As i had posted a few months back, while my '02 was in for the recall i had them install a new set of the Road Smarts for me, trying to avoid the price of the new Pilot Roads. Ive been through 2 sets of the last gen PR's, and was always satisfied with them. My last set went about 7000 miles on the rear, and the front couldve done 10k miles or probably more, with both front and rear always wearing smooth and uniformly. However, both of the front PR's always gave me a bit of tire noise at times though, even when brand new, which i figured out was the tire after i rode on the new dunlops....and the noise went away. Not an objectionable noise though, just something i noticed.
But this week, I rode out to Colorado and returned last night which is about 1200 miles for me each way, and did about 1000 miles in the mountains while there. Ive had the tires on for a few hundred miles before the trip. Ever since I bought them, I liked the turn in and reduced noise of the dunlops. Not doing a whole lot of twisty road riding before the trip, i couldnt really speak for their grip too much yet. But, after the 3-4k miles of this week, the problem that I had been afraid of with this tire came up, as it has with my other dunlops.....front tire cupping. The middle area of the tire tread is literaly appearing to look raised up, about an inch wide, with unevenly worn parts on either side of this "ridge". granted, most of the tires mileage was freeway so i would expect wear in the center of the tire, but i dont feel that explains this. And this unusual wear has started some noticable front tire noise as well now, whereas before the trip they were silent. My previous two sets of PR's never wore like this, and they saw just as many freeway miles. I check tire pressure almost daily, and ran the front at about 35 and rear at about 41. This was partially the reason i was skeptical about purchasing Dunlops this time around, after having countless issues with cupping on my Dunlop 208's that I had on my RC51. But everything looked so promising on the road smart, and the price was great. Any ideas on this issue or thoughts would be appreciated. I should mention that before the trip, i raised the forks about 5mm, and never had any headshake and still dont.
The rear however has been a different story. As it is a dual compound, there still is noticable center wear from all the highway mileage....i dont think you can ever get away from that. But I do believe this is less center wear than i remember my PR's showing after similar highway mileage. Granted i havent actually taken a tread depth measurement, but the rear appears to be worn about 60% id say in the center (the area with the least amount of tread left). So for a rear tire, the mileage lifespan seems to be satisfactory so far. But keep in mind that most of this tire's use has been freeway riding, 70-90 mph.
So basically, lol, ive been satisfied with the rear....but not so much with the front. Any thoughts are appreciated.
Dunlop/ Bridgestones.....I always cup the fronts.....even the cruiser tires do it, so it's a "company tire problem" not isolated to just their sport bike tires....... :beer: ... Only Dunlop I've ever owned with any amount of miles with no front cupping is on my Gold Wing right now......7000 with no cupping. If they can engineer special "Gold Wing Only" tires that last like this, the same engineering should trickle down............. :fing02:
I have much better luck with Michelins on my sport bikes............ :pissed:
I agree....Ive had a couple friends who have had dunlops (VTR1000, SV650), and have watched them go through the same thing, not to mention the 220's my dad keeps getting talked into putting on his '96 VFR. Im kind of finished with dunlop; after my pilot roads I said i'd stick with michelin, but the price i got on the roadsmarts was too attractive at $236 for the set from my dealer, compared to not being able to get the PR2's at all at that time, not to mention their cost.
With all the "my dunflops cupped" threads ive read I will never have another set no matter how attractive the Price.. OK well maybe if there free... The ones that came stock on my 06 started cupping at 2500 miles (D204's)
Got 3 sets of Pirelli's waiting to go on when these PP's are gone.. :laugh:
Yeah, the price is what got me with the roadsmarts. After researching the tire beforehand (granted without hearing any real world, long term reviews), I was silly to think that maybe this new tire would be a different, improved animal. I think in many ways it is, but not in the cupping department obviously....
I too am running a set of Roadsmart tires on my 06 with a little over 3000 mi on them. I have experienced no cupping on the front. The rear seems to wear a little more than I would have expected with the dual compound. The turn-in and the straight line stability is better than any tire I have ever used. In the wet the front feels a little vague and less planted than other tires but I haven't experieced any slippage in turns or under hard braking. I'm impressed with this tire and will definately replace them with the same.
The middle area of the tire tread is literaly appearing to look raised up, about an inch wide, with unevenly worn parts on either side of this "ridge".
Do yo have a pic of the front tire, as that doesn't sound like cupping to me, more like way to low tire pressure. Did you ever check your pressure gauge against another to verify if it is still OK?
I'm curious about the Roadsmarts myself. Any other 3k+ experiences? I like the Bridgestone BT021's, but the Roadsmarts seems to be aggressively priced. More long-term experiences out there?
I installed a set of BT021's last year.....after returning from a trip to the Black Hills, the bike wanted to "fall" into the turn. Although I suspected it, I didnt really go over the tire to see if that was the problem. But this spring, I decided to get a PR2 installed onto the front and with the original BT021 rear, now its like its on rails!
Well, ok, an Elka shock and Racetech springs may have helped the matter. But the bike steers the way it should now.
