Oil Cooler Size?

I was cleaning my VFR and noticed the oil cooler looks pretty dinky...

Has anyone upgraded the oil cooler?

It may cure the high temp problem...Unless its been tried. I know on a car it can help the water temps since the two travel together, so to speak.

You should see the 5th gen cooler, it's only a 2 row vs the 3 row on your bike. Not much talk about upgrades, but it couldn't hurt! :rolleyes:

Check out Toro1's supercharger thread, he's got an automotive unit fitted on his.

So no one has actually done it? I have a spare larger cooler I might give it a try.

Just out last night in a hood practicing the starting/stopping/signal lights I hit 220 a few times...Made me think about oil cooler size after I looked at it and thought "dam that thing is small"

On a car a larger oil cooler will drop, sometimes, up to 10 degrees out ofthe engine. I know it did on my M3.

Not sure if it would make much difference in stop & go traffic. You gonna put a fan on it too?

I had an Earl's 10 row unit and new lines in my hand at one point a while back, but never went through with it.

I'd like to see some more expert feedback on this subject. Logic says this should be a no-brainer, but I'm no techie or mechanical guru.

220 is normal operating temperature. Unless you are getting up near 250 there is no problem.

If you put a big oil cooler on there it is going to take longer for the oil to heat up to operating temperature; for no benefit on a stock engine.

An RC51 oil cooler is 4 rows and could be made to fit easily enough......

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Aug 29 2008, 02:54 PM, said:

220 is normal operating temperature. Unless you are getting up near 250 there is no problem.

If you put a big oil cooler on there it is going to take longer for the oil to heat up to operating temperature; for no benefit on a stock engine.



Exactly. Lots of people seem to think they are overheating when there really is no problem. Your not overheating until the light starts blinking at around 250.

[image: View Post]soichiro, on Aug 29 2008, 04:00 PM, said:

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Aug 29 2008, 02:54 PM, said:

220 is normal operating temperature. Unless you are getting up near 250 there is no problem.

If you put a big oil cooler on there it is going to take longer for the oil to heat up to operating temperature; for no benefit on a stock engine.



Exactly. Lots of people seem to think they are overheating when there really is no problem. Your not overheating until the light starts blinking at around 250.

Yes. I agree also.

However there is another easy way to take some temp out of the engine. (I've posted this before.) I put a Scotts Performance oil filter on my bike and I believe the increased oil flow the filter allows took about 10� out of my average engine temp. The temp does still climb in slow or stopped traffic but it cools faster once you get moving again. Is this an advantage on a stock engine? Probably not. But with a PCII installed (5th gen) it may have a small benifit. The PCII uses sensor offset to fool the bike computer, and coolant temp is what they use for a control to set the fuel richness (As I understand it). If the electronics believe the bike is running cooler it will allow more fuel to the engine. And a tuner could use this to an advantage while on the dyno for a custom map. Bare in mind I'm talking about some small differences here. But more is more no matter how small.

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Aug 29 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

220 is normal operating temperature. Unless you are getting up near 250 there is no problem.

If you put a big oil cooler on there it is going to take longer for the oil to heat up to operating temperature; for no benefit on a stock engine.

I would bet honda has a thermostat on the oil cooler, or in the pump. Most cars, or anything I have seen, with coolers have thermostats normally built into the oil pump. The oil reaches X temp, the thermostat opens, cools the oil until it reaches y, then closes and repeats the cycle as needed based on temperature. Without an oil thermostat the engine oil on cool or cold days would never reach operating temps. A larger oil cooler drops the water coolent temperature since its not having to suck up as much thermal energy from the engine itself.

One reason Mfg's run higher temps these days is to speed up the catalytic converters. Most definatly do not do it for performance.

Take a BMW 335i go to the track with it, coolent hits 250 the car goes into limp home mode until it drops back down... What are the aftermarket guys doing to curb the problem...Putting large oil coolers in the cars. Oil transfers heat far better than water/glycol. A smallish oil cooler, once it reaches heat soak range, cannot blead off enough thermal energy to remain efficient. Normally shows up in the water temps.

Since I have a spare larger cooler I will give it a test :comp13: I like to work on stuff with Engines :blush:

I was just curious if anyone had tried it. Looks like the answer would be no. :biggrin:

I put a larger one on my 5th gen.

It's a 3-row unit off a 1986 750.

Stock:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a280/veefer800canuck/Oil%20cooler%20mods/840c.jpg

Mine:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a280/veefer800canuck/Oil%20cooler%20mods/ead1.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a280/veefer800canuck/Oil%20cooler%20mods/bcb7.jpg


I find it "interesting" that Honda went from a 2 row cooler on the 5th gen to a 3 row cooler on the 6th gen.

[image: View Post]GGray, on Aug 29 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Aug 29 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

220 is normal operating temperature. Unless you are getting up near 250 there is no problem.

If you put a big oil cooler on there it is going to take longer for the oil to heat up to operating temperature; for no benefit on a stock engine.

I would bet honda has a thermostat on the oil cooler, or in the pump. Most cars, or anything I have seen, with coolers have thermostats normally built into the oil pump. The oil reaches X temp, the thermostat opens, cools the oil until it reaches y, then closes and repeats the cycle as needed based on temperature. Without an oil thermostat the engine oil on cool or cold days would never reach operating temps. A larger oil cooler drops the water coolent temperature since its not having to suck up as much thermal energy from the engine itself.

