Vtec Valve Service Report

I had my valves checked last month at 37k miles. I didn't have any complaints about the performance of the engine, but I wanted to have the valves checked anyway. I took it to my local dealership, and they had their best technician do the work. Believe it or not, it was their first VTEC valve service. They cried a little bit about how difficult the service was and said they didn't charge me enough, but the tech did an outstanding job. Three lifters were replaced.

The engine is much smoother all through the RPM range. The occasional hiccup at VTEC transition is GONE! There is a noticeable power increase there, especially at higher rates of acceleration, but no stumble, period. The transition is not noticeable at all at less aggressive rates of acceleration. Including a new air filter, the service was $678. $395 of that was labor (5 hours @ $79 per). It was a large chunk of dough to shell out, but these valves will probably never need another adjustment. A good thing, because they'll charge a lot more next time. ;)

I made sure to go in a couple weeks later to tell the tech and svc. manager how happy I was with the service. I did the same thing two years ago when they replaced my thermostat under warranty. The tech that did that service still speaks to me every time I go in.

The shop that did the service is Diamond Motor Sports in Camden, DE.

Amazing that a shop actually did the work correctly (which they did if they replaced valve lifters).

I would venture a guess that the performance improvement you have experienced is due more to the new air filter than the valve adjustment though :unsure:

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Jun 16 2008, 10:33 AM, said:

Amazing that a shop actually did the work correctly (which they did if they replaced valve lifters).

I would venture a guess that the performance improvement you have experienced is due more to the new air filter than the valve adjustment though :unsure:

Interesting theory, but that's not my first new air filter. The bike runs better now than it ever has. It's that noticeable. :cool:

If you already needed 3 lifters replaced at 37,000 miles, why do you assume you won't need another adjustment. I would be disappointed at needing lifters so soon......... :unsure:

Brian - who did your work? I'm in central DE, and am gonna look at a VFR this coming weekend, I hope.

I had my 1st valve check done over the winter. All valves were within spec, but I could swear the bike ran a little better afterward. Of course, that could have just been the product of me not having ridden for a month while the bike was at the shop, but who knows.

BTW, they had the bike done sooner - it's not like it took them a month to service my bike (valve check and several other items). I told them I wasn't in a hurry for it. And once it was done I just couldn't get there to pick it up - plus we had lousy weather for a couple weeks.

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on Jun 16 2008, 10:47 AM, said:

If you already needed 3 lifters replaced at 37,000 miles, why do you assume you won't need another adjustment. I would be disappointed at needing lifters so soon......... :unsure:

Good question. I should have said that it probably won't need another adjustment while I own it. That's just my wishful thinking about getting another bike before another four years is up.

[image: View Post]Macs06VFR, on Jun 16 2008, 10:49 AM, said:

Brian - who did your work? I'm in central DE, and am gonna look at a VFR this coming weekend, I hope.

Diamond Motor Sports. At the end of my original post...

7K Rush, I knew it was DMS (been there, good place, no real complaints), I was wondering who the specific mechanic was. Thanks.

[image: View Post]Battleax, on Jun 16 2008, 12:20 PM, said:

Unless a valve clearance had closed enough to actually hold a valve open (extremely unlikely) it would be impossible to have a noticeable performance improvement in operation. There's just no way a .001 - .004 difference in a valve clearance would effect the engine.

Actually that is some of what "Blueprinting" an engine is, having each cylinder doing/making exactly the same amount of power/ efficiency as it can make a Very noticeable difference in how a engine performs. NOT that that is what Honda techs do with an valve adjustment! :rolleyes: If you could pick up just .004 of lift on every cylinder and have it be balanced you would surely feel the difference.

