Bt021 Needs New Life

I picked up a new/1000 mile rear BT021 with a puncture today from a friend. What I want to know is, can I repair this safely and use it. I have about 5 of these tires that I have picked up in the last year with 1000 miles or less with punctures approx in the same locations and it seems like such a shame not use a few. I have been doing a bit of research this morning and have found no conclusive data that states a puncture should or should not be used. Personal preference, recommendations and suggestions only. I have included the first pic to show where the puncture is and the type. The second picture is something I found in Larry's Busy Little Shop photo album link. This shows a diagram of puncture/plug repair that seems to state the areas of possible repair and the areas that are non-repairable. What else is available on this subject? What is the best material, kit and procedure to complete this task sucessfully. I have repaired a flat on the road and made it home safely, so I know the basics and can manage this.

BT021 Puncture

Larry's Busy Little Shop Photo Album of Diagram

Thanks for your help.

Lots of opinions on this subject. :biggrin: I would repair the tire with a mushroom plug from the inside. I've done it before and had no problems, but I've only done it once or twