Bleeding/fluid Replacement On Linked Brakes W/abs On 6Th Generation (The Ultimate Guide)

This guide was created because I couldn't seem to find one that was very thorough and included pictures of all procedures. This guide requires the use of Speed Bleeders as it makes life so much easier! You can follow this guide using the old school method as well, but it will require more time and patience.

Readers Notes:

Left and ride side are determined as if you were sitting on the motorcycle.

Images come after descriptions.

Initialisms:

LBS: Linked Braking System

LPCV: Left-side (Servo) Proportional Control Valve (Battery side)

RPCV: Right-side (Rear) Proportional Control valve (Opposite battery side)

LMC: Lever Master Cylinder (Front)

RMC: Rear Master Cylinder (Pedal)

SMC: Secondary Master Cylinder (Left-Front Caliper)

FSM: Factory Service Manual

Parts Required:

One man bleeder kit (optional)

ATE SuperBlue Dot 4

Speed Bleeders Part Numbers:

Front right caliper SB8125

Front left caliper outer bleeder SB8125

Front left caliper inner/centre bleeder SB8125

Rear caliper outer bleeder SB8125

Rear caliper inner/centre bleeder SB8125L

Clutch bleeder SB8125L

LPCV SB8125LL

RPCV SB8125

Part 1: Theory

Part 2: Diassembly And Prep

Part 3: Procedure

Part 4: Assembly

Part 5: Clutch

Part 1: Theory

The LBS is confusing for some when it comes to understanding how it works. The function of the sytem changed from 5th generation LBS to 6th generation LBS. I'm not too sure what the changes were, but I do know they operate differently. The way the 6th generation LBS works is; when the front lever is applied, only five out of the six (three pistons in each left/right caliper) caliper pistons actuate as well as the centre piston in the rear caliper leaving the left caliper centre piston untouched.

When the rear pedal lever is applied; only two out of the three rear caliper pistons actuate as well as the left front caliper centre piston. The LBS only works when the motorcycle is moving however, you can test this by propping your bike on the centre stand, rotating the rear wheel and applying the front brake; the rear wheel will not stop spinning.

The way it works is by force. The SMC is mounted above the left caliper that's attached to the fork and with the motorcycle moving, the rider will apply the front brake which squeezes the pads on the rotor and that drag pivots the left front caliper up which actuates the SMC and brake fluid gets pushed through to the LPCV and then to the rear caliper centre piston. The rear doesn't work in the same way because there's actually a brake line that goes all the way to the front left caliper that actuates that one centre piston by it's lonesome with the application of the rear pedal.

[image: Part1-1.jpg]

[image: Part1-2.jpg]

Thanks to BartmanEH for the above picture!

Part 2: Disassembly And Preparation

You want your bike to be on a level ground and prop the bike up on it's centre stand for this whole procedure. Rotate the handle bar all the way to the left so the LMC is level. Remove both screws and remove all the old fluid inside the LMC. You can use a turkey baster or rags, whatever you wish. Once the old fluid is out, fill it up with fresh new fluid. Make sure you squeeze the front lever a few times just incase you got any air bubbles when removing the old fluid.

[image: Part2-1.jpg]

Using an allen wrench, loosen, but do not remove the left front caliper bolts.

[image: Part2-2.jpg]

Remove the seat and do the same procedure you did for the LMC to the RMC. Don't forget to press the pedal lever a few times to remove any air bubbles.

Remove the rear wheel.

Remove the two bolts that hold the rear caliper together. The inside one is tricky and I needed to use a long 12mm socket to reach it. Once the rear caliper is removed, mount it at the 10 o'clock position on the rotor. The reason for this is so the inner/centre bleed screw is facing up, not parallel to the ground.

[image: Part2-3.jpg]

[image: Part2-4.jpg]

[image: Part2-5.jpg]

Part 3: Procedure

The procedure and order we're going to follow is the same one listed in the FSM, but with more pictures and explanations. Sections C. and D. are the most difficult. You will need a helper as well.

USING FRONT MASTER CYLINDER LEVER FOR A. AND B.

A. Left Front Caliper, Upper/Outer Bleed Screw

[image: Part3-A-0.jpg]

This is basic bleed. Open very slightly, usually about a 1/4 turn and pump the front lever until new fluid comes out. Even though I use speed bleeders, I still pressurize it old school method just to be on the safe side. The old school method is; with the bleeder screw closed, have your helper pump the front lever five times and hold. While holding, gently unscrew the bleeder screw until fluid comes out and before the lever reaches it's maximum travel, tighten the bleed screw. Top up the fluid level.

[image: Part3-A.jpg]

B. Right Front Caliper, Single Bleed Screw

This procedure is the same as above. Make sure you keep an eye on the fluid level as it drains.

USING REAR MASTER CYLINDER PEDAL FOR C. TO G.

C. Leftside PCV (Battery side), Single Bleed Screw Actuated via SMC

[image: Part3-C-0.jpg]

This step is the most confusing and difficult one as it requires good timing between yourself and your helper. The SMC is not attached at all to the front lever in anyway. You can unscrew the LPCV bleeder screw and pump the front lever all day long and no fluid will get pushed through. You could manually actuate the SMC by hand and only a little bit of fluid will come out and then stop. The correct method to do this; from what I've gathered on how the system operates and without using a vacuum bleed tool is as follows.

Remove the two bolts that hold the left front caliper on. I used an aluminum L-bracket I had lying around to wedge between the pads so they don't close.

[image: Part3-C-1.jpg]

Tilt the caliper 15° from the ground so the inner/centre bleed screw is facing up.

[image: Part3-C-2.jpg]

Your helper will be on the RMC side pressing the pedal and you will be at the left front caliper in charge of manually actuating the SMC and loosening/tighten the LPCV bleed screw. The way this system works is; there's a brake line that goes from the RMC to the SMC and from the SMC to the LPCV. Because there's no reservoir at the SMC, there's no way for new fluid to replenish to continue being pushed through the lines and out the LPCV bleeder screw, however, this is where the RMC comes in.