And for those that want to save a few bucks on probably the most important items on your bike, 99% of the time, you get what you pay for.
I will take a pic of the tire sometime this weekend. I wouldnt necessarily classify it as cupping either, but its the only description I could vaguely give. And btw, tire pressures since the tires were installed have been kept right at the stock Honda specified pressures, around 35/41. The only thing I can think of is this being the result of the all-slab riding I did from Milwaukee to Colorado, and back. Its about 1200 miles each way. I would obviously expect the center area to wear somewhat flat after all of that freeway riding, but not in the fashion that it has. However, this IS supposed to be a sport/touring tire...so I dont feel that highway riding should cause this much of an issue with abnormal wear.
It is a shame like I said; I did really like the tires before this wear thing happened; they handled well, were quiet, and the wear on the rear was pretty satisfactory so far. And the price of $236 for the pair from my dealer had me pleased as well. I was hoping Id finally found a Dunlop that wouldnt have funny front wear characterisitics. After taking it out the other night after not really being on the bike since i returned from CO, it was very apparent that the handling quality has really started to suffer.
By the way, i just called the dealer to get the exact mileage on when they were installed. I have exactly 4100 miles on the tires since they were put on, and roughly 2500 of those were straight slab, 70-80 mph.
I'm wary of Dunlops and Bridgestones b/c of front tire cupping issues, too. I was hoping the RoadSmarts would be different. Oh well. Plenty of other great tires out there, even if most of them are more expensive.
On a related note, my Conti Sport Attack front is cupping. I noticed it a couple weeks ago and now when I'm doing (an indicated) 90 mph the front end shakes. Not uncontrollably, but it's a good thing I don't go that fast very often! ;) I even checked my rim to make sure the balancing weights were still on there. (They are.)
It's perplexing since the Road Attack I had on the front last year never cupped. Again, no biggie - lots of other good skins available, including a new set of Diablos waiting in my garage right now.
Yep, I felt the same way when i heard about the new RoadSmarts....hoping they'd be different from the previous Dunlops Ive had and others I know have had. Besides this wear issue I do like them alot. But all highway miles or not, I just dont see any reason why the front tire did this, and to this extent. My pilot roads saw nearly the same highway mileage, and the front had 7k miles and couldve gone another 3k, and wasnt showing any signs of the odd wear like this one has.
I think its Michelins for me from now on, and I hear the PR2's are dropping in price a bit and have heard nothing but awesome things about them thus far. I might dabble with the Avons too soon.
[image: View Post]TimC, on Jun 13 2008, 12:33 PM, said:
...my Conti Sport Attack front is cupping. I noticed it a couple weeks ago and now when I'm doing (an indicated) 90 mph the front end shakes. Not uncontrollably, but it's a good thing I don't go that fast very often! ;) I even checked my rim to make sure the balancing weights were still on there. (They are.) Update: Here's what I found Saturday afternoon - my tires had too much air in them. I went to check both tires prior to a ride to Toledo and found the front tire had 50 psi in it. My stupid bicycle tire pump gauge is not accurate, which I found out when I gauged the tires Sat. and both gauges showed the same pressures.
I took both tires' pressures down to normal levels and slabbed it to Toledo and back. Most of the shaking is gone and I expect the front tire cupping will not get any worse.
Chalk this one up to too much trust in my tire pump's gauge. I will be double- and triple-checking my psi's from now on.
Bottom line - I don't think the front tire's cupping is the tire's fault. Just too much air in the tires. I should've checked it sooner.
Sorry to piggyback on the Dunlop thread again, but I wanted to share this info.
Unfortunately, i wish my concern wiht the dunlop was a tire pressure related issue in my case...i just dont think it is this time. I'd check pressures before every time I'd ride while on my trip, and the only slight adjusting I had to do was when i was up in altitude, but only by a couple lbs. Even while at home here, i do anally check pressures each time i ride.
But, I did snap some pictures yesterday while I was out touring our flooded areas of the state, lol. I was waiting to get some sunlight in the right spot so the funny wear would show up in a pic. i'll be posting those in the next couple hours....
Here's some pics of the tire in question...........[image: Posted Image] Dunlop Roadsmart after highway use
[image: Posted Image] Dunlop Roadsmart after highway use
I can understand and expect after about 3500 miles of freeway use that there could be a flat area worn in the middle, but this seems excessive.....especially for a sport/"touring" tire. The fact that it's also "raised up" from the rest of the tire is strange too...
I don't think I've ever seen a tire that looked like that. I wonder if you contacted Dunlop if they would do anything for you? I don't think that is normal wear.
I just emailed the pics to my dealer where I bought them, as the set they sold me was the first set they've sold. Not to complain to them, but just for their info....
Maybe from there something could be forwarded to Dunlop if they see fit.
I have a set on my ride and no cupping (didn't see any cupping in that picture). I have about 1000 miles on them and will be heading out to the grand canyon from Cali on Saturday. I will post up how the tires hold up. So far I like them. Not too bad in the twisties on my way home from work, and no flat spots just yet. I found that my tires use to cup because I would not unload the front in a turn, just let off the gas, which puts undo pressure up front. Now I make sure I give it a little bit of gas to unload the front end. Just a thought.
Yeah, i was hesitant to call this condition i have "cupping" too, but didnt know how else to describe it. The only part you could say is cupped is in a couple areas on the edge of that ridge if you look hard enough. Either way, it isnt right.
Well, as i stated earlier I forwarded those pictures to my dealer, as they were interested to see them and i wasnt able to get the bike up to them for them to physically look at. They gave me a call just now and said they want the tire back, and will work something out as far as getting me into a new tire. Probably another RoadSmart, but im going to see if they can maybe credit it towards a set of PR2's. We'll see....but it was nice of them to outright say that it clearly wasnt right and that they want me to get a new tire. As well, i would expect most dealers to give me excuses about riding style, braking, tire pressure...blah blah blah when it comes to a wear issue like this. There was none of that, which these days is impressive.
Update: The just called back after forwarding the pics to their supplier, saying to stop riding on it immediately because its clearly a case of belt separation and is considered a defect. They'll have a fresh tire for me on friday free of charge.
What I'm getting from this discussion where it's being brought up that there is definitely a difference between tire brands when it comes to resistance to cupping. Is that because of a particulat way companies like Dunlop designs their tire carcasses and the way they typically flex in hard cornering and braking?? or is it more of a rubber compound design thing??
BTW, I've been always staying with Dunlops with my bikes and through the years they all cupped very badly, specially the fronts. I'm planning to get Pilot Roads very soon to avoid this next time.
There seems to be a million different assumptions on causes of tire cupping. Low/high air pressure, hard braking, etc. These could all be true, but the consensus seems to be that Dunlops seem to, on average, cup more often than other makes, particularly Michelin. THis has been my experience as well. But i should point out, that my case here with the Roadsmart is turning out to be a belt separation issue which makes the tire a defect, so im no longer assuming that this wear condition is just another Dunlop abnormal wear issue. I'll have the replacement friday and then take note of how the new one wears.
But we dont know what causes certain tires to cup more than others. Noticing that most cupping tires coincidentally happen to be dunlops, we have to assume that it's just something with their design. But, its hard to say exactly what.
I had 5500 miles on the front with a Dunlop 208 and no cupping. I put on a Qualifier to replace it.
Hey - any tire wear comparisons of stock suspension vs upgraded?
MD
MD, Hope you don't have the same experience as I had with the front Qualifier, after 1500 miles it felt so aweful that I tossed it right in the trash! :happy: POS IMO! http://www.vfrdiscus...tyle_emoticons/default/+1.gif Maybe it was just another defective Dunlop? :wheel:
I've done a full suspension upgrade of both valving & springs and noticed no gain in tire wear over 30,000 plus miles of testing! http://www.vfrdiscus...tyle_emoticons/default/sad.gif
Well, the new tire will be here friday, and hopefully i'll have it put on early next week at the latest.
It actually makes me feel better that this is a defect, and not just how i should expect the Roadsmart to handle freeway miles. Every tire manufacturer has its defects, so im gonna take it easy on dunlop for now.....I did love the tires until this popped up. I'll get the replacement and see how it does over the course of some more mileage. Any signs of poor wear or cupping....it's back to Michelin; i'll pay the extra money from now on, thank you.
Yes....the stacks being in the wrong spots caused uneven weight distribution to the front.....thats why they want the taller ones in back; they're more towards the center of the bike.
Ahhh....I knew id figure it out!
Yep, Honda sure is precise with their engineering and wieght placement.
Well, on friday the dealer called saying my replacement tire was in, and that they're covering it under warranty as they feel that it is a separation issue, after seeing the pics. But upon dropping the wheel off saturday morning, I dealt with a different guy in the service dept, who says "well that's obviously a tire pressure issue....i dont see how they're going to warranty that." Since I was waiting for the tire pressure B.S. excuse to come up at some point from somebody, I immediately made it known that the pressure was kept at spec, as I check pressures almost every time I ride. His answer was then, "well you're gauge is probably off....I see that all the time." Now, beginning to get upset, i stated how at my business I have three different digital pressure gauges and they all indicate roughly the same pressures compared to each other; I use them every day, and that all three of them must be off then.
We went back and forth, with me ultimately just saying "listen....you tell me the pressure that you fill the tire to when you mount the new one, and i'll take it directly back to the shop and check it with my gauge so we can see how "far off" mine is.
Well, if mine is off then his is too, since he told me he filled it to 36 lbs, and mine read 36.2.
On a more positive note though, after mounting the fresh tire, I did take the bike out for about a 700 mile ride for the rest of the weekend, with part of the miles being highway and the other half twisties. The bike felt right again, and I still like these tires as far as handling goes. Granted it was only 700 miles so far, but the front is showing no signs at all of poor wear. Hopefully it was just a defect, because other than the wear issue of the last one, Id like to buy these tires again especially considering the price.
