Hi folks,
A boring indoor weekend - that 's reason I took lot of time surfing internet. And with a biker, what is more interesting than looking for some two wheels vehicles which could be ridden for fun.
Yeah, that's is it. Surf, surf, and surf - that damn crazy thing made me accidentally fall in love with the Cafe Racer bike type.
So, what is Cafe Racer? This may be known by most of bikers.
However, I'd better copy here some initial info as a start of thread.
Initially, around 60s, in England, Cafe Racer is a motorcycle that has been modified to race from a Café to some pre-set places.
At the first place, Cafe Racer is some signs of Rockers, of some young people who like something different from current and existing culture (some called counter-culture).
During 70s, there are some manufactures they build Cafe Racer as their commercial product - no modification required.
That time, Japan builders started to spread out, make the Cafe racer market of EU builders (Aspes, Benelli, BMW, Bultaco...) smaller and smaller.
Cafe Racer became a culture at that time. And thing became nature, not counter-culture anymore.
The world Cafe Racer seemed not express it's meaning that time. That seemed not for race anymore, more for look.
And the typical specification of an early café racer would be:
Swept-back pipes
Clip-on's or 'Ace' bars
Reverse cone Mega's (short for megaphone mufflers - very much a misnomer). Later bikes used Dunstall's , which were silencers produced by tuning legend Paul Dunstall
TT100 Dunlop tires
Larger carburetors
Rear sets
(About.com)
Well, that's not so complicated though, and all the bikers could realize the Cafe Racer look at the first place, even the rider's helmet and goggles.
The Cafe Racer was, and now still is famous with some brands, i.e. Norton, Triumph, Ducati, BMW... And there are still many Cafe Racer with the damn high price.
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 13 February 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:
opps wrong damn one
Damn, you not wake up yet huh.... :schla15:
Could you recover the "correct" one and I can move the "correct" post to the top.
However, I still try to up the next post down here.
Thanks HS.
------------------------------
So, there are two options:
- Option 1: Buying a cafe racer bike - that looks like a rich people's game, right? And you may not have the design by your own.
- Option 2: I started thinking that I may start-up a Cafe racer modification Project - that may take months, or even years - but however doing by myself (or at least buying parts and designing by myself) would be more fun, more interesting than the option 1.
Okay, posting this thread to mark up my starting point - yeah, zero point!
Did several search on internet, I found down the bike with engine V-twin or boxer would be better for Cafe Racer modification.
My search was narrow down to Honda CX series
There are some CX, i.e. CX400, CX500, CX650 (with or without turbo).
So, that is it.
Now, I start looking around for a used CX500 or CX650 (preferred) with very good price, and ship to Vietnam.... then enjoy the Mods.........
Anyone knows someone selling these...?
Hope the physical project would be started very soon, then I can post to VFRD as a sharing thread.
There is an issue with sourcing parts for the cx, cannot remember if its rings but think it is, unobtainable...scared me off.
I have a cb500 that i rebuilt instead....its a fun job
, most everyhing is cheap and simple. Ring set cost me $40...so cheap/fun i tore the engine down 3 times in 2 months......
[image: View Post]VietHorse, on 13 February 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 13 February 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:
opps wrong damn one
Damn, you not wake up yet huh.... :schla15:
Could you recover the "correct" one and I can move the "correct" post to the top.
However, I still try to up the next post down here.
Thanks HS.
Or next time you screw it up, delete them yourself! HEH scroll to the bottom of the topic - find the link "moderator tools" and then when that opens - click delete topic! Easy as that, members are allowed to delete their own topics, and posts.
Thanks HS for your effort. I remember that I have tried that option but in vain.
I have searched for couple of days and will have contact with the seller (US) tomorrow morning, as here is 21:35hrs (Vietnam time) now.
The issue is the bike which I am interested on having no title and I may need to ask the seller to help me on that, otherwise, It can not be shipped out of US.
I don't know exactly how difficult for the spare parts of such old guys. However, the main things I need is that the engine block, the frame, drive shaft, both rims, and may be the triple tree. Others, especially the suspensions, head items, wiring system, etc,... would be not so difficult and really cheap to rebuild here.
I really like those bikes. I used to have a 1981 Honda Silverwing GL500 with that same motor. Great running motor and easy to work on. I think they refer to it as the "poor man's Moto Guzzi". I wouldn't mind having another one in the stable someday. :smile:
"It's a Vee Jim, but not as we know it" ... I've got one and a half CX 500's (a CX 750 ?) in my garage in bits, and I ran a CX650ED for a few months when I was in Oz. Here's a few random thoughts that may help ...
The engine is a vee, but it's a pushrod twin, so it doesn't run as smooth, or rev anywhere near as high as the VFR engines. The power of the 500 is about 50 bhp, so about 50% of the Vtec. Hopefully you'll be removing weight from the bike rather than increasing it !
The engine is pretty bullet-proof, with the exception of the cam-chain tensioner (a Honda with a poor CCT, who'da thought that :). The R/R is a known weak spot, and the water pump seal can fail (and when it does it's a pain to change). Other than that the engines generally just run.
That said, the broken one in my garage is an interesting story - it dropped a valve whilst overtaking a lorry. Luckily I wasn't driving :)
Engine parts are still in reasonable supply - David Silver Spares (based in the UK, but they ship world-wide) are a good source.
(This section is from memory, so subject to bit-rot ... Check for accuracy.) The initial CX 500 model (CX 500 A) had a terrible CCT, many failed very quickly. There was a general recall on the bike, and a newer better manual CCT was designed and retro-fitted. The newer models were called CX 500 B (?). The recalled bikes were marked with punch marks on the casings. The later CX 650 used a automatic tensioner that was generally less reliable than the redesigned manual one. A few years ago I was still able to buy both kinds of tensioner from David Silver.
Fairings, plastic bits, trim, exhaust, shocks ... are getting to be difficult to come by these days.
There were several models of the bike made over it's lifetime ... my favourites were the CX500EC or the CX650ED (see below).
The Turbo versions of the bike are generally regarded as 'good-fun' - they increased the power of the bike by ~ 50%, but if you get an engine problem you're in serious trouble these days. Most of the electronics and the sensors are just not available any more. For that reason I'd suggest that you go for the normal bike, rather than the Turbo.
There used to be a very good site full of tech info at http://www.elsham.pw...er.co.uk/cx500/ but it's gone now. I've included the URL as you may be able to find information about it on the wayback machine, or maybe someone has taken over the content and it's available elsewhere.
Cool Thread. I have a CX500 that I'm turning in to a Cafe Racer for the wife. But she told me to finish my CB/CR 750 first I'm just waiting on a few engine bits to come in, I have the engine completely torn down.
My wifes CX500 her uncle had it just sitting in the back of the barn in KS. [image: Posted Image]
I wish Honda would make a CR based on an ST1100 .Tranverse mounted shaft drive like my Guzzi and CX.The motor is bullet proof (I have a 86K 93 model,barely broken in) and tons of torque.
Untill then I'll suffer with my Speed Triple,
I am not trying to discourage you, but even as cool as CX's are, they have some inherent problems. The big one is the space directly under the seat. You can see some of the solutions on the bikes you posted, but that frame rail droops and eliminates 99 per cent of the cafe seats available. Also, as I found out whilst doing my CB200, there are certain bikes that cafe bits are made for, and some that are not. I found out that if my bike was a CB360 or a CB450, the number of things that will work on it go up 1000%. An alternate choice would be an XS650 or an SR500, because EVERYBODY makes stuff to fit these models.
I still have a long way to go with my 200, and then I move onto my 500 guzzi, and then, finish the brown hornet.
Here's another option,
My Moto Guzzi V11 Scura.Ohlins front and rear,MG Racing Titaniium exhaust,and carbon bits.Transverse V with a shaft drive.If Honda built something like these they would sell 10's of thousands.Guzzi is unlike any riding experience,but has a few frustrating QC issues.Honda wouldn't do that.Dont get me wrong modern ,Guzzi's are nothing like your grandfather's,just short of UJM's overall dedication to overall quality,reliability,and performance.
[image: View Post]rescue13, on 14 February 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:
Cool Thread. I have a CX500 that I'm turning in to a Cafe Racer for the wife. But she told me to finish my CB/CR 750 first I'm just waiting on a few engine bits to come in, I have the engine completely torn down.
My wifes CX500 her uncle had it just sitting in the back of the barn in KS. [image: Posted Image]
I had that model CX500 & in S'tralia it was designated as the "CX500 Custom".
A couple of week ends ago I was having a coffee at a bike cafe & one of the guys had this model Guzzi & thought it looked great. I've had a couple of Guzzi's (Monza & LeMans) & their a bike you you really have to play around with to set up.
This is supposed to be a limited edition (all bikes have a production number). [image: Posted Image] [image: Posted Image]
Hey Max1, I have a V50 as well (not a Monza). How many parts do you think will swap from that bike to ours? The frame and swing arm is exactly the same all these years later.
[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 15 February 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:
[image: Posted Image]
I dig the cocktail shakers!
I have a set of those pipes up in my garage loft. They had to come off due to finally rusting through. :sad: Those pipes on the early CB500/550 were some of the sexiest stock pipes put on bikes back in the 70s IMO. If you find a set in good shape these days, they are high dollar.
Here's my first love.....1974 CB550K. I'd call it a "mild Cafe"......stock seat, but with Tarozzi rearsets and clubmans for better riding position. I love her.
Wow... I didn't think this thread could be busy like this.
You are all awesome - all the guys with very good knowledge on such kind of hobby. Just myself really the newbie in this playground.
@rescue: Love the build of CX500 you posted. That'll be one of my sample for my future project. If I were the owner, I would paint the engine, and both rims with metal black color.
@ Chris-L: Thanks for very informative post. I don't really expect so much on those old machine and with some bike I may not be able to check prior to bringing it here. Anyway, your alert about CCT, differences btw CX500 versions and info of David Silver are great to me.
@Timmy: not fully understand your concern abt the space under the seat. I just thinking of the smaller air filter rather than a big box with old filter and a tool box compartment. However, those could be modify technically without any issue.
I have did some search on Craigst and on the forum you guys told me and found that not easy to find CX650. It' s easier if accept CX500.
Hope within this week I could have some good news
[image: View Post]VietHorse, on 15 February 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:
@Timmy: not fully understand your concern abt the space under the seat. I just thinking of the smaller air filter rather than a big box with old filter and a tool box compartment. However, those could be modify technically without any issue.
From the side view, look from the gas tank to the shock mount. It goes down hill then right back up. Most of the bikes you showed photos of, have a little filler piece in there. It isnt impossible by any meant, it just makes it harder.
Did , a Cafe Cx500 last winter, typical woes with water pump, fairly easy to fix using the shortcut posted on the Cx forums. What Tim was referring to is there is about a 2 inch gap between the seat and frame, that you have to do something with. Go to Flicker.com and there are quite a few posts of CX500's. It was a fun project.
Well, I got the point Timmy and enuf talking abt. Btw, I prefer to replace the OEM airfilter with the smaller aftermarket filter and make the box underneath the seat to be clear. Jus like this one: [image: Posted Image]
However, I wondering where to put the battery. Someone make a battery box right under the engine. I think they also do so for the bike above. But how to make it easy for removal, maintenance, etc.. I hv no Idea though.
I also did called and emailed someone who selling CX650/500 with reasonable price in LA and nearby... but not good result up to now.
[image: View Post]VietHorse, on 16 February 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:
However, I wondering where to put the battery. Someone make a battery box right under the engine. I think they also do so for the bike above. But how to make it easy for removal, maintenance, etc.. I hv no Idea though.
Oh, they have detail discussion here: http://www.dotheton....hp?topic=9063.0 ; http://www.dotheton....?topic=13231.20
[image: View Post]VietHorse, on 15 February 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:
Wow... I didn't think this thread could be busy like this.
