Need A Parts Source

Howdy folks,

got an '02 VFR800, 35,000mi.
She's got a stuck open thermostat (again, this will be the 4th one) and I"m looking for a non-Honda source. Maybe an aftermarket one won't stick open!

Also got head bearings out and was wondering where I should acquire some. Course there's the dealer or Honda parts source, but was looking for the tapered ones.

Thanks in advance y'all!

All Balls for the steering head bearings. http://www.goallball...p...=Ret&id=589

Sorry, not sure about a different thermostat.

Wow, your head bearings are shot already??? my o4 has 70,000+ and still fine. do you ride in a lot of rain? does your bike sit outside?

On the thremostat, not sure on aftermarket...but I would not think that 4 honda termostats would be bad. Maybe the housing has a problem? When it sticks open, what temp does the engine run at? What are you running as far as coolant??

[image: View Post]Luvmyvfr, on Nov 19 2008, 08:18 AM, said:

Wow, your head bearings are shot already??? my o4 has 70,000+ and still fine. do you ride in a lot of rain? does your bike sit outside?

On the thremostat, not sure on aftermarket...but I would not think that 4 honda termostats would be bad. Maybe the housing has a problem? When it sticks open, what temp does the engine run at? What are you running as far as coolant??
The bike does sit outside, but under a cover. I'm feeling a obvious click in the front end and the wheel bearings are good. Front tire is worn notchy now and I always keep the pressure at the specified 36psi.

Replaced a t-stat at 13,500 and again at 22,000 and now at 35,000. Coolant has been OEM up till this last time when I switched to aftermarket. And yes, its the good stuff approved for aluminum engines.
This last T-Stat was an aftermarket for the ST1300 and it never worked right.

Watching the ST1300 boards and this board, it seems that Honda just makes crummy t-stats as nearly everyone has had problems with them.

I was just looking at my manual, and it looks like there is no possible way to install it backwards. I am guessing that it's usually pretty hot where you are...I rode through amarillo once a few years ago in april and it snowed on me so you must get below freezing weather so just running water and water wetter is out.

Do you have a service manual?? Have you tested the thermostats in boiling water to check that they are performing properly?

What temp does your bike run at while riding it?

As for the head bearings, have you lifted the front end so they can hang freely and be turned side to side? If you don't have a front end lift, you can always put it on the center stand and have someone sit on the back seat..that will hold the front off the ground long enough to check.

[image: View Post]tx_vfr, on Nov 19 2008, 06:27 AM, said:

Replaced a t-stat at 13,500 and again at 22,000 and now at 35,000. Coolant has been OEM up till this last time when I switched to aftermarket. And yes, its the good stuff approved for aluminum engines.
This last T-Stat was an aftermarket for the ST1300 and it never worked right.

Watching the ST1300 boards and this board, it seems that Honda just makes crummy t-stats as nearly everyone has had problems with them.

I had hope that the ST1300 replacement thermostat from Turbo City might work in the VFR. Tom the owner seems to think it's probably the same, but I never got around to getting one to him so he can compare it to the replacement thermo he sells for the ST1300. You said you tried an aftermarket ST1300 thermo...what do you mean when you say it never worked right?

http://www.turbocity...products_id=588

In the trouble shooting section of the cooling system, under Enging Temp too low:

- Faulty temp guage or ECT sensor
- Thermostat stuck open
- Faulty cooling fan motor switch.

AFTER you install a new thermostat, does it function "normally" in the bike for a few thousand miles??

Have you checked the temp guage or the ECT sensor.

But if you can test the thermostat, and find that it IS operating normally, then you can look for a new problem. Do you still have the previoulsy installed, and then un-installed thermostats? if you do, test them both.

T-stat are common on 6 gens. I replaced mine at about 14,000 It's pretty easy when you pull it out to see if it defective. When at room temperature it's open, that pretty much told me mine was bad.

[image: View Post]Luvmyvfr, on Nov 19 2008, 08:55 AM, said:

I was just looking at my manual, and it looks like there is no possible way to install it backwards. I am guessing that it's usually pretty hot where you are...I rode through amarillo once a few years ago in april and it snowed on me so you must get below freezing weather so just running water and water wetter is out.

Do you have a service manual?? Have you tested the thermostats in boiling water to check that they are performing properly?

What temp does your bike run at while riding it?

As for the head bearings, have you lifted the front end so they can hang freely and be turned side to side? If you don't have a front end lift, you can always put it on the center stand and have someone sit on the back seat..that will hold the front off the ground long enough to check.
Yup, I've got the service manual. Everytime I've replaced it, there's been a 1/4" gap where the t-stat is stuck open. No question that its failed.

Normal temp during the summer is about 200*F when moving, stopped is around 220*F. Winter temps are about 180*F when moving, and about 190*F when stopped.

I'll check the bearings for sure before I actually replace them. Want to have them on hand as I've got some free time over Thanksgiving.

[image: View Post]NVR2L8, on Nov 19 2008, 08:55 AM, said:

[image: View Post]tx_vfr, on Nov 19 2008, 06:27 AM, said:

Replaced a t-stat at 13,500 and again at 22,000 and now at 35,000. Coolant has been OEM up till this last time when I switched to aftermarket. And yes, its the good stuff approved for aluminum engines.
This last T-Stat was an aftermarket for the ST1300 and it never worked right.

Watching the ST1300 boards and this board, it seems that Honda just makes crummy t-stats as nearly everyone has had problems with them.

I had hope that the ST1300 replacement thermostat from Turbo City might work in the VFR. Tom the owner seems to think it's probably the same, but I never got around to getting one to him so he can compare it to the replacement thermo he sells for the ST1300. You said you tried an aftermarket ST1300 thermo...what do you mean when you say it never worked right?

http://www.turbocity...products_id=588
The ST1300 t-stat looked just like the one out of the VFR on initial inspection. The bottom looked slightly different, but didn't appear to be a problem. When sticking it in the housing, it wouldn't quite seat like it should. A small amount of filing on a couple points allowed it to fit.
since the first start after the install, it hasn't functioned properly. Bike takes forever to warm up, and will not maintain operating temperature when riding. I suspect that its leaking past the t-stat.

[image: View Post]Luvmyvfr, on Nov 19 2008, 09:05 AM, said:

In the trouble shooting section of the cooling system, under Enging Temp too low:

- Faulty temp guage or ECT sensor
- Thermostat stuck open
- Faulty cooling fan motor switch.

AFTER you install a new thermostat, does it function "normally" in the bike for a few thousand miles??

Have you checked the temp guage or the ECT sensor.

But if you can test the thermostat, and find that it IS operating normally, then you can look for a new problem. Do you still have the previoulsy installed, and then un-installed thermostats? if you do, test them both.
Visibly stuck open indicates faulty to me.

[image: View Post]hondalover, on Nov 19 2008, 09:21 AM, said:

T-stat are common on 6 gens. I replaced mine at about 14,000 It's pretty easy when you pull it out to see if it defective. When at room temperature it's open, that pretty much told me mine was bad.
Yup.

I've got another Honda unit on order, hopefully this one will last more then 10k miles

Don't forget that tapered rollers in the steering head need FAR less preload than the OEM roller bearings do.


Like about 5 ft/lbs or so, instead of 18 or whatever the FSM recommends for the round rollers.

just got around( winter maintenance) to replacing steering bearings on my Hawk at 25,000 miles....found dents in my balls (ouch!) and races, but i'll avoid replacement with "Allballs" becuz it's cheap Chinese crap, and QUALITY bearings are made ONLY in Japan, USA, or Germany.

Also, the tapered bearings somewhat reduce front end feel because of increased friction and are more suited to heavier bikes.

original bearings from Hawk same as most VF/VFRs: upper="KOYO" SAC 2647
lower="KOYO" SAC 3055

[image: View Post]squirrelman, on Nov 19 2008, 02:51 PM, said:

just got around( winter maintenance) to replacing steering bearings on my Hawk at 25,000 miles....found dents in my balls (ouch!) and races, but i'll avoid replacement with "Allballs" becuz it's cheap Chinese crap, and QUALITY bearings are made ONLY in Japan, USA, or Germany.

Also, the tapered bearings somewhat reduce front end feel because of increased friction and are more suited to heavier bikes.

original bearings from Hawk same as most VF/VFRs: upper="KOYO" SAC 2647
lower="KOYO" SAC 3055

where did you get the bearing size from? i cant find it in the book what so ever and the internet isnt helping so far. i know the bearing size was posted here a while ago but its gone. we really need an archive section.

http://www.vfrdiscus...showtopic=46761

the bearing #s are stamped onto the outer races and are visible after removal.