When your helper presses the RMC pedal down, the SMC piston will get pushed out filling it with fresh fluid. Once your helper releases the pedal, you will manually actuate the SMC by pressing it in to the caliper with your hand and fluid will get pushed through to the LPCV bleeder screw.

[image: Part3-C-3.jpg]

[image: Part3-C-4.jpg]

Push the SMC in with your hand.

[image: Part3-C-5.jpg]

Do not release from this point. Tell your helper to press the pedal again which will forcefully push the SMC out and then once your helper releases the pedal, you will manually push the SMC in again watching for new fluid. Once fresh fluid is coming out, I performed a final pressure bleed by tightening the LPCV bleeder, asking my helper to pump the rear pedal five times and release, then I loosened the LPCV bleeder screw and manually actuated the SMC gently half way and then tightened the bleed screw.

[image: Part3-C-6.jpg]

Note: Even with speed bleeders installed, I did not manually operate the SMC more than once for safe measure. To further elaborate on this; continuously pushing in the SMC numerous times will not bleed the SMC to LPCV brake line because there is no reservoir at the SMC. You will push whatever fluid is in the line and it will become empty with air. One manual push of the SMC followed by one rear pedal actuation by your helper.

D. Rear Caliper, Inner/Centre Bleed Screw Actuated via SMC

[image: Part3-D-0.jpg]

This procedure is the exact same as the above. The only difference is, you're bypassing the LPCV and going all the way to the rear caliper inner/centre bleed screw. Pressurize the sytem the same way as above too.

[image: Part3-D.jpg]

E. Rightside PCV (Opposite Battery), Single Bleed Screw

[image: Part3-E-0.jpg]

This is the easiest step. Follow the procedure as in Section A. but using the RMC pedal.

[image: Part3-E.jpg]

F. Rear Caliper, Upper/Outer Bleed Screw

[image: Part3-F-0.jpg]

Another easy step, follow above procedure.

[image: Part3-F.jpg]

G. Left Front Caliper, Inner/Centre Bleed Screw

[image: Part3-G-0.jpg]

The last procedure, again very easy, same as above.

[image: Part3-G.jpg]

Part 4: Assembly

Top up both fluids if they are low and fasten all caps and lids back on the reservoir.

Attach the front left caliper and torque the pivot and joint bolts to 23ft-lbs. The FSM says always use new bolts, but I cleaned up the old loctite residue, re-applied some new medium strength loctite and re-used them.

Attach the rear caliper and torque the joint bolts to 23ft-lbs. The FSM says replace also but I did the same as the front caliper bolts.

Reinstall the rear wheel and torque bolts to 80ft-lbs.

Now would be a good time to prime (pump a few times) your front lever and rear pedal lever. Once primed, they should not travel a lot of distance; they should feel stiff. If for any reason the levers travel a larger than normal distance, then there's probably air in the line somewhere or you might have forgot to tighten a bleed screw.

Note: The FSM says to use new bolts, not because there is something wrong with the bolts, but because there is probably some sort of loctite already applied to the threads. Thank you Metallican525 for that insight.

Part 5: Clutch

I don't have to go in to any detail about this because if you just did your whole brake system, might as well do the clutch as it's very simple and same procedure at Part 3, Section A. Remember to turn the handle bars to the right though.

At the end, I took my bike for a ride and I had no idea that this bike has this much braking power! Mind you, my fluid was 6 years old which was probably the cause of that but this method works flawlessly.

I hope this DIY was very thorough and gave you a good understanding on how to tackle this easy but tiresome procedure!

Nice writeup, sure to be usefull as the procedure is rather involved and a pain in the rear compared to bleeding "regular" brakes. I would like to point out, however, that the FSM usually reccomends bolt replacement for a good reason. In this case it's probably not because there is anything wrong with the bolts, just that the new ones probably have some sort of threadlocker allready coating the threads. I personally like to put a dab of medium strength threadlocker on nearly all the fasteners on the bike, cause they vibrate and things come loose without warning. Might wanna add that to the re-assembly instructions, might not, just my opinion.

Metallican525

Nice writeup, sure to be usefull as the procedure is rather involved and a pain in the rear compared to bleeding "regular" brakes. I would like to point out, however, that the FSM usually reccomends bolt replacement for a good reason. In this case it's probably not because there is anything wrong with the bolts, just that the new ones probably have some sort of threadlocker allready coating the threads. I personally like to put a dab of medium strength threadlocker on nearly all the fasteners on the bike, cause they vibrate and things come loose without warning. Might wanna add that to the re-assembly instructions, might not, just my opinion.

You're right! I actually did use medium strength lock tite when i assembled everything so i will update the original post when i get to my computer!

Sweet! Now as soon as I finish paying Uncle Sam I can put money on getting my SS brake lines. Thanks for the write up.

Thank you, jay-d, I just followed your procedure exactly, and it worked out perfectly. I even used the blue brake fluid. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Thanks for the post. :fing02: Definitely a bookmark (if not Copy-Past for my garage booklet).

Just had my brakes and clutch bled two months ago for the first time on my '06.

I'll be sure to save this DYI for next time. :+1:

Jay, the photo in "G. Left Front Caliper, Inner/Centre Bleed Screw" shows actuating the SMC, but I think this line is done with the rear brake pedal - please confirm.

Also, for the record, I never remove the front left caliper for fluid replacement - I just manually actuate the SMC with the caliper in place. Works fine and you don't risk wearing out the mounting bolts or squeezing the pads together making reassembly difficult.

I'd also like to point out that with speedbleeders, when doing the SMC line, if you don't close the speedbleeder on PCV, the rear pedal will not force the SMC back out very effectively - most of the pressure seems to bypass the SMC and escape out the PCV speedbleeder. I figured this out too late after doing two bikes' fluid replacement. For that line you really are better off closing the valve between SMC squeezes. The problem is that the speedbleeders have sealant on the threads and don't like to turn easily and will get the sealant worn off quickly if you do close and open it so many times. I'm going to look into getting a fancy (expensive) Stahlbus bleeder for at least this one troublesome position - they're designed for maintenance free opening and closing.

I bled my old 2004 plenty of times using a MityVac but now have an ABS model and am not sure how much the process differs. Tips on the same procedure, but using the standard bleed valves and a MityVac? Thanks for the GREAT write-up!

