Note the wording of the definitions for illegal exhaust systems.
"(a) Aftermarket Muffler. An exhaust system that replaces the factory installed muffler."
Its any exhaust, not just some bomb loud cruiser pipes, but any system. Also there is no noise standard for any system, so how it can/will be enforced is a good question. But it also means that you have no choice but to replace your exhaust with the overpriced (and often underdesigned) factory system. If you cannot replace it with a factory can (lets just say you have a 91 gsxr750?), then what do you do?
I'm going to cross post this on several other list/forums, but if you don't see it, please post it yourself.
mod edit
For the record, I'm not against limiting the noise of vehicles but this is only motorcycles, and it is not reasonable, its just if it is not factory it is not legal!
I believe everything should be fair. So if bikes can't have aftermarket exhausts, then neither can cars. Though I'm sure they'd gladly outlaw those megaphones all the ricers have.
This is exactly the kind of Legislation that will eventually be Nation Wide because we fail to police our own sport and tell our friends and fellow riders that their Straight Piped HD's or GP style cans or open exhaust that some of our own members build and post about right here on VFRD are not challenged. I run aftermarket cans and love the sound, but people who run and brag about "how fricken loud my bike is" or "whats the loudest exhaust made" type of attitude will kill off all our rights a they get Legislated away in response.
Like everything, if it's done in moderation it will have a much smaller impact on the entire sport. You can easily have a great sounding exhaust running below 100 db's (20 over stock), but these people who run the open or straight pipes on any bike that are 110, 115 to 130 db's are killing it for us all and if you want to keep the freedoms you have you should be putting you foot up the azz of the idiots ruining it for everyone esle.
Same thing applies to Stunting and Street Racing, if this stuff keeps happening on Main streets throughout the country we will only see more crazy Legislation removing even more freedoms we currently enjoy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pissed.gif)
If we don't police our own Sport they will do it for us, it's your choice ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
just my $.02 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
I have a nickle hat says the first person to contest this ordinance will get it overturned. How will they enforce it anyway? There are a bunch of factory pipes that are not stamped with the manufacturer's name.
RRW, Oct 8 2008, 10:41 AMI have a nickle hat says the first person to contest this ordinance will get it overturned. How will they enforce it anyway? There are a bunch of factory pipes that are not stamped with the manufacturer's name.
Easy, If I'm not mistaken every legal/factory can does have and is required to be stamped with a D.O.T. db rating and a db meter set to 90 or less will catch every modded pipe even modded stock one's.
SEBSPEED, Oct 8 2008, 10:25 AMJES, I agree with you, but as a New Yorker I gotta add that I found your reference to the twin towers a little out of whack.
Ditto. That "Twin Towers" comment was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of line.
SEBSPEED, Oct 8 2008, 10:25 AMJES, I agree with you, but as a New Yorker I gotta add that I found your reference to the twin towers a little out of whack.
Ditto. That "Twin Towers" comment was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of line.
oh what the hell dude?!?!? its bad enough that florida is feeding motorcyclists a large bowl of crap with their new laws they have in place, but now PA is following suit!? how is it legal for legislation like this to be directed straight at motorcyclists?! much less, how exactly are cops in PA supposed to be able to identify aftermarket exhausts on any bike? this one is just going to be a probable cause law thats there just to give cops an excuse to pull a bike over for "suspicion" of aftermarket exhaust. who else thinks this sounds completely retarded!?!?!
The bill was INTRODUCED 10/25/2008. That does not mean it will get passed.
A fine of $1,500 to an operator or a suspension of business license to a shop.... How can that be justified? They will end up forcing bikes to run and create a larger saftey problem.
Chris71mach1, Oct 8 2008, 12:25 PMoh what the hell dude?!?!? its bad enough that florida is feeding motorcyclists a large bowl of crap with their new laws they have in place, but now PA is following suit!? how is it legal for legislation like this to be directed straight at motorcyclists?! much less, how exactly are cops in PA supposed to be able to identify aftermarket exhausts on any bike? this one is just going to be a probable cause law thats there just to give cops an excuse to pull a bike over for "suspicion" of aftermarket exhaust. who else thinks this sounds completely retarded!?!?!
