Howdy, I've got a motorofficer friend of mine that is contemplating picking up a VFR. He's always liked my 25th Anniversary and is looking at a Red 6th gen as we speak. I already offered to let him borrow mine to see if he likes it... He just wanted to know how much different they are. I don't have any experience riding a ST1300PA (which is what the local law enforcement detail is running) but I told him the biggest difference would be the weight! (650 vs 470) Just wanted to see if there's anyone out there (LEO or other) that has any riding time on both, and what I should tell him to expect. His current personal bike is a H-D but he's tired of riding straight for 3 hours, hanging out with his biker buddies at a bar, and turning around and heading back. He's up for twisties and H-D just isn't gonna cut it around here...
I have been riding with ST folks for well over a year. I am quite fond of the ST1300 and prefer it over the FJR and C14. The ST is closer to GL1800 in perfomance than a VFR. With its range and comfort, the ST rules the long distance roost. For backroad twisty stuff the VFR shines, but the ST still handles quite well and is obviously more comfortable for the long haul. The engine on the ST is sublime with torque everywhere with no valleys. The motor is ultra smooth almost Wing like. The electric windshield is kinda cool.
With a VFR and a Wing I bracket the ST but if I had only one it would be the ST. If I did just weekend day rides with turns, turns, turns, I would pick a VFR but if I did a mixed bag with some tours and took a SO on a spin I would opt for the ST.
the ST1300 is a true sport tourer (hence the "ST" in the model name) while the VFR is, more or less, a "plain" sport bike. the VFR doesn't do any one thing really well. instead it does a lot of things, just..... well (touring being one of them.)
following is, i think, a pretty accurate description of various motorcycles and what classification they fall under:
luxury tourer: Gold Wing sport tourer: ST1300 sport: VFR800 super sport: CBR600RR super bike: CBR1000RR
some people will even throw in another class: hyper sport (think Busa or ZX-14).
i've never ridden an ST1300 but i've heard they're incredibly comfortable and can really eat up the miles. you can do twisties in 'em, but they'd have to be mild ones (no peg scraping.) and yes, they're heavy. keep in mind the 650 lb. ST1300 will easily tip the scales at well over 700 lbs. with all liquids. the gas tank alone holds almost eight gallons.
it's the only other mc in Honda's lineup that also has a V4.
First off, caveat what I say with the fact that I have never ridden a ST1300. That said, before I bought my 02 VFR I considered several different bikes, finally boiling it down to the VFR and the ST. Why didn't I go with the ST? Really two reasons, the greater weight and a desire to have a more 'sport' oriented sport touring bike. 6 years with the VFR and I have no regrets, especially having spent 2 years on a 270 lb Aprilia RS250...less weight is just more fun to me, now if only the VFR would lose some weight. My only other input is that I think any kind of distance touring two up on the VFR would not be fun, ST is likely much better two up.
The ST is heavy at rest and actually feels heavier than even a Wing till you get going. The 1800 carries its weight lower than the ST and has a lower seat height. Like the Wing though once underway you do not feel the heft. It is very easy to initiate and moderate/tighten turns. It is a very easy bike to ride quickly. Few bikes can make tracks like the ST can for big miles.
If your buddy's HD has a 'barn door' fairing/windshield, he might be happier with an ST. I've driven both and the VFR's ergos and the wind 'involvement' suit me better.
Both can be driven fairly quickly, but I felt way to insulated / protected on the ST. Oh yeah, the ST sounds like a lawn mower compared to Viffer.
IMO, as far as working on a street bike, the high piped vfr is pretty nice. Only way I'd get a bigger bike, is if somebody else was going to do all the work on it.
Being the guy is a Harley guy, I think he'd be fine on the FJR and like it alot, I would want a clutch though.
shaynej, Jan 6 2009, 08:10 PMHowdy, I've got a motorofficer friend of mine that is contemplating picking up a VFR. <SNIP> I don't have any experience riding a ST1300PA (which is what the local law enforcement detail is running) but I told him the biggest difference would be the weight! (650 vs 470) Just wanted to see if there's anyone out there (LEO or other) that has any riding time on both, and what I should tell him to expect.
It kinda depends on what he plans on using the bike for... touring or weekend duty or both. I own both an ST(1100) and a VFR (5th gen). For multi-day, multi-state, 600 to 1000 mile/day touring, it's hard to beat the ST1100/1300... excellent gas mileage, long range due to the 7.5+ gallon tank, smooth as silk, very VERY reliable, great weather protection, nice big panniers, comfortable, plus it has a huge alternator to generate lot's o' electrons for those electrical farkles. The ST can hold it's on in the twisty stuff but just not quite as well or with as much fun as the VFR or a full blown sport bike. On the other hand, my personal weapon of choice for weekend and medium distance touring where I'm doing no more than 500 miles per day in decent weather is the VFR, especially if most of the travel is on back roads. When I think of my VFR I think of fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) ! When I think of my ST I think of a mile munching machine that is rock solid reliable. Somewhat boring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/schla15.gif) but it is exactly what I want in a long distance touring machine. Two different machines with two different missions in life.
I'm lucky to have both the ST and the VFR. If I decided there would be no more 6000+ mile, 2 week trips, I'd ditch the ST in a minute and stay with the VFR. If however it was important to be able to do long distance touring I'd stay with the ST. At least with the ST you can do both LD touring and sport riding. I've known of guys that use to regularly do peg scraping on the ST!
In summary, if long distance touring is important to your buddy, recommend the ST. If not, definitely go with the VFR.
Wow, thanks guys, I was only expecting a couple of responses and ended up with all this! I'll let him know your opinions, and find out if he's looking for extended trips or twisty excursions. It sounded to me that he was just bored of riding in a straight line and wanted a personal bike for the mountains. I've seen him in action on his police bike and it amazes me how they can do a u-turn so quickly be gone in a blink! Made me think twice before running from him... well...
Ah, the perfect question - I own one of each - a 2002 VFR and an 2004 ST1300.
The VFR is a SPORT tourer while the ST is a sport TOURER.
When I want to go play in the twisties (riding solo) I take the VFR. When I want to knock down a lot of miles (or take the wifey along) I ride the ST.
The ST has a lot of motor. It's biggest draw back is it puts out a tremendous amount of heat. Until you figure out the "work arounds" the bike is impossible to ride in Georgia summers. I do most of my ST riding during the cooler months.
I owned a GL1800 before the ST. My wife hated it. Even though the GL had the arm chair back seat, the wind flow over the GL buffeted her head around so much she would wind up with an incredible headache. One trip through Deal's Gap on the GL scared the $hit out of her. It drags a lot of hardware. Figured we were too young for a GL and traded it in on an ST. The wife can ride the ST all day long even though there is a lot less seat back there for her. The air moves over it differently and she doesn't get the head buffeting like on the GL. We still drag hardware though - pegs and brake pedal.
There's not much that can be done to the ST motor wise to improve it's performance. Standard procedure is to install a Turbo City fuel pressure regulator, a G2 Ergonomics throttle grip, and maybe a K&N air filter. The G2 throttle grip has an eccentric cam for the pull throttle cable making the bike less sensitive to low throttle openings. The injection system on the ST is very touchy.
I'm in the process of doing all of the handling goodies to my ST - Penske shock, Sonic Springs, Racetech rebound and compression valves, etc. The ST and VFR both suffer from the same Honda problem - too softly sprung and way overdamped.
I hang out on the ST-owners.com site as well as here. Everybody over there wants to know why I'm trying to make the ST sportier. I tell them I like to ride fast.
My best advice to your buddy is to hang out on both web sites for a while. The people you meet and read over there are greatly different than on this site. This site is BaileyRock, Sebspeed, Tightwad, Tinyminds, Kanadian Ken, Jeremy, etc. The people over at ST-owners are concerned about trying to get maximum tire life out of a set of tires, arguing about K&N filters vs. stock Honda filters, etc. Different mentality all together. Under your name you list how many times you've dropped your ST in a parking lot turn.
Not patting myself on the back or anything, but I have taken the ST to north GA and showed sport bikes on both Highway 129 and Wolf Pen Gap Road what the rear of a bagger looks like. It can be ridden fairly agressively. Honda "hides" the weight of the bike well. One really cool thing about the ST is that the saddle bags are detachable and have handles on them just like suit cases. Get to your destination, unlock your bags, and walk to the check out desk with a saddle bag in each hand.
I've got my ST set up for all weather riding. Wired for Gerbing suits front and rear, GPS, heated grips, etc. The windshield is electrically adjustable on the fly with a button right below the horn button. Keep it low as possible for spirited riding, put it up on the freeway to take a break from the wind blast.
Both are fabulous bikes. You can't go wrong with either one. Have your buddy hang out on each web-site for a week or so and see which group seems most like him. Then buy the VFR or the ST.
I'm lucky in that i have both in the garage. Well one is my dad's. Think of the ST as a bigger version of the vfr. Literally! Its not exactly a slouch in the tearing up the curves department either. But the vfr is definitely easier to ride in the twisties, especially the tight stuff. Basically if he want more relaxed ergos and more wind protection, go with the ST... if not the vfr will suit his needs. Both are great bikes. Oh yea, the valve check on the ST is ten times easier then our 6th gens, and faster then the 5th's. And the rear tire change isn't exactly tough. Just looks like it would be a pain. But really it isn't.
Edit: Pete, we must have been typing at the same time. I hear you on slinging the ST around. I watch usually in my mirrors as my dad haunts me going up Blood. I think the two of us are in a competition to see who can wear a rear out the fastest. I'll have to pass along the info on the throttle cam. We both noticed the "twitchy throttle syndrome". I figured it was a combination of the usual poor low speed mapping and Drive line lash.
kwr8728, Jan 6 2009, 11:18 PMI'm lucky in that i have both in the garage. Well one is my dad's. Think of the ST as a bigger version of the vfr. Literally! Its not exactly a slouch in the tearing up the curves department either. But the vfr is definitely easier to ride in the twisties, especially the tight stuff. Basically if he want more relaxed ergos and more wind protection, go with the ST... if not the vfr will suit his needs. Both are great bikes. Oh yea, the valve check on the ST is ten times easier then our 6th gens, and faster then the 5th's. And the rear tire change isn't exactly tough. Just looks like it would be a pain. But really it isn't.
Edit: Pete, we must have been typing at the same time. I hear you on slinging the ST around. I watch usually in my mirrors as my dad haunts me going up Blood. I think the two of us are in a competition to see who can wear a rear out the fastest. I'll have to pass along the info on the throttle cam. We both noticed the "twitchy throttle syndrome". I figured it was a combination of the usual poor low speed mapping and Drive line lash.
KWR:
Tell your Dad to check out this thread. The guy was out of them for a long time. He finally got some more made and mine came in Monday. It is a first class piece of work he makes. I'm not sure if the group buy discount is still in effect.
I think kwr inadvertently hit the nail on the head. He has a VFR, his dad has an ST.
I'm 58 years old so I guess I'm have claim to both groups. It's definitely an older crowd on the ST's (no offense to your dad KWR).
I know in metro Atlanta a few police depts have gone to the ST - most notably the City of Duluth. I've talked with a couple of their motor officers and they are cool guys. The City of Duluth makes them ride their ST's to someplace out in Texas and take a one week course before they turn them lose on the streets. The City of Duluth LEO's are very forward thinking - they practice ATGATT, not short sleeve shirts and half helmets.
sorry guys, I think I mis-spoke on my original post, he currently rides the ST1300PA as his police bike, owns a H-D as his personal bike. He's interested in getting a VFR and I was hoping to compare the way his "work" bike would ride as compared to a VFR.
Ive owned 3 VFR's(4,5,6 gens) and a ST1100 since 2001. Been on many 2-3K trips on all VFR's and I would be sore torwards the later part of the day,especially after mulitple long days(8-10 hrs of saddle time). Been on several long trips,X-country and many day trips on the ST.More neutral position and wind protection,and that torque everywhere. He definitely won't have as much comfort on the VFR as his ST but if he isn't doin long trips or more than a couple of days ,he probably won't mind or be very happy with the loss of weight and the extra flickability. Maybe loan him yours for a long weekend so he can put on some serious miles so he can give it a fair evaluation.Couple of hours can't do that,as the VFR is such a blast to ride right off bat.Living with one is a different story,less comfort,less low end and that damm chain maintenance(assuming that he doesn't do his own service on his work vehicle)! Not saying they are necessarily bad things,just adjustments that someone coming from an ST13 has to make.
QUOTE (JZH @ Jan 7 2009, 06:53 PM) I've owned VFRs for 15 years (see sig). I turned 40. I bought an ST1300. You got a problem with that...punk? (IMG: style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif ) Ciao, No sir, not at all. Just be sure to keep downing that centrum silver (IMG: style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif )
If you think the VFR has a high center of gravity... try the ST1300. It's heavier and feels like it as well... but I could ride across the country easily on a ST (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If the wife would allow 3 bikes... I would own a ST1300
Don't for get the VFR will require chain maintenance (something he may or may not be use to).
The one thing I don't like about the VFR (for long trips) is chain maintenance. After riding 500-650 miles in a day, unloading, showering , eating and having some brews, the last thing I want to do the next morning is lube / adjust the chain. I try and do it at least every other day when on a trip (more if it rains).
As some above I am lucky to own both. 07VFR ABS and 08 ST1300 ABS. The reason I boughthe ST is weather protection, stability and mile eater Touring capability. The VFR was my daily ride (for 12K miles) . It doas wat it suppose to do but it felt a lot better whe I took it out to the sweepers and switcbacks. IF he rides an ST1300PA (and owns a HD) he will like the smaller weight of the VFR but pretty much will stop there. The seating position is more aggressive, the saddle bags are extra and the VFR with the saddle bags is wider than ST with the bags.
Once I had the ST and put some mile , I am now ready to take the saddle bags of the VFR put a non tourig ZG screen on it, remove the passanger pegs, the grab rails , put on the seat cowl and use it as a weekend fun to trow around bike....that is forget the touring side of it and use the non agressive sport side of it.
