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Rear Tire Cupping?

23 posts Started 26 Oct 2007 Last recovered post 19 Apr 2008 Wayback Machine snapshot 9 Apr 2010

#1
Basic question you'll say but here, lately I found that the bike was less than rock solid at highway speeds in curves, I feel a bit of a wobble, could be due to lower temperature tire operation (low 40Fs), but then I looked at the rear tire closely (never done that before!) and found that the center section was considerably more worn than the sides (obviously?), when I run a finger over the tire I feel the edges on either sides, but this could be entirely normal.

Gosh I'm uneducated..

Regards,
Bruckner
#2
Normal if you ride mostly on the highway and such. Most people, unless you live by the gap or track the bike, wear out the center way before the sides.
#3
Be sure not to run your tires underinflated. It'll wear them out faster.

36f/42r is the standard setting as per Mother H.
#4
Doesnt sound like cupping but just normal tire wear. Whats the mileage and make of tire?
#5
It's a BT20 in the back (changed the front to BT21 a couple weeks ago), rear seems to have plenty of thread left even in the middle, it simply isn't rounded as I suppose they come new. I'll check pressure.

Regards,
Bruckner
#6
Themore common (normal? at least for some brands like Dunlop) cupping happens on the front tire. Never really heard of anyone else here that suffered from rear tire cupping. I haven't

Beck
95 VFR
#7
The tire isn't cupping it's "squaring" off. Unless you're blessed enough to live in an area surrounded by winding roads it will (I think I'm safe in saying this) always happen.

Due to one of those injustices/indignities of life some folks around here (who shall remain nameless) live in areas where they can routinely wear out the sides of their tires. For the rest of us, a reality of life is dealing with squared off, flattened rear tires.

Sorry.


jim
#8

[image: View Post]vfrjim2002, on Oct 26 2007, 03:16 PM, said:

The tire isn't cupping it's "squaring" off. Unless you're blessed enough to live in an area surrounded by winding roads it will (I think I'm safe in saying this) always happen.

Due to one of those injustices/indignities of life some folks around here (who shall remain nameless) live in areas where they can routinely wear out the sides of their tires. For the rest of us, a reality of life is dealing with squared off, flattened rear tires.

Sorry.


jim

Living in Northwest Indiana, squared-off tires are normal.
#9

[image: View Post]Beck, on Oct 27 2007, 08:18 AM, said:

Themore common (normal? at least for some brands like Dunlop) cupping happens on the front tire. Never really heard of anyone else here that suffered from rear tire cupping.
Before I changed my tyres a few days ago, I ran my hand over the rear tyre. The tread blocks around the sides of the tyre were definitely kinda cupped. Also, when doing tight u-turns, the back end would buzz badly - it felt almost like something rubbing.
I've always run at least 40 psi in the back, and can only put it down to not enough TwistieAction™. That set of tyres had the crappest wear patterns I've ever had, apart from my VTR1000, which had horribly worn Pirellis (Dragon and Corsa) due to the PO running them at too low a pressure and doing lots of slabbing.
#10
Rear tires will cup.

Living in the twisties, whether I run sport tires or sport touring tires, I mostly pour the power on the tires through and coming out of curves and the tread patterns on the sides will show a little cupping. Just a free opinion, the BT020 is probably the worst performing motorcycle tire ever made for twisties in modern times.....right there with the Pilot Road. FWIW.
#11

[image: View Post]Bent, on Oct 26 2007, 11:23 PM, said:

Just a free opinion, the BT020 is probably the worst performing motorcycle tire ever made for twisties in modern times.....right there with the Pilot Road. FWIW.

actually all tires wear like that. we spend more time upright than cornering, tires will normally wear faster in the centre. tire pressure is important since if it's too low the rear will flatten and square off more quickly. tire preferences are like rear orifices, everyone has one - the BT021 and Pilot Roads should last into the 11-14,000 kilometre range before you start to encounter the problems you have like vibration or strange cornering behavior.

perfectly normal, nothing to worry about. keep monitoring your tire pressure and all will be fine. :thumbsup:
#12
Rear tires will in fact cup! You can feel it like a shallow bowl in the tire, and it usually happens where the rain grooves are. You said you get a wallowing in the curves which leads me to believe that your rebound is not set high enough. Try a click or two on the bottom of the shock to increase the rebound, that should smooth it out some and give you a more planted feel in the turns. If the bike feels unstable loose and bouncy the tire is actually bounding out of the bumps and leaving the ground when it comes up on the rebound stroke and then comming back down hard creating cups in the tire when stikes the ground. Its not a compliant ride. Increase the rebound - if you go too far it will feel hard and bumpy.
#13

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on Oct 26 2007, 06:52 PM, said:

Rear tires will in fact cup! You can feel it like a shallow bowl in the tire, and it usually happens where the rain grooves are. You said you get a wallowing in the curves which leads me to believe that your rebound is not set high enough. Try a click or two on the bottom of the shock to increase the rebound, that should smooth it out some and give you a more planted feel in the turns. If the bike feels unstable loose and bouncy the tire is actually bounding out of the bumps and leaving the ground when it comes up on the rebound stroke and then comming back down hard creating cups in the tire when stikes the ground. Its not a compliant ride. Increase the rebound - if you go too far it will feel hard and bumpy.

