problem I ever heard about it was that you can't rely on the viscosity to be constant even with the same brand.  I don't know the validity of that though and I am sure it would be a good cleaner also if someone was hesitant about using kerosene.  The idea is to pass a safe liquid through the forks to get out the crud.  Fork oil itself is great too but I just don't want to spend the $$ to get the three or more flushes I do.

I was thinking you flush brake fluid with new brake fluid, not kerosene

Brake fluid is a much more specific item.  It seems to be quite critical to get right.  There is dot 3,4,5 etc. and you can't mix and match some of these.  I too would not use kerosene to flush a brake system.  Fork oil on the other hand used to be single weight engine oil.  Now it has a ton of fancy anti- this and that additives in it but it still basically a lubricant and hydrolic damper but it doesn't seem to be as property critical as brake fluid and can take fractional dillution from another fluid like kerosene or transmission fluid without a major problem.

Just my $1.59 a gallon for kerosene opinion  :D

Anyone have a pictorial on how to do the Gold Valve (Racetech) addition? I've never really liked the forks on my '99 and I'm getting the itch to try something new.  

ps.  Do you guys still have a discount on Ohlins rears?

I'm in the process of servicing my forks and just wanted to add that my top bushings were shot. The bike has only 23,000 miles it, but I had 100% copper showing on the top bushings of both sides. The Honda manual specifies no more than 75% copper showing. I was in the process of replacing the oil seal (had a bad leak), and I noticed the bushings while I had the fork disassembled.

Also, can someone give me a suggestion as to what I can use for an oil seal driver? I have some 1.5" PCV pipe, but it is too small. It needs to be around 1.75, which I'm unable to find. I'm thinking about splitting the pipe along the side to enlarge it. Should the PCV pipe contact the inside or outside of the seal? If I split the pipe, it will be very tight against the fork tub and will apply pressure toward the inside of the seal--possibly distorting it(?).

mage1969, June 25 2004I'm in the process of servicing my forks and just wanted to add that my top bushings were shot. The bike has only 23,000 miles it, but I had 100% copper showing on the top bushings of both sides. The Honda manual specifies no more than 75% copper showing. I was in the process of replacing the oil seal (had a bad leak), and I noticed the bushings while I had the fork disassembled.

Also, can someone give me a suggestion as to what I can use for an oil seal driver? I have some 1.5\" PCV pipe, but it is too small. It needs to be around 1.75, which I'm unable to find. I'm thinking about splitting the pipe along the side to enlarge it. Should the PCV pipe contact the inside or outside of the seal? If I split the pipe, it will be very tight against the fork tub and will apply pressure toward the inside of the seal--possibly distorting it(?).

I think you could use the slit one. Use the old seal between the new and the PVC tube. That will protect the new one and also spread the preassure over the entire surface.

Good luck!

For driving in the new seals, the driver should be almost as large as the outside diameter of the seal. That is the part of the seal (basically a large metal ring ) that fits snugly inside the fork sliders (lowers)
The part of the seal that rides on the fork tubes is the part that actually does the work of keeping the oil inside the forks. It is a rather delicate thing, with very thin contact points that can easily be damaged. Some manuals suggest using a bit of thin plastic film wrapped around the top of the fork leg and covered with oil to get the seals over the ridges and burrs that are often found at the top of the tubes.
The idea of using the old seals as protection when driving in the new ones can work, sort of, but (don't ask me how I know) it's possible to drive the old seal into sliders far enough that it's a problem getting them out.
I hate it when that happens!

Is this process the same for a 97 VFR?  At the beginning of the post it looks like there are supposed to be some pictures which are part of the "How To" but they are not displaying ...