I plan to order from an industrial bearing supplier like "Allied" rather than from the Honda dealer, but want original Japanese replacements from KOYO or equavalent.

[image: View Post]tx_vfr, on Nov 19 2008, 12:46 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Luvmyvfr, on Nov 19 2008, 08:55 AM, said:

I was just looking at my manual, and it looks like there is no possible way to install it backwards. I am guessing that it's usually pretty hot where you are...I rode through amarillo once a few years ago in april and it snowed on me so you must get below freezing weather so just running water and water wetter is out.

Do you have a service manual?? Have you tested the thermostats in boiling water to check that they are performing properly?

What temp does your bike run at while riding it?

As for the head bearings, have you lifted the front end so they can hang freely and be turned side to side? If you don't have a front end lift, you can always put it on the center stand and have someone sit on the back seat..that will hold the front off the ground long enough to check.
Yup, I've got the service manual. Everytime I've replaced it, there's been a 1/4" gap where the t-stat is stuck open. No question that its failed.

Normal temp during the summer is about 200*F when moving, stopped is around 220*F. Winter temps are about 180*F when moving, and about 190*F when stopped.

I'll check the bearings for sure before I actually replace them. Want to have them on hand as I've got some free time over Thanksgiving.

[image: View Post]NVR2L8, on Nov 19 2008, 08:55 AM, said:

[image: View Post]tx_vfr, on Nov 19 2008, 06:27 AM, said:

Replaced a t-stat at 13,500 and again at 22,000 and now at 35,000. Coolant has been OEM up till this last time when I switched to aftermarket. And yes, its the good stuff approved for aluminum engines.
This last T-Stat was an aftermarket for the ST1300 and it never worked right.

Watching the ST1300 boards and this board, it seems that Honda just makes crummy t-stats as nearly everyone has had problems with them.

I had hope that the ST1300 replacement thermostat from Turbo City might work in the VFR. Tom the owner seems to think it's probably the same, but I never got around to getting one to him so he can compare it to the replacement thermo he sells for the ST1300. You said you tried an aftermarket ST1300 thermo...what do you mean when you say it never worked right?

http://www.turbocity...products_id=588
The ST1300 t-stat looked just like the one out of the VFR on initial inspection. The bottom looked slightly different, but didn't appear to be a problem. When sticking it in the housing, it wouldn't quite seat like it should. A small amount of filing on a couple points allowed it to fit.
since the first start after the install, it hasn't functioned properly. Bike takes forever to warm up, and will not maintain operating temperature when riding. I suspect that its leaking past the t-stat.

[image: View Post]Luvmyvfr, on Nov 19 2008, 09:05 AM, said:

In the trouble shooting section of the cooling system, under Enging Temp too low:

- Faulty temp guage or ECT sensor
- Thermostat stuck open
- Faulty cooling fan motor switch.

AFTER you install a new thermostat, does it function "normally" in the bike for a few thousand miles??

Have you checked the temp guage or the ECT sensor.

But if you can test the thermostat, and find that it IS operating normally, then you can look for a new problem. Do you still have the previoulsy installed, and then un-installed thermostats? if you do, test them both.
Visibly stuck open indicates faulty to me.

[image: View Post]hondalover, on Nov 19 2008, 09:21 AM, said:

T-stat are common on 6 gens. I replaced mine at about 14,000 It's pretty easy when you pull it out to see if it defective. When at room temperature it's open, that pretty much told me mine was bad.
Yup.

I've got another Honda unit on order, hopefully this one will last more then 10k miles


I am supprised that your bike is running so hot...even on a 95 degree day, as long as i'm moving through the air 40+mph my bike is only running 182 +/- a degree or two. When I'm stopped on a the same hot day, it will climb very quickly to 220 when the fan kicks on and cools it off. According to the service manual, the thermostat operating temperature is 80 ~84 C or 176~183.2 F When it's very cold out(yesterday It was 25 F to and from work the bike maintained 176 F. That's been a constant for the life of the bike.

I just got off the phone with my buddy that did about 15 years of roadracing just to make sure that my numbers sounded good. He's good for sound mechanical advice.

