I noticed on the new apps thread there is an app for finding non-ethanol fuel in local areas(if there are any to be found).
As it stands now there are very few left and "those ppl that do what they do" are in the process of trying to go to E15 which hasn't happened yet(with the help of the AMA).
So I didn't want to get off topic in the apps thread (which I can see when a interesting app is brought up, the potential to get side tracked on the off spring of what the apps for can be tempting).
That being said, I think it would be nice to locate pure gas, but that's very limited to find even with the help of the app. So what can we do in the mean time. I use an additive in the gas to help lub the fuel system to retard the effects of the drying effects of the ethanol. There may be more products that do this but I just use one I feel works. Octane boost is not it.
I'm not getting anything from this stuff, And I couldn't sware it works, but it's suppose to lub the top end where the gas is used. I do know my older Jeep runs smoother using it, and my lawnmower. As far as the bike it's such a powerful engine that it's hard to see the difference, but I believe it helps.
"Marvel Mystery Oil"
Two words Leaded Race fuel, it offers Real results, completely decarbonises, Piston crowns, Valves , exhaust o2 sensors , Cat , tail pipes, lubricates fuel pumps and valve seat. cylinder walls ect . Cup or 2 pertank.
Monk, do you use Marvel all the time/every tank full? If so, how much do you use per gallon? I use an ounce of Seafoam/gal regularly. Not sure if it helps with the E10 issue or not though.
Chuck
[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 April 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:
Two words Leaded Race fuel, it offers Real results, completely decarbonises, Piston crowns, Valves , exhaust o2 sensors , Cat , tail pipes, lubricates fuel pumps and valve seat. cylinder walls ect . Cup or 2 pertank.
Leaded fuel poisons Catalytic Converters:
http://en.wikipedia....onverter#Damage
Not good for O2 sensors either:
http://en.wikipedia....i/Oxygen_sensor
The materials in modern fuel injected vehicles are meant to withstand Ethanol in gasolines without any worries.
There is less thermal energy in Ethanol, so horsepower will suffer slightly, but there should not be any damage.
I have been running Ethanol blended fuel in my 800 ever since I bought it, 12 years and 80,000 kilometers ago, with no ill effects to the fuel injection system or engine itself.
The difference between pure gas and E10 in my 4th gen was going from 50mpg easy to maybe 42mpg. Haven't had any running issues though.
There is approximately 33% less energy in a gallon of ethanol Vs a gallon of gasoline.
All else being equal, identical vehicles running on Ethanol Vs gas would expect to see about a 1/3 reduction in fuel economy.
However, all else is NOT equal. Vehicles designed for ethanol (the new flex-fuel types) use higher compression ratios and more ignition advance, as ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline. Also the ECU in a flex-fuel vehicle compensates for the type of fuel being used via the air/fuel ratios and knock sensors, constantly adjusting the engine parameters to utilize the type of fuel in the tank most efficiently.
With E10, one would expect only about a 3-4% reduction in BTU/gallon over regular gasoline. Therefore the fuel economy on a non-flex fuel vehicle would likely suffer a similar amount, given similar driving habits.
Fuel economy
In theory, all fuel-driven vehicles have a
fuel economy (measured as miles per US gallon, or liters per 100 km) that is directly proportional to the fuel's energy content.
[54] In reality, there are many other variables that come into play that affect the performance of a particular fuel in a particular engine. Ethanol contains approx. 34% less energy per unit volume than gasoline, and therefore in theory, burning pure ethanol in a vehicle will result in a 34% reduction in miles per US gallon, given the same fuel economy, compared to burning pure gasoline. Since ethanol has a higher octane rating, the engine can be made more efficient by raising its compression ratio. In fact using a variable turbocharger, the compression ratio can be optimized for the fuel being used, making fuel economy almost constant for any blend.
[25][26] For E10 (10% ethanol and 90% gasoline), the effect is small (~3%) when compared to conventional gasoline,
[55] and even smaller (1-2%) when compared to oxygenated and reformulated blends.