In general I agree with you assessment, and in fact I would suggest that most bikes will actually loose power with a valve adjustment (other then any balancing effect that might occur) because you will almost always be Loosing valve lift. :rolleyes:
When a valve gets tight(normal wear) what does it do, it lessens the gap between full lift based on the cam profile. By adjusting this gap(increasing) you are actually loosing valve lift by that amount of adjustment.
ie: lets say our VFR's have .300 lift on the cam lobs and lets use a valve value of .002(tight), this gives you a max lift of .298 (.300 lift - .002 gap). Now lets set all the valves at max. spec value, lets say .008. Now your max possible lift is only .292 and on 8 valves that's .048 of less Air/fuel charge every rpm. :huh: That's a sizable and noticeable difference for sure!
Of course the bigger gap would lesson valve overlap which could make the engine more efficient at lower rpms resulting in better feel! ;p This is where true Variable Cam timing is coming into it's own improving both power & efficiency( unlike out VFR's Vtec system) :dry:
At least that's my $.02 :fing02:

There is not a thing wrong with having to have three valves adjusted after 37K miles. No need to be disappointed in that engine performance.

I have never owned an engine of any kind that did not need valve adjustments, other than hydraulic lifter engines, over the course of the engine�s lifetime. The Bucket or shims are part of routine maintenance and the only way to adjust the Honda valves.

[image: View Post]Macs06VFR, on Jun 16 2008, 01:55 PM, said:

7K Rush, I knew it was DMS (been there, good place, no real complaints), I was wondering who the specific mechanic was. Thanks.

His name is Kim. :huh: Nice guy. He was recommended by owner of a local, independent shop (Speedwerks), who I have a good relationship with, because he is good at what he does.

What I noticed most was not necessarily more power, but a smoother running engine and smoother VTEC transition. These are the kinds of things I would hope to gain from a proper valve adjustment. Like Baileyrock said, balance makes a difference. That's how my engine feels now - even more than when it was new. :wub:

I don't know everything about engines, and I realize none of you know me :ph34r: , but I am a car and motorcycle enthusiast. I fix things. On other discussion boards I go by Derelict F!xer because I seem to find old vehicles (or they find me) to bring back to life. Like my 914, which I have rescued from a certain, rusty death. And my girlfriend's 190E, which was neglected and unappreciated by the previous owners, is now a daily driver because I've spent some quality time with it. :biggrin: What I'm trying to say is that I know my vehicles. I listen to them, and I can feel differences in the way things operate.

I love my VFR, and just wanted to share with everyone how happy I am with how it's performing now. I dreamed of owning this bike for 15 years before I bought it in 2004. Thanks to all for your replies. :beer:

I just got my first valve check done at 32K miles. I went in to make an appointment at the local Honda/Kawa shop (Honda West here in Fort Worth), and the service manager was setting me up and asked what kind of bike it was. "'04 VFR." He gets a pained look on his face: "Oh boy, that's a VTEC engine, right? I've heard stores about those..." He called in their head mechanic and went over what would be done with me, broke out the service manual and verified that they had all the necessary tools (they actually didn't, but they ordered them so that they would be there for my appt), and quoted me 6 hrs labor at $75 per, plus parts ($7 apiece for shims, + incidentals). They'd never done one before, but assured me that they would take their time and get it right.

Dropped it off Wednesday morning, picked it up Thursday afternoon. I asked the mechanic how many valves required adjusting, and he said that he was amazed when he measured the clearances... not only was every valve in spec, but they were all practially dead center, or close enough to not make a difference. This after 32,000 miles of riding including a half dozen trackdays and alot of sport riding... ie, lots of high-RPM time. Total cost for the service came to $520. I thanked the mechanic and told him I'd probably see him again at 64K, and he shrugged and said, "Y'know, with that engine... I might not even bother if I were you." Now it might be that he really is that confident in the engine, or maybe the job was just such a PITA that he didn't want to do it again... but either way, I'm probably going to take his advice and just not worry about it. I hope this gives some extra piece of mind to you other people who are skipping valve check intervals, too...

[image: View Post]sckego, on Aug 15 2008, 11:33 AM, said:

I just got my first valve check done at 32K miles.

I asked the mechanic how many valves required adjusting, and he said that he was amazed when he measured the clearances... not only was every valve in spec, but they were all practially dead center, or close enough to not make a difference.

Sorry,
I don't mean to be skeptical, but my faith in Dealers instantly makes me think they didn't even check them or weren't about to pull the cams(close enough). :unsure:
I hope that everything they said is all true as that would be rare in itself IMO. :rolleyes:
I've done nothing in 63k and I need to at least balance the starter valves one day soon.

Congrats on having a great bike! :fing02:

Maybe I haven't abused mine enough. If I run it harder, will the valves stay in spec? I'm with BR - hope they did everything. I'm surprised they didn't gripe a little about having to take out the cams, considering this was their first VTEC service.

Have you noticed any difference in how she runs?

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Aug 15 2008, 01:25 PM, said:

Sorry,
I don't mean to be skeptical, but my faith in Dealers instantly makes me think they didn't even check them or weren't about to pull the cams(close enough). :unsure:
I hope that everything they said is all true as that would be rare in itself IMO. :rolleyes:
I've done nothing in 63k and I need to at least balance the starter valves one day soon.

The thought did cross my mind, but I don't think so. If they were trying to rip me off, they could have easily knicked me for the cost of several shims too. When I was talking to the mechanic afterwards, he did complain (in a friendly manner) that it was a long job because of having to remove and reintstall the camshafts twice. I asked if he had any trouble, and he said no, it was just a really long job.

When I first got back on, it seemed like it was a bit smoother, but I think that was my imagination looking for things. It was perfectly nice and smooth before, and I don't think it's any different now.

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Aug 15 2008, 01:25 PM, said:

Sorry,
I don't mean to be skeptical, but my faith in Dealers instantly makes me think they didn't even check them or weren't about to pull the cams(close enough). :unsure:
I hope that everything they said is all true as that would be rare in itself IMO. :rolleyes:
I've done nothing in 63k and I need to at least balance the starter valves one day soon.

Congrats on having a great bike! :fing02:

Ya, that is why I checked mine myself. I was very tempted to not bother with checking the Vtec valves after finding every regular valve dead on, they could not have been more perfect. I made myself pull the cams and check the vtec ones; sure enough, I was not so lucky with those, I think I replaced three buckets. No big deal, other than the process of ordering and waiting for the buckets with the bike apart, for no one in my area stocks an assortment of buckets.

Wow, 3 lifters but normal valves were good?

thats odd. I still havent done mine at 43,000 plus but It's has been also running a race lead diet

I dont see doing mine unless I have to put into the shop

[image: View Post]rad, on Aug 15 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Aug 15 2008, 01:25 PM, said:

Sorry,
I don't mean to be skeptical, but my faith in Dealers instantly makes me think they didn't even check them or weren't about to pull the cams(close enough). :unsure:
I hope that everything they said is all true as that would be rare in itself IMO. :rolleyes:
I've done nothing in 63k and I need to at least balance the starter valves one day soon.

Congrats on having a great bike! :fing02:

Ya, that is why I checked mine myself. I was very tempted to not bother with checking the Vtec valves after finding every regular valve dead on, they could not have been more perfect. I made myself pull the cams and check the vtec ones; sure enough, I was not so lucky with those, I think I replaced three buckets. No big deal, other than the process of ordering and waiting for the buckets with the bike apart, for no one in my area stocks an assortment of buckets.

Same here. I did the first valve inspection at 32K. 3 vtec buckets replaced and a couple of small shim adjustments on the non vtec valves. replaced the CCTs while I was at it along with a starter synch for good measure. Great winter therapy.

[image: View Post]spud786, on Aug 15 2008, 03:28 PM, said:

Wow, 3 lifters but normal valves were good?

thats odd. I still havent done mine at 43,000 plus but It's has been also running a race lead diet

I dont see doing mine unless I have to put into the shop

I don't understand the shock. Have you never had to adjust a valve on an engine? That is why the shims and buckets are made in so many different sizes, it is a normal part of the engine life cycle. I have never experienced a site that had more people on it who prefer to whistle in the dark rather than use a flash light :goofy:


It is another strange effect of the vtec technology. If our engines had screw type adjusters this site would be full of folks obsessively getting their valve specs dead on.