One reason Mfg's run higher temps these days is to speed up the catalytic converters. Most definatly do not do it for performance.

Take a BMW 335i go to the track with it, coolent hits 250 the car goes into limp home mode until it drops back down... What are the aftermarket guys doing to curb the problem...Putting large oil coolers in the cars. Oil transfers heat far better than water/glycol. A smallish oil cooler, once it reaches heat soak range, cannot blead off enough thermal energy to remain efficient. Normally shows up in the water temps.

Since I have a spare larger cooler I will give it a test :comp13: I like to work on stuff with Engines :blush:

I was just curious if anyone had tried it. Looks like the answer would be no. :biggrin:



Very interesting. You would gain a tiny bit more capacity as well. Keep us informed.

I work on honda autos and have never seen an oil t-stat. The coolant is run thru the oil cooler. So the coolant being held by the t-stat will warm the oil quicker.

Of course on a vfr it's oil to air.

[image: View Post]soichiro, on Aug 29 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

[image: View Post]GGray, on Aug 29 2008, 04:51 PM, said:

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Aug 29 2008, 01:54 PM, said:

220 is normal operating temperature. Unless you are getting up near 250 there is no problem.

If you put a big oil cooler on there it is going to take longer for the oil to heat up to operating temperature; for no benefit on a stock engine.

I would bet honda has a thermostat on the oil cooler, or in the pump. Most cars, or anything I have seen, with coolers have thermostats normally built into the oil pump. The oil reaches X temp, the thermostat opens, cools the oil until it reaches y, then closes and repeats the cycle as needed based on temperature. Without an oil thermostat the engine oil on cool or cold days would never reach operating temps. A larger oil cooler drops the water coolent temperature since its not having to suck up as much thermal energy from the engine itself.

One reason Mfg's run higher temps these days is to speed up the catalytic converters. Most definatly do not do it for performance.

Take a BMW 335i go to the track with it, coolent hits 250 the car goes into limp home mode until it drops back down... What are the aftermarket guys doing to curb the problem...Putting large oil coolers in the cars. Oil transfers heat far better than water/glycol. A smallish oil cooler, once it reaches heat soak range, cannot blead off enough thermal energy to remain efficient. Normally shows up in the water temps.

Since I have a spare larger cooler I will give it a test :comp13: I like to work on stuff with Engines :blush:

I was just curious if anyone had tried it. Looks like the answer would be no. :biggrin:



Very interesting. You would gain a tiny bit more capacity as well. Keep us informed.

I work on honda autos and have never seen an oil t-stat. The coolant is run thru the oil cooler. So the coolant being held by the t-stat will warm the oil quicker.

Of course on a vfr it's oil to air.

Thats called the "fast and nasty" oil cooler. VW used them for years, still may. On my 85 GTI it had the same thing. The Euro GTi's had a real oil cooler and housing with T stat built in. I had one on my GTI back in the day, it was one of the cool mods to have, made a nice diffrence in temps in the summer. Of course in europe they had them becasue guys ran the GTi's down the Autobahn in 5th gear at redline :biggrin: 5th gear was pretty much 1:1 not overdrive.

My BMW car guy buddies are going to cringe when I tell them I bought a Honda with VTEC :goofy: Until they hear it!

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Aug 29 2008, 11:04 AM, said:

You should see the 5th gen cooler, it's only a 2 row vs the 3 row on your bike. Not much talk about upgrades, but it couldn't hurt! :rolleyes:

i think the move to three rows in the sixth gen was to help cool the slower hotter engine :goofy: ...........but MORE important is moving the cooler away from the engine and out away from the headers (heaters!)..............sometimes they (honda) are slow but are still learning!

[image: View Post]GGray, on Aug 29 2008, 10:57 AM, said:

I was cleaning my VFR and noticed the oil cooler looks pretty dinky...

Has anyone upgraded the oil cooler?

It may cure the high temp problem...Unless its been tried. I know on a car it can help the water temps since the two travel together, so to speak.


I replaced the one on my 3G with a slightly larger unit off of a CBR600, you can see the modified custom mount in my avatar. The fittings were the same, just the mount had two points as opposed to the single center mount on the VFR and it was both deeper and slightly wider.

actually it is pretty good size for an 800cc motor. plus it is front and center to the airflow unlike the radiators. It would be interesting to have a oil temp guage but I'd guess oil temps are not much of an issue on these bikes.

[image: View Post]balfor, on Aug 29 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

actually it is pretty good size for an 800cc motor. plus it is front and center to the airflow unlike the radiators. It would be interesting to have a oil temp guage but I'd guess oil temps are not much of an issue on these bikes.

If water is 220ish oil will be slightly higher. Hence around 250 the oil will be close to cracking 300 degrees if not cracking 300..

Per the VFR owners manual at 251 degrees the temp light comes on, manual states if it does stop the bike and let it cool off, or engine damage could occur. It's in the manual, makes me think 250 is pretty close to self destruct temps if the manual tells you to stop if the light goes on at 251.