:+1: Very eloquently put.
#14

[image: View Post]superfunkomatic, on Oct 26 2007, 06:51 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Bent, on Oct 26 2007, 11:23 PM, said:

Just a free opinion, the BT020 is probably the worst performing motorcycle tire ever made for twisties in modern times.....right there with the Pilot Road. FWIW.

actually all tires wear like that. we spend more time upright than cornering, tires will normally wear faster in the centre. tire pressure is important since if it's too low the rear will flatten and square off more quickly. tire preferences are like rear orifices, everyone has one - the BT021 and Pilot Roads should last into the 11-14,000 kilometre range before you start to encounter the problems you have like vibration or strange cornering behavior.

perfectly normal, nothing to worry about. keep monitoring your tire pressure and all will be fine. :thumbsup:

"We" = Negatory.... :wheel:
#15

[image: View Post]Bent, on Oct 26 2007, 07:23 PM, said:

Just a free opinion, the BT020 is probably the worst performing motorcycle tire ever made for twisties in modern times.....right there with the Pilot Road. FWIW.

I beg to differ; the Metzler MeZ4 is without a doubt THE worst semi-sporting tire EVER.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/SEBSPEED2003/8106004.jpg

Slips and spins all over! :joystick:
#16

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Oct 26 2007, 07:17 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Bent, on Oct 26 2007, 07:23 PM, said:

Just a free opinion, the BT020 is probably the worst performing motorcycle tire ever made for twisties in modern times.....right there with the Pilot Road. FWIW.

I beg to differ; the Metzler MeZ4 is without a doubt THE worst semi-sporting tire EVER.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/SEBSPEED2003/8106004.jpg

Slips and spins all over! :joystick:

I concede and unconditionally surrender.... :thumbsup:
#17

[image: View Post]Bent, on Oct 27 2007, 12:07 AM, said:

"We" = Negatory.... :wheel:
har har! you must live in a loop then. :goofy:
#18

[image: View Post]Bent, on Oct 26 2007, 04:23 PM, said:

Rear tires will cup.

Living in the twisties, whether I run sport tires or sport touring tires, I mostly pour the power on the tires through and coming out of curves and the tread patterns on the sides will show a little cupping. Just a free opinion, the BT020 is probably the worst performing motorcycle tire ever made for twisties in modern times.....right there with the Pilot Road. FWIW.

I'm sure there are many tires less qualified to turn than the B-020's. I've had others tell me tehy like the B-021's. I just ran a set of Pilot Powers. They SUCKED! Gone in under 3K miles.

I stuck a set of Road 2's on I hope they last longer. I have O miles on them so far. I hope they work as goor as the powers did at first.

I've had cupping issues on all front tires except for Metzler Z6. I can't figure out why....?
#19

[image: View Post]TommyHoffman, on Oct 27 2007, 10:28 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Bent, on Oct 26 2007, 04:23 PM, said:

Rear tires will cup.

Living in the twisties, whether I run sport tires or sport touring tires, I mostly pour the power on the tires through and coming out of curves and the tread patterns on the sides will show a little cupping. Just a free opinion, the BT020 is probably the worst performing motorcycle tire ever made for twisties in modern times.....right there with the Pilot Road. FWIW.

I'm sure there are many tires less qualified to turn than the B-020's. I've had others tell me tehy like the B-021's. I just ran a set of Pilot Powers. They SUCKED! Gone in under 3K miles.

I stuck a set of Road 2's on I hope they last longer. I have O miles on them so far. I hope they work as goor as the powers did at first.

I've had cupping issues on all front tires except for Metzler Z6. I can't figure out why....?

Ride PPowers or M3's in the twisties around here and you'll get 2K out of them....except Mr. Skuuter of course.... :thumbsup: Quit stunting on the handle bars and the fronts won't cup as bad.... :goofy:
#20

[image: View Post]TommyHoffman, on Oct 27 2007, 10:28 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Bent, on Oct 26 2007, 04:23 PM, said:

Rear tires will cup.

Living in the twisties, whether I run sport tires or sport touring tires, I mostly pour the power on the tires through and coming out of curves and the tread patterns on the sides will show a little cupping. Just a free opinion, the BT020 is probably the worst performing motorcycle tire ever made for twisties in modern times.....right there with the Pilot Road. FWIW.

I'm sure there are many tires less qualified to turn than the B-020's. I've had others tell me tehy like the B-021's. I just ran a set of Pilot Powers. They SUCKED! Gone in under 3K miles.

I stuck a set of Road 2's on I hope they last longer. I have O miles on them so far. I hope they work as goor as the powers did at first.

I've had cupping issues on all front tires except for Metzler Z6. I can't figure out why....?

did ya run the regular p powers or 2ct? I dont run the rear ppower(low life) but the front performs so good I've stopped looking for better front tires, and I can get 6,000 mile easliy to the cord on the front tire.

I just mounted a BT21 rear, intial run seemed good, but I'll know more in a month or so
#21

[image: View Post]Bruckner, on Oct 26 2007, 09:52 AM, said:

Basic question you'll say but here, lately I found that the bike was less than rock solid at highway speeds in curves, I feel a bit of a wobble, could be due to lower temperature tire operation (low 40Fs), but then I looked at the rear tire closely (never done that before!) and found that the center section was considerably more worn than the sides (obviously?), when I run a finger over the tire I feel the edges on either sides, but this could be entirely normal.

Gosh I'm uneducated..

Regards,
Bruckner

If your problem is with the rear then is should feel more like a weave than a wobble...
to understand the difference between a WEAVE AND WOBBLE read on...

Most of us have experienced a wobble or a weave or have been told
about them. Few of us have a clear understanding of what a wobble
or weave actually is. Motorcycle instabilities are usually lumped
into a catch-all description wobble. Before one can do anything about
a problem, one must first understand its nature. There are three
destabilizing forces acting on a motorcycle as it moves down the
road: weave, wobble and upset. When a bike weaves enough to notice,
the front fork assembly remains straight and the rest of the motorcycle
moves from side to side several times each second. A bike that is
seriously wobbling shakes its head while the rest of the machine remains
mostly straight and stable; the shaking (wobble) is very rapid and
difficult to control. Upset simply describes the same tendency to fall
over as the machine has when it is stopped.

When interpreting the dynamics of motorcycle stability, it is useful
to view a motorcycle as having two major dynamic assemblies: the chassis
aft of the steering head and the front fork assembly. Like the wheels
of a shopping cart, these assemblies can sometimes embarrass us.
Any motorcycle chassis constantly tries to oscillate (weave) back and forth
about the steering head at between two and five times per second. Every
bike has this instability; it is held in check by damping forces created
mainly by the rear tire's self-correcting tendencies. If the tire's
natural oscillation frequency happens to coincide with the chassis,
the bike will weave. This seldom happens,though, as tires have much higher
frequencies than the typical chassis. For the tire to do its work, it must be
properly inflated and rigidly connected to the chassis. Worn swingarm
bushings, or poorly damped suspension springs can defeat the best tire's
stabilizing influence.

CUPPING:
Cupping, which is more accurately described as scalloping is a natural
wear pattern on motorcycle tires and it will always follow the tread
pattern. It is not a sign that you have bad suspension parts. It
merely shows that your tire is indeed gripping the road when you make
turns (thank you for that Mr. Tire!). This cupping develops within the
side wear bands of a leaned motorcycle. The extreme forces that come
in to play when the bike is leaned in a turn are what produce the
effect and when the wear becomes sufficient, one will experience
vibration and noise when one banks into a turn. Cupping follows the
tread pattern. The leading edge of the tread does not flex much as it
grips the road and the rubber is scuffed off the tire in that area
causing a depression. As the tire rotates, the pressure moves to the
trailing edge of the tread pattern where the tread flexes more causing
less scuffing so less material is ground off the tire. The more
complex the tread pattern, the more complex the cupping pattern will
be. The softer the compound of the tire, the sooner this cupping will
develop. Radial tires are more prone to cupping than are bias ply
because the compound of radials is softer. Low tire pressure will
exacerbate this wear pattern and you will lose many serviceable miles
by running low. Improper balance has nothing to do with cupping on a
motorcycle tire. Improper balance will merely cause your bike to
vibrate within certain specific speed ranges.
#22
Anyone tried the new Dunlop Roadsmart tires? I have a set on order but won't really be able to say much until later in the season as to their wear.
#23
Since last October, I've ridden about (4) z6 rears. I've gotten tired of them and they arent yielding the life I was looking for although met minimum standard, as far as traction.

So I decided to try a very very lonely BT21 rear on the top shelf collecting dust, 44 psi in it , which seems high but it didnt mind it much.

It works very well with my ppower front, falls in very nicely and accurate, I just hope it will yeilds greater life than the z6 rear but it is a step up off the z6 rear performance wise, in the handling area, and feels glueish on the sides.
End of thread · 23 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 9 Apr 2010