Cam Chain Tensioner, Without Throttle Body Removal

Ok, I am not a writer. I don't have the witty banter abilities of great technical writers who pull you into their project no matter the subject. Instead I am a typical desk jockey who rides VFR and fixes stuff if he can. Before I get into the "easy" way to change the CCT, let me point out that I did not come up with the process on my own. I borrowed bits and pieces from lots of people. The best replacement guide can be found here, CCT change by Rad, where it is done "by the book". In the resulting discussion it was revealed that removing the Throttle Bodies and so forth was a waste of time, as the CCT can be removed without it.

As a second note, I did not change the rear CCT, and I don't imagine I know or could discover any easier way...it seems simple enough already. See the link above to find how to change that CCT if needed.

As a third note (I like notes), I don't believe the CCTs EVER go bad...I think they make noise when the spring loses a bit of tension...more to come on that later (see how I "hook" you...just like the creative writing class said!)

So on to CCT removal and replacement (this order works best I have found)...Anyway, I didn't have music playing, I don't drink beer, and I barely remembered to take pictures....so bear with me. Finding the CCT was the first chore. It is located on the right side, kinda behind and back of the R/R. To find it you need to remove:

Right Fairing

• 8 allen screws
  
• 1 blind rivet
  
• Slider (if applicable)
  

Seat

• Just use the key, and remove
  

Tank

• two 8mm head bolts, use 1/4" driver
  
• Restraint Cable
  
• Two 10mm head bolts at back of tank
  

Air Box Top

• Hose from top
  
• screws around perimeter
  

Air Box Bottom

• Velocity Stacks, Phillips Head Bolts
  
• Sensor connector on bottom
  
• Vacuum line going in front of box
  
• Small connections at the back
  

When moved, the airbox looks like this:

[image: airbox_moved.jpg]

Note the airbox was just rotated away from the CCT. Tank was also rotated the same way and laid across the seat rails. You can see the CCT at the very bottom, just right of center.

Now you are almost there....just need to remove those cooling hoses to make it stupidly easy to reach the CCT. Remove the one pointing out first, and connect a short section(2-3 feet) of 1/4" or similar hose (I didn't measure it, just some I had around, but 1/4" should be about right).

[image: drain_tube_2.jpg]

Route this into a drain pan or later you get this:

[image: opps__piddled.jpg]

next remove the second hose....this is what makes the first connection take a bit of a leak

[image: second_hose_removed.jpg]

not much fluid is lost...a bit more than is pictured here:

[image: antifreeze_from_cct_change.jpg]

Don't leave this for the dog/cats to drink, unless you don't like them much....

Now it's time to remove that CCT! Simply use your 8mm socket on extension, and take the center bolt out:

[image: removing_the_cap.jpg]

This is where the "key" goes in.

[image: insert_lock.jpg]

The keys job is to stop the CCT from extending when you remove it from the engine. Keeping it from extending makes it less likely that you knock a bit off into the motor, and also makes it easier for the CCT to clear the various bits above it. If you are really ambitious you could actually rotate the CCT to shorten it and make it even easier...but that would be over kill. After loosing both mounting bolts, and removing them, the CCT just slides right out:

[image: cct_coming_out.jpg]

Here is where I have to admit I have a problem. I enjoy seeing how things work. I managed to restrain myself from taking apart my new CCT to see how it works, but the old one was just there....so I had to do it. Initially I planned to try the Reddog idea of tightening the spring....but I screwed up my spring after I removed it, so that was nixxed. Here is a nice picture of my CCT doing it's best Humpty Dumpty impression:

[image: cct_falling_to_pieces.jpg]

you can see where the spring is messed up....yours won't look like that (don't take it apart to see tho). Let me describe the parts, so hopefully this makes more sense to those who want to know. Those who don't want to know can skip to anther thread or something...

Clockwise starting from the left you have:

• CCT Gasket
  
• CCT body, with circlip just slid back
  
• key
  
• Sping(in the middle)
  
• bushing/sleeve
  
• Worm Drive
  
• Shaft with puck on end
  

The sleeve/bushing goes around the worm drive, and over the shaft below the locking tab. The locking tab doesn't come off the shaft (without removing far too much).

The way the CCT works is this:

The spring is coiled around the shaft, with one end going into the slot at the bottom of the worm drive, and the other end into a slit at the top of the CCT body. As the worm drive is rotated clockwise, the spring winds up....and if allowed the worm drive will rotate counter clockwise to release tension. The worm drive can only rotate 4 times before the Shaft reaches its stopper. I believe the reason you begin to hear CCT noise is that the spring is able to unwind with a bit of Cam Chain stretch, and thus the spring is not as tight as it was originally. This loosness allows a bit more play that normal, and oscillations begin. Whether different oils help or not I don't even want to discuss.

If you wish to attempt to modify your CCT to save some cash, here is how you do it:

Holding the CCT in such a way that your finger restrains the shaft from advancing, remove the "key". Using a small (probably modified for the purpose) screwdriver, rotate the wormdrive from the access hole clockwise until it stops. Counts the revolutions. It will stop with the shaft all the way compressed. Now reinsert the key, and while still holding the shaft, slide the circlip down so it no longer restrains the locking tab. slide the locking tab carefully up the shaft out of the grooves, noting 2 grooves are wider than the other 2. Then very carefully rotate the shaft counter-clockwise 1-2 times as many revolutions as it took to compress it initially. (this figure is a guess, your results may very, I make no guarantees..written, expressed or otherwise, not available in all locations, subject to rule changes etc). After rotating the shaft counter-clockwise, slide the locking tab back down, and replace the circlip. Re-insert the screwdriver and rotate the gear clockwise to compress the shaft once more. Now you can reinstall the CCT and see if you saved $100.

Reinstalling the CCT is the reverse of removal (I hate it when manuals state that, but it's true. Just check and make sure all connections are replaced or you may not like the results...I didn't.

[image: look_close.jpg]

That is the connector I forgot. The FI light was blinking when I started the bike. I was able to get it back on without removing the air box again using a long thing screwdriver. Speaking of which, here are all the tools I needed to do the job:

[image: every_tool_needed.jpg]

1/4" driver handle

1/4" Rachet

1/4" x3" extension

1/4" x 6" extension

1/4"x1/4" socket for hose clamp

1/4"x8mm socket for CCT bolts and tank bolts

Phillips Screw Driver

3/8" Rachet

3/8"x10mm socket

3/8" x 6" extension

Needed this time, but not always required:

Long Needle Nose pliars

Extra Long thin screwdriver

Telescoping Magnetic pickup tool

Some pictures were not included, you can see them all here:

http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/CCT%20Change/

Ok, I am not a writer. I don't have the witty banter abilities of great technical writers who pull you into their project no matter the subject. Instead I am a typical desk jockey who rides VFR and fixes stuff if he can. Before I get into the "easy" way to change the CCT, let me point out that I did not come up with the process on my own. I borrowed bits and pieces from lots of people. The best replacement guide can be found here, CCT change by Rad, where it is done "by the book". In the resulting discussion it was revealed that removing the Throttle Bodies and so forth was a waste of time, as the CCT can be removed without it.

As a second note, I did not change the rear CCT, and I don't imagine I know or could discover any easier way...it seems simple enough already. See the link above to find how to change that CCT if needed.

As a third note (I like notes), I don't believe the CCTs EVER go bad...I think they make noise when the spring loses a bit of tension...more to come on that later (see how I "hook" you...just like the creative writing class said!)

So on to CCT removal and replacement (this order works best I have found)...Anyway, I didn't have music playing, I don't drink beer, and I barely remembered to take pictures....so bear with me. Finding the CCT was the first chore. It is located on the right side, kinda behind and back of the R/R. To find it you need to remove:

Right Fairing

• 8 allen screws
  
• 1 blind rivet
  
• Slider (if applicable)
  

Seat

• Just use the key, and remove
  

Tank

• two 8mm head bolts, use 1/4" driver
  
• Restraint Cable
  
• Two 10mm head bolts at back of tank
  

Air Box Top

• Hose from top
  
• screws around perimeter
  

Air Box Bottom

• Velocity Stacks, Phillips Head Bolts
  
• Sensor connector on bottom
  
• Vacuum line going in front of box
  
• Small connections at the back
  

When moved, the airbox looks like this:

[image: airbox_moved.jpg]

Note the airbox was just rotated away from the CCT. Tank was also rotated the same way and laid across the seat rails. You can see the CCT at the very bottom, just right of center.

Now you are almost there....just need to remove those cooling hoses to make it stupidly easy to reach the CCT. Remove the one pointing out first, and connect a short section(2-3 feet) of 1/4" or similar hose (I didn't measure it, just some I had around, but 1/4" should be about right).

[image: drain_tube_2.jpg]

Route this into a drain pan or later you get this:

[image: opps__piddled.jpg]

next remove the second hose....this is what makes the first connection take a bit of a leak

[image: second_hose_removed.jpg]

not much fluid is lost...a bit more than is pictured here:

[image: antifreeze_from_cct_change.jpg]

Don't leave this for the dog/cats to drink, unless you don't like them much....

Now it's time to remove that CCT! Simply use your 8mm socket on extension, and take the center bolt out:

[image: removing_the_cap.jpg]

This is where the "key" goes in.