[56] For E85 (85% ethanol), the effect becomes significant. E85 will produce lower mileage than gasoline, and will require more frequent refueling. Actual performance may vary depending on the vehicle. Based on EPA tests for all 2006 E85 models, the average fuel economy for E85 vehicles resulted 25.56% lower than unleaded gasoline.
[57] The EPA-rated mileage of current USA flex-fuel vehicles
[58] should be considered when making price comparisons, but E85 is a high performance fuel, with an octane rating of about 94-96, and should be compared to premium.
[59] In one estimate
[60] the US
retail price for E85 ethanol is 2.62
US dollar per
gallon or 3.71 dollar corrected for energy equivalency compared to a gallon of gasoline priced at 3.03 dollar. Brazilian cane ethanol (100%) is priced at 3.88 dollar against 4.91 dollar for E25 (as July 2007).
Monk, there are no E10 issues or even E15 issues to worry about with your bike.
The 6th gen VFR is CARB2012 compliant, and part of that certification is the ability to operate with fuels that have ethanol levels up to 15% without harming the engine or fuel system.
There was talked all winter on my snowmobile forum about ethanol fuels and 2stroke engines, so I've been doing a lot of reading in to the subject already.
The only thing you might see, is a small decrease in power, maybe a HP or two, and a few less miles per tank as the ethanol burns cleaner but doesn't have BTUs like good old dino based fuels.
And don't go kidding yourself thinking by putting premium fuel in your tank you'll get ethanol free fuel. Search the net, you'll find that to make premium fuel they add about 6% ethanol along with other additives to boost the octane number, so even if the pump says Ethanol free, their permium will have some in it. Oh premium fuel actually produces less power than good old 87 regular does. So if your running it your stock 800 your wasting your money and robbing yourself of power.
But don't take my word for read the truth for yourself.
http://www.roadandtr...um-fuel-futures
http://en.m.wikipedi...oline#section_3
The real reason for the push to E15 fuel is because Ethanol is an octane enhancer. This means they can mix it with lower quality less refined fuel yet still maintain the same octane levels. It's not the ethanol that is hard on your fuel system. It's the crap fuel they are mixing with it.
Ethanol, after its all added up, has no cost/performance/emissions/mileage advantage over straight gas. Unless your running forced induction, but that's a serperate subject.
I use a splash of StarTron in ever fill up. Low end is now much smoother and the bike runs great. Highly recommend.
Canook
Yeah Tell my 100,000 mile working Cat and 02 sensors, been using since a vfr Baby
You better find some better info.
Two words Leaded Race fuel, it offers Real results, completely decarbonises, Piston crowns, Valves , exhaust o2 sensors , Cat , tail pipes, lubricates fuel pumps and valve seat. cylinder walls ect . Cup or 2 pertank.
I have been running Ethanol blended fuel in my 800 ever since I bought it, 12 years and 80,000 kilometers ago, with no ill effects to the fuel injection system or engine itself.
ive seen horrible effects in all my lawnmowers , weedeaters and blowers from ethonal fuel, ethonal attacks rubber(gas leaks). and when it absorbs water which is what e10 is good for, then Performance goes to Crap. The gas goes stale %75 faster.
Monk, do you use Marvel all the time/every tank full? If so, how much do you use per gallon? I use an ounce of Seafoam/gal regularly. Not sure if it helps with the E10 issue or not though.
Chuck
I use about 1 or 2 ounces per tank, and about every 2nd/3rd tank.
Seafoam I use a few ounces every 2 / 4 months, Or if it feels like it might need some(water in the "ground tank"). Also will use some SF in the oil prior to draining my sump(run it about 30 miles with 2/4 ounces).
Lawnmowers weedeaters and blowers are not engineered with the same quality/materials spec of the fuel system components as are modern fuel injected vehicles. So yes I would expect to see problems in those applications.