I don't think the procedure varies because of the ABS, there are no bleed valves @ the ABS module that I remember while doing mine. The book does not state any different procedure for ABS vs non ABS systems. Oh, and I bleed mine using the standard bleeder screws and a mityvac. My tips are:

follow the book to the letter

have lots of patience

have more brake fluid on hand than you think you need (two standard sized bottles should do the trick)

use some loctite on the fasteners when you torque them back down, Honda says replace, but it's really only because of the threadlocker that needs replaced

Happy wrenchin!

BartmanEH

Jay, the photo in "G. Left Front Caliper, Inner/Centre Bleed Screw" shows actuating the SMC, but I think this line is done with the rear brake pedal - please confirm.

Hey, the picture looks like it's actuating the SMC but it's really not. This is the same line that fills the SMC so you can bleed the LPCV and the rear caliper centre bleed screw via the SMC.

Hope that clears that up :happy:

My God, how is your bike so absolutely, postively, spotlessly clean???

2thdr

My God, how is your bike so absolutely, postively, spotlessly clean???

Are we looking at the same bike?! haha.. my bike isn't clean!!

I'm sure it's cleaner than most, I bought it with 5,500km on it so it was always stored, hardly ridden!

It's got almost 20,000km on it now but it needs a good taking apart and clean next spring for sure! :tour:

Well, maybe, but my neat freak side is jealous of the bike in the photos. Thanks for the great how to...

Can you do one for removing the front end? LOL...I'm kidding but not really. Getting ready to take apart my front end and send in forks to be upgraded. My first time doing it...ever, on any bike. I'm sure to bork it up somehow!

Can I have somebody please give me a call? Followed the instructions to a T and still no luck... I'm Kawasaki and BMW certified as a motorcycle technician, and have had two other much more experienced motorcycle techs stumped as well. Soft lever and no pressure to rear brakes after several bleeds :( pleaseee! It's getting very expensive!

2002 VFR800A, has ABS

Thanks! Josh

518-291-0465

As Metallican525 did in post #9, I just used a vacuum bleeder to change the fluid in my ABS rather than doing any pumping of the levers as the OP indicated - worked perfectly. If traditional methods of pumping the pedal or vacuum bleeding aren't working, what I would probably try next is to reverse bleed it by forcing fluid backwards through the system. Air rises in a fluid, so pushing fluid from the caliper back to the master cylinder displaces the air and forces it out. I don't have one of these, but have considered purchasing it.

http://www.brakebleeder.com/bleeding-brakes/how-it-works/

Trust me, I've tried the reverse bleed with a syringe I had bought and some of the hose from my mity-vac. Good advice though, thank you!

apossibly89

Trust me, I've tried the reverse bleed with a syringe I had bought and some of the hose from my mity-vac. Good advice though, thank you!

Is your VFR800 equipped with ABS? webbikeworld caution the possible damage to ABS modulators by using reverse bleeding method.Not sure if VFR800 ABS works the same way as BMW.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/eze-bleeder-review/

Huge thanks jay-d; yesterday I completed a full bleed of the whole system on my '08 ABS. Used conventional method and it worked a treat. Brakes feel nice & tight but will have to wait until the winds drop below 80mph before trying her out.

Excellent "How To". :beer:

Skids

Huge thanks jay-d; yesterday I completed a full bleed of the whole system on my '08 ABS. Used conventional method and it worked a treat. Brakes feel nice & tight but will have to wait until the winds drop below 80mph before trying her out.

Excellent "How To". :beer:

How are you weathering the storms over there?

Jay-D, thank you! I have been trying to work up the courage to do this on my own, your guide is a fantastic resource. Thanks. :fing02:

I have a modded delinked to standard style brakes -  5th gen..... I look at all the pics and go.... look at all that sh!t I dont have to do.

2thdr

Skids

Huge thanks jay-d; yesterday I completed a full bleed of the whole system on my '08 ABS. Used conventional method and it worked a treat. Brakes feel nice & tight but will have to wait until the winds drop below 80mph before trying her out.

Excellent "How To". :beer:

How are you weathering the storms over there?

All done & dusted now thanks.

4 deaths however, mainly from fallen trees.

I forget sometimes that other countries have inclement weather .......

Well I have finally been riding the 1999 .... with front brakes only ... I went to bleed the back brake and holly cow I see no bleeder screw and a line running up unde the seat.

Now here I am - glad you all came to the rescue again -

thank you - I will let you know how easy / hard it is.

txsandman

Well I have finally been riding the 1999 .... with front brakes only ... I went to bleed the back brake and holly cow I see no bleeder screw and a line running up unde the seat.

Now here I am - glad you all came to the rescue again -

thank you - I will let you know how easy / hard it is.

Note that the 5 Gen system is slightly different than the 6 Gen (for which this how-to was written), but are similar enough that you can get the gist of it here. That being said, download the Honda Workshop manual from the download section here so that you have the 5 Gen procedure. There is one more front bleed point on the 5 Gen system not present on the 6 Gen.

nice --- thx for mentioning that!

My experience,

I did not do the SMC pump, and did have dramas, untill I found this write up a week later.

I didn't do the SMC pump either and had no issues, but my '99 doesn't have ABS either.

I haven't been here for a while, but I'm glad everyone is making good use of this guide!

For those that are not pumping the SMC manually, that's completely ok, but just remember that the fluid between the SMC and the rear proportional control valve still has old fluid in it! If you're ok with that, then by all means skip that step :D

jay-d

I haven't been here for a while, but I'm glad everyone is making good use of this guide!

For those that are not pumping the SMC manually, that's completely ok, but just remember that the fluid between the SMC and the rear proportional control valve still has old fluid in it! If you're ok with that, then by all means skip that step :D

From my tests I'm pretty sure the rear pedal pushes fluid THROUGH the SMC and thus also through to the PCV and ultimately all the way to the rear center piston.