[image: insert_lock.jpg]

The keys job is to stop the CCT from extending when you remove it from the engine. Keeping it from extending makes it less likely that you knock a bit off into the motor, and also makes it easier for the CCT to clear the various bits above it. If you are really ambitious you could actually rotate the CCT to shorten it and make it even easier...but that would be over kill. After loosing both mounting bolts, and removing them, the CCT just slides right out:

[image: cct_coming_out.jpg]

Here is where I have to admit I have a problem. I enjoy seeing how things work. I managed to restrain myself from taking apart my new CCT to see how it works, but the old one was just there....so I had to do it. Initially I planned to try the Reddog idea of tightening the spring....but I screwed up my spring after I removed it, so that was nixxed. Here is a nice picture of my CCT doing it's best Humpty Dumpty impression:

[image: cct_falling_to_pieces.jpg]

you can see where the spring is messed up....yours won't look like that (don't take it apart to see tho). Let me describe the parts, so hopefully this makes more sense to those who want to know. Those who don't want to know can skip to anther thread or something...

Clockwise starting from the left you have:

• CCT Gasket
  
• CCT body, with circlip just slid back
  
• key
  
• Sping(in the middle)
  
• bushing/sleeve
  
• Worm Drive
  
• Shaft with puck on end
  

The sleeve/bushing goes around the worm drive, and over the shaft below the locking tab. The locking tab doesn't come off the shaft (without removing far too much).

The way the CCT works is this:

The spring is coiled around the shaft, with one end going into the slot at the bottom of the worm drive, and the other end into a slit at the top of the CCT body. As the worm drive is rotated clockwise, the spring winds up....and if allowed the worm drive will rotate counter clockwise to release tension. The worm drive can only rotate 4 times before the Shaft reaches its stopper. I believe the reason you begin to hear CCT noise is that the spring is able to unwind with a bit of Cam Chain stretch, and thus the spring is not as tight as it was originally. This loosness allows a bit more play that normal, and oscillations begin. Whether different oils help or not I don't even want to discuss.

If you wish to attempt to modify your CCT to save some cash, here is how you do it:

Holding the CCT in such a way that your finger restrains the shaft from advancing, remove the "key". Using a small (probably modified for the purpose) screwdriver, rotate the wormdrive from the access hole clockwise until it stops. Counts the revolutions. It will stop with the shaft all the way compressed. Now reinsert the key, and while still holding the shaft, slide the circlip down so it no longer restrains the locking tab. slide the locking tab carefully up the shaft out of the grooves, noting 2 grooves are wider than the other 2. Then very carefully rotate the shaft counter-clockwise 1-2 times as many revolutions as it took to compress it initially. (this figure is a guess, your results may very, I make no guarantees..written, expressed or otherwise, not available in all locations, subject to rule changes etc). After rotating the shaft counter-clockwise, slide the locking tab back down, and replace the circlip. Re-insert the screwdriver and rotate the gear clockwise to compress the shaft once more. Now you can reinstall the CCT and see if you saved $100.

Reinstalling the CCT is the reverse of removal (I hate it when manuals state that, but it's true. Just check and make sure all connections are replaced or you may not like the results...I didn't.

[image: look_close.jpg]

That is the connector I forgot. The FI light was blinking when I started the bike. I was able to get it back on without removing the air box again using a long thing screwdriver. Speaking of which, here are all the tools I needed to do the job:

[image: every_tool_needed.jpg]

1/4" driver handle

1/4" Rachet

1/4" x3" extension

1/4" x 6" extension

1/4"x1/4" socket for hose clamp

1/4"x8mm socket for CCT bolts and tank bolts

Phillips Screw Driver

3/8" Rachet

3/8"x10mm socket

3/8" x 6" extension

Needed this time, but not always required:

Long Needle Nose pliars

Extra Long thin screwdriver

Telescoping Magnetic pickup tool

Some pictures were not included, you can see them all here:

http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/CCT%20Change/

Thanks so very much for putting together this handy guide. I am a procrastinator...I have the new CCT, all tools, and a shop manual but always find something else to do besides taking apart my Honda. Your pics make it simple and are a huge help in motivating me to change this out. I really appreciate the time you spent in doing the write up and taking the great photos. You are a big help to all the VFRD people here. The part # on my CCT is 14520-MCW-013 (I think its an updated one? dunno) , what was your CCT part #?

Again, BIG THANKS !!! for this info ...is very helpful...Doug :biggrin:

(Also looking for an extra CCT KEY if anyone has one they can post me? thanks)

Great write up......thanks Tightwad. I may be doing this one before the TexasMac meet as mine is getting a bit noisy.

Slammer............think you could save this one in the "how to" section??

This has got to be the best motorcycle website on the planet, and that is because of it's CEO, moderators and members. :biggrin:

DougFromIndyThanks so very much for putting together this handy guide. I am a procrastinator...I have the new CCT, all tools, and a shop manual but always find something else to do besides taking apart my Honda. Your pics make it simple and are a huge help in motivating me to change this out. I really appreciate the time you spent in doing the write up and taking the great photos. You are a big help to all the VFRD people here. The part # on my CCT is 14520-MCW-013 (I think its an updated one? dunno) , what was your CCT part #?

Again, BIG THANKS !!! for this info ...is very helpful...Doug :biggrin:

(Also looking for an extra CCT KEY if anyone has one they can post me? thanks)

I made an extra "key" out of a small piece of sheetmetal (part of an old CPU power supply actually). I found that when turning the worm drive it would bend this piece...you can see in the picture of the CCT disassembled that it is twisted. I then used the small flatblade screwdriver that I ground the sides down and it worked much better.

I think you have the right CCT part #, I don't have my other in front of me....there is only one choice available now I think.

Well done TW :biggrin:

I have a feeling that replacing the front CCT on my VFR will be an every 20K-30K mile project; I will try your way next time for the front one.

What a terrific post, I'm sure the dealers will hate you for showing how easy this job can be done, they will charge the earth for doing the same, this is better than looking in the manual. Thanks for sharing this with us and taking the trouble to do it all.

Safe riding Plasma

Nicely done Tw,

I replaced my CTT's years ago using mostly the same method, but I didn't remove anything but the air box for the front one. That little coolant hose makes it a tight space, but I worked around it no problem. All that's needed is patients and some dexterity and it comes right out! :biggrin:

That first time was at 32k miles and with my bike showing 66k miles now I expect to start hearing some noise sometime soon. The rear never seems to go out like the front, maybe because it's on the downhill side of the rear head and always bathed in oil unlike the front CTT. :laugh: I replaced them both anyway.

Yeah, Josh, great thread mate!! But I can't see Flat Stanley in the photos!! Hehehe.

It's good to read this thread, my 2003 VTECker has some 60,000 km on the clock and I'm only just starting to hear the odd CCT noise on letting off the throttle after giving it lots of gas... "blipping the throttle" so to speak. I know the sound oh too well from an old 1971 Toyota Hiace I had way back when... must've changed the CCT 3 times... in one year.

BaileyrockNicely done Tw,

I replaced my CTT's years ago using mostly the same method, but I didn't remove anything but the air box for the front one. That little coolant hose makes it a tight space, but I worked around it no problem. All that's needed is patients and some dexterity and it comes right out! :wheel:

That first time was at 32k miles and with my bike showing 66k miles now I expect to start hearing some noise sometime soon. The rear never seems to go out like the front, maybe because it's on the downhill side of the rear head and always bathed in oil unlike the front CTT. :huh: I replaced them both anyway.

Removing that hose (if equipped with a drain hose in hand) takes about 1 minute, and saves a ton of headaches...I would suggest removing them both, but natually there is more than one way to skin a cat (I prefer Duct Tape and Gasoline....)

I bought both, but the rear is quiet so I saved that one for future install...although next time I am going to try increasing the tension by 1-2 turns to see what it does. Now that I know the process is a 1 hour job at best, it isn't so daunting to put the old part back in.

AuspañolYeah, Josh, great thread mate!! But I can't see Flat Stanley in the photos!! Hehehe.

It's good to read this thread, my 2003 VTECker has some 60,000 km on the clock and I'm only just starting to hear the odd CCT noise on letting off the throttle after giving it lots of gas... "blipping the throttle" so to speak. I know the sound oh too well from an old 1971 Toyota Hiace I had way back when... must've changed the CCT 3 times... in one year.

Flat Stanley was there in spirit. It would have been funny to include him in the job, maybe next time. Let me know if Honda Spain is insane on the CCT prices and if so I can ship you the second one I bought if you want a new one. Cost here wasn't too bad...$115 or so for both of them and all the parts needed.

Thanks for a super post, tw. I just finished changing my oil, cleaning and re-oiling the K & N, flushing and filling the coolant, and swapping rubber on both tires for fresh skins last week while on vacation. I figure in the labor alone that probably saved about $5-600 over having it done by my local stealership. And, thanks to tutorials like this, I know it was done right. Not having access to Honda labor guides, I would hazard a wild guess that the flat rate procedure for replacing both of the CCT's is in the vicinity of 5.0 hours. At the local dealer's rate of $130.00/hr that's $650.00 saved in labor alone, a useful chunk of change to keep in your pocket. Er, you guys are going to make a mechanic out of me yet!

I had both of my replaced last year under extended warranty while he was adjusting the valves and the guy said they didn't need to remove the throttle bodies either but since the manual calls for it and honda was footing the bill I think he should of. now will I need to have some "pair?" or starter? valves synced during a tune-up?

Great write up. It seems so easy. Good job.

As a crafty technician it is in my best intrest and the customers to find easier ways to do things. It is not cheating a customer because a technician is bright. If technicians follow the book on every job we would make about $3 a year. Why disturb the throttle bodies if you dont have to?

soichiroGreat write up. It seems so easy. Good job.