I just got back from the grand canyon run an have about 2500 miles on them, and no cupping. So far I am happy with these tires. Not much twisty riding to speak of, but loads and loads of boring highway mileage. I am amazed at the very slight flattening in the center when considering how much freeway riding they had on them. I will update when this tire is toast.
Here's some pics of the tire in question...........[image: Posted Image] Dunlop Roadsmart after highway use
[image: Posted Image] Dunlop Roadsmart after highway use
I can understand and expect after about 3500 miles of freeway use that there could be a flat area worn in the middle, but this seems excessive.....especially for a sport/"touring" tire. The fact that it's also "raised up" from the rest of the tire is strange too...
my front pilot power looked just like that after 3000 miles
I'm new on the board here. A board member here and a great buddy of mine (snake) called this tire problem to my attention, since I had bought a set of Raodsmarts for my 2005 ZRX1200 Kawasaki. At just over 2k on the front last month, mine looks very similar to your front, but just not as pronounced yet with mine being a bit lower on mileage. Always kept at 36psi with a certified gauge. I bought mine from SWMoto tire online, and I have emailed them for assistance on the subject. I may not get as lucky as you, but I am going to buy a different front next week as snake and I are going to do about 2k vacationing in Arkansas.
I too was hoping for a longer lived tire, but I guess I'll go back to the Avon Storms.
I just finished a real world test of tires with the following results: 1st Place: Michelin Pilot Road 2's. Second Place: Dunlop RoadSmarts, Third Place: Avon Storms and Last Place: Pirelli Diablo Rosso.
Here's how it went down. Three amigos and I left Louisiana in late May for the WSB races at Salt Lake City, then Yellowstone, Black Hills, NE, KS, AR and home. A 4,600 mile round trip. All had new tires mounted a week before the trip.
The Michelins were mounted on an 08 Concours 14. Dunlops on my 05 VFR. Avons on a BMW R1200RT and Pirellis on a BMW K1200R. The Concours was ridden two-up for half the trip with the riders wife flying into SLC and joining up for the return trip. He carried the heaviest load for the entire trip. Everyone else just carried a normal touring load for a two week trip. Speeds on the trip were fairly elevated, especially out west. We would sometimes ride at between 80-90 mph on deserted stretches of road from tank to tank. Temperatures for the most part were on the cool side at around 65-70 degrees.
All the riders reported good handling from all the tires in the dry. In the wet, the Concours rider and the 1200RT rider reported a few problems including a couple of tank slappers, this of course could be attributed to many other factors, load, suspension settings etc. I can report the Dunlops worked great in both dry and wet conditions.
When we arrived back in Louisiana, the Pirelli's were absolutely shot, with steel belt visible. The Avon's showed a few wear bars. The Dunlops had one wear bar barely visible and the Michelins had no wear bars showing. No cupping on the front Dunlop BTW.
Due to cost, I think I'll stay with the RoadSmarts for a while. Riding in the south-central or easten part of the country I should get another thousand or so out of the tires at the lower average speeds. The PR 2's however were very impresssive. If cost were no object, I would definately go with the Michelin.
My first thought upon seeing the odd wear pattern was that the softer compound on the outside just wore away much faster that the harder center portion. My conclusion, the hardness ratio (durability vs. traction) is too great between the two compounds.
That's got to feel real weird turning with that front tire. If you lean angle is just right, you would be riding on the corner of the raised ridge.
I just got back from a 5600km ride to Deals Gap on a set of PR2s and LOVED them. I'm with Baileyrock on this one, until there is something better, it's nothing but PR2s for me.
My first thought upon seeing the odd wear pattern was that the softer compound on the outside just wore away much faster that the harder center portion. My conclusion, the hardness ratio (durability vs. traction) is too great between the two compounds.
That's got to feel real weird turning with that front tire. If you lean angle is just right, you would be riding on the corner of the raised ridge.
I just got back from a 5600km ride to Deals Gap on a set of PR2s and LOVED them. I'm with Baileyrock on this one, until there is something better, it's nothing but PR2s for me.
Brian
that sounds about right, especially if your a trail braker , youl wear the sides of you front tire more, if the compound is softer on the sides, it will accelerate the difference. Thats why I dont run the PPOWER 2ct, and run the standard PPower cause of that reason.
I have two trips in California planned for my Roadsmarts but no fellow VFR on PR2s to compare with ..................the best faceoff I figure. We will see how they do!
that sounds about right, especially if your a trail braker , youl wear the sides of you front tire more, if the compound is softer on the sides, it will accelerate the difference. Thats why I dont run the PPOWER 2ct, and run the standard PPower cause of that reason.
When I brake, I do trail break and here's my Road 2 front at 4240 miles. It's to the wear bars on the sides, but not yet there in the center. [image: Posted Image]
That tire had internal belt separation not caused by tire pressure! I have had the DuD Lop Qualifiers on my 97 and besides a cheap track tire not worth much for a lasting street tire.
Update: The just called back after forwarding the pics to their supplier, saying to stop riding on it immediately because its clearly a case of belt separation and is considered a defect. They'll have a fresh tire for me on friday free of charge.