Anyway for anyone here having issues with the rear brake forget about mounting the caliper on the disc like in the pictures in the first post. Just zip tie it to the frame so the caliper is as high up as possible and put something between the pads. I couldn't get all the air out until I did that no matter what. I think I literally bled the entire system a dozen times and had no air coming out anywhere. As soon as I zip tied it up there a bunch of air came out of the middle bleed valve and immediately the pedal was rock solid. I forgot where I read this but I'm pretty sure it was here on this forum that someone posted it so I just wanted to re-post it here in the hope it helps someone. Here's a picture:

I have a problem with my front brakes: they are blocked, especially on the left side. I bleed the system after i use 3-4 times the brakes. The front wheel blocks a little bit.

Balu

From my tests I'm pretty sure the rear pedal pushes fluid THROUGH the SMC and thus also through to the PCV and ultimately all the way to the rear center piston.

No. This is incorrect, the SMC does not have a reservoir, so therefore it cannot push new fluid through. It also does not operate from the force of the rear brake pedal, it works with the movement of the front tire and friction of the brakes which causes the SMC to operate. You must do it the way I've listed to bleed it correctly. I've stated this on the front page.

Balu

Anyway for anyone here having issues with the rear brake forget about mounting the caliper on the disc like in the pictures in the first post. Just zip tie it to the frame so the caliper is as high up as possible and put something between the pads. I couldn't get all the air out until I did that no matter what. I think I literally bled the entire system a dozen times and had no air coming out anywhere. As soon as I zip tied it up there a bunch of air came out of the middle bleed valve and immediately the pedal was rock solid. I forgot where I read this but I'm pretty sure it was here on this forum that someone posted it so I just wanted to re-post it here in the hope it helps someone. Here's a picture:

The caliper does not have to be high up, the bleed screw has to be facing up. That's all that's required, just like in the main tutorial picture.

I am having an issue with my gen 5 that seems to fit in with this chain of posts. My rear brake seizes when I use the rear brake pedal only. I can push on the rear brake lever 2-3 times and then the rear brake seizes. I can release the pressure by either bleeding a little fluid out of the LPCV (only PCV on the gen 5) or by bleeding a little fluid out of the center bleeder on the rear brake. Opening the more forward bleeder on the rear brake does not release the pads. I can manually push / release the SMC, feel the rear brake engage and release over and over without it locking up. The front lever seems to work the front brakes well but do not seem to do anything to the rear brakes.

I have rebuilt the rear caliper, it was in pretty good shape to begin with, replaced the rear pads and bled the system using this thread. Any thoughts before I just start changing rear lines PCV.......

So I realized that applying the front brake shouldn't do anything to the rear brakes unless the bike is moving via the secondary master cylinder.

After giving this some thought all I can think is that somehow rear master cylinder fluid is pushing through the secondary master cylinder, getting into the rear caliper center piston but because of the failure of or how the SMC is made that excess fluid cannot get back to the RMC. This would explain why the SMC seems to work fine but once seized by the rear petal I can free the rear wheel by bleeding fluid out of the rear center bleeder or the PCV. So I will start with rebuilding the SMC unless someone has a better suggestion.

Wondering if air in the smc can create pulsating movement in the caliper when braking.

When removing the left front caliper and taking out the lower bolt first, it is resulting in severe movement in the smc when removing the upper bolt.

could air get in from pulling out the cylinder?

I got some nasty vibration when angaging brakes. both light and firm braking.

but it goes away when i slow down and there is no movement in brake lever/handle.

I have measured my rotordiscs and they are within specs.

changed steeringhead bearings and tighten to the limit of free movement.

new front wheel bearings.

new brembo brake pads.

new bushing and seals in forks. (did the vtr rod and cap swap as well. with compression gold valve and re-shimming rebound valve)

ordered new Galfer brake discs today just to be sure.

Going to try some brake bleeding tomorrow.

Help!!

VfrViddy

Wondering if air in the smc can create pulsating movement in the caliper when braking.

When removing the left front caliper and taking out the lower bolt first, it is resulting in severe movement in the smc when removing the upper bolt.

could air get in from pulling out the cylinder?

I got some nasty vibration when angaging brakes. both light and firm braking.

but it goes away when i slow down and there is no movement in brake lever/handle.

I have measured my rotordiscs and they are within specs.

changed steeringhead bearings and tighten to the limit of free movement.

new front wheel bearings.

new brembo brake pads.

new bushing and seals in forks. (did the vtr rod and cap swap as well. with compression gold valve and re-shimming rebound valve)

ordered new Galfer brake discs today just to be sure.

Going to try some brake bleeding tomorrow.

Help!!

I am curious as to your statement, "could air get in from pulling out the cylinder?" What do you mean by this? Did you remove one of the caliper pistons? What cylinder are you referring to? In either case, I would have to say pulling anything out could introduce air into a system, if what is pulled out is part of the fluid containment in that system.

when removing the upper bolt of left caliper, and the lower bolt is removed, the Secondary master CYLINDER gets,pulled out and snapping just as the bolt gets loosened..

Sorry if my english is bad, but I do my best. (norwegian)

mabye I have to look at som dravings of the smc to see if there even is a possebility of the smc to get out and in again just like that.

collecting air in the prosess.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

In other Words.

Is it possible to pull out the piston of the second master cylinder..?

Sent fra min D5503 via Tapatalk

VfrViddy

when removing the upper bolt of left caliper, and the lower bolt is removed, the Secondary master CYLINDER gets,pulled out and snapping just as the bolt gets loosened..

Sorry if my english is bad, but I do my best. (norwegian)

mabye I have to look at som dravings of the smc to see if there even is a possebility of the smc to get out and in again just like that.

collecting air in the prosess.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Makes perfect sense.

Anyway..

Another try today.

Sent fra min D5503 via Tapatalk

Did not do much.

:-P

Sent fra min D5503 via Tapatalk

Thanks jay-d for the pics and write-up.

Used this weekend to change pads and flush/bleed all of system. Did not have speed bleeders or mightyvac and did old school way but had helper (a must) and seemed to work fine. Does take some time and patience but not as bad as I anticipated.

One tip I could add is to use part of the spanner wrench in factory tool kit as a spacer to put in between the pads while front caliper is removed. It is almost the same width as rotor and fits nicely in there. Saves time from trying to find some piece of scrap material that is correct width to use.