As a crafty technician it is in my best intrest and the customers to find easier ways to do things. It is not cheating a customer because a technician is bright. If technicians follow the book on every job we would make about $3 a year. Why disturb the throttle bodies if you dont have to?

I agree, there is no sense removing a TB, and potentially disturbing another setting such a cable tension, Starter Valve, etc just because the "book" says to go that route. Now if they are not changing gaskets or replacing wearable parts that should be changed, and saying they are, that is a different story.

tightwad, nice write-up. :fing02:

By any chance, has anyone ever measured the distance from the head of the shaft to the flat machined surface of the CCT body? I'm wondering if there is a difference between a new one and one that is bad.

RustyAtightwad, nice write-up. :fing02:

By any chance, has anyone ever measured the distance from the head of the shaft to the flat machined surface of the CCT body? I'm wondering if there is a difference between a new one and one that is bad.

At what point, extended or compressed? The shaft extends quite far. I am betting the different part number has to do with a different manufacturing area or something. They appears identical to me.

[image: cct_falling_to_pieces.jpg]

Ok, I am not a writer. I don't have the witty banter abilities of great technical writers who pull you into their project no matter the subject. Instead I am a typical desk jockey who rides VFR and fixes stuff if he can. Before I get into the "easy" way to change the CCT, let me point out that I did not come up with the process on my own. I borrowed bits and pieces from lots of people. The best replacement guide can be found here, CCT change by Rad, where it is done "by the book". In the resulting discussion it was revealed that removing the Throttle Bodies and so forth was a waste of time, as the CCT can be removed without it.

As a second note, I did not change the rear CCT, and I don't imagine I know or could discover any easier way...it seems simple enough already. See the link above to find how to change that CCT if needed.

As a third note (I like notes), I don't believe the CCTs EVER go bad...I think they make noise when the spring loses a bit of tension...more to come on that later (see how I "hook" you...just like the creative writing class said!)

So on to CCT removal and replacement (this order works best I have found)...Anyway, I didn't have music playing, I don't drink beer, and I barely remembered to take pictures....so bear with me. Finding the CCT was the first chore. It is located on the right side, kinda behind and back of the R/R. To find it you need to remove:

Right Fairing

• 8 allen screws
  
• 1 blind rivet
  
• Slider (if applicable)
  

Seat

• Just use the key, and remove
  

Tank

• two 8mm head bolts, use 1/4" driver
  
• Restraint Cable
  
• Two 10mm head bolts at back of tank
  

Air Box Top

• Hose from top
  
• screws around perimeter
  

Air Box Bottom

• Velocity Stacks, Phillips Head Bolts
  
• Sensor connector on bottom
  
• Vacuum line going in front of box
  
• Small connections at the back
  

When moved, the airbox looks like this:

[image: airbox_moved.jpg]

Note the airbox was just rotated away from the CCT. Tank was also rotated the same way and laid across the seat rails. You can see the CCT at the very bottom, just right of center.

Now you are almost there....just need to remove those cooling hoses to make it stupidly easy to reach the CCT. Remove the one pointing out first, and connect a short section(2-3 feet) of 1/4" or similar hose (I didn't measure it, just some I had around, but 1/4" should be about right).

[image: drain_tube_2.jpg]

Route this into a drain pan or later you get this:

[image: opps__piddled.jpg]

next remove the second hose....this is what makes the first connection take a bit of a leak

[image: second_hose_removed.jpg]

not much fluid is lost...a bit more than is pictured here:

[image: antifreeze_from_cct_change.jpg]

Don't leave this for the dog/cats to drink, unless you don't like them much....

Now it's time to remove that CCT! Simply use your 8mm socket on extension, and take the center bolt out:

[image: removing_the_cap.jpg]

This is where the "key" goes in.

[image: insert_lock.jpg]

The keys job is to stop the CCT from extending when you remove it from the engine. Keeping it from extending makes it less likely that you knock a bit off into the motor, and also makes it easier for the CCT to clear the various bits above it. If you are really ambitious you could actually rotate the CCT to shorten it and make it even easier...but that would be over kill. After loosing both mounting bolts, and removing them, the CCT just slides right out:

[image: cct_coming_out.jpg]

Here is where I have to admit I have a problem. I enjoy seeing how things work. I managed to restrain myself from taking apart my new CCT to see how it works, but the old one was just there....so I had to do it. Initially I planned to try the Reddog idea of tightening the spring....but I screwed up my spring after I removed it, so that was nixxed. Here is a nice picture of my CCT doing it's best Humpty Dumpty impression:

[image: cct_falling_to_pieces.jpg]

you can see where the spring is messed up....yours won't look like that (don't take it apart to see tho). Let me describe the parts, so hopefully this makes more sense to those who want to know. Those who don't want to know can skip to anther thread or something...

Clockwise starting from the left you have:

• CCT Gasket
  
• CCT body, with circlip just slid back
  
• key
  
• Sping(in the middle)
  
• bushing/sleeve
  
• Worm Drive
  
• Shaft with puck on end
  

The sleeve/bushing goes around the worm drive, and over the shaft below the locking tab. The locking tab doesn't come off the shaft (without removing far too much).

The way the CCT works is this:

The spring is coiled around the shaft, with one end going into the slot at the bottom of the worm drive, and the other end into a slit at the top of the CCT body. As the worm drive is rotated clockwise, the spring winds up....and if allowed the worm drive will rotate counter clockwise to release tension. The worm drive can only rotate 4 times before the Shaft reaches its stopper. I believe the reason you begin to hear CCT noise is that the spring is able to unwind with a bit of Cam Chain stretch, and thus the spring is not as tight as it was originally. This loosness allows a bit more play that normal, and oscillations begin. Whether different oils help or not I don't even want to discuss.

If you wish to attempt to modify your CCT to save some cash, here is how you do it:

Holding the CCT in such a way that your finger restrains the shaft from advancing, remove the "key". Using a small (probably modified for the purpose) screwdriver, rotate the wormdrive from the access hole clockwise until it stops. Counts the revolutions. It will stop with the shaft all the way compressed. Now reinsert the key, and while still holding the shaft, slide the circlip down so it no longer restrains the locking tab. slide the locking tab carefully up the shaft out of the grooves, noting 2 grooves are wider than the other 2. Then very carefully rotate the shaft counter-clockwise 1-2 times as many revolutions as it took to compress it initially. (this figure is a guess, your results may very, I make no guarantees..written, expressed or otherwise, not available in all locations, subject to rule changes etc). After rotating the shaft counter-clockwise, slide the locking tab back down, and replace the circlip. Re-insert the screwdriver and rotate the gear clockwise to compress the shaft once more. Now you can reinstall the CCT and see if you saved $100.

Reinstalling the CCT is the reverse of removal (I hate it when manuals state that, but it's true. Just check and make sure all connections are replaced or you may not like the results...I didn't.

[image: look_close.jpg]

That is the connector I forgot. The FI light was blinking when I started the bike. I was able to get it back on without removing the air box again using a long thing screwdriver. Speaking of which, here are all the tools I needed to do the job:

[image: every_tool_needed.jpg]

1/4" driver handle

1/4" Rachet

1/4" x3" extension

1/4" x 6" extension

1/4"x1/4" socket for hose clamp

1/4"x8mm socket for CCT bolts and tank bolts

Phillips Screw Driver

3/8" Rachet

3/8"x10mm socket

3/8" x 6" extension

Needed this time, but not always required:

Long Needle Nose pliars

Extra Long thin screwdriver

Telescoping Magnetic pickup tool

Some pictures were not included, you can see them all here:

http://www.wiremybike.com/Slideshows/CCT%20Change/

just bumping this because Didit needed it in another thread....

Thanks Joshua, saved me the trouble of looking for it. I plan on changing mine this weekend.

Tightwad

BaileyrockNicely done Tw,

I replaced my CTT's years ago using mostly the same method, but I didn't remove anything but the air box for the front one. That little coolant hose makes it a tight space, but I worked around it no problem. All that's needed is patients and some dexterity and it comes right out! :blush:

That first time was at 32k miles and with my bike showing 66k miles now I expect to start hearing some noise sometime soon. The rear never seems to go out like the front, maybe because it's on the downhill side of the rear head and always bathed in oil unlike the front CTT. :huh: I replaced them both anyway.

Removing that hose (if equipped with a drain hose in hand) takes about 1 minute, and saves a ton of headaches...I would suggest removing them both, but natually there is more than one way to skin a cat (I prefer Duct Tape and Gasoline....)

I bought both, but the rear is quiet so I saved that one for future install...although next time I am going to try increasing the tension by 1-2 turns to see what it does. Now that I know the process is a 1 hour job at best, it isn't so daunting to put the old part back in.

Good post, TW.

Just to add a little tidbit from personal experience.

If you do nothing else right, these three things MUST be done.

1 - Don't be a lazy bestid and remove that hose.

2 - The CCT CAN be removed w/o the little key. BUT Don't be a lazy bestid and use the key

3 - You could tighten the two CCT bolts by hand, BUT Don't be a lazy bestid and use the torque wrench.

Following these simple instructions will prevent a lot of gray hairs and you wouldn't have to post topics titled "Oooopppsss!!!"

Ask me how I know :blush: :dry: :rolleyes: :ph34r:

Rice

Tightwad

BaileyrockNicely done Tw,

I replaced my CTT's years ago using mostly the same method, but I didn't remove anything but the air box for the front one. That little coolant hose makes it a tight space, but I worked around it no problem. All that's needed is patients and some dexterity and it comes right out! :blush:

That first time was at 32k miles and with my bike showing 66k miles now I expect to start hearing some noise sometime soon. The rear never seems to go out like the front, maybe because it's on the downhill side of the rear head and always bathed in oil unlike the front CTT. :huh: I replaced them both anyway.