Thanks for providing updates with your RoadSmart experiences. The separation on your front tire didn't look good. I wouldn't want to experience the same. I had Dunlops on my 4th gen before, and the front cupped as it wore down. I thought Dunlop would try to engineer a better tire with the RoadSmart, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Comparing w/ Michelin PRs, there was only $20 difference between sets. I went to have my 6th gen shod over the weekend and wound up going w/ PRs. Replaced the OEM BT020s which still had about another 2k if i ground them into the wear bars.
Update: The just called back after forwarding the pics to their supplier, saying to stop riding on it immediately because its clearly a case of belt separation and is considered a defect. They'll have a fresh tire for me on friday free of charge.
Thanks for providing updates with your RoadSmart experiences. The separation on your front tire didn't look good. I wouldn't want to experience the same. I had Dunlops on my 4th gen before, and the front cupped as it wore down. I thought Dunlop would try to engineer a better tire with the RoadSmart, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Comparing w/ Michelin PRs, there was only $20 difference between sets. I went to have my 6th gen shod over the weekend and wound up going w/ PRs. Replaced the OEM BT020s which still had about another 2k if i ground them into the wear bars.
I hope you got the PR2CTs! I just tested my new ones in the twisties yesterday and they are fantastic. Totally transformed my 4th gen bike to something you I can really enjoy and feel confident in the mountains. I felt like I was on rails yesterday up there! I don't think I'll ever consider Dunlops again after this. Along with all the cupping that I had suffered through the years with their tires, they just handled really bad in comparison. I also had better experiences with Metzeler in the past.
Im presently at about 1500 miles on the new front, with no signs of any similar abnormal wear like the last one, and besides the dreaded possibility of the famous dunlop cupping that may develop, im pretty confident i wont see a wear pattern like the last one had again.
I do agree that it was likely a separation issue and not just simply cupping. In dunlops defense, any tire can develop a tread separation...its just something that is either present as a defect from day one, or can happen from an impact of some sort on the road. Either one is a possiblity in my case. So if it was just a defect, then im not worried about it....all tire manufacturers have their defects. Im actually happy to learn it was a defect as opposed to it just being characteristic of the tire, which im learning that its not. If that's the case and this next front tire ends up wearing well, then Id actually have no problems purchasing this particular dunlop model again. I do find the handling acceptable, and the rate of wear seems to be great. Its looking like I'll get about 7k miles or so out of the rear tire, which is about what i got with the PR's previously.
So for the time being im being especially anal about my tire pressures just so I can really accurately evaluate the replacement front tire's performance and wear. But at this point its looking ok.
Update: The just called back after forwarding the pics to their supplier, saying to stop riding on it immediately because its clearly a case of belt separation and is considered a defect. They'll have a fresh tire for me on friday free of charge.
Thanks for providing updates with your RoadSmart experiences. The separation on your front tire didn't look good. I wouldn't want to experience the same. I had Dunlops on my 4th gen before, and the front cupped as it wore down. I thought Dunlop would try to engineer a better tire with the RoadSmart, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Comparing w/ Michelin PRs, there was only $20 difference between sets. I went to have my 6th gen shod over the weekend and wound up going w/ PRs. Replaced the OEM BT020s which still had about another 2k if i ground them into the wear bars.
Hey Michael, shayne here, getting the RoadSmarts put on the bike either tomorrow or Thursday, gonna take a SLOW ride up to Big Bear either Friday or Saturday morning. Let me know if you want to go with, gonna stop at Neo's for a big ole' burger...
ps. got the RoadSmarts at cost...
sick huh. I guess I can part with $156 mounted and balanced...
Adam, I think Michelin xrays every tire before shipping to try and catch defects in manufacturing. :laugh:
I'll get about 7k miles or so out of the rear tire, which is about what i got with the PR's previously.
Were you running the original Pilot Road? Boy I thought those things sucked!!! Wouldn't take much to improve on those even with a Dunlop! :idea3: The Road 2's are fantastic tire and are Nothing like the old tire!
Yeah, my last two sets were the original PR's. They worked well for me....but a good percentage of my riding around here is only limited twisties, and not usually the type you can push hard due to gravel, etc. If I were in an area where I could push the tires more, I probably wouldve noticed its shortcomings. But from a mileage and wear quality standpoint (which is how I judge my tire experiences around here), the original PR's always wore even for me, rain performance was good, and they seemed to last long enough for me. However the rear Roadsmart looks like it'll go about 7500 miles or maybe more; i'll find out in the next week or two. The front replacement dunlop seems to be wearing well so far at this point.
Judging by the car business and automotive tires, Ive seen just about every manufacturer have its defects, and with tires sometimes that defect doesnt become apparent for many many miles. Michelins got em too, although even with automotive applications they are one of the better ones from what Ive seen. But with Michelin, you do pay more $$ for it. But with all this, keep in mind that sometimes a separation can come from a bad bump or impact of some sort out on the road, which even couldve been the case with mine. That ride in and to CO took me through various different types of roads, construction, etc. I do remember hitting a couple bad ones.