I'm following jay-d's awesome guide, but have hit a snag. I can't access the bolt indicated above. The issue for me is that the nearest banjo bolt (is that the linked brake line?) impinges on my socket driver such that I can't properly align the socket. I tried a deep socket to move the driver head "above" the banjo bolt, but then that's too long due to the proximity of the rear hub assembly pictured in the bottom left. Disconnecting the brake lines from the caliper would solve my access issue, but that seems like a bad idea on multiple fronts.

Buying more tools is totally on the table, but it's not obvious to me that I can easily find another socket or small adapter that is the magic length.

Am I missing something obvious? Is there a smarter way to do this?

RobF

Buying more tools is totally on the table, but it's not obvious to me that I can easily find another socket or small adapter that is the magic length.

Picked up an assortment of miscellaneous bits from the hardware store and got lucky. A 1.5-inch extender did the trick.

Any chance we can get the pics fixed in this how-to?

RobF, 1/17/2016 at 9:30 PM

Buying more tools is totally on the table, but it's not obvious to me that I can easily find another socket or small adapter that is the magic length.

[attachment=47363:extend.jpg]

Picked up an assortment of miscellaneous bits from the hardware store and got lucky. A 1.5-inch extender did the trick.

An old school wrench will do the trick 

I am new to this thread. I have taken off the left caliper and am trying to see if pushing on the rear pedal will push out the SMC--it cannot no mater what I try. Suggestions??

Hello All, I wanted to say Thank You to Jay-D! I used this guide and was able to Easily flush and bleed the entire braking system on my '07 ABS. I printed this article and used it as my guide in conjunction with the Honda Manual. My 14 year old Daughter was my helper, working carefully we did the job in roughly an hour. I DID change all the valves to Speed Bleeders(from Wire My Bike) before hand. Super clean and simple in both phases.

What If I pushed the proportioned rod too many times... Lol the manual said 3 to 4 then hold and repeat till no more air comes out. Well now it does nothing. Even with a vacuum pump...

i cant for the life of me find any bleed valve on the opposite battery side like the pictures have, found the junction box under the shroud but nothings on it.. 2011 vfr800 vtec. 

14 minutes ago, StormShadow2

i cant for the life of me find any bleed valve on the opposite battery side like the pictures have, found the junction box under the shroud but nothings on it.. 2011 vfr800 vtec. 

This only applies to bikes with ABS

ah thanks, i was scratching my head. 

Balu, 2/28/2015 at 8:46 AM

From my tests I'm pretty sure the rear pedal pushes fluid THROUGH the SMC and thus also through to the PCV and ultimately all the way to the rear center piston.

Anyway for anyone here having issues with the rear brake forget about mounting the caliper on the disc like in the pictures in the first post. Just zip tie it to the frame so the caliper is as high up as possible and put something between the pads. I couldn't get all the air out until I did that no matter what. I think I literally bled the entire system a dozen times and had no air coming out anywhere. As soon as I zip tied it up there a bunch of air came out of the middle bleed valve and immediately the pedal was rock solid. I forgot where I read this but I'm pretty sure it was here on this forum that someone posted it so I just wanted to re-post it here in the hope it helps someone. Here's a picture:

Question: If I have speed bleeders installed all around on the 800 on all the front and rear calipers as well as the linked brake valves under the seat, the process to swap all fluids is much simpler, right? I don’t have to go thru the above whole process of removing the rear wheel, rotating and remounting the calipers, etc again, right?    I can just use the speedbleeders normally to swap all the brake fluid?

You remove the rear caliper and mount in the upright position to assist in bleeding the air out as all of the pipe work is higher than the bleed nipples and aids the removal of air. I actually cable tie the caliper to the rear grab handles to get it to its highest point.

yeah, but I don't need to do that just in order to swap fluid via the speedbleeders, do I? Won't the system still push fluid thru it without taking off the wheel, caliper etc?

Bleeder should be the highest point when you are bleeding.  

I am having an issue with a sticking rear caliper, just rebuilt all three calipers. Any ideas anyone? I bled it too using the mighty vacuum hand pump. 

2 hours ago, Urbanengineer

Bleeder should be the highest point when you are bleeding.  

I am having an issue with a sticking rear caliper, just rebuilt all three calipers. Any ideas anyone? I bled it too using the mighty vacuum hand pump. 

If you’re 100% certain that the pistons are clean, the return hole is not clogged, then check the spring clip that sits between the edge of the pads and the caliper. The longer section of the clip should be where the pad that moves sits. I.e. The piston side of the caliper. The short end goes under the stationary pad.

It’s part #13 in this parts fiche...Rear caliper parts fiche

Duc2V4, 11/16/2017 at 2:01 AM

If you’re 100% certain that the pistons are clean, the return hole is not clogged, then check the spring clip that sits between the edge of the pads and the caliper. The longer section of the clip should be where the pad that moves sits. I.e. The piston side of the caliper. The short end goes under the stationary pad.

It’s part #13 in this parts fiche...Rear caliper parts fiche

Thanks for the reply. I made sure to put the short side on the same side as the stationary pad.

I guess my issue is this. My bike goes from a super soft foot lever to a rock hard lever with 5 full depressions. It spins fine when the pedal is weak, but when the pedal is hard and not depressed, the wheel takes the power of god to spin. It's sticking because the built up pressure from the pedal cannot release, for whatever reason.

It's at Honda for the front wiring harness recall for now, but im getting really sick of trying to figure this out. Still reading every topic I can on it.

Duc2V4, 11/16/2017 at 2:01 AM

If you’re 100% certain that the pistons are clean, the return hole is not clogged, then check the spring clip that sits between the edge of the pads and the caliper. The longer section of the clip should be where the pad that moves sits. I.e. The piston side of the caliper. The short end goes under the stationary pad.

It’s part #13 in this parts fiche...Rear caliper parts fiche

What is this??? Return hole for ? Is it on the master cylinder? I'm confused.

13 hours ago, Urbanengineer

What is this??? Return hole for ? Is it on the master cylinder? I'm confused.

Yes, on the MC. Return hole may not be the proper name but it is essentially where the fluid flows in and out of the MC. It’s easy to see it and see it work when dealing with the front brake MC. It’s right in the middle of the MC “coffin” and has a splash guard right above it. The rear MC should work in the same manner but might be harder to see it in action.

Another item to check is the proportioning valve. Did you bleed through that as well? How was the old fluid when you started the bleeding process? There have been some members who have had fluid that was congealed and essentially needed to pull the whole system apart to clean out the old fluid, or what was once fluid.

The fluid flowed well, but it was completely dry when I went to bleed it. I had the calipers off to clean them. 

It would’ve really helped to have a buddy doing this, as I think some air was slipping past my mighty vac. I got mad and just sent it to the dealer lol. 

I did not check the rear MC Fluid return hole, but that would make a lot of sense.

Great detailed write up. Any idea why I can't see the pictures attached?

Does the proportional valve unit need to be cleaned, before i have (another) go at bleeding? My calipers and master cylinders did.

And back wheel break gets stuck if I step on back brake, and loose up only after opening proportional nipple.

Ta, Trygve

2002, 6th gen.

jay-d, 4/7/2012 at 8:56 AM

This guide was created because I couldn't seem to find one that was very thorough and included pictures of all procedures. This guide requires the use of Speed Bleeders as it makes life so much easier! You can follow this guide using the old school method as well, but it will require more time and patience.

Readers Notes:

Left and ride side are determined as if you were sitting on the motorcycle.

Images come after descriptions.

Initialisms:

LBS: Linked Braking System

LPCV: Left-side (Servo) Proportional Control Valve (Battery side)

RPCV: Right-side (Rear) Proportional Control valve (Opposite battery side)

LMC: Lever Master Cylinder (Front)

RMC: Rear Master Cylinder (Pedal)

SMC: Secondary Master Cylinder (Left-Front Caliper)

FSM: Factory Service Manual

Parts Required:

One man bleeder kit (optional)

ATE SuperBlue Dot 4

Speed Bleeders Part Numbers:

Front right caliper SB8125

Front left caliper outer bleeder SB8125

Front left caliper inner/centre bleeder SB8125

Rear caliper outer bleeder SB8125

Rear caliper inner/centre bleeder SB8125L

Clutch bleeder SB8125L

LPCV SB8125LL

RPCV SB8125

Part 1: Theory

Part 2: Diassembly And Prep

Part 3: Procedure

Part 4: Assembly

Part 5: Clutch

Part 1: Theory

The LBS is confusing for some when it comes to understanding how it works. The function of the sytem changed from 5th generation LBS to 6th generation LBS. I'm not too sure what the changes were, but I do know they operate differently. The way the 6th generation LBS works is; when the front lever is applied, only five out of the six (three pistons in each left/right caliper) caliper pistons actuate as well as the centre piston in the rear caliper leaving the left caliper centre piston untouched.

When the rear pedal lever is applied; only two out of the three rear caliper pistons actuate as well as the left front caliper centre piston. The LBS only works when the motorcycle is moving however, you can test this by propping your bike on the centre stand, rotating the rear wheel and applying the front brake; the rear wheel will not stop spinning.

The way it works is by force. The SMC is mounted above the left caliper that's attached to the fork and with the motorcycle moving, the rider will apply the front brake which squeezes the pads on the rotor and that drag pivots the left front caliper up which actuates the SMC and brake fluid gets pushed through to the LPCV and then to the rear caliper centre piston. The rear doesn't work in the same way because there's actually a brake line that goes all the way to the front left caliper that actuates that one centre piston by it's lonesome with the application of the rear pedal.

[image: Part1-1.jpg]

[image: Part1-2.jpg]

Thanks to BartmanEH for the above picture!

Part 2: Disassembly And Preparation

You want your bike to be on a level ground and prop the bike up on it's centre stand for this whole procedure. Rotate the handle bar all the way to the left so the LMC is level. Remove both screws and remove all the old fluid inside the LMC. You can use a turkey baster or rags, whatever you wish. Once the old fluid is out, fill it up with fresh new fluid. Make sure you squeeze the front lever a few times just incase you got any air bubbles when removing the old fluid.

[image: Part2-1.jpg]

Using an allen wrench, loosen, but do not remove the left front caliper bolts.

[image: Part2-2.jpg]

Remove the seat and do the same procedure you did for the LMC to the RMC. Don't forget to press the pedal lever a few times to remove any air bubbles.

Remove the rear wheel.

Remove the two bolts that hold the rear caliper together. The inside one is tricky and I needed to use a long 12mm socket to reach it. Once the rear caliper is removed, mount it at the 10 o'clock position on the rotor. The reason for this is so the inner/centre bleed screw is facing up, not parallel to the ground.

[image: Part2-3.jpg]

[image: Part2-4.jpg]

[image: Part2-5.jpg]

Part 3: Procedure

The procedure and order we're going to follow is the same one listed in the FSM, but with more pictures and explanations. Sections C. and D. are the most difficult. You will need a helper as well.

USING FRONT MASTER CYLINDER LEVER FOR A. AND B.

A. Left Front Caliper, Upper/Outer Bleed Screw

[image: Part3-A-0.jpg]

This is basic bleed. Open very slightly, usually about a 1/4 turn and pump the front lever until new fluid comes out. Even though I use speed bleeders, I still pressurize it old school method just to be on the safe side. The old school method is; with the bleeder screw closed, have your helper pump the front lever five times and hold. While holding, gently unscrew the bleeder screw until fluid comes out and before the lever reaches it's maximum travel, tighten the bleed screw. Top up the fluid level.

[image: Part3-A.jpg]

B. Right Front Caliper, Single Bleed Screw

This procedure is the same as above. Make sure you keep an eye on the fluid level as it drains.

USING REAR MASTER CYLINDER PEDAL FOR C. TO G.

C. Leftside PCV (Battery side), Single Bleed Screw Actuated via SMC

[image: Part3-C-0.jpg]

This step is the most confusing and difficult one as it requires good timing between yourself and your helper. The SMC is not attached at all to the front lever in anyway. You can unscrew the LPCV bleeder screw and pump the front lever all day long and no fluid will get pushed through. You could manually actuate the SMC by hand and only a little bit of fluid will come out and then stop. The correct method to do this; from what I've gathered on how the system operates and without using a vacuum bleed tool is as follows.