Removing that hose (if equipped with a drain hose in hand) takes about 1 minute, and saves a ton of headaches...I would suggest removing them both, but natually there is more than one way to skin a cat (I prefer Duct Tape and Gasoline....)

I bought both, but the rear is quiet so I saved that one for future install...although next time I am going to try increasing the tension by 1-2 turns to see what it does. Now that I know the process is a 1 hour job at best, it isn't so daunting to put the old part back in.

Good post, TW.

Just to add a little tidbit from personal experience.

If you do nothing else right, these three things MUST be done.

1 - Don't be a lazy bestid and remove that hose.

2 - The CCT CAN be removed w/o the little key. BUT Don't be a lazy bestid and use the key

3 - You could tighten the two CCT bolts by hand, BUT Don't be a lazy bestid and use the torque wrench.

Following these simple instructions will prevent a lot of gray hairs and you wouldn't have to post topics titled "Oooopppsss!!!"

Ask me how I know :blush: :dry: :rolleyes: :ph34r:

I recall having read your thread prior to doing mine...which is why I was so careful about what was in the way. The worst part of the whole thing was when that hose started draining on me, and I was scrambling to find something for it to drain into while elbow deep in the bike.

I did mine just before the Summer Summit, the hardest part for me was getting that little flat black metal cover plate out on the rear bank, you have to wiggle it just right.

I paid about $55 each for the CMTs and I didn't have to remove the throttle bodies and only removed one hose on the front one. Take time to secure your tank on your seat so it doesn't fall off. Use the keys to take up the length of the new ones and old ones as this makes removal and installation much easier. I used pair of needle nosed vice grips to twist the key but they are light metal and bend easy. Really it was way easier than I thought.

The good: Just did my front CCT in about two hours including bs'ing with a friend during that period. Tank, air-box, disconnect wire harness, pull upper hose that has the squeeze clamp, and bend the other hose out of the way. Old one came right out and new one went right back in. The hardest part was getting the air-box hooked back up.

The bad: The constant noise is mostly gone but I can still hear an intermittent rattle/tick/noise so either my back one is bad too or something else is amiss.

The bad: The constant noise is mostly gone but I can still hear an intermittent rattle/tick/noise so either my back one is bad too or something else is amiss.

Its hit or miss to get a tentioner that doesnt rattle , just look at those who've replaced them multiple times even at best they dont rattle for a while , being you did get change on the issue , says you replaced the right part.

You probably seen my mention on the issue with oil type that corrected my noise and it was loud& Kronic , but I recently noticed The oil hole through the gasket can barely fit a needle through, I wonder if increasing that hole would free the oil flow alittle and aide with the body rattle, so people can use what ever oil they want and be noise free.

Yes, quite true. Of course if I hadn't been so cavalier about taking about my new CCT I could have figured it out. D'oh!
There has to be a way to find out what that tension should be right? I mean a dealership would need to know that if they were trying to repair a CCT. Then again maybe they would just replace it and stick you with the bill.

Well, if anyone knows then it's the perfect way to fix a noisy CCT with $0 spent!

Of course, there are two CCTs and I haven't messed with the other one.

I'll have to update once I do that.

BTW, where do you get the key?

I am replacing my CCTs this weekend, and am confused as to how to use the key. Do you just slide it in to lock the tensioner, or do you have to twist it to retract the tensioner ? These step by step guides are great !

BTW, where do you get the key?

New CCT's come with a new but very small key. Otherwise, you can fabricate your own per dimensions listed in the service manual.

[image: Posted Image]

I am replacing my CCTs this weekend, and am confused as to how to use the key. Do you just slide it in to lock the tensioner, or do you have to twist it to retract the tensioner ? These step by step guides are great !

I am replacing my CCTs this weekend, and am confused as to how to use the key. Do you just slide it in to lock the tensioner, or do you have to twist it to retract the tensioner ? These step by step guides are great !

Great thread! Thank you for taking the time to take such clear pics and posting it!

It's good to read this thread, my 2003 VTECker has some 60,000 km on the clock and I'm only just starting to hear the odd CCT noise on letting off the throttle after giving it lots of gas... "blipping the throttle" so to speak. I know the sound oh too well from an old 1971 Toyota Hiace I had way back when... must've changed the CCT 3 times... in one year.

If you're needing to replace the CCTs 3 times a year, wouldn't that mean that something else is amiss (loose chain?) and you would have to fix that? 

I've been told that I need to replace my CCTs but also more likely, need to replace the chains (front and back to be sure). Apart from giving the CCTs a go, is there any other test I could do to see whether its just the CCTs that are worn, or the chains are dodgey too?

The more you ride with dodgey CCTs, are you more likely to ruin/stretch the chains? Or is it just the fear of the chains skipping a tooth and stuffing up your engine the main worry? 

(Sorry for all the questions! I'm very n00bish and trying to get my head around this before I fork out big bucks to get it fixed). 

Great thread! Thank you for taking the time to take such clear pics and posting it!

It's good to read this thread, my 2003 VTECker has some 60,000 km on the clock and I'm only just starting to hear the odd CCT noise on letting off the throttle after giving it lots of gas... "blipping the throttle" so to speak. I know the sound oh too well from an old 1971 Toyota Hiace I had way back when... must've changed the CCT 3 times... in one year.

 
If you're needing to replace the CCTs 3 times a year, wouldn't that mean that something else is amiss (loose chain?) and you would have to fix that? 
 
 
I've been told that I need to replace my CCTs but also more likely, need to replace the chains (front and back to be sure). Apart from giving the CCTs a go, is there any other test I could do to see whether its just the CCTs that are worn, or the chains are dodgey too?
 
The more you ride with dodgey CCTs, are you more likely to ruin/stretch the chains? Or is it just the fear of the chains skipping a tooth and stuffing up your engine the main worry? 
 
(Sorry for all the questions! I'm very n00bish and trying to get my head around this before I fork out big bucks to get it fixed).

The honda ccts are just a pore excuse for not a precision made item, the plunger fits loosley in the body, they can rattle brand new or down the road. Its nothing to do with the chain, its the cct plunger in its body that rattles. Some may think its the chain buts its not.

Hey guys and gals im new to the site and have a bit of a prob with my cam chain tensioner  problem is ITS NOT THERE well not as shown in the pics anyone know where else it could be or what else i can do to get that nasty rattle out of my bike i have pulled throttle body off and everything and nothing had a friend come over and he cant figure it out either

Here is a pic i took of my bike with air breather and bits removed

Attached Images

• [image: 185.jpg]

Hey guys and gals im new to the site and have a bit of a prob with my cam chain tensioner  problem is ITS NOT THERE well not as shown in the pics anyone know where else it could be or what else i can do to get that nasty rattle out of my bike i have pulled throttle body off and everything and nothing had a friend come over and he cant figure it out either

Here is a pic i took of my bike with air breather and bits removed

Looks like your working on a 5th gen VFR 98-01 which Don't have CCT's and Not the 6th gen (Vtec) 02-09 .

What year is your bike?

BR

for some unknown reason i cant upload the video it wont let me says i dont have permission but tried pulling the clutch and still knocking best i can describe it is that it sounds like its coming from the back exaust under the cover could it be a valve??????

for some unknown reason i cant upload the video it wont let me says i dont have permission but tried pulling the clutch and still knocking best i can describe it is that it sounds like its coming from the back exaust under the cover could it be a valve??????

That's strange.... Any loss in power from previous the knock??......I would think a valve problem would exhibit such....

I doubt if it has anything to do with the gear drive on the cams as there is really nothing to break there and cause the knocking, plus any bit of gear lash at the cam gears is usually handled by the split gear system that Honda designed for them that's also designed to reduce (but does not eliminate) the whining noise from the straight cut cam gears....

About to do mine, I have a rattle and 95000km on an '02. Let you know the outcome

[image: 1557723_10153774270265125_1779516776_n_z]

I replaced the rear CCT this morning, no issues. Started the bike, the previous noise was gone, a problem solved ... so I thought! 

However, as I had bought the pair of CCTs I went on to do the rear for a full belt and braces approach, cue a bit of a disaster. On inserting the new CCT I had a small alignment issue due to restricted space, on slightly withdrawing the CCT to realign it I accidentally knocked off the new metal cap, which has fallen loose into the bowels of my engine. 

After much cursing I spent a good hour trying to get a magnet on a telescopic stick in there, alas the one I have it a little to big for the aperture. I've got a much smaller, more flexible one on order from Amazon, hopefully this will allow me to retrieve the cap.  Failing that, I guess its a engine out job? I feel so stupid, I'm normally pretty competent with home repairs but was struggling a little with the limited space down there next to the frame rails, a moment of not paying precise attention may end up costing me dear!  :sad:    

I have never understood why the damn cap has to be so loose-fitting.

Chin up and try a supermagent on a string or thin wire.

Maybe removing the sump would suffice instead of entire engine out.

I replaced the rear CCT this morning, no issues. Started the bike, the previous noise was gone, a problem solved ... so I thought! 
 
However, as I had bought the pair of CCTs I went on to do the rear for a full belt and braces approach, cue a bit of a disaster. On inserting the new CCT I had a small alignment issue due to restricted space, on slightly withdrawing the CCT to realign it I accidentally knocked off the new metal cap, which has fallen loose into the bowels of my engine. 
 
After much cursing I spent a good hour trying to get a magnet on a telescopic stick in there, alas the one I have it a little to big for the aperture. I've got a much smaller, more flexible one on order from Amazon, hopefully this will allow me to retrieve the cap.  Failing that, I guess its a engine out job? I feel so stupid, I'm normally pretty competent with home repairs but was struggling a little with the limited space down there next to the frame rails, a moment of not paying precise attention may end up costing me dear!  :sad:    

You might try some real Heavy weed wacker plastic string, and cut off a telescopic magnet (about 1 inch long) and duct tape it to the string.   Im not sure if the rear cap has a safe zone hiding place like the front , if it falls off.

About to do mine, I have a rattle and 95000km on an '02. Let you know the outcome

[image: 1557723_10153774270265125_1779516776_n_z]

I  know  it's  Monday mourning  quart backing  BUT  I  would  crimp it  some  how  .

I  would  try  notching  the  metal  cap   and  then  crimp  the  notch  into  the  plastic  . 

If  you  retrieve  it    !!!!!

You could just squeeze the sides of the metal cap, it will fit tighter that way. Recently I ran without a cap for a few thousand miles, this pressure on the rubber tip evidently expanded it slightly, the cap I installed, fit really nice, and fairly tight, tighter than Id ever seen one fit, which is normaly just snug enough not to fall off if you turn it upside down.

With about 90 minutes poking about with a 4mm magnet on a wire I eventually managed to retrieve the cap - hardest bit was getting it properly aligned inside the engine case to withdraw out cleanly - relived doesn't cover it! Just off to attempt re-fit #2 now!  :fing02:

Congratulations on your success!!!    I can appreciate that feeling

Did you hit the cap fairly easily, the hard part just getting it out?

With about 90 minutes poking about with a 4mm magnet on a wire I eventually managed to retrieve the cap - hardest bit was getting it properly aligned inside the engine case to withdraw out cleanly - relived doesn't cover it! Just off to attempt re-fit #2 now!  :fing02:

Welcome PurpleTurtle   and   the  wire  and magnet  deal  was what  I  suggested  for  Spud  but  he  got  it  out  another  way.  I  think. 

Nope, I never found what I was looking for, it sounds like he used a worm, which is a copper wire with a 4mm magnet. I couldn't find anything with it though. Course mine was a front one missing, Im not sure if the rear one has  a safe zone for the cap to hide, so glad he found it.

Can someone mebay explain to me  what is actually goes failure in a CCT.
The mechanical consturctie is not so complex, I think. Of course one says wear, but then what?
I do not understand a f***! And my VTEC ratlles like hell

[image: 072413top-i.jpg]

Does  this  help  ..

Can someone mebay explain to me  what is actually goes failure in a CCT.
The mechanical consturctie is not so complex, I think. Of course one says wear, but then what?
I do not understand a f***! And my VTEC ratlles like hell

I think the spring just gets weak a can't push as hard as need be.... Swapped mine today, and feeling new with old and that's what it seemed like to me..

And I think its just the top one that was causing noise... It seemed to be extended almost fully, and the lower rear doesn't seem to be out that much at all. So that might go along with the weak spring deal on the one..

I allready orded 2 new CCTs.

Got  two  on  order   also   ...

I have the answer to VFRQQQs question (and mine)... as to how much preload the spring gets out of the factory...

The official Honda answer is "NONE"... this means that the 4 turns required to retract the pusher piston all the way in ONCE is how the CCT comes OEM, either on the bike or out of the box...

Once placed in the motor and the key removes it extends all it can up against the guide...

So you guessed rather well there... giving it one full turn more is not going too far... I gave it 2 full turns more... I don't think that's overdoing it either... it's a very flimsy spring, so I doubt 50% more will cause premature wear anywhere...

It was Honda Montesa the Official Honda Distributor in Spain who answered my quiery.

This time thanks are in order... but they should get their act together with the recalls... :angry:

[image: hondaseguridad.png]

That post is most helpful, Auspanol - thanks for getting us an answer! :)

Forgive the perhaps already answered / obvious / dumb question (my eyes are exhausted of reading pages and pages of threads on this topic...and searching and searching), but will someone please "dumb this down" for me, and/or re-state the PURPOSE for "fixing" the cam chain tensioner's "lack of tension"; i.e. tightening it up or replacing it?

I've had a 4th and 5th gen before (gear-driven cams, so no problem), and one previous 6th gen (but only put 5,000 miles on it, and it was a young bike...) and my current 6th gen has 52k miles on it, but only the last 10k miles are mine - so this is my first time "dealing" with this CCT "issue". If / when it gets "too loose", especially (or primarily) the front CCT, will something CATASTROPHIC happen, or just make more and more and more noise?

I saw Switchblade's cut-away engine image, and from a cursory glance and general understanding of engines, suspect there's a possibility that if/when the tensioner gets too loose, the chain could slap around enough in there to actually SNAP / break, but is this a REAL fear, or will an out-of-spec cam chain just make more noise? I mean, I'm not saying mechanical clunking sounds anywhere on a bike, let alone inside the engine, should be ignored, ever, but how bad can it really get? Switchblade's cut-away image:

[image: 072413top-i.jpg]

Sooo, why do so few people mention the MANUAL CCT (Cam Chain Tensioner) option? Is this a bad idea? Is it a GENIUS idea, but has just only been an option as of late? What am I missing? I could just do the "adjustment fix" of the original CCT(s) in my bike now, in lieu of buying new OEM ones, but is this manual CCT a viable third option? http://www.ebay.com/itm/360837192431

[image: VFR%20manual%20cam%20chain%20tensioner.j]

About  two  hours  had  both  of  mine  changed,  not  bad .  The  front  CCT  was definitely    the  one  pecking .  After  removal  when  compared  to  the new CCT the  spring  was  gone   ..

blainerides

Auspañol

I have the answer to VFRQQQs question (and mine)... as to how much preload the spring gets out of the factory...

The official Honda answer is "NONE"... this means that the 4 turns required to retract the pusher piston all the way in ONCE is how the CCT comes OEM, either on the bike or out of the box...

Once placed in the motor and the key removes it extends all it can up against the guide...

So you guessed rather well there... giving it one full turn more is not going too far... I gave it 2 full turns more... I don't think that's overdoing it either... it's a very flimsy spring, so I doubt 50% more will cause premature wear anywhere...

It was Honda Montesa the Official Honda Distributor in Spain who answered my quiery.

This time thanks are in order... but they should get their act together with the recalls... :angry:

[image: hondaseguridad.png]

That post is most helpful, Auspanol - thanks for getting us an answer! :)

Forgive the perhaps already answered / obvious / dumb question (my eyes are exhausted of reading pages and pages of threads on this topic...and searching and searching), but will someone please "dumb this down" for me, and/or re-state the PURPOSE for "fixing" the cam chain tensioner's "lack of tension"; i.e. tightening it up or replacing it?

I've had a 4th and 5th gen before (gear-driven cams, so no problem), and one previous 6th gen (but only put 5,000 miles on it, and it was a young bike...) and my current 6th gen has 52k miles on it, but only the last 10k miles are mine - so this is my first time "dealing" with this CCT "issue". If / when it gets "too loose", especially (or primarily) the front CCT, will something CATASTROPHIC happen, or just make more and more and more noise?

I saw Switchblade's cut-away engine image, and from a cursory glance and general understanding of engines, suspect there's a possibility that if/when the tensioner gets too loose, the chain could slap around enough in there to actually SNAP / break, but is this a REAL fear, or will an out-of-spec cam chain just make more noise? I mean, I'm not saying mechanical clunking sounds anywhere on a bike, let alone inside the engine, should be ignored, ever, but how bad can it really get? Switchblade's cut-away image:

[image: 072413top-i.jpg]

Sooo, why do so few people mention the MANUAL CCT (Cam Chain Tensioner) option? Is this a bad idea? Is it a GENIUS idea, but has just only been an option as of late? What am I missing? I could just do the "adjustment fix" of the original CCT(s) in my bike now, in lieu of buying new OEM ones, but is this manual CCT a viable third option? http://www.ebay.com/itm/360837192431

[image: VFR%20manual%20cam%20chain%20tensioner.j]

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Tightening up the tensioner springs is all about trying to get more life out of the existing tensioner before spending the bucks on new ones.

A manual one has the inconvenience of not having BMW spring or hydraulic damping, so it won't absorb any chain lashing if this were to occur. The greatest risk I can see in a manual one is if you overdo it when dialing in the amount of turns as you may be forcing the guide too hard up against the chain causing premature wear and stretching it to The point you are back not at square 1 but -1 as you would then need to swap out the entire timing chain and gear assembly. Expensive remedy.

You may be able to er on the side of caution until you manage to get silent operation but you will always have an unforgiving threaded rod up against the chain guide. Some people swear by them. I guess the forward one will be a bit of a pain to adjust due to the tight access but... your decision.

Auspañol

Tightening up the tensioner springs is all about trying to get more life out of the existing tensioner before spending the bucks on new ones.

A manual one has the inconvenience of not having BMW spring or hydraulic damping, so it won't absorb any chain lashing if this were to occur. The greatest risk I can see in a manual one is if you overdo it when dialing in the amount of turns as you may be forcing the guide too hard up against the chain causing premature wear and stretching it to The point you are back not at square 1 but -1 as you would then need to swap out the entire timing chain and gear assembly. Expensive remedy.