Certain materials commonly used with gasoline may be incompatible with high-level ethanol blends, causing them to degrade and contaminate the fuel. Metals that have been shown to degrade over time in the presence of high-level alcohol blends include brass, lead, zinc and lead-based solder. Nonmetallic materials that degrade when in contact with ethanol include natural rubber, polyurethane, cork gasket material, leather, polyvinyl chloride (PVC) polyamides, and certain thermoplastic or thermoset polymers.
Monk, there are no E10 issues or even E15 issues to worry about with your bike.
The 6th gen VFR is CARB2012 compliant, and part of that certification is the ability to operate with fuels that have ethanol levels up to 15% without harming the engine or fuel system.
But don't take my word for read the truth for yourself.
http://www.roadandtr...um-fuel-futures
http://en.m.wikipedi...oline#section_3
The real reason for the push to E15 fuel is because Ethanol is an octane enhancer. This means they can mix it with lower quality less refined fuel yet still maintain the same octane levels. It's not the ethanol that is hard on your fuel system. It's the crap fuel they are mixing with it.
I use the regular fuel... So you're saying that it "won't" harm my '08(dry out) any rubber/plastic parts ? That's the reason I use it........ (I'll also read your links)....Thx.
Any modern fuel injected vehicle will operate without difficulty on e-10 as the materials selected in the fuel systems are compatible with ethanol, whereas cheap garden equipment is not necessarily so.
On the other hand, unplated steel, nickel-plated steel, stainless steel, black iron and bronze have shown resistance to ethanol corrosion, with nonmetallic materials like reinforced fiberglass, Buna-N, Neoprene rubber, polypropylene, nitrile rubber, Viton and Teflon meeting acceptable usage standards with E85.
I prefer ethanol free for winter storage (bike or boat) and for daily use in my Duc, which has a plastic tank. There was a recently settled class action lawsuit against Ducati for their plastic tanks which have been subject to swelling, presumably because of ethanol fuels. KTM has suffered similar problems. However, performance wise, I don't notice a difference except perhaps in mpg. You can check the following website for ethanol free fuel in your area.
http://pure-gas.org/
Also some anecdotal information:
My 1994 fuel injected ford ranger, 232,000 kilometers on it, bought at 185,000 kilometers, been running ethanol blended fuel for as long as I've had it and probably quite some time before that, zero fuel system issues.
Four different minivans (one dodge, three toyotas) in our family over the last fifteen years, zero fuel system issues running ethanol gasoline.
500,000 kilometers total on those four vans, and the latest one still going strong at 110,000 km on the clock (2004 Toyota sienna) with zero fuel system issues.
I use the regular fuel... So you're saying that it "won't" harm my '08(dry out) any rubber/plastic parts ? That's the reason I use it........ (I'll also read your links)....Thx.
Right...
My 07 sits for 5 months a year during winter storage. All I do is fill the tank and add some stable and cover the bike up. If anyone would have to worry about fuel lines drying up and cracking it would be those of us who have long winter storage time to deal with. How many topics are on the board for fuel line replacement work due to dried out lines?
My 04 snowmobile sits even longer because ridig season for it is 3 months or less and it's problem free.
My dad's 1980 CB750 custom that he has had since 1987 still has the same fuel lines on it since the day he bought it.
Ethanol is not the big evil everyone makes it out to be. In most cases..... ;)
The plastic fuel tank thing its a is a fault in the type of plastic used that wasn't fuel friendly, the manufactors cheaped out to save money and got bit in the rear end over it. CBRs have had plastic fuel tanks for years problem free.
I use the regular fuel... So you're saying that it "won't" harm my '08(dry out) any rubber/plastic parts ? That's the reason I use it........ (I'll also read your links)....Thx.
Right...
Thx, Dave .......
Its not the design, its the fuel degrading if not used, if e10 sits. It will turn brown within a month.
Its more fuel becoming stale than lack of design
Ive had alot of trouble with anything that doesnt see alot of use, doesnt matter if Auto, weedeater or other. I havent had any bike issues with e10, cause it runs multi tanks per week, plus its not on 100% e10 so it doesnt have all the carbon buildup issues either, that enthonal has.