Remove the two bolts that hold the left front caliper on. I used an aluminum L-bracket I had lying around to wedge between the pads so they don't close.

[image: Part3-C-1.jpg]

Tilt the caliper 15° from the ground so the inner/centre bleed screw is facing up.

[image: Part3-C-2.jpg]

Your helper will be on the RMC side pressing the pedal and you will be at the left front caliper in charge of manually actuating the SMC and loosening/tighten the LPCV bleed screw. The way this system works is; there's a brake line that goes from the RMC to the SMC and from the SMC to the LPCV. Because there's no reservoir at the SMC, there's no way for new fluid to replenish to continue being pushed through the lines and out the LPCV bleeder screw, however, this is where the RMC comes in.

When your helper presses the RMC pedal down, the SMC piston will get pushed out filling it with fresh fluid. Once your helper releases the pedal, you will manually actuate the SMC by pressing it in to the caliper with your hand and fluid will get pushed through to the LPCV bleeder screw.

[image: Part3-C-3.jpg]

[image: Part3-C-4.jpg]

Push the SMC in with your hand.

[image: Part3-C-5.jpg]

Do not release from this point. Tell your helper to press the pedal again which will forcefully push the SMC out and then once your helper releases the pedal, you will manually push the SMC in again watching for new fluid. Once fresh fluid is coming out, I performed a final pressure bleed by tightening the LPCV bleeder, asking my helper to pump the rear pedal five times and release, then I loosened the LPCV bleeder screw and manually actuated the SMC gently half way and then tightened the bleed screw.

[image: Part3-C-6.jpg]

Note: Even with speed bleeders installed, I did not manually operate the SMC more than once for safe measure. To further elaborate on this; continuously pushing in the SMC numerous times will not bleed the SMC to LPCV brake line because there is no reservoir at the SMC. You will push whatever fluid is in the line and it will become empty with air. One manual push of the SMC followed by one rear pedal actuation by your helper.

D. Rear Caliper, Inner/Centre Bleed Screw Actuated via SMC

[image: Part3-D-0.jpg]

This procedure is the exact same as the above. The only difference is, you're bypassing the LPCV and going all the way to the rear caliper inner/centre bleed screw. Pressurize the sytem the same way as above too.

[image: Part3-D.jpg]

E. Rightside PCV (Opposite Battery), Single Bleed Screw

[image: Part3-E-0.jpg]

This is the easiest step. Follow the procedure as in Section A. but using the RMC pedal.

[image: Part3-E.jpg]

F. Rear Caliper, Upper/Outer Bleed Screw

[image: Part3-F-0.jpg]

Another easy step, follow above procedure.

[image: Part3-F.jpg]

G. Left Front Caliper, Inner/Centre Bleed Screw

[image: Part3-G-0.jpg]

The last procedure, again very easy, same as above.

[image: Part3-G.jpg]

Part 4: Assembly

Top up both fluids if they are low and fasten all caps and lids back on the reservoir.

Attach the front left caliper and torque the pivot and joint bolts to 23ft-lbs. The FSM says always use new bolts, but I cleaned up the old loctite residue, re-applied some new medium strength loctite and re-used them.

Attach the rear caliper and torque the joint bolts to 23ft-lbs. The FSM says replace also but I did the same as the front caliper bolts.

Reinstall the rear wheel and torque bolts to 80ft-lbs.

Now would be a good time to prime (pump a few times) your front lever and rear pedal lever. Once primed, they should not travel a lot of distance; they should feel stiff. If for any reason the levers travel a larger than normal distance, then there's probably air in the line somewhere or you might have forgot to tighten a bleed screw.

Note: The FSM says to use new bolts, not because there is something wrong with the bolts, but because there is probably some sort of loctite already applied to the threads. Thank you Metallican525 for that insight.

Part 5: Clutch

I don't have to go in to any detail about this because if you just did your whole brake system, might as well do the clutch as it's very simple and same procedure at Part 3, Section A. Remember to turn the handle bars to the right though.

At the end, I took my bike for a ride and I had no idea that this bike has this much braking power! Mind you, my fluid was 6 years old which was probably the cause of that but this method works flawlessly.

I hope this DIY was very thorough and gave you a good understanding on how to tackle this easy but tiresome procedure!

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to say that my son and I bled all the brake lines and clutch line this past weekend on my 2007 VFR 800 RWB. We used this EXCELLENT guide from jay-d with no issues at all. All the lines were bled in proper sequence and everything worked as stated. We did it the old school way (no speed bleeders). Be patient, don't skip any bleeder screws as this will only keep old fluid in that section. It does take several hours to do this with two people. 

The one bolt that took the longest to remove was the forward bolt on the rear brake caliper backing plate. A straight wrench worked okay, just took several minutes to finally get it out. A short socket could not fit and a deep well socket was too long. I saw in the thread that someone bought a socket with a length in between the short and deep well. Good idea. Alternatively, we considered removing the rear sprocket. This looked like it would give a straight shot to the rear bolt with an extension and socket. 

Once again, thanks to jay-d for this excellent procedure and instructions.

Bill Mersch

aka MisterBill

First off - I'd like to say that IMHO this is one of the most valuable 6th gen guides we have - I'd like to request that it be pinned to the maintenance forum where it's readily accessible.

Secondly, although I've used this guide previously with success, I would like to add some nuances to Part 3, subsection C.  In that part, bleeding the Secondary Master Cylinder on the L. Front caliper and the Left Side Proportioning Control Valve (LPCV), I made a still unknown mistake and managed to get a HUGE amount of air in to the system.  After two hours of cursing and frustration I quit for the day and came back to it later.  Here is what I discovered:

* If you pump the rear brake pedal with the LPCV bleed open, the fluid will go directly through the LPCV and you will not add any fluid to the SMC. No amount of vacuum bleeding from the LPCV will add fluid to the SMC. 