I was at my dealer for a bit last night, inquiring about having them order me a fresh rear Roadsmart, as mine should be worn out by the end of the month likely. In talking to the original guy i bought the tires from, i asked him if he had any trouble sending my front tire in under warranty, because the dude in service was saying they wouldnt take it most likely beecause of "me neglecting the tire pressure".
His reply was "of course they took it back.....Dunlop's been having tons of problems with those things...."
I was at my dealer for a bit last night, inquiring about having them order me a fresh rear Roadsmart, as mine should be worn out by the end of the month likely. In talking to the original guy i bought the tires from, i asked him if he had any trouble sending my front tire in under warranty, because the dude in service was saying they wouldnt take it most likely beecause of "me neglecting the tire pressure".
His reply was "of course they took it back.....Dunlop's been having tons of problems with those things...."
A-
Who's your dealer? Im just south of you and my local dealers prices are way higher than you paid. Thanks.
Im in Cedarburg, and Cedar Creek Motorsports is who I use. Since they caught onto everyone buying their tires online and just using them for the mounting and balancing, they changed their pricing on tires so they can make the tire sale even if their profit is lower. As a dealer in general they're so-so, but for what i use them for (tires, misc parts, etc), theyve been good. I always bring my wheels in to have them mounted. But I know they charge the same either on or off the bike for mounting/balancing.
The guy i usually talk to in the parts department said that they get better pricing on average on Dunlops, so they've got a bit more room to move on price. But also, he gave me a price on the Bridgestone 021's last night since we were talkin about tires. $195 for the pair, which I felt was super reasonable especially for a dealer.
If you were to buy tires from them, give Corey a call in the parts dept, and tell him Adam told you to call. He's the one i always deal with.
Well, I've just put about 500 miles on my RoadSmarts, front and rear, and I'm rather impressed by them. Only second set of tires, first were the stock battleax, the RoadSmarts seemed to grip better on the twisties, but found an odd shake when transitioning quickly from left to right and vice versa... Almost as if the middle was too hard and unsettled the bike. I've got my suspension set a little tighter than norm, and I'm sure that it was just me being overly cautious, but after reading the posts here and seeing those unsettling images I'll definetly keep an eye on wear...
Yeah, i like the tires overall too. I didnt want this thread to come across like the problem i had was something to be expected of these tires, especially since it did end up being just basically a defect....which can end up happening with any tire. The only thing that'll be interesting to watch as others put more miles on these is if any more issues do come up. I only say that now, just because my parts guy seemed to indicate that Dunlop has had issues already wiht these. Not sure what kind of issues though. My replacement tire with about 1500 miles on it is doing very well so far, so im thinking my last one was in fact an isolated defect. But learning the indications lately that maybe issues like this arent so isolated has me checking the tires condition more closely and more often. But at this point, i cant complain with the current one im running...
Well, in my last post I apparently spoke too soon. Now having maybe 1700 miles on the replacement front tire, i noticed yesterday that it's beginning to slightly do the same thing. its not as noticable yet as in my initial pics and post, but the tire doesnt have as many miles on it yet either. Im going to ohio friday for the homecoming, and me and the dealer are working on what we can obtain quickly as far as a replacement. My dealer has already ruled out the dunlops obviously.
Since this tire has been installed, ive been even more anal about keeping the pressures at 36/42 daily. My riding has been about 60% straight roads and the rest twisties.
We're looking at BT021's or Pilot Road 2's. Im just looking for something with mileage capability. It might depend on what they can get me the quickest, considering im leaving thursday night...
Try the Michelin Pilot Road 2's, you won't be disappointed! :fing02:
For people who live in the twisties I suggest the Road 2 rear w/ PP front! :biggrin:
Thanks BR. Yeah, that's what im hoping for, but for the moment im kind of at the mercy on which ones we can get sooner for my trip this weekend. He quoted me a price of $180 for the Bridgestones believe it or not, lol. But, i told him to keep looking just to see what the Michelins will run me, and that that's what Id prefer. I should be hearing back shortly...
[image: View Post]Adam30, on Jul 21 2008, 10:35 AM, said:
Thanks BR. Yeah, that's what im hoping for, but for the moment im kind of at the mercy on which ones we can get sooner for my trip this weekend. He quoted me a price of $180 for the Bridgestones believe it or not, lol. But, i told him to keep looking just to see what the Michelins will run me, and that that's what Id prefer. I should be hearing back shortly...
I think you would be looking at $280 for the PR 2's, but if your not happy and have to change them out more often what's the benefit of cheap tires? :rolleyes:
That's the BT021. He showed me an employees CBR who put them on just before his ride to Vegas and back, and it is astounding how well they wore, and whats still left on them. But, i still have mixed feelings about them. Im really wanting the michelins; i dont feel like "trying" anything else that I dont know i'll be totally happy with.....like the dunlops. My dealer has changed their philosophy on tire sales; they're selling cheap so they can just get the tire business as opposed to people buying online. Works for me. So, i'm awaiting the price on the michelins here shortly. And keep in mind too, is that i'll only be paying for the rear tire, as the front will be credited as they're going to try and warranty my current one...
[image: View Post]Adam30, on Jul 21 2008, 10:49 AM, said:
That's the BT021. He showed me an employees CBR who put them on just before his ride to Vegas and back, and it is astounding how well they wore, and whats still left on them. But, i still have mixed feelings about them. Im really wanting the michelins; i dont feel like "trying" anything else that I dont know i'll be totally happy with.....like the dunlops. My dealer has changed their philosophy on tire sales; they're selling cheap so they can just get the tire business as opposed to people buying online. Works for me. So, i'm awaiting the price on the michelins here shortly. And keep in mind too, is that i'll only be paying for the rear tire, as the front will be credited as they're going to try and warranty my current one...
skip the front Bt IMO
The Ppower front with either a BT21 rear or Proad2 rear is an very good performance package, the BT21 rear will exceed the z6 or strada rear in tire life, with a large gain in handling.
Presently I have 2,000 mile on a Proad2 rear, its wearing very nice and I've done alot of staightline on it too, the BT21 (rear) is a quicker turning tire though than the proad2, also absorbs bumps better.
I'll probably go back to a Bt21 rear to verify the differences. But the Proad 2 might very well outdo the Bt21 on life, the wear rate seems outstanding thus far.
I avoid Dunlops with a passion due to past experience. I've hat two similar experiences with them (two different bikes) where the grip just suddenly went away during a fairly brisk ride, causing a nasty lowside.
Never had that problem with either Michelins or Pirellis.
I'd rather have stick than mileage.
Before I get my '93 VFR750 registered in my name I have to get rid of the original (yes, the made in 1992 ones!) Bridgestones replaced. A couple of tyre places had mentioned the Roadsmarts, but I have ordered a new set of Michelin PR2s only because they are already a proven thing.
The dealers pushing the Dunlops were all saying the same thing here though, that the initial reports were good but nobody in OZ has been doing enough k's to know what they are like down the track.
I think that's part of the issue, is I think that many others who are reporting no issues with their Roadsmarts simply maybe dont have the mileage yet to see any issues. I doubt that ALL of them will have front wearing issues, but now that Ive got about 6k miles on between my last front and this one, I might just happen to be noticing it a little quicker and sooner.
Itll be interesting to watch over the next couple months in anything comes up with anyone elses. But I do remember my dealer guy saying that either their supplier or Dunlop themselves did say they were having issues with these...
Just put about 2,000 loaded tour miles on my Roadsmarts basically replicating a tour I did last year on fresh BT21s. I now have about 2,600 total miles on the Roadsmarts. Here are my observations compared to my most recent tire the BT21:
Don't seem as comfortable or as quick to turn in as the new Stones.
No problems with grip but I was not hauling ass either most of the time. The Lops seemed very stable at speed and were consistent ie no radical change in turn in etc when you tightened up mid corner.
Tires appear to be holding up well. The rear has lost about a third of the OEM depth so I project mileage maybe as high as 6k, which would equal my PRoad record on the rear. Have not measured the front tread depth yet. I was very disappointed with front BT21 mileage .........the rear Stone.........rrrrrrr was about average for me at 5k.
[image: View Post]ULEWZ, on Jun 26 2008, 09:17 PM, said:
I just got back from the grand canyon run an have about 2500 miles on them, and no cupping. So far I am happy with these tires. Not much twisty riding to speak of, but loads and loads of boring highway mileage. I am amazed at the very slight flattening in the center when considering how much freeway riding they had on them. I will update when this tire is toast.
Good to see you back around here ULEWZ! I still credit you with my best overall mod of suggesting the addition of a National Cycle $15 touring windscreen on my VFR probably 5 years ago now. Thanks for your update as well. I've had great luck with 3 sets of 220s with a mix of commuting and twisties. However, my original 204s cupped so much, they felt like knobbies when I would ride into my garage on the super smooth cement and I had one set of 208s that Dunlop replaced free of charge after I only got 2000 miles out of them. - Well, at least they didn't cup at all. Since the 220s are history and I'm leaving soon for a loonnng trip, I am mounting the Roadsmarts on Sept. 11th. If the winter will hold off for me, I am leaving the Denver area headed to Glacier National Park in upper Montana, turning west to the Seattle area, then south to Portland, Oregon and returning to Colorado across Idaho and down into Utah. I'll be on the the move every day for 10 days with a BMW R1150R and a VTX 1800. Should have a mix of slab and twisties. I'll post up with a champ/chump report on the Roadsmarts after I return.
Roadsmart update....The trip was rerouted for a loop from the Denver area up to the ferry to Washington Island in Wisconsin with a serious amount of pin-balling all over on the place and staying on county two laners the whole trip. The BMW R 1150 R also bailed on us so it was my '97 VFR and an '04 VTX 1800 and no particular place to be at any certain time. WOW! What a way to travel! Over all - great trip with no complications.
Now for the Dunlop Roadsmarts........ACK!!! I had the same issues as Adam30 and Dunlop has instructed me to return them to the dealer where I purchased them for an evaluation. That will take place tomorrow with crossed fingers. :mad:
ROADSMART UPDATE I got the dealership to replace my front that had worn so crazily. They did charge me $25 for the remount but I guess that was OK since I had put about 3300 miles on the tires in six weeks. Now, I just hope that this one doesn't pull a repeat performance. There DO seem to be some reasonable reviews on these tires by other board members. My only worry is that I know with winter coming on, I won't get the miles up as quickly and won't find out the end of this story until mid summer next year. I have had great results with Dunlop over the years but I'm headed for the Bridgestone camp if I see another raised contact patch out of these.
[image: View Post]The mailman, on Oct 30 2008, 01:40 AM, said:
ROADSMART UPDATE I got the dealership to replace my front that had worn so crazily. They did charge me $25 for the remount but I guess that was OK since I had put about 3300 miles on the tires in six weeks. Now, I just hope that this one doesn't pull a repeat performance. There DO seem to be some reasonable reviews on these tires by other board members. My only worry is that I know with winter coming on, I won't get the miles up as quickly and won't find out the end of this story until mid summer next year. I have had great results with Dunlop over the years but I'm headed for the Bridgestone camp if I see another raised contact patch out of these.
Cant say I dont blame you.. That raised center tread must have made for some VERY Interesting riding :lurk:
It didn't want to turn at first and then when it did, it felt like a chopper. It wanted to flop completely left or right all the way to the lock. On top of crazy steering, I didn't really trust it at highway speeds because I didn't know what was going on internally. YIKES!!! Glad to get it off the VFR.
Can you explain to me what is going on with the pictures there? It almost looks like an exagerated case of what happened to my front tire. I have Roadsmarts, too, and I noticed it was getting a flat spot in the center of the tire (i presumed from all the highway riding i was doing), but it had an almost wavy depth to the tread wear in that spot (as in the wear was uneven). I checked the tire pressure with a different gauge than what i'd been using and found that i'd been over inflating the tire 4-5psi. I checked with a third gauge to confirm this. After adjusting the tire pressure and adding more miles, the wear has evened out. I'm almost up to 6000 miles on my set of roadsmarts. I used the incorrect gauge the entire time i ran a set of BT-021s as well, and they ended up with slight odd front wear as well. Just suggesting if that is what you saw, you might want to check your tire pressure.
Just for grins, when I went back to the dealership to take the front wheel to them I also took my dial gauge with me to compare to the shop's gauge, whatever they may be using. Mine was dead on 36 psi. One of the techs came out with TWO of their dial gauges and one said 36, the other said 35. Chain maintenance and tire pressure are two of my "anal issues". I always have my gauge and a small can of chain lube in my tank bag. However, I was interested to find out whether my gauge was accurate or just fancy and expensive. It turns out it's all three.
As for the wear, I have flat spotted tires before due to some extended trips on straight highways but the flat area "ate" down into the round cross section of those tires. This tire's flat area on the cross section of the tire was raised ABOVE the normal rounded profile. Just imagine glueing a flexible yardstick to the outer perimeter of your front tire and trying to ride with confidence.
Scenario 1: The side compound (the softer one) is just too soft in relation to the center section so it is wearing too fast. There is also probably a secondary effect that is causing the rubber right at the junction of the two to wear even quicker, resulting in what appears as a raised ridge. I don't think it is really raised, rather the soft rubber is not keeping its round profile, instead the tire is turning into a trapezoid cross section.
Scenario 2: The rubber in the center section is actually 'flowing' under heat and pressure. In which case I would say YIKES!
I saw a similar, but much less severe effect with my BT-021s. The resulting 'weird turn-in' was really annoying, enough that I will not put BT021s in the front again. The rears wore well though.
The 'dual compound' technology is still in development. Michelin seems to have the right balance and they know it. That explains the higher price they command.
I burning through a set of PR1s already, with no real complaints. I'm staying away from dual compounds for a while, trying Z6 now, but not enough mileage to comment yet.
I'll just keep post whoring for a bit here. When I took the tire back, Dunlop asked for a tread depth measurement across a cross section of the tire from one side wall to the other. If you cut the tire in half, looked at the cross section of the tire, and call the left bead 9 o'clock and the right bead 3 o'clock, Dunlop wanted tread depth at 10, 11, 12 1, and 2 o'clock . The readings at 10, 11, 1, and 2 o'clock were almost exactly the same as new. The 12 o'clock reading was less than half of new depth. This showed that the sides never touched down and the tire was only riding on the visibly raised flat area. I had thought possibly as did DDO-VFR that the softer side rubber had just worn faster than the hard rubber in the center until I saw those measurements. It is just as if a 1 inch band of tread rose up and I was just wearing that portion of tread.
I am having the same issue, a raised center on the front and somewhat on the rear, I think it is a steel belt that is contracting, mine is not as bad as your photos, but gettin that way, I am around 4k, very disappointed.
End of thread · 76 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 25 Feb 2013
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