It may be crazy, but it's just an overblown response to those who are willing to run open headers or the like(see your own exhaust post). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Your own willingness to run open headers on the street is an example of why were seeing Laws like this one! (IMG:http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1223340740/gallery_2150_3564_184520.jpg) Very easy to enforce with a simple pocket size db meter, if you show over 80db when passing a check station or cruiser they pull you over and look for the required D.O.T stamp on your muffler(s) and ticket you if it's not there(aftermarket) or do another roadside test with the meter if it's a modded stock unit. No reason either wouldn't hold up in court.
SEBSPEED, Oct 8 2008, 10:25 AMJES, I agree with you, but as a New Yorker I gotta add that I found your reference to the twin towers a little out of whack.
Hi Sebastian,
Was the post edited becasue I didn't read anything referring to the Twin Towers?
SEBSPEED, Oct 8 2008, 10:25 AMJES, I agree with you, but as a New Yorker I gotta add that I found your reference to the twin towers a little out of whack.
Hi Sebastian,
Was the post edited becasue I didn't read anything referring to the Twin Towers?
SEBSPEED, Oct 8 2008, 10:25 AMJES, I agree with you, but as a New Yorker I gotta add that I found your reference to the twin towers a little out of whack.
Hi Sebastian,
Was the post edited becasue I didn't read anything referring to the Twin Towers?
Yes, I modded it.
can we drop it and move back to topic please.
BR
Considerate it dropped. So did this guy a do a "Ben Rothlensburger" before he wrote that post? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/angry.gif)
Denver alread passed this same law. I can't remember if it was tossed or not, because motorcycles were treated different than cars. It is one of the only reasons I stay a member of the AMA. The AMA is starting to take a stand on loud pipes, a weak one, but at least they are moving in the right direction.
The off road comminity knows this problem well, it has been one of the major reasons riding areas get shut down. The off road crowd has really jumped on this one and started to police their own.
I would have expected this to show up in the People's Republic of California first, but it looks like the City of Philadelphia beat us to it. I'm not holding my breath, though. I saved my heavyweight cans for this very reason.
RRW, Oct 8 2008, 05:41 PMHow will they enforce it anyway?
They can ask the Polizei how to do that as �ber loud pipes that lack a CE mark are banned in Germany for quite some time now. It is quite simple, if your bike sounds loud they will pull you over and if anything is wrong with the exhaust you will not be able to ride another yard before you have replaced it with stock can. If your exhaust is not legal (lacks the CE approval) but not too loud you will likely not have any problem. The police quite often set up "noise traps" when there are races that attract a lot of bikers.
I am with Baileyrock, loud pipes hurt motorcycling. Personally I hate them too and am quite happy that open pipes are illegal over here. Nothing against aftermaket pipes that are a bit louder than stock.
Baileyrock, Oct 8 2008, 04:36 PMThis is exactly the kind of Legislation that will eventually be Nation Wide because we fail to police our own sport and tell our friends and fellow riders that their Straight Piped HD's or GP style cans or open exhaust that some of our own members build and post about right here on VFRD are not challenged. I run aftermarket cans and love the sound, but people who run and brag about "how fricken loud my bike is" or "whats the loudest exhaust made" type of attitude will kill off all our rights a they get Legislated away in response.
Like everything, if it's done in moderation it will have a much smaller impact on the entire sport. You can easily have a great sounding exhaust running below 100 db's (20 over stock), but these people who run the open or straight pipes on any bike that are 110, 115 to 130 db's are killing it for us all and if you want to keep the freedoms you have you should be putting you foot up the azz of the idiots ruining it for everyone esle.
Same thing applies to Stunting and Street Racing, if this stuff keeps happening on Main streets throughout the country we will only see more crazy Legislation removing even more freedoms we currently enjoy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pissed.gif)
If we don't police our own Sport they will do it for us, it's your choice ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
just my $.02 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
And you know... Who is at fault? All of us of course... , provided we are all on two wheels, right? I say good for them! That said in a sarcastic tone/of course... Staintunes illegal with baffles in (no) - so take them out when riding, and place them in when getting up-to-date inspections right? Would probably eliminate some of those OBSCENE/LOUD pipes stapled onto those other rides, right? You know, frame them, get yours... I really would not mind seeing the obnoxious fart strait-cans banned, but thats just me...?? Thats my own opinion on how obsurd those pipes sound! (Can you baffle lazerz pipes for our bikes?)
Baileyrock, Oct 8 2008, 04:45 PM
RRW, Oct 8 2008, 10:41 AMI have a nickle hat says the first person to contest this ordinance will get it overturned. How will they enforce it anyway? There are a bunch of factory pipes that are not stamped with the manufacturer's name.
Easy, If I'm not mistaken every legal/factory can does have and is required to be stamped with a D.O.T. db rating and a db meter set to 90 or less will catch every modded pipe even modded stock one's.
SEBSPEED, Oct 8 2008, 06:38 PMHow 'bout a frikken helmet law instead? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/comp13.gif)
YES-MORE IMPORTANT
rad, Oct 8 2008, 09:09 PMDenver alread passed this same law. I can't remember if it was tossed or not, because motorcycles were treated different than cars. It is one of the only reasons I stay a member of the AMA. The AMA is starting to take a stand on loud pipes, a weak one, but at least they are moving in the right direction.
The off road comminity knows this problem well, it has been one of the major reasons riding areas get shut down. The off road crowd has really jumped on this one and started to police their own.
I read the thread about this on STN and it appears that Philly may have done this one ok. A quote over there states that aftermarket pipes are not forbidden, as in Denver, but rather straight pipes without baffles are. If that is true, it is not too bad of a start.
Other than the "I don't like laws restricting me from doing anything" feeling, this law has ill effects. It does NOT state you can't have an aftermarket exhaust, it says you can't have straight pipes, or an aftermarket exhaust with the baffles removed.
Note that this:
"(a) Aftermarket Muffler. An exhaust system that replaces the factory installed muffler."
is simply defining WHAT an aftermarket exhaust is, not claiming that they aren't allowed
from the doc:
(2) No individual shall operate a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle with a hollow-core muffler that is missing a baffle or straight-pipe exhaust system.
(3) No individual shall install a straight-pipe exhaust system or a hollow-core muffler without a baffle or remove a baffle from any aftermarket muffler.
As an interesting side note....no where does this bill indicate you are not allowed to simply whack the muffler off.....just don't extend the pipe!
Tightwad, Oct 8 2008, 03:45 PMAs an interesting side note....no where does this bill indicate you are not allowed to simply whack the muffler off.....just don't extend the pipe!
I think your taking the term "straight" to literately. The words appear to refer to a non-baffled exhaust system which is what you would create by whacking off the muffler; hence, illegal.
bad... bad... bad.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pissed.gif) I think legislation like this proposal is completely unfair and flawed. To restrict ANY aftermarket exhaust system is pathetic; it shows ignorance and weakness on the part of our politicians. (imagine that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) Do they really think that they can get away with an across-the-board ban like this? And, come on, a $1500 FINE? What the heck are they thinking????
With all of that said, I am not opposed to a noise ordinance limiting the decibel level to one that is reasonable. I am sick and tired of "loud pipes save lives" and the similar rebuttal's. And, I HATE getting near a bike with an abnoxiously loud exhaust. It gives me a headache and is annoying as heck. Louder does not equate to better. For me, it's quality over quantity; let me hear that sweet-throaty-sound, not some outrageous blast that you need to make you feel cool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wheel.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/squid.gif)
I would like to think that if every rider was conscientious about things like this, those in political positions wouldn't have anything to target us on. However, there are always a few bad apples that ruin the whole bushel. Even if that weren't the case, politicians would still find SOMETHING to target our motorcycle community with.
BTW... I already sent a copy of the posted link to the AMA. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif) Chances are that they already know about this; if not, they do now!
Okay... I'll step down off my soap-box/milk crate now..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
VFRiderGal, Oct 8 2008, 09:52 PMbad... bad... bad.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pissed.gif) I think legislation like this proposal is completely unfair and flawed. To restrict ANY aftermarket exhaust system is pathetic; it shows ignorance and weakness on the part of our politicians. (imagine that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) ) Do they really think that they can get away with an across-the-board ban like this? And, come on, a $1500 FINE? What the heck are they thinking????
With all of that said, I am not opposed to a noise ordinance limiting the decibel level to one that is reasonable. I am sick and tired of "loud pipes save lives" and the similar rebuttal's. And, I HATE getting near a bike with an abnoxiously loud exhaust. It gives me a headache and is annoying as heck. Louder does not equate to better. For me, it's quality over quantity; let me hear that sweet-throaty-sound, not some outrageous blast that you need to make you feel cool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wheel.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/squid.gif)
I would like to think that if every rider was conscientious about things like this, those in political positions wouldn't have anything to target us on. However, there are always a few bad apples that ruin the whole bushel. Even if that weren't the case, politicians would still find SOMETHING to target our motorcycle community with.
BTW... I already sent a copy of the posted link to the AMA. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif) Chances are that they already know about this; if not, they do now!
Okay... I'll step down off my soap-box/milk crate now..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Nowadayszzz...,
Ya jus hav 2 watch Saturday Night Live for the real News anyways...........
Sorry, but the state of affairs are questionable at best! RIGHT? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
Graduated Law school in 1982. Passed several different state bar exams. My read of the statute says: Aftermarket exhaust systems that are straight pipes or hollow core system with the baffles removed(you can see clear through from inlet to outlet) are illegal, as are any other system with the baffles removed. I am at best a libertarian and yet I really do not have a problem with the law. In NY the same type of rule applies to ALL motor vehicles - no modified exhaust - ie. no straight pipes - you must have baffles. I had a custom built HD and it had a Thunderheader on it. (Could wake the dead with its VERY DEEP tone and set off car alarms as you rode past but had factory installed baffle system) LEO's would "stick" the pipe and when the night stick stopped about 6" in they would say - "ok by me' and off I would go. You are correct that if folks would not get crazy then this would not be an issue, but just look at the lack of personal responsibilty in our society today and you find your answer. Just my $.02
BTW, I am loathe to get on any M/C without a helmet, but if I choose not to wear one in a state where that is legal I am not affecting anyone other than myself so, while I firmly advocate the use of the best helmet you can afford, I am in favor of personal choice in that and the seat belt department - yeah, I wear my seat belt all the time too - guess I crashed one too many race cars to go without.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/+1.gif) on all of the "if we don't police ourselves, they'll do it for us" replies.
If you are in a locale that has yearly inspections, there's another group to share the blame: the inspectors. Our inspectors are all motorcycle shops. Too many of them give loud pipes a wave.
As to how they can get away with it: The population-at-large is disconnected with the machinations of all levels of governance around them.
They don't care if it doesn't directly affect them, and even when it does directly affect them, they continue to refuse to hold their elected officials accountable at the voting booth.
Too many politicians rely on the silence of the majority to turn what is supposed to be public duty into lucrative careers. Political activist groups rely on the silence of the majority to allow their pet cause to continue unchecked. Some groups do have important platforms, but too many end up either caught up in the power grabs or become so myopic regarding their cause that they miss the bigger picture. I can't think of anyone who actually wants pollution (air or noise), global warming, species extinction, etc., but I've yet to hear anyone with a viable solution and too many who claim to have a solution are not consistent in their logic.
Think of it this way: At some point in the future, we'll be chiming in on how authentic that RCV211 recording that we added to our silent electric cycles sounds. Then there'll be legislation about that....
Out here on the west coast (California), we have had a modified exhaust law for quit some time. There are not too many bikes out here that don't have modified exhaust.
The vehicle code states "27151cvc Exhaust systems, modified to exceed 95 decibels (vehicles under 6000 GVWR, except motorcycles). Exhaust system, modified to amplify or increase noise (vehicles 6000 GVWR & above, and motorcycles)."
Don't panic, remain calm and be kind to the officers that stop you. They don't have to cite you unless you give them a reason. Like making refrence to the Twin Towers (major nono for popo). Once again this is going to curdle Jes's blood but most guys I work with would rather be looking for bigger fish than wasting thier time citing a biker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wheel.gif)
motorhead1977, Oct 8 2008, 05:58 PMBTW, I am loathe to get on any M/C without a helmet, but if I choose not to wear one in a state where that is legal I am not affecting anyone other than myself so, while I firmly advocate the use of the best helmet you can afford, I am in favor of personal choice in that and the seat belt department - yeah, I wear my seat belt all the time too - guess I crashed one too many race cars to go without.
There are plenty of people affected when helmets are not worn and a rider gets hurt. These people include the family and friends of the accident victim and those that may have to take care of them if they do not make a full recovery. Tax payers who are likely to have to pay for medical care. The general public who may have to pay higher health insurance premiums. Not to mention the motorcyclists who are constantly fighting a losing battle about our image.
Gap Trash, Oct 8 2008, 10:00 PMThere are plenty of people affected when helmets are not worn and a rider gets hurt. These people include the family and friends of the accident victim and those that may have to take care of them if they do not make a full recovery. Tax payers who are likely to have to pay for medical care. The general public who may have to pay higher health insurance premiums. Not to mention the motorcyclists who are constantly fighting a losing battle about our image.
That my friend is a very slippery slope you have venture out on. Using your logic you could justify not allowing people to participate in any number of risky activities for it has an impact on other people.
If you follow your $ logic, the concept can get very scary very quick regarding government telling me and you what we can do, where we can go and even what we can eat for it will effect health care costs.
Adults should be able to take the risks they choose as long as it presents no physical risk to others, period!
rad, Oct 8 2008, 04:33 PMI read the thread about this on STN and it appears that Philly may have done this one ok. A quote over there states that aftermarket pipes are not forbidden, as in Denver, but rather straight pipes without baffles are. If that is true, it is not too bad of a start.
Unfortunately that is not true. According to several sources, any aftermarket pipe, that you can see the inlet from the oulet (think leo vince, two brothers and most others) are illegal. heck the factory cans on my rc51 would qualify as illegal according to these rules if they did not have the honda stamps on them.
And the cops are looking at all bikes not just cruisers.
I just mean that we need to respond to this hard and fast with all out clout to crush it to dust. (sorry if my imagery was offensive).
This law does not just apply to only Pa residents either, it applies to any motorcycle in the city. Imagine getting pulled over on i-95 while headed to a rally or a ride and getting smacked with a 1500 fine because you don't have a factory exhaust on your bike!!! or better yet, the cop can't read the factory stamp so he tickets you anyway.
that is what can happen with this law.
Don't get me wrong, loud loud pipes suck big time. But this law doesn't measure the sound levels of pipes, it just looks at the pipe and says "Nope, not stock, pay up boy" That is not right.
SEBSPEED, Oct 8 2008, 10:38 AMHow 'bout a frikken helmet law instead? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/comp13.gif)
I was frikken amazed after spending 10 days in PA last month - my unscientific estimate was about 75% of riders without helmets. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
V4 Rosso, Oct 8 2008, 04:25 PMI am with Baileyrock, loud pipes hurt motorcycling. Personally I hate them too and am quite happy that open pipes are illegal over here. Nothing against aftermaket pipes that are a bit louder than stock.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/+1.gif) The TBR full system on my VFR is to loud IMO and I wish I could quiet it down some. I wish they would just come up with a max db limit for all on road vehicles.
Gap Trash, Oct 8 2008, 10:00 PMThere are plenty of people affected when helmets are not worn and a rider gets hurt. These people include the family and friends of the accident victim and those that may have to take care of them if they do not make a full recovery. Tax payers who are likely to have to pay for medical care. The general public who may have to pay higher health insurance premiums. Not to mention the motorcyclists who are constantly fighting a losing battle about our image.
That my friend is a very slippery slope you have venture out on. Using your logic you could justify not allowing people to participate in any number of risky activities for it has an impact on other people.
If you follow your $ logic, the concept can get very scary very quick regarding government telling me and you what we can do, where we can go and even what we can eat for it will effect health care costs.
Adults should be able to take the risks they choose as long as it presents no physical risk to others, period!
[/quote] (IMG:style_emoticons/default/+1.gif) The TBR full system on my VFR is to loud IMO and I wish I could quiet it down some. I wish they would just come up with a max db limit for all on road vehicles. [/quote]
That my friend would be a broad based, logical and easily enforceable standard that everyone could know if they were violating before they left the garage. That is why it will not happen. For legislators, it is not necessary to solve the problem, it is only necessary to appear to solve the problem. "Don't ask me to think, I am busy legislating". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/warranty.gif) After all, their job security is controlled by the general public and look at the track record there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/schla15.gif)
This is a stimulating discussion with many sides and points of view, including some real touchy subjects. I congratulate all of you for handling it in a civil way, don't lose sight of that and we can all learn and share a lot more! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)
Back to the subject, many of you have seen me challenge individual members here who post up asking for the "Loudest Exhaust" or "Can I run it Open header" type threads. I feel it is in my best interest as well as our sports best interest to point out how these extremely loud exhaust and other stupid behavior negatively effect us! These new or proposed legislation's are a direct result of us failing to police ourselves and not challenge or fellow riders to NOT build or run these extremely Loud exhaust systems and open headers. I have been riding m/c's for 40 years and have seen dirt riding areas, race tracks and other places to ride close down back in the 80's because of noise and it continues today. Some were tracks, others were National Forrest Lands that we used to be able to enjoy, but because of a few self centered groups of riders who ignored private property and refused to run muffles we lost these areas FOREVER!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Wake up people, in order to have any chance of enjoying what we love (bikes & riding) in the future whether street or dirt or even tracks, you better start doing your part to save the future of this Sport and Dope Slap your buddy who's willing to run and open header or other extremely loud exhaust, wheelie down the hwy or main street or do 150 mph through someone's neighborhood. Moderation is all we need to do, stop the extremist stupid crap that will ruin it for everyone! It's that simple!
stepping off the box! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) BR
Baileyrock, Oct 8 2008, 10:36 AMThis is exactly the kind of Legislation that will eventually be Nation Wide because we fail to police our own sport and tell our friends and fellow riders that their Straight Piped HD's or GP style cans or open exhaust that some of our own members build and post about right here on VFRD are not challenged. I run aftermarket cans and love the sound, but people who run and brag about "how fricken loud my bike is" or "whats the loudest exhaust made" type of attitude will kill off all our rights a they get Legislated away in response.
Like everything, if it's done in moderation it will have a much smaller impact on the entire sport. You can easily have a great sounding exhaust running below 100 db's (20 over stock), but these people who run the open or straight pipes on any bike that are 110, 115 to 130 db's are killing it for us all and if you want to keep the freedoms you have you should be putting you foot up the azz of the idiots ruining it for everyone esle.
Same thing applies to Stunting and Street Racing, if this stuff keeps happening on Main streets throughout the country we will only see more crazy Legislation removing even more freedoms we currently enjoy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pissed.gif)
If we don't police our own Sport they will do it for us, it's your choice ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
just my $.02 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
you couldn't have possibly said it better.
trust me, most LEOs can easily tell the difference between an aftermarket exhaust system and a stock one. state troopers in NJ are already strict on this (they don't play games, either.)
As I mentioned in my previous post, I contacted the AMA. (trying to put my membership dues to work...)
Here's what I submitted:
Topic: Legislative/Government Issues
Question/Comment: From what I understand of this bill, this doesn't seem right. I saw this posted on a forum and thought I would pass it along. (I do not reside in that state, so contacting them direct is most likely feudal.) Any motorcyclist should have the right to install aftermarket exhaust systems. On the other hand, I would personally agree with allowing legislation that would limit the decibel level. The latter was not mentioned in the post that I saw below: http://www.hallwatch.org/councilnotices/em...2453767144/view
Here's what I got back:
Thank you for using the �Contact Us� feature at www.AmericanMotorcyclist.com to share your concern regarding the proposed Philadelphia �Prohibited Exhaust Systems� ordinance.
As we read the proposed ordinance, we don�t believe it will prohibit the installation and/or use of aftermarket (non-stock) exhaust systems on motorcycles, only those determined to be �� ahollow-core muffler that is missing a baffle or straight-pipe exhaust system.�
We�ll continue to monitor this proposed ordinance; if you�d like to follow it, visit http://webapps.phila.gov/council/detailreport/?key=8816 for the history and text of the ordinance and the agenda of City Council. Note the proposed ordinance is not on the agenda for the October 16 meeting of City Council.
Thanks again for contacting us and for your continued membership support of the AMA.
Sincerely,
Mr. Imre F. Szauter Government Affairs Manager American Motorcyclist Association 13515 Yarmouth Drive Pickerington, OH 43147-8214 1 (800) AMA-JOIN 1 (614) 856-1900, ext. 1125
The information contained in this message may be confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reliance upon, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication, or the information contained in it, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. American Motorcyclist Association, Inc.
Gap Trash, Oct 8 2008, 10:00 PMThere are plenty of people affected when helmets are not worn and a rider gets hurt. These people include the family and friends of the accident victim and those that may have to take care of them if they do not make a full recovery. Tax payers who are likely to have to pay for medical care. The general public who may have to pay higher health insurance premiums. Not to mention the motorcyclists who are constantly fighting a losing battle about our image.
That my friend is a very slippery slope you have venture out on. Using your logic you could justify not allowing people to participate in any number of risky activities for it has an impact on other people.
If you follow your $ logic, the concept can get very scary very quick regarding government telling me and you what we can do, where we can go and even what we can eat for it will effect health care costs.
Adults should be able to take the risks they choose as long as it presents no physical risk to others, period!
I agree with Rad totally, as long as the individual is financially capable and willing to cover any negative consequences that result or, if not, won't be expecting us to ante up for consequences that are a direct result of his personal decision. In other words, I'm not willing to pay for, e.g., brain surgery, rehabilitation, food stamps, welfare, etc., etc. for someone who made the concious decision not to wear a helmet. (Just my two cents.)
This should be referred to the AMA, if it hasn't been already. I'd be willing to bet their gov't affairs area is aware of it. Loud pipes are a major issue all over... like it or not, we (motorcyclists) will have to deal with it. We can (try to) do it proactively and cooperatively, or it can be forced on us. I'm hoping for the former.
Macs06VFR, Oct 9 2008, 03:02 PMThis should be referred to the AMA, if it hasn't been already. I'd be willing to bet their gov't affairs area is aware of it. Loud pipes are a major issue all over... like it or not, we (motorcyclists) will have to deal with it. We can (try to) do it proactively and cooperatively, or it can be forced on us. I'm hoping for the former.
Yep, read post #44. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif)
I have a simple rule of thumb for these types of issues: People should be legaly allowed to do whatever they want to do, so long as they don't interfere with anyone else's right to do whatever they want to do.
- Obnoxiously loud pipes interfere with the rights of others to not have to go deaf, so legal limitation is acceptable. - Not wearing a helmet (a very stupid thing to do) does not restrict anyone elses rights. Therefore I do not support legal restrictions. That doesn't mean that I support riding without a helmet, I just don't think you can, or should, legislate away stupidity.
Baileyrock, Oct 9 2008, 11:17 AMThis is a stimulating discussion with many sides and points of view, including some real touchy subjects. I congratulate all of you for handling it in a civil way, don't lose sight of that and we can all learn and share a lot more! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)
Back to the subject, many of you have seen me challenge individual members here who post up asking for the "Loudest Exhaust" or "Can I run it Open header" type threads. I feel it is in my best interest as well as our sports best interest to point out how these extremely loud exhaust and other stupid behavior negatively effect us! These new or proposed legislation's are a direct result of us failing to police ourselves and not challenge or fellow riders to NOT build or run these extremely Loud exhaust systems and open headers. I have been riding m/c's for 40 years and have seen dirt riding areas, race tracks and other places to ride close down back in the 80's because of noise and it continues today. Some were tracks, others were National Forrest Lands that we used to be able to enjoy, but because of a few self centered groups of riders who ignored private property and refused to run muffles we lost these areas FOREVER!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Wake up people, in order to have any chance of enjoying what we love (bikes & riding) in the future whether street or dirt or even tracks, you better start doing your part to save the future of this Sport and Dope Slap your buddy who's willing to run and open header or other extremely loud exhaust, wheelie down the hwy or main street or do 150 mph through someone's neighborhood. Moderation is all we need to do, stop the extremist stupid crap that will ruin it for everyone! It's that simple!
stepping off the box! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) BR
re-box!
End of thread · 52 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 10 Oct 2008