* There is a specific timing of rear pedal actuation, SMC actuation and open and close of the LPCV.  While the instructions are extremely helpful, there were just a couple of things I missed.

• As mentioned, cycling the rear brake pedal will fill the SMC with fluid and will be felt as the plunger pushes out.  With the fluid gone however, you'll have to do that many times before enough fluid reaches the SMC plunger to feel anything happening.  You will have to go through the cycle below to purge out enough air to even get fluid to the SMC.  I kept thinking "WTF is wrong, this is supposed to move the SMC out but nothing is happening." You'll think you're going nowhere, but just keep at it until you feel motion at the SMC.  Don't forget to check the fluid level in the RMC as you'll go through quite a bit.  If you draw air you start the entire process again. 
• The timing is thus
  • Press the rear brake pedal until motion is felt at the SMC. The SMC plunger is retained and will not come out with rear brake pressure. See above if you feel nothing at the SMC while pumping the rear pedal - you may need to complete the drill below a number of times before that happens.
  • Release the rear brake pedal.
  • Push inward on the SMC as in the instructions.
  • Hold pressure on the SMC while at the same time opening the LPCV bleed valve.
  • As the SMC moves inward note the fluid movement out of the LPCV.  In my case there were many, many bubbles as the air purged.
  • Close the bleed valve while holding the SMC plunger in.  Keep the SMC under pressure - do not release it.   If the SMC is then released and allowed to return to the relaxed position on its own, the air compressed in the line to the LPCV will expand and push the SMC plunger out, refilling it with air.  You'll keep going in circles pushing the air back and forth but not purging it. If there is no air in the system this likely is not an issue as there's only fluid on either side of the SMC.  This is the main thing that I missed.  The key is to replenish the fluid in the SMC by only pumping the rear pedal to supply fluid from the RMC and not from the line between the SMC and LPCV.  The SMC plunger should *never* be allowed to move outwards on its own.
  • Now pump the rear brake pedal again to bring more air-free fluid to the SMC - you'll feel the plunger pushed out as new fluid moves in.
  • Repeat the cycle.  It may take a fair number of these cycles before motion is felt at the SMC if the SMC started out empty.
  • The SMC is small and does not move much fluid, so it can take quite a few cycles to move all the air out.
  • Lastly, while having a helper to cycle the rear brake pedal is helpful, it can also be done solo. 
  • Scrounging around some scrap wood I found a 24 inch piece of 1X2.  Placing it vertically on the pedal provided a perfect way to push down on the pedal from the opposite side.  I could push down while at the same time hold the SMC plunger with my left hand and feel it coming out. That feedback loop was helpful in "figuring it out".  It just leaned neatly against the frame when not needed until the next cycle.
  • If you didn't bollix it up like I did, it shouldn't take long to do this.  In my case even once I had it down it was still a good half hour until I was satisfied with it. 
• Lastly, you can check SMC operation.  Wear some soft soled athletic shoes and turn the steering head to right lock.  Now push moderately on the caliper with your shoe to activate the SMC.  Either reach back to turn the rear wheel or have a helper do it - if it cannot be turned then your SMC should be good to go.  Release pressure from the SMC and verify your rear wheel now turns easily.  You should also feel a solid rear brake pedal.  Top up the fluid and you're done.

While a PITA, IMHO this is a step that should not be skipped.  As we've seen with bikes that have rear calipers that will not release, the SMC can be a villain in that process, so keeping the fluid clean is important.

RBPOL, 10/10/2016 at 3:52 PM

I am new to this thread. I have taken off the left caliper and am trying to see if pushing on the rear pedal will push out the SMC--it cannot no mater what I try. Suggestions??

This is why I recommend closing the bleeder between actuating SMC and pressing pedal per my short form guide. Closing the bleeder (even if it's a Speedbleeder) and then pressing the pedal will force the SMC back out thus filling it.

Cogswell, 5/3/2020 at 4:09 PM

[...]

• Close the bleed valve while holding the SMC plunger in.  Keep the SMC under pressure - do not release it. [...]

While a PITA, IMHO this is a step that should not be skipped.  As we've seen with bikes that have rear calipers that will not release, the SMC can be a villain in that process, so keeping the fluid clean is important.

^^^this. I've asked for this step to be modified in the guide a few times and many people are missing this important step--close the bleeder between actuating SMC and before refilling with rear pedal. I reference this in my short form guide.

I would have loved to see how they filled the braking system at the factory.   It's hard to envision the workers screwing around with all this plumbing and getting these things out the door.  If they had some special equipment for it, I wish I knew what it was . . .

34 minutes ago, Cogswell

I would have loved to see how they filled the braking system at the factory.   It's hard to envision the workers screwing around with all this plumbing and getting these things out the door.  If they had some special equipment for it, I wish I knew what it was . . .

That's an interesting thought.......some kind of power device for sure.

jay-d, 5/11/2015 at 2:52 PM

No. This is incorrect, the SMC does not have a reservoir, so therefore it cannot push new fluid through. It also does not operate from the force of the rear brake pedal, it works with the movement of the front tire and friction of the brakes which causes the SMC to operate. You must do it the way I've listed to bleed it correctly. I've stated this on the front page.

I also recently changed brake fluid on my VFR (05 ABS) and I also did not manually actuate the SMC. I connected tubing to rear caliper center/inner nipple and just kept pressing the rear brake pedal and it pumped fluid all the way through and flushed out old fluid/flushed in new fluid (the rear fluid reservoir under the seat was going down too and I kept topping it up). 

If the SMC cannot push new fluid through, then how comes fluid was being pushed through to the rear caliper center nipple when I kept pressing down on the rear brake pedal?

The only nipples I did not touch were the two Proportional Control Valve nipples under the seat. I just did all the nipples on the calipers front and rear.

Just curious as to what happens when I don't touch the PCV nipples? In any case, fluid was definitely flowing through all the way to the rear caliper center nipple when repeatedly pressing down on rear brake pedal, so that must have been coming through from rear reservoir to SMC to LPCV to rear caliper center nipple. But definitely would like to know more because if there is definitely something that I missed then I would like to re-flush my brake fluids again and start over properly...