I had a bike one time, there was a screen in the muffler that was supposed to be cleaned every 11,000 miles. I checked it and yep, going to have to clean it, full of black carbon. half tank of leaded race fuel , you could eat off the metal it was so clean afterwards. Course Thats too much for a Catted MC but a cup or two on regular bases there is no soot at all in your exhaust, because the LRFuel eats carbon like crazy. Even the plugs I ran 53,000 miles where totally carbonless, but totally shot from electrical wear.
But Im much aware of Internet negative cat ,02 and Lead information, But as far as what I use , they know their A$$ from hole, Ive got several hundred thousand miles on the stuff, and pushing 100,000 mile on the VFR alone CAT and 02'd.
But there's no snake oil on the shelve that offeres the benefits of VPc12. But I know alot of people really believe in that greasy Kerosene they call Marvel mistery oil.
Most o2's and cats stop working cause they get plugged up with carbon, thats the real death to those.
On a side note, Nascar band Lead use a couple years ago, they started having alot of engine failures so they allowed it back. I'll put my motor up against anyones with the same milege, and I guarantee mine will be far more pristine in wear and internal cleaniliness from fuel pump to tail pipe.
[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 April 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:
snip
I'll put my motor up against anyones with the same milege, and I guarantee mine will be far more pristine in wear and internal cleaniliness from fuel pump to tail pipe.
:laughing6-hehe: No way, mine's cleaner than yours
All it takes is a flash light in the Tail pipe to prove, post a picture >G
[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 April 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:
All it takes is a flash light in the Tail pipe to prove, post a picture >G
All that will prove is how lean or rich your engine is running. But really, I'm sure your engine is cleaner than any other . . . .
Lead doesn't hurt Cat converters or o2 sensors, huh? I think you are the one who needs better info. What in the world would even possess you to run that gas in your bike, you get it for $2 a gallon or something?
[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 April 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:
Its not the design, its the fuel degrading if not used, if e10 sits. It will turn brown within a month.
It's not the Ethanol that causes this it's the cheap pooly refined fuel they mix it with. My bike sat for 5 months in winter storage and when I drained the tank few weeks ago ( to check the air box for mice) the gas look just the same as it did when I put it in last fall.
Like I said Ethanol is not the evil. It's the cheap low quality fuel they mix with it. This is why people like the AMA and the car compaies are fighting against E15. Because it means cheap dirty fuel on the market plugging up fuel systems and causing millions in warranty work.
spud786
Canook
Yeah Tell my 100,000 mile working Cat and 02 sensors, been using since a vfr Baby
You better find some better info.
I would say VFRCan"s information is quite a bit more researched, accurate and credible than "Yeah Tell my 100,000 mile working Cat and 02 sensors". Maybe you can explain your process in determining that your Cat and sensors are in perfect working condition.
I have owned my $120 Murray lawnmower since 2001 and it has run nothing but E10 fuels since we live in an emissions non-compliance area.
My 2-gallon gas can sometimes goes all winter and into the summer before I add new fuel; my fuel purchase is not necessarily seasonal or annual.
It sits for months. No leaks, no backfires, no issues. I change the oil, I change the spark plug, and every once and a while I change the blade... it just works.
Ethanol may be completely unnecessary in the grand scheme of things, but it isn't necessarily the bad guy, either.
Tamworth
spud786
Canook
Yeah Tell my 100,000 mile working Cat and 02 sensors, been using since a vfr Baby
You better find some better info.
I would say VFRCan"s information is quite a bit more researched, accurate and credible than "Yeah Tell my 100,000 mile working Cat and 02 sensors". Maybe you can explain your process in determining that your Cat and sensors are in perfect working condition.
The ultimate is hooking up an exhaust analyzer, this requires running a few tanks of regular to blow out all residual LD snowflakes. Also damaged 02 senser would cause error codes, and flaky operation.
Its not my place to debate( i dont care really), someone pointing an encyclopedia results with no practical application is meaningless to me Ive read the stuff too, obviously some prefer unproven snake oil products they really cant tell if its doing anything, My results are far from guessing, its been through internal inspection, valves, Plugs , piston, crowns, exhausts ect or 100's of thousands of miles, including oil analysis, LD powder does show up in the oil.
As to those who say e10 is perfect never have any issue, do you know how many different types of pump e10 fuels are in Canada? I can say there are atleast a dosen different formulations of e10 from state to state in the U.S., some of the worst in California and some of the oxegenated in the far North. Point is there are e10's out there some better than others, Personally I just dont want the crap.
One thing often forgotten about with ethanol blended fuel is phase separation. When moisture (usually humidity in the air or condensation on the inner walls of the tank) comes in contact with the fuel, the ethanol absorbs water until it reaches the saturation point at which time it phase separates and comes out of solution. It depends on many variables including relative humidity and temperature, so some users can have no issues while others find water and sludge at the bottom of the tank after sitting over the winter. Users of Stabil and StarTron forestall this process (I'm not sure about Seafoam) and end up keeping the system far freer of any crud. StarTron claims it can rejuvinate fuel, tho the best bet is prevention. For engines run on a regular basis it's rarely an issue. Since my riding is seasonal, I treat any fuel I expect to sit more than 30 days.
Monk, you really opened up a can of worms with this one. It's like an oil thread, only different!
Chuck
Chuckster
Monk, you really opened up a can of worms with this one. It's like an oil thread, only different!
Chuck
But had I not, the worms would have died :laughing6-hehe:
Monk
Chuckster
Monk, you really opened up a can of worms with this one. It's like an oil thread, only different!
Chuck
But had I not, the worms would have died :laughing6-hehe:
Now you're going to start a debate on the effects of ethanol on worms. :lurk:
I flipped the TV on last night and Power Boat TV was on and guess what one of the segments was about?
E10 fuels in boats.
They said any engine or fuel system built since 1995 will run E10 with no problem. Before that if might dry out fuel lines. They killed a bunch of myths as well. Like the one how it will draw water out of the air, which it will not.
One thing they did say is you will need to change you fuel filters more often. Because Ethanol is a solvent aka cleaner. So it cleans the slug and crap from the fuel system. Which could explain why some people see brown exhaust screens, it's the dirt in the fuel system being cleaned out and burnt by the engine. So I guess if your bike doesn't have a fuel filter might be a good idea to add one.
Chuckster
Monk, you really opened up a can of worms with this one. It's like an oil thread, only different!
Chuck
You could say the thread is more refined.
NorthernVFRDave
I flipped the TV on last night and Power Boat TV was on and guess what one of the segments was about?
E10 fuels in boats.
They said any engine or fuel system built since 1995 will run E10 with no problem. Before that if might dry out fuel lines. They killed a bunch of myths as well. Like the one how it will draw water out of the air, which it will not.
One thing they did say is you will need to change you fuel filters more often. Because Ethanol is a solvent aka cleaner. So it cleans the slug and crap from the fuel system. Which could explain why some people see brown exhaust screens, it's the dirt in the fuel system being cleaned out and burnt by the engine. So I guess if your bike doesn't have a fuel filter might be a good idea to add one.
That could explain why my Jeep(94) sounds better using my snakeoil(MMO), where I can't tell the diff' with my bike(08)???
Muff
Chuckster
Monk, you really opened up a can of worms with this one. It's like an oil thread, only different!
Chuck
You could say the thread is more refined.
:tongue: "Refined" For the $$$$ they want you'd think.
NorthernVFRDave
They said any engine or fuel system built since 1995 will run E10 with no problem. Before that if might dry out fuel lines. They killed a bunch of myths as well. Like the one how it will draw water out of the air, which it will not.
So I'm riding the fence since my VFR is a '95 model? But since the same 4th Gen engine was used '94-'97, would that mean mine is okay?