I don�t care if folks don�t check their valves; just please let me know that if I ever look to buy one of your bikes used. :laugh:

[image: View Post]rad, on Aug 15 2008, 04:02 PM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on Aug 15 2008, 03:28 PM, said:

Wow, 3 lifters but normal valves were good?

thats odd. I still havent done mine at 43,000 plus but It's has been also running a race lead diet

I dont see doing mine unless I have to put into the shop

I don't understand the shock. Have you never had to adjust a valve on an engine? That is why the shims and buckets are made in so many different sizes, it is a normal part of the engine life cycle. I have never experienced a site that had more people on it who prefer to whistle in the dark rather than use a flash light :goofy:


It is another strange effect of the vtec technology. If our engines had screw type adjusters this site would be full of folks obsessively getting their valve specs dead on.

I don't care if folks don't check their valves; just please let me know that if I ever look to buy one of your bikes used. :laugh:

...like getting 3 BMW airhead riders together....obsessive carb synchers, they are... :biggrin: Me, I obsessively check that my VTEC isn't burning up electrical connections....maybe I should spend more time worrying about why my engine isn't surging. :biggrin:

[image: View Post]vtecal, on Aug 15 2008, 04:12 PM, said:

...like getting 3 BMW airhead riders together....obsessive carb synchers, they are... :biggrin: Me, I obsessively check that my VTEC isn't burning up electrical connections....maybe I should spend more time worrying about why my engine isn't surging. :biggrin:

:goofy:

I love the BMW crowd! But daymn, my decade with them, I never met so many OCD motorcycle riders :goofy:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on Jun 16 2008, 10:47 AM, said:

If you already needed 3 lifters replaced at 37,000 miles, why do you assume you won't need another adjustment. I would be disappointed at needing lifters so soon......... :unsure:


Not really. Thats the only way to adjust the vtec valves. I'm sure you know this.

If I were the tech at the dealer and any valves were off, I would replace a few shims or lifters to get all the cylinders the same.

When I adjust the valves on honda autos at work. It doesnt matter as much if the valves are a little loose or a little tight. The goal is to get them all the same and within spec. The engine defintly runs smoother if all are the same. If you feel extra power it's probably in your head.

[image: View Post]rad, on Aug 15 2008, 04:02 PM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on Aug 15 2008, 03:28 PM, said:

Wow, 3 lifters but normal valves were good?

thats odd. I still havent done mine at 43,000 plus but It's has been also running a race lead diet

I dont see doing mine unless I have to put into the shop

I don't understand the shock. Have you never had to adjust a valve on an engine? That is why the shims and buckets are made in so many different sizes, it is a normal part of the engine life cycle. I have never experienced a site that had more people on it who prefer to whistle in the dark rather than use a flash light :goofy:


It is another strange effect of the vtec technology. If our engines had screw type adjusters this site would be full of folks obsessively getting their valve specs dead on.

I don�t care if folks don�t check their valves; just please let me know that if I ever look to buy one of your bikes used. :laugh:

Yes, I have adjusted valves on eaiser motors , and those are motors much more subtible to excessive valve recession. The Vfr is just to much trouble to mess with, and not really that bad on recession anyway. The lead does aid on steel valves.

Now BRock with 60,000 on his(no check), Had some sort of issue back around the mid 50's. Skutter said the thought he may have a tight valve.


Neither one seem to be able to clarify, what was the starting issue?

Still, I'm not doin the check myself, just too much work, and I'm not paying 700 dollars, until I see a good reason to, and if one was near burning, then yeh I'd fix it and trade the bike.

I use motorcycle oil in my VFR's. Does that mean I still need to have my valves checked?..... :rolleyes:

Am I using the right oil???..... :laugh:

Have a nice weekend.....I am but I'm still going to worry a lot about VTEC...... :sleep:

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Jun 16 2008, 03:01 PM, said:

In general I agree with you assessment, and in fact I would suggest that most bikes will actually loose power with a valve adjustment (other then any balancing effect that might occur) because you will almost always be Loosing valve lift. :rolleyes:
When a valve gets tight(normal wear) what does it do, it lessens the gap between full lift based on the cam profile. By adjusting this gap(increasing) you are actually loosing valve lift by that amount of adjustment.
ie: lets say our VFR's have .300 lift on the cam lobs and lets use a valve value of .002(tight), this gives you a max lift of .298 (.300 lift - .002 gap). Now lets set all the valves at max. spec value, lets say .008. Now your max possible lift is only .292 and on 8 valves that's .048 of less Air/fuel charge every rpm. :huh: That's a sizable and noticeable difference for sure!
Of course the bigger gap would lesson valve overlap which could make the engine more efficient at lower rpms resulting in better feel! ;p This is where true Variable Cam timing is coming into it's own improving both power & efficiency( unlike out VFR's Vtec system) :dry:
At least that's my $.02 :fing02:

OTOH I have read from a variety of sources over a long period of time, even though what you said about loss of lift is true, looser valves (but still in spec) will cause less friction in an engine between the cam and the lifter and when the two conditions are balanced against each other, lift vs. cam friction, friction weighs in more and the engine with looser valves, thus less friction, will often be quicker.

That could be the reason your silver V-Tec is slower than my RED non V-Tec. I keep my valves in the center of spec at all times and we all know you run a 63,000 mile, untested, under maintained, and tight valved ready to blow engine. :goofy: ;p ;)

OMG I just know I'm gonna get a warning and maybe a black ball for that one. :(

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Aug 15 2008, 02:25 PM, said:

[image: View Post]sckego, on Aug 15 2008, 11:33 AM, said:

I just got my first valve check done at 32K miles.

I asked the mechanic how many valves required adjusting, and he said that he was amazed when he measured the clearances... not only was every valve in spec, but they were all practially dead center, or close enough to not make a difference.

Sorry,
I don't mean to be skeptical, but my faith in Dealers instantly makes me think they didn't even check them or weren't about to pull the cams(close enough). :unsure:
I hope that everything they said is all true as that would be rare in itself IMO. :rolleyes:
I've done nothing in 63k and I need to at least balance the starter valves one day soon.

Congrats on having a great bike! :fing02:

New VFR owner here,
When you guys state "32, 43, or 63K miles before a first valve adjustment"; does that include the 600 mile service? I have been debating if this service is needed. I change my own oil and basic maint. i.e. - chain, oil, etc. To not have any valves that need adjusting after 30K plus is amazing. Nearly all of my in-line fours have required adjustments between 5-12K; with my RF900F being the worse at every 4K. Does the V configuration make that much difference?

Valves aren't checked at 600miles any longer.

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Aug 15 2008, 01:25 PM, said:

I don't mean to be skeptical, but my faith in Dealers instantly makes me think they didn't even check them

I got the exact same impression when I read that bit about the dealer saying all valves were almost dead on at that mileage. The kicker was the statement that he would probably never need to bring it back! It's almost as if he was begging not to be burdened with the torture again. Hopefully for sckego's sake I'm wrong.

[image: View Post]IntAceptor, on Aug 15 2 :rolleyes: 008, 07:33 PM, said:

OTOH I have read from a variety of sources over a long period of time, even though what you said about loss of lift is true, looser valves (but still in spec) will cause less friction in an engine between the cam and the lifter and when the two conditions are balanced against each other, lift vs. cam friction, friction weighs in more and the engine with looser valves, thus less friction, will often be quicker.

That could be the reason your silver V-Tec is slower than my RED non V-Tec. I keep my valves in the center of spec at all times and we all know you run a 63,000 mile, untested, under maintained, and tight valved ready to blow engine. :goofy: ;p ;)

OMG I just know I'm gonna get a warning and maybe a black ball for that one. :(

Oh Bob,
Reading is always good, but obviously yours are of lessor authority. :rolleyes:
btw my Viffer is Black and has been for the last two years and as far as maintenance, I just check air pressures this month! ;p

41k miles. No valve adjustment and I'm a honda tech. :fing02:


Honda use to reccomend valve adjustments every 15k miles on their autos. Now it is 105k miles and adjust only if noisy. Nothing has changed to let the valves stay in spec for another 90k miles. HMMMM.

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Aug 16 2008, 09:31 AM, said:

Oh Bob,
Reading is always good, but obviously yours are of lessor authority. :rolleyes:
btw my Viffer is Black and has been for the last two years and as far as maintenance, I just check air pressures this month! ;p

At my age, short term memory is the second thing to go.