You are all awesome - all the guys with very good knowledge on such kind of hobby. Just myself really the newbie in this playground.
Love the cafe bikes. Good luck with it and keep posting pictures! :fing02:
I really like this idea for a project! I'll be honest,I don't know much about cafe bikes and what makes a good cafe bike but how about a Kawasaki KZ? Like a KZ400 or KZ650? You could probably pick one up real cheap and find parts for it easy.
[image: View Post]TheWarrior17, on 17 February 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:
I really like this idea for a project! I'll be honest,I don't know much about cafe bikes and what makes a good cafe bike but how about a Kawasaki KZ? Like a KZ400 or KZ650? You could probably pick one up real cheap and find parts for it easy.
-Mike
Mike, I know very little abt that, too. And also don't really know what gonna be key points to make a good cafe racer anyway.
I would say the choice of the Honda CX (CX500, CX650, GL500) series is very personal. Just because I like their engine shape. It look tougher, more "bullyboy" than the other engine type.
Is that really that great of an idea, to put the battery at the bottom of engine where it will get lots of road debris and heat from the engine? It will get some air cooling, but still.
[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 15 February 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:
Hey Max1, I have a V50 as well (not a Monza). How many parts do you think will swap from that bike to ours? The frame and swing arm is exactly the same all these years later.
One of the others riders at the cafe was one a 650 Lario & to be honest apart from cosmetic stuff, they all had pretty much the same set up (don't know if the new bikes come with linked brakes though). I reckon you could get your V50 looking like one without to much trouble. The Monza & the V7 put out pretty much the same HP (48). Not that is matters, their still uncompromising with suspension, seating, great in the curves & sound bloody fantastic.
They have a cafe classic which looks even more familiar. [image: Posted Image] [image: Posted Image]
[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 17 February 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:
The ZRX1200 has some decent shocks that can be bought cheaply aftermarket, I used these on my CB750 cafe.
Really, just saw on ebay a pair of that starting bid @ $335. Ayza, that's too much!
Small update (but very important for me): Just paid for the Honda CX650. Deliver to my friend tomorrow AM.
Hayza... I have no way back now! :ph34r: :lobby:
I dont have a workshop of mine. So what I will do is getting the bike and sending to a workshop in HCMC. I will design my expected cafe, buy the parts, and supervise the boys dirty their hands.
My hardest part now not find ding the bike to purchase, but waiting for shipping here. Damn, that's long way, and long long time....
[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 17 February 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:
Is that really that great of an idea, to put the battery at the bottom of engine where it will get lots of road debris and heat from the engine? It will get some air cooling, but still.
Someone locate the battery right under the seat:
Enjoy your project! I have a 1980 cx500D, '78 cx500 & an 80 cx500C parts bike. The 80 is my commuter & since I picked it up in 04/2010 I have enjoyed over 18,000 TROUBLE FREE Miles, These bikes are bullet proof, put gas in, change the oil & they will run forever. I will keep an eye on this thread & when I get done painting my VFR I might need another project.
I 'd love to put the up-side-down front forks to the cafe, but I don't really want to put so much money on the project.
Anyone knows what is the budget up-side-down front forks on the market?
Thanks.
[image: View Post]VietHorse, on 20 February 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:
- Looking for small size with suitable capacity battery.
An Ultrabat is quite small and you can use it in any orientation, unlike a lead acid battery.
There are others, like Moty, Shorai or custom battery packs.
Thanks.
Exactly the one I have saved the image this morning (10hrs ago). :smile:
That looks so cool Timmy. As said, I love the black rims. They make the wheel look bigger.
Really love the Upside down front forks as the above Triday cafe.
Someone please tell me from which bike I could take those forks from for reasonable price?
The RC51 forks are a popular swap for the VFR, I have them on my 5G. I would guess the CBR or R6 forks would also swap in fine for a cafe bike. I used CB900 forks on my cafe build, they're not UPD but have that look. If you do go with a 160-180 tire/wheel combo remember you'll have to address the wheel alignment/offset. I used a 5" wheel on my CB750 but need a large offset drive sprocket to align the chain. Not sure how you would address this with the CX or how large you can go with the wheel/tire?
For the utilization of other bike's front forks to a CX cafe racer, I would say the main concerns should be the length of the forks, and also may be the traveling range of them. The rear forks of CX may remain unchanged. Therefore the replacement front forks should have suitable height so that would not make the front end too much higher or lower than the rear (for a cafe, the seat and gas tank looks the same elevation).
The upper triple clamp could be rebuilt, or even make a new one by CNC machine.
The lower triple clam should be reused.
For the max allowable tire/wheel size, I have no bike now to measure. Front may be flexible. Rear is shaft drive and I don't know how large it could go.
Frankly to say, I don't have real experiences for this. Above explanation is all my assumption.
@ Timmy: Thanks in advance. What 's (idle) length of the forks? I haven't seen any USD front forks for that bike. May you pls post some photos?
If possible, just pm me the asking price and if okay I can ask for shipping from my friend in Westminster CA.
the length looks to be good at 29.5 inches. for comparison, my 1980 CB400 has 29.0 forks, so the FZR forks look to be one of the longer ones (good for project)
PM sent.
Glenn
That's just cool...... looks like the batt is where VH wants to put his.......... Unless the owner is going to ride off road........... Needs some different tyres.
From the photo:
I love the way they deal with the seat. Looks simple and fit to my need that for two persons on bike sometimes.
Love the exhaust as well. This just big and long enough in compare with the bike. And the best thing of it was the visible of the drive shaft. I saw a lot of modified CX with drive shaft hidden behind the exhaust.
This is what I'm building a Dick Mann CB750 (for Me the CX is for the wife) the engine is at the machine shop having the works done..Bored and suck hehehehe can't wait to get it back.
[image: View Post]rescue13, on 05 April 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:
[image: View Post]VietHorse, on 05 April 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:
Like the color scheme also. Post here as a ref.:
This is what I'm building a Dick Mann CB750 (for Me the CX is for the wife) the engine is at the machine shop having the works done..Bored and suck hehehehe can't wait to get it back.
Wow.... You do not tell until I got the pic huh... Dont worry, I will not make mine identical with yours... Lol....
Honestly to say, that is really nice looking bike, especially the fairing.
I wonder if you could find them all available now.
[image: View Post]VietHorse, on 06 April 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:
Wow... real conversion is there.
Mine is still on paper.... Fingers still cross tightly. I'm thinking the fairing can be cut for fitting the opposed V-heads if you were going that way?
You rite, Monk. Especially for Vietnam market. It's very easy and very cheap (compare with where you are located) to modify or even make the fairing.
However, I still prefer the naked cafe racer. Love the way the bike shows how humble it is.
Hey horse. I dont know if I told you that we share tastes. I got one going on it's second year of fiddling too(but I have to admit, now I have a fancy pants garage, it is going much faster)....I give you....the TURD: [image: Posted Image]
If an early '60's cafe rider could see into the future and glimpse a VFR, he'd kill to have it. Now we have VFR's and look back on the nastalgia and want those old bikes : )
Great photos and discussion. There was a guy featured on Cafe Racer TV, I believe out of Illinois that made a really nice cafe bike based on the CX500. I also worked at a Honda Dealership in the mid-80's and got to ride the CX 650 turbo. It was pretty cool.
Damn the Photobucket today. It doesnot allow me to upload photos.
There are some interesting things which I don't want to upload to some temp. storage or buy another account.
Wait...
I know mountain bicycles use mono shocks in a direct configuration... Obviously these have very reduced shock travel compared to a motorcycle, just curious how this might apply in this situation.
The direct configuration of rear mono sock will make the shock very stiff.
I may try to install the suspension linkage to make it works smoothly; but don't know It has enough room for the linkage or not.
Haizzz.. My bike still not delivered yet...
[image: View Post]jeremy77, on 28 April 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:
I know mountain bicycles use mono shocks in a direct configuration
Motorcycles too, like the Aprilia Shiver and Ducati Panigale (well almost direct). But like vfrcapn and veefer800canuck mention you need a shock that matches this configuration. Revalving & respringing will most lilley be necessary. A link system makes the suspension very progressive, the direct configuration is almost linear sometime even slightly regressive.
From a communication with the owner of above BMW cafe racer, he has given me a lot of useful information, especially for the monoshock make.
Really supportive and very informative guy.
Here is his reference for the Sub-frame making and monoshock configuration - Ducati SS 1999.
That's called "Monoshock, older style, regular swingarm"
Quote
In 1977, the first monoshock system appeared to niche markets and racers. It has actually been around in one form or another since the 1930's, but it was only in the early 80's that monoshocks started to appear on production bikes. Monoshock is actually a Yamaha trademark, but it has become synonymous with the design in the same way as people in the UK refer to vacuum cleaners as hoovers. (The Honda version is called Pro-Link). The premise was that manufacturers could save some weight by redesigning the rear suspension and removing one of the coilover units. Monoshocks are still coilovers, but there's only one and it's mounted centrally to the swingarm. On earlier models, the rear swingarm was a sort of basket with a linkage at the top-front. The monoshock sat nearly horizontal in the bike.
[image: View Post]thumper, on 28 April 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:
If an early '60's cafe rider could see into the future and glimpse a VFR, he'd kill to have it. Now we have VFR's and look back on the nastalgia and want those old bikes : )
Yeah, isn't it ironic?
I saw a Guzzi V7 Racer today for the first time, well on the internet, and wow, I want! I would prefer last year's model with the chrome tank, but a '12 with the black tank will do.
[image: View Post]auggius, on 30 April 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:
[image: View Post]thumper, on 28 April 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:
If an early '60's cafe rider could see into the future and glimpse a VFR, he'd kill to have it. Now we have VFR's and look back on the nastalgia and want those old bikes : )
Yeah, isn't it ironic?
I saw a Guzzi V7 Racer today for the first time, well on the internet, and wow, I want! I would prefer last year's model with the chrome tank, but a '12 with the black tank will do.
They are cool, now if it had dual disc up front.... Just me....... more brake less effort.
the gizzi system is front brake lever does the front-right disc. the brake pedal does the rear disc and the front-left disc.
This does indeed suck. Allmost as much as guzzi iron rotors rusting over night. My next cafe bike will be my guzzi v50, that I have hidden away for too many years. [image: Posted Image]
Its too bad that V.Horse lives 5000 miles away or we could compare the v50 to the cx500.
[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 01 May 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:
the gizzi system is front brake lever does the front-right disc. the brake pedal does the rear disc and the front-left disc.
Are you kidding? First time I heard about such funny arrangement!
Well, I 've never seen any Guzzi moto in person.
[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 01 May 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:
Its too bad that V.Horse lives 5000 miles away or we could compare the v50 to the cx500.
I believe that Lav is a Jota (triple) My brother owns and used to race an SFC clone. Nothing boring about that engine, prolly the fastest air cooled 750 twin I have ever ridden. [image: Posted Image]
My father was one of the first people in Europe to own a 1973 Laverda 750 when they were released that year. At the time, it was the fastest production bike money could buy.
[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 04 May 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:
I believe that Lav is a Jota (triple) My brother owns and used to race an SFC clone. Nothing boring about that engine, prolly the fastest air cooled 750 twin I have ever ridden.
Next time you visit the KLPD, go to the town center where you'll find a small Laverda service center. He's got some nice bikes in his shop window and about another dozen outside next to the shop. Don't expect the owner to give you the grand tour as he is a very busy man with only time for his Laverda clientèle that comes from all over the world. A former neighbour of mine has one of the latest models, a 750 Formula, beautifull (sounding) bike.
[image: View Post]V4 Rosso, on 30 April 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:
[image: View Post]VietHorse, on 28 April 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:
A simple example of suspension linkage:
Yes, but this kind of linkage has a different purpose, it is to keep the damper from being lateraly loaded.
A linkage working [image: Posted Image] Edited by keny, 08 May 2012 - 07:07 AM.
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