Chuck
Chuckster
So I'm riding the fence since my VFR is a '95 model? But since the same 4th Gen engine was used '94-'97, would that mean mine is okay?
Chuck
Good question as the show was talking about boats, so not sure when the switch was made for bikes.
NorthernVFRDave
One thing they did say is you will need to change you fuel filters more often. Because Ethanol is a solvent aka cleaner. So it cleans the slug and crap from the fuel system. Which could explain why some people see brown exhaust screens, it's the dirt in the fuel system being cleaned out and burnt by the engine. So I guess if your bike doesn't have a fuel filter might be a good idea to add one.
This may be part of the issue right here, if it is cleaning the tank and upper part of the fuel system, then you let the bike sit and fuel evaporates from the bowls, that dirt is now sitting in your jets and bowls.
I have heard this discussion on a couple of sites, and I have no idea what the truth is. I bought my '95 VFR wrecked and sitting for two years in a garage, and when I took the carbs off, they were nasty and completely clogged. But I have a '70 Cutlass that is waiting restoration that has at least 10 year old gas in it and I can put a fresh battery in it and crank it up and it runs and idles fine. I bought my '89 Wagoneer 3 years ago that sat under a pine tree for two years, had it running without a carb rebuild (I have since swapped in a 4 barrel).
I have a gas station a few miles away that sells ethanol free gas, I try to use it in my motorcycles, mowers and chainsaws all the time. About half the time I use it in my Alfas, and on occasion I use it in my old Jeep. It is about 15 cents a gallon more, but I think the fuel mileage makes it about a wash. I do use a little Seafoam in all my small engines and seasonally in my Alfas and motorcycles, I don't worry about it as much in the Jeep because the intake and carb are only a little over a year old.
I think the next discussion should be Zinc in the Oil to protect the valve shim caps. :tongue:
One thing I do know, the gas station down the street as ethonal free racing fuel and it smells good!
Chuckster
So I'm riding the fence since my VFR is a '95 model? But since the same 4th Gen engine was used '94-'97, would that mean mine is okay?
Yes, all Honda motorcycles from >=1990 have no problem using E10.
Same for Triumph and Yamaha, HD: all models after 1980.
Ther is a VFRD member from Brasil (with a VTEC) and Brasil has had >20% percent ethanol for years. I never heard him about ill effects of using high ethanol mix fuel.
For winter storage E10 is better than E5 is it can absorb more water, of course ethanol free is even better but over here not available anymore.
Sorry guys, but the speed channel is at least partly full of shit, ethanol is ABSOLUTELY hygroscopic. Meaning it can and will absorb moisture from the atmosphere.
And most manafacturers stopped using rubbers that get attacked by ethanol long before they actually started putting it in our regular gas. All our soft parts in the fuel system are made of Viton and are impervious to ethanol.
Most of the info out there on Ethanol is bunk speculation from people who do nothing but read other peoples opinions and repeat what they heard. I know of several cars made in the early 90's that have been running E85 on stock fuel systems for years without issue. When you think about it, if they can do it with 85, 10% isn't gonna cause us any problems besides 3-4% power loss.
Small engines can have problems with it because they make 5hp and less, and it gets magnified because they have no mechanism for ignition advance. which a less combustible fuel needs more of than gasoline.
NakedViffer
Sorry guys, but the speed channel is at least partly full of shit, ethanol is ABSOLUTELY hygroscopic. Meaning it can and will absorb moisture from the atmosphere.
Half right, It will absorb water yes. But water it comes in contact with. It will not absorb the moisture right out of the atmosphere, if that was the case, fuel tanks at the gas station would have vacuum sealed with a layer of dried air to keep the fuel from turning in to water.
It will however phase separate, meaning it will bond with water and separate out of the gas sinking to the bottom of your fuel tank. Only need like an ounce of water in 10 gallons of fuel to make it to this and no way to put it back together once it happens. Drain flush repeat if that happens.
You see, the problem is, I KNOW it will absorb water from the air. You aren't sure so you're googling. And now you're making me do work and search for proof, and I'm lazy and don't like to work
http://www.eejitsguides.com/environment/ethanol-fuel.html
Please read the fourth paragraph.
NakedViffer
You see, the problem is, I KNOW it will absorb water from the air. You aren't sure so you're googling. And now you're making me do work and search for proof, and I'm lazy and don't like to work
http://www.eejitsgui...hanol-fuel.html
Please read the fourth paragraph.
HA I out lazied you, got you to look it up so I didn't have too :schla15:
But no its wasn't a Google search I was taking about, it was just on an episode of Power Boat TV, but I can't provide it, as it was a new episode and its not up on their site for online viewing....
But I read your link, and did some other searching, and they all seem to say the same thing, meaning what I saw came from a guy on crack... The only upside they say it takes around 30-90 days of being open to the air before it becomes an issue.
The only reason this thread even exists is that strong agricultural state lobbyists were successful in convincing our pompous and righteous federal government protectors of all mankind and society that ethanol was a good thing to put into gasoline. Key word: lobbyists. It requires more btu's of energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than there are btu's in a gallon of ethanol. That's called bad math and stupid populist government policy.
Given that gasoline does produce more power per gallon, it requires fewer gallons of fuel to travel a given distance thus lowering "pollution" by using less overall fuel than we are using now. That's called correct math.
Any way you put it, gasoline is a better fuel than a mix of ethanol and gasoline. The corn farmers like it but this country's agricultural system has, in truth, been a welfare system for decades. I prefer gasoline because it works better, costs less, and pollutes less compared to ethanol production and use, after all is said and done. It's just simple math.
Bent the last time I checked a U.S fuel map, Iowa the Biggest corn Producer, was running standard fuel no e10, they have their cake and eating it too, they dont want that crap either LOL!
Bent
The only reason this thread even exists is that strong agricultural state lobbyists were successful in convincing our pompous and righteous federal government protectors of all mankind and society that ethanol was a good thing to put into gasoline. Key word: lobbyists. It requires more btu's of energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than there are btu's in a gallon of ethanol. That's called bad math and stupid populist government policy.
Given that gasoline does produce more power per gallon, it requires fewer gallons of fuel to travel a given distance thus lowering "pollution" by using less overall fuel than we are using now. That's called correct math.
Any way you put it, gasoline is a better fuel than a mix of ethanol and gasoline. The corn farmers like it but this country's agricultural system has, in truth, been a welfare system for decades. I prefer gasoline because it works better, costs less, and pollutes less compared to ethanol production and use, after all is said and done. It's just simple math.
Thats mostly true, except for the pollution part, gasoline produces hydrocarbons and NOx gasses when burnt, ethanol produces water vapor and co2. So it doesn't really pollute
Lets not turn this thing(my thread) in to a political thing and get it cancelled........... Thx.
Monk
Lets not turn this thing(my thread) in to a political thing and get it cancelled........... Thx.
Right, we have a FaceBook page for that kind of talk ;)
NakedViffer
Thats mostly true, except for the pollution part, gasoline produces hydrocarbons and NOx gasses when burnt, ethanol produces water vapor and co2. So it doesn't really pollute
Your right the fuel itself does not pollute. But you only get around 35 gallons of Ethanol per acre of corn. How much fuel do you think it takes to grow an acre of corn, harvest it and truck it to refining plant? Than the electricity to break the corn down and turn it in to fuel.
You have to look at the carbon footprint it takes to make the fuel. An electric car produces zero emissions. However the carbon footprint produced during the manufacturing and disposal process of the battery, creates a bigger carbon footprint than what a gas power car of the same size does over the course of its life.
My local BMW motorcycle mechanic showed me an in tank fuel pump he pulled out of a Speed Triple that had been basically eaten away by Ethanol fuel to the point the wiring was bare and ready to cause some KABOOM ! Scared the hell out of me !
End of thread · 50 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 5 Apr 2020