You may be able to er on the side of caution until you manage to get silent operation but you will always have an unforgiving threaded rod up against the chain guide. Some people swear by them. I guess the forward one will be a bit of a pain to adjust due to the tight access but... your decision.

Thank you for the perspective, Auspanol - seems like the OEM ones are worth the money and the manual ones have too much risk.

You probably could take the old's CCT's and make your own manual CCT's ..

Hi All.

I am new to VFRD and this is my first post and hope that this advice will ease the pain of NOT having to replace the front cct when the front chain has chattering. I have in the past replaced a rear cct and could not find anything mechanically wrong with the unit I removed, however fitting the new item cured my rear timing chain chatter. I am about to use the below procedure on a friends VFR which has front chain chatter, so I will let you know how I get on.

As the front cct is a pain to replace. Try this simple method and see how you go. It may save a lot of cursing and swearing as well as the cost of a new item.

METHOD REMOVED - The procedure of manually adjusting the tension of the cct, only appears to work for a short period. The tensioner gradually works its way back to its natural spring tension point. This is what happened to my mates bike and after a couple of days the timing chain slap returned, there was NO noise from the tensioner, it was chain slap. He will be fitting a new cct. The procedure apparently works ok on the CBR600F4i, but not on the VFR.

Regards Graham.

P.S. This is a Great Forum for us VFR addicts.

WELCOME Grum and it looks like a great plan.

Grum

Hi All.

I am new to VFRD and this is my first post and hope that this advice will ease the pain of NOT having to replace the front cct when the front chain has chattering. I have in the past replaced a rear cct and could not find anything mechanically wrong with the unit I removed, however fitting the new item cured my rear timing chain chatter. I am about to use the below procedure on a friends VFR which has front chain chatter, so I will let you know how I get on.

As the front cct is a pain to replace. Try this simple method and see how you go. It may save a lot of cursing and swearing as well as the cost of a new item.

NOTE- the adjustment of the plunger screw is quite course i.e. slight turning of the plunger adjuster CCW has a relatively large ish movement of the plunger. Same procedure should also work for the rear cct as well.

Good Luck.

Regards Graham.

P.S. This is a Great Forum for us VFR addicts.

The old turn the cct ccw is an old trick with little to zero merit, and there is no chain noise from a loose front chain, its the body of the cct itself that rattles. Several have replaced cct's this year, I expect them all to rattle if that arnt already, definitely by winter time. Increasing the lubrication flow to the cct, is the best solve Ive seen to date, Once you ran the tentioner dry for any period its too late.

Hi Spud786.

Thanks for your comments, however I'm a little concerned by your comment that its the actual cct that's making the chatter.

When my rear cylinders developed the chatter noise it was fairly clear the noise was emanating from well away from the cct area. Using the old screwdriver stethoscope method, the noise appeared worst around the upper forward area of the rear two cylinder head, also it had the same metal to metal chain chatter sound I've heard on a couple of cars many years ago.

Also the cct I removed was bathed in oil so I don't suspect there was any lubrication issue there. These cct's are not like ones I've seen in cars where the actual oil pressure is applied to the sprung plunger assembly. The oil to these cct's is there just to keep the internal mechanicals lightly lubricated so I don't see how increasing the flow of oil to the cct will have any effect.

It appears from a few other postings that the problem may be the marginal strength of the internal spring, perhaps as these age, and as the plunger further extends to make up for chain stretch and guide wear, spring strength may become marginal. I do know the procedure I posted has worked on other models of bikes with the same or similar cct's.

Whilst I do not profess to be a motorcycle technician I have serviced since new my three VFR's plus all the cars I've owned in the past 38 years.

Within a week I shall be trying the method I posted on my mates VFR and will add some info as to how I get on, however I am feeling confident it should work, as for how long, who knows?

Cheers.

Grum.

P.S. Thanks Switchblade for your kind welcome, its great to be among fellow VFR junkies from around the world, there is a wealth of helpful info on this site, a great help to us all.

spud786

Grum

Hi All.

I am new to VFRD and this is my first post and hope that this advice will ease the pain of NOT having to replace the front cct when the front chain has chattering. I have in the past replaced a rear cct and could not find anything mechanically wrong with the unit I removed, however fitting the new item cured my rear timing chain chatter. I am about to use the below procedure on a friends VFR which has front chain chatter, so I will let you know how I get on.

As the front cct is a pain to replace. Try this simple method and see how you go. It may save a lot of cursing and swearing as well as the cost of a new item.

NOTE- the adjustment of the plunger screw is quite course i.e. slight turning of the plunger adjuster CCW has a relatively large ish movement of the plunger. Same procedure should also work for the rear cct as well.

Good Luck.

Regards Graham.

P.S. This is a Great Forum for us VFR addicts.

The old turn the cct ccw is an old trick with little to zero merit, and there is no chain noise from a loose front chain, its the body of the cct itself that rattles. Several have replaced cct's this year, I expect them all to rattle if that arnt already, definitely by winter time. Increasing the lubrication flow to the cct, is the best solve Ive seen to date, Once you ran the tentioner dry for any period its too late.

I took your recommendation and increase mine by 1mm ..

The rear cct, are normally the best on longevity, the fronts are much more chronic. and without a stethoscope its really hard to tell which bank it is. Even with a stethoscope it can be a tedious to tell. The reason I know the internals of the tensioner that makes the noise is because I ran a test, to where the chain was tight enough, I could hear it rubbing hard against the guide. Did this by loosening the mounting bolts on the tensioner 2mm, this allowed the tensioner to extend taking up the slack. Then I retighten the tensioner mounting bolts forcing the tensioner even tighter, still made the noise (not a rattle now but more a knock knock rattle) and obviously the chain was very tight cause I could hear it rubbing excessively against the guide(as in dragging sound). That's how I knew, its not a loose chain causing the noise, but the tensioner itself. While the rears can eventually have issue, the fronts don't see near the fresh oil supply. Although the rear also has the same limited oil supply, its angle allows for oil to pool much more than the front. So Im not saying that you couldn't have something wrong with a low miled rear tensioner. I'm saying increasing longevity via oil flow will aide with noise and extend their lives as a means when you replace these tensioners. The oil port entering the tensioner is about 5mm, the gasket on these tensioners only allow for .5mm flow . Without good oil flow , they wear and vibrate, and many times right off the bat(at least with the fronts). Increasing that gasket hole from .5mm to 2.75mm eliminates the oil flow issue, via my testing and inspection. I wouldn't increase the oil flow more than that, but I have been building several thousand miles on the mod, on a bike that sees a lot of tight track gun and run exposure. Ive been very pleased.

As to the turn out ccw I tried that about 90,000 miles ago, its a very old trick, didn't do much in my case.

Wow this is becoming very interesting. By what you are saying spud786 There are clearly two separate issues that the cct can cause.

1. An undeniable slap or chatter from the timing chain. OR

2. The internals of the cct developing a rattle.

The problem I have experienced was clearly the the timing chain chatter for which the procedure I posted may be a simple fix. I have yet to experience a rattling cct, HOWEVER I totally agree should the internals of the cct start rattling then it must be replaced. Whilst I still have trouble getting my head around the need for better oil flow into the cct. I can understand that no doubt the pulsation effect of the timing chain will reflect back into the cct, only guessing, but this vibration back into the cct may eventually wear the worm gear creating the rattle. The next time I replace a cct I will look at slightly enlarging the gasket oil hole.

I wonder if Honda can be approached and refer this matter to their technical experts, would be interesting to get their comments.

Cheers.

Grum.

A rattling cct sounds like clack , clack, clack, which the common assumption is a loose chain, this is 99% on the vfr noise issue, poses no threat to failure(atleast on the vfr no real cases of such), other than a lot of intermittent noise at times.

The wind up type tensioners have been used for years on different models, Suzuki has a compression spring tensioner they produced to replace their wind up types. The compression spring tensioner provides a lot stronger direct tension, compared to the more complicated windup spring types. Chain life seems to suffer more with the compression spring types.

as fas as turning out counter clockwise, how far could you turn an 1/8th turn or so(that's pretty normal), you've temporarily extend the plunger, but without the spring tension holding it out there, vibration will cause it to rotate back to nominal . If your chain was loose due to lack of tension , I would expect to see a half to a full turn ccw wise atleast and that would be extremely uncommon to see without a broken spring.

Hi Spud. Thanks for more interesting stuff.

Just to add a bit more detail to my own bike and the cct replacement. It had done 76,000k's when it developed a very noticeable loud intermittent timing chain slap/chatter. It was very easy to locate it to the REAR cylinders, and again, the source of the noise did not appear near the cct, perhaps I'm one of the 1% that has timing chain slap! and not a cct rattle/clack.

At the time I simply fitted a new cct. The bike has now done 93,000k's with no further noises. I've had no issues with front cylinders (yet!) and the cct is original.

I kept the old removed cct from the rear cylinders, and today I removed the C clip to have a look inside, it easily came apart. Again there was plenty of oil inside and all the internals appeared perfect. Its operation prior to pulling it apart was smooth in both directions. The only fault that this cct could have developed is a slight loss of spring tension.

Also, before pulling it apart, I extended the plunger half way then tried to force it back, it took a hell of a lot of pressure and some jiggling to force the plunger back against the worm gear and spring tension, far more pressure than I could ever imagine the cam chain could apply to the cct, still, I guess its a possibility with heat, vibration and time that this might happen.

So I guess the bottom line with these cct's is that in time the spring tension becomes marginal and no longer has the force to apply the required tension to the chain guide, causing chatter, and, as you mention, there is a fine line between having just the right tensioner pressure to stop the chatter or too much causing premature chain and guide wear. And as you have experienced they can also develop their own internal rattle.

As I said, a mates bike has developed as he states - A loud intermittent chatter noise from the front cylinders. I have yet to hear it but when I do I shall have a very close look to establish if its chain chatter as I had, or a noise purely from the cct. And provided the cct plunger retract and extend feels smooth and therefore no indication of a broken spring, I will give the cct plunger a bit of a ccw turn to take up the slack. It may be the lazy way out but Its worth a try just to avoid the mongrel job of replacing the front cct. As to how long it might do the job for is anybody's guess. Will let you know what I find.

Cheers

Grum.

Front CCT started clacking last year on mine only at first start up and after approx. 30 seconds it would quit. A year later it would start clacking at any point in riding it. Replaced both couple months ago, so far so good .

Hi Switchblade.

Did you take note as to the noise you were getting? Was it loud chain chatter or a localised noise at the cct? Did you do a bit of a comparison of the spring tension between the new and the ones you removed? Was there anything you could find wrong with the ones removed?

Cheers

Grum.

Clack clack not the knock knock.

The new CCT had much more tension. My old front CCT had just a little tension left at cold, I would say after a run thru the Dragon and engine at high temp even less tension ..

Out of the 5 tensioners Ive had, whether they made noise or not, I really couldn't tell any difference tension wise, going from old to new, they seemed about the same. The rear tensioner I had go out around 90,000 miles, had more of a knock knock sound than a rattle, the front ones have been the rattley ones.

would this be the rattle/knocking from the tensioners, my first VFR so bit lost really...help

cheers steve

I reckon so.

What say yea all?

Yep ....

There easy to change ..

I just installed a new OEM Honda tensioner and it's leaking oil from the top of the tensioner. It rushes out the top of the tensioner when the bike is running.

Could I have poked a hole in the tensioner when I was winding the new one up to install the key?

It's the only thing I can think of. Could I have gotten a defective tensioner?

Any input is appreciated.

Is it leaking past the bolt at the pointy end of the tensioner or the two mounting bolts?

Gasket ?

[image: 0400.png]

7 or 17 leaking ?

you have to put the screw in the top of the tensioner, or else it will do that. #12 plus the washer

spud786

you have to put the screw in the top of the tensioner, or else it will do that. #12 plus the washer

Thank you. Totally spaced this one out. This is my problem.

Switchblade

[image: 0400.png]

7 or 17 leaking ?

:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:

I think when my VTEC's valves get out of spec and the CCT's go bad, rather than deal with all this I'm going to hunt down a 5th gen motor and make the swap that HighSideNZ did. I hope I'm up to the challenge . . .

Cogswell

I think when my VTEC's valves get out of spec and the CCT's go bad, rather than deal with all this I'm going to hunt down a 5th gen motor and make the swap that HighSideNZ did. I hope I'm up to the challenge . . .

I'll take the 6th gen motor.

SnoPro753

spud786

you have to put the screw in the top of the tensioner, or else it will do that. #12 plus the washer

Thank you. Totally spaced this one out. This is my problem.

How fast does it pour out, was this the front or the rear, just curious how much pressure the flow has? modded gasket or standard?

Not sure if anyone still active on this post. When installing a manual cct is there room in there to get a wrench on the locknut on the new cct from the side?

oops

Not sure if anyone still active on this post. When installing a manual cct is there room in there to get a wrench on the locknut on the new cct from the side?

From what I hear you need a crows foot wrench and extension.

IMO just do the gasket mod, install a new auto tensioner and live happily ever after.

spud786

oops

Not sure if anyone still active on this post. When installing a manual cct is there room in there to get a wrench on the locknut on the new cct from the side?

From what I hear you need a crows foot wrench and extension.

IMO just do the gasket mod, install a new auto tensioner and live happily ever after.

+1 .

Sorry to revive a dead thread, however, does the bike needs to be set to TDC (top dead center) before removing the CCT? I'm getting mixed opinions on the matter.

Ragnaco

Sorry to revive a dead thread, however, does the bike needs to be set to TDC (top dead center) before removing the CCT? I'm getting mixed opinions on the matter.

I did not set mine to TDC when I did mine I just removed and replaced 1 at a time and also enlarged the oil passage in the Gasket as per "SPUDS" post's

Then wound the motor over by hand 2 or three times to make sure there was no interference

Then just started the bike as normal and listened to the sweet sound of NO MORE chain slap / tensioner rattle

Ragnaco

Sorry to revive a dead thread, however, does the bike needs to be set to TDC (top dead center) before removing the CCT? I'm getting mixed opinions on the matter.

No ..

Maybe they're thinking of valve adjustments. The CCTs don't know where the crank or cams are at in their rotation - they're just pressing against the chain.

Just when you thought everybody was covered on this topic.

From personal experience.  

Tapping the threaded holes for the front cam chain adjuster is miserable.  So don't be like me and don't be lazy.  Pull the airbox, pull the coolant line and take your time.

I didn't and seriously wish I would have.  (made this otherwise 2 hour project 5 hours and lots of stress).

I'm only 4k miles from home on a work trip.  (probably not the best time to be doing this type of work). 

using a co-workers rental condo landlords standard tool set.

I installed APE Racing units.  And the guys at APE racing are fantastic.  

However, he did recommend installing the manual cam adjusters at TDC.   I'm not 100% why?  But that's what I did.

also important to note:  a short wrench might be required or a crows foot to tighten the locknut on the forward cylinder. 

I had neither and this only made the job that much harder.

Otherwise my "Sounds like a connecting rod coming through the side of a motor" cam chain noise at 37k is finally gone.  Jeez that was a noise I didn't like hearing.

also from APE Racing,  "Don't make this adjustment out to be more than it is. 

Finger, yes finger tight, then back off 1/4 turn on the adjustment and lock in place).  That's it you are done."

So how often do do need to check the tension on those manual CCT's?

Well lessons learned ...

You adjust the manual cam chain tensioner when you hear a rattle.

or more likely,. Every oil change just because or every valve adjustment

or somewhere in between.

candyredrc46.

with the work/time/ knowledge you have with your vfr I'm surprised you haven't gone this route.

after researching the auto cct and seeing a trend with people replacing more than once I got manual.  

Purchase once and adjust as needed with no replacement required again.  Just adjusting if required.

Quote

Quote

I would rather change out auto CCT's every 30,000 miles, than adjust manual CCT's every 3,000 miles. I am not a fan of adding maintenance and complexity unless it adds Horsepower or makes you faster. I would use manual CCT's if they were worth a few hp lol.

I took the key out of my new CCT, the shaft extended and now I don't know what to do...

Going to change my front CCT tomorrow so I'm reviewing this excellent thread to get ready. Gathering tools, found the purchased CCT and while looking at it, well, I uh removed the key. And the shaft extended. And now I can't figure out how to retract it.

I'm assuming it should be retracted when replacing? 

[image: CCT_smh.jpg]

Disregard, Youtube to the rescue!

I followed the tutorial and was able to change my CCT. No more knocking = I'm not embarrassed to ride again! 

Thanks for the write up.

Phongeer, 12/2/2016 at 5:13 PM

Disregard, Youtube to the rescue!

It has been known to come in handy! Amazing what you can find on YouTube.

now that is a really useful utube video...   Thanks

just followed this guide on my 2011 vfr800 with only 40,000km it had started to rattle after a low side, then a 6 month sitting in the garage while my bones re grew.  (insurance did a full new set of fairings and panniers and anything else with a scratch on it and i did an oil change before the first ride)

i found it surprisingly easy, as i was also doing a coolant change too, i just did it when the coolant was drained out of it. 

interesting i was sure it was going to be a noisy front one, so i did that first, starrted it up, rattle little quieter but still their, so i did the back one, which i found the hardest as it leaks oil and the key wouldn't stay in so i had to hold it in place while i undid it. 

started it up, very very quiet. like a new bike again. except with the full motard decat system and debaffled stain tunes.

Opening this up for another question.  At the start of this thread, there is mention of a "key" above and below the 7th photo.  I know there are two bolts on either side of the CCT, and there appears to be a bolt at the center of the CCT that is also removed.  Are the pliers being used to grasp the key while the CCT is pulled from the case to prevent the shaft of the CCT from extending ?   If so, do you apply a pulling force to the pliers, or do you use the pliers to keep the key in place while you remove the CCT?

The key should lock into place, as seen here...

[image: d74a8bb0f632a717e485af534c3168d2.jpg]

Great guide cheers!!

Doing this job next week.

Just 1 (dumb) question.... with you disconnecting the coolant hoses, does this require purging afterwards or will the pump sort it out? 

I did my front Cam Chain Tensioner today and took a few photos to show what I did. This is not the full sequence as that has already been done but simply my tips on achieving chain karma.

[image: 20180527_130453.thumb.jpg.eef70435c3b82357e42e55df39581619.jpg]

Here I have split some of the harness connections and used a luggage strap to hold the rest of the harness out of the way. The luggage strap you see coming out of the frame to the rear is holding the famous coolant hose out of the way, you do not have to remove it.

[image: 20180527_115938.thumb.jpg.aa7b7c18f029b1227de3a3e49cd940b8.jpg]

Here you see the problem with the coolant hose, it covers the lower CCT bolt and flange.

[image: 20180527_121020.thumb.jpg.08125141728201759f816c249975aaef.jpg]

Here you see the effect of the luggage strap pulling the hose out of the way. This give free access to the CCT. I used 1/4" drive sockets to access the bolts and forceps/pliers to manipulate the CCT key. Once the bolts are undone the CCT can be withdrawn and replaced quite easily. Being a bit lazy I did not remove the tank and was completed without any awkward nastiness.

Hi peoples.

i have managed to remove the old cct.

one of my kids accidentally pulled the key,

can I still ahead putting it back in whilst it’s retracted?

You can use the key to re-wind it by turning it clockwise.  Then re-install.  Not a big deal.  Don't forget that the washer on the bolt is aluminum - if you drop it a magnet will not retrieve it, so be careful on the front one (DAMHIK).

You have an interesting avatar - is that a Bently that's flooded?  Where was that photo taken?

 

So insert the key, and twist clock wise?

how do I know when to stop?

ohh that avatar, was taken many many years ago, when they had heavy rain in Jakarta Indonesia 

5 hours ago, N2v

So insert the key, and twist clock wise?

how do I know when to stop?

ohh that avatar, was taken many many years ago, when they had heavy rain in Jakarta Indonesia 

Just turn it until you feel sufficient resistance - you'll instinctively know when to stop.  Just don't reef on it trying to turn it too much - you'll probably either bend or break the key.  It's the same as you did to initially have the key in there before the little tyke took it out . . .  All you're doing is retracting the plunger - if you don't retract it exactly 100% it's not that big a deal.  You're just winding the tensioner spring to retract the plunger from the chain so that you can seat the tensioner properly to secure it with the bolts.  Then release it so the plunger once again contacts the guide/chain.  Do a youtube search on "rebuilding VFR tensioner" - the presenter shows the internals of how they work.  Actually, the best way to deal with CCT's on a 6th gen (or 8th for that matter) is not to deal with them - some of you know what I mean . . . :ph34r:

[image: image.png.da3bd1f8d25c73bdcb752e4dfff0b8cc.png]

If that is a Bently in the photo, thank God - better a Bently than a VFR!  :laugh:

Rice, 9/11/2009 at 5:05 PM

Good post, TW.

Just to add a little tidbit from personal experience.

If you do nothing else right, these three things MUST be done.

1 - Don't be a lazy bestid and remove that hose.

2 - The CCT CAN be removed w/o the little key. BUT Don't be a lazy bestid and use the key

3 - You could tighten the two CCT bolts by hand, BUT Don't be a lazy bestid and use the torque wrench.

Following these simple instructions will prevent a lot of gray hairs and you wouldn't have to post topics titled "Oooopppsss!!!"

Ask me how I know :blush: :dry: :rolleyes: :ph34r:

11 years later, the truth lives.

Quick backstory - bought my 02 VFR used in 2012.  When I installed a K&N, I noticed the airbox velocity stack bolts were all stripped... odd, what did the PO do under the airbox?  A year later I installed a PC 5, had to go under the airbox - first extract the stripped screws [one was so bad I actually dremel'ed off the velocity stack for better access] no sign of damage or any other ham-fisted repairs/'upgrades', so who knows... forget about it.

To present - front CCT has been clacking off and on for a couple of years, seems to be getting more frequent.  "Just get on with it" - ordered a replacement.

I was all worried and worked up about dropping the damn 'cap' off the old CCT into the engine.  I got all set up, wires and hoses out of the way (TB still left on the bike)... put the ratchet on the top bolt of the CCT, removed, and the sealing washer falls off and under the TB/hoses where I simply can't get it.  Damnit.  You know its aluminum so a magnet won't work, but no worries, I check with local Honda and they actually have one in stock!  $2 and I'm back in business, ready to attempt the next day.

Put the ratchet on one of the two bolts which hold the CCT to the engine case, start turning, no resistance (thats weird, it seems loose already) and this is what I get:

[image: 20200615_174603.thumb.jpg.9c18941affeabe432413931bd93d9e80.jpg]

"3 - You could tighten the two CCT bolts by hand, BUT Don't be a lazy bestid and use the torque wrench."

Methinks the PO had replaced the CCT previously. [metal CAP was pinched on TIGHT, had to pry it off... very confident this had been replaced]

Methinks the PO did not use a torque wrench, look at the stretch on the intact bolt!  The head/cap literally just twisted off the first bolt, the second fortunately came out properly.

Methinks this is when the bonehead probably did the damage to the airbox bolts... ah well at least now I know.

[image: 20200616_102041.thumb.jpg.152599db7c79c75f03257060e84d8f32.jpg]

I was deathly afraid of scratching/grooving/damaging the mounting surface.  I was deathly afraid of drilling in crooked and catching the threads... I know thats not an 'end of the world' situation, but its one I have never dealt with, and its the top of the engine case!

Its also summer so I don't want the bike to be down for days/weeks/months... and I did NOT want to pull the TB and cooling hoses and start having to replace gaskets and seals and washers etc [that is a winter project next year when I have a garage instead of a driveway for a workshop].

Fortunately my Dremel fit between the frame and TB and let me get a drill bit on the stub.  I drilled off and on for part of 2 days, SLOWLY, CAREFULLY, with 2 different sized bits and the mounting surface taped off to minimize chance of damaging it.

[image: 20200619_151036.thumb.jpg.6222843d74137bc8b7f0c8425e24eabe.jpg]

In the end I was fortunate and got the bolt out without doing any significant damage [pic shows some of the metal flakes from removal still around the hole, I have since cleaned that up with a Q-tip soaked in brake cleaner].  It was beer-o'clock so I had to stop there and do a victory lap.  Today I finish the CCT change.  I enlarged the gasket pinhole to 2.5mm so hopefully that helps this one last longer.

[image: 20200620_134106.thumb.jpg.a5ac21972e8cfbd4580ca6f9215cbc25.jpg]

[image: 20200620_134131.thumb.jpg.36b9381fadf207ff9bf418730d650033.jpg]

DON'T OVER-TORQUE YOUR BOLTS!!! 😃

Update:  all back together

[image: 20200621_082602.thumb.jpg.2ca8e1e313619f7b596bc91a1abed41b.jpg]

What are the torque specifications please.

I can't find it in the sm. It mentions the cct flange bolts but not cct lifter bolts.

Cheers

2 hours ago, boOZZIE

What are the torque specifications please.

I can't find it in the sm. It mentions the cct flange bolts but not cct lifter bolts.

Cheers

CCT flange bolts and CCT lifter bolts are the same thing, spec is 20ft-lb.

Post Edit - Sorry, Not correct, I got confused with the internal and external CCT's.!  :wacko:

I'm reading that as the internal cct bolt p297 sm not as the bolt for the external cct lifter or are they the same spec?

1 hour ago, boOZZIE

I'm reading that as the internal cct bolt p297 sm not as the bolt for the external cct lifter or are they the same spec?

Ah yes, sorry, I see what you mean now.

They are talking about the Internal Cam Guide and the Internal Tensioner, not the external two bolts for the external CCT.

You're right, I can't seem to find a torque value for the two external CCT bolts. - Interesting. 

Also checked the 8gen Service Manual no luck.

It is for sure concerning when threading steel bolts in to an aluminum engine case . . . When a torque value is not specified,  in the FSM  I look at other bolts with the the same diameter that thread in to the same or similar locations. So for example if those bolts are the same thread / diameter as the clutch cover or water pump bolts I use the torque spec for those as my "never exceed" value,  my reasoning being that the bolt / threads should be able to accept at least that value without stripping or breaking.  Presuming that the CCT bolts are the same,  I would think that the CCT wouldn't need to be any tighter than those other components.   

I may be FOS, but it has kept me out of trouble so far - knock on wood.  🙂

so it appears from member Danll that 9ft/lb is the correct torque spec for these bolts

After firing up my 02 for the first time in 3-4 years it sounds like I need to change out my front CCT for the third time at 106k miles.

Because I'm old and lazy I will again us my method of removing nothing but the air box. Too lazy to mess with coolant and tiny hoses. lol

The rear CCT gets drenched in oil and rarely wears IMO so I won't touch it at all.

Ride-on brotha viffers

RE: torque specs.  Some folks had posted a 20 ft lb torque spec based on an incorrect read of the manual. The manual does show 20 ft lbs for 2 cam chain tensioner flange bolts, those are different bolts (internal engine bolts).  The bolts for the external tensioner "Plunge" thingie are 5mm diameter bolts (M5) with an 8 mm hex head.  What confuses folks is that torque specs for a given bolt size is based on the thread diameter, not the hex head size.  The range for a metric M5 bolt is from 7-9 ft lbs.  Generally you can use the standard torque values found in various tables for a given bolt diameter if you lack specific torque values for a specific application.  The only variance would be in the grade of the bolts...a higher grade may allow a slightly higher torque value. 

53 minutes ago, danll

RE: torque specs.  Some folks had posted a 20 ft lb torque spec based on an incorrect read of the manual. The manual does show 20 ft lbs for 2 cam chain tensioner flange bolts, those are different bolts (internal engine bolts).  The bolts for the external tensioner "Plunge" thingie are 5mm diameter bolts (M5) with an 8 mm hex head.  What confuses folks is that torque specs for a given bolt size is based on the thread diameter, not the hex head size.  The range for a metric M5 bolt is from 7-9 ft lbs.  Generally you can use the standard torque values found in various tables for a given bolt diameter if you lack specific torque values for a specific application.  The only variance would be in the grade of the bolts...a higher grade may allow a slightly higher torque value. 

Well stated danll.

Confusion bought about by poor terminology. The CCT's ARE the Internal devices, and the CCT-Lifter is the device we are so used to replacing, with the two M5 8mm Hex Head bolts.