Ok, you said that the bike takes forever to warm up...not sure about your definition of forever? The only way to check would be to put two identical bikes side to side and see! If I were still single, I'd hop on my bike Friday and put it next to yours on saturday. Taking a long time to warm up indicates that the thermostat is probably stuck open...but the temp numbers that your giving me seem to be too hot. So racer Bob thinks that there is probably a problem with your ECT pickup sensor. That's a tough one to test. As of right now I'm not sure how to test that...give me a day or two! :idea3: Or if your bike is running hot maybe a problem with the water pump impeller. That you could easily pull apart and look at. Bob and I both agreed that the chances of you getting 4 bad thermostats is pretty unlikely. Although he's a Kawasaki/Ducati guy and says it's probably a Honda thing :goofy:

If your pulling them out and there only slightly cracked open...I'd perform the boiling water test just to watch them work. It should open 8mm according to the book!

Most racers go with aftermarket temperature gauges. Here's one from daytona: This would be a great thing to have and trust, but not cheap! http://www.motosport...t=badger-street


If its the ECT then all of your thermostats might be OK!!

[image: View Post]Luvmyvfr, on Nov 19 2008, 07:31 PM, said:

I am supprised that your bike is running so hot...even on a 95 degree day, as long as i'm moving through the air 40+mph my bike is only running 182 +/- a degree or two. When I'm stopped on a the same hot day, it will climb very quickly to 220 when the fan kicks on and cools it off. According to the service manual, the thermostat operating temperature is 80 ~84 C or 176~183.2 F When it's very cold out(yesterday It was 25 F to and from work the bike maintained 176 F. That's been a constant for the life of the bike.

I just got off the phone with my buddy that did about 15 years of roadracing just to make sure that my numbers sounded good. He's good for sound mechanical advice.

Ok, you said that the bike takes forever to warm up...not sure about your definition of forever? The only way to check would be to put two identical bikes side to side and see! If I were still single, I'd hop on my bike Friday and put it next to yours on saturday. Taking a long time to warm up indicates that the thermostat is probably stuck open...but the temp numbers that your giving me seem to be too hot. So racer Bob thinks that there is probably a problem with your ECT pickup sensor. That's a tough one to test. As of right now I'm not sure how to test that...give me a day or two! :idea3: Or if your bike is running hot maybe a problem with the water pump impeller. That you could easily pull apart and look at. Bob and I both agreed that the chances of you getting 4 bad thermostats is pretty unlikely. Although he's a Kawasaki/Ducati guy and says it's probably a Honda thing :goofy:

If your pulling them out and there only slightly cracked open...I'd perform the boiling water test just to watch them work. It should open 8mm according to the book!

Most racers go with aftermarket temperature gauges. Here's one from daytona: This would be a great thing to have and trust, but not cheap! http://www.motosport...t=badger-street


If its the ECT then all of your thermostats might be OK!!

On looking at your numbers, that seems more right. Haven't ridden the bike in the summer in a few months, and its been misbehaving temp-wise all winter. For now, we'll assume its operating correctly.

The T-stats are 100% closed when I put them in, and when I replace them they are stuck open about 5-8mm.

Forever to warm up, yeah thats a bit vague, my bad. 10-15min after a cold start, its still sub 120F where normally it would be nearly to operating temp by then.

I suppose its possible its the ECT, but seeing as a the t-stats are stuck open, I'm going to fault them first.

[image: View Post]veefer800canuck, on Nov 19 2008, 12:49 PM, said:

Don't forget that tapered rollers in the steering head need FAR less preload than the OEM roller bearings do.


Like about 5 ft/lbs or so, instead of 18 or whatever the FSM recommends for the round rollers.
Are you talking preload on the forks or the torque on the steering head itself?

I used a Stant thermostat to replace mine.

http://www.vfrdiscus...p...c=38666&hl=

you have to trim it a little, not as hard as it sounds. some have used a grinder to do it and it took a while. I used tin snips to get it close and a grinder to finish up. Works great!

Make sure you replace the O-ring, a few bucks from Honda, but you don't want to have to do it twice if you don't have to :)

j

Tore it back apart today (hows that for Thanksgiving?) and the T-stat appeared to behaving correctly. On closer inspection I found that the Motorad one I got for the ST1300 has an extra bypass hole in it. It would appear that this 1/8" hole is allowing enough water through to keep the bike from reaching full temp.

I've installed a fresh Honda t-stat and we'll see how that does.

Local auto parts store said they couldn't get anything that would fit. I'll have to check out that Stant link should this one give up the ghost as well. Lets hope I don't have to mess with that darn thing for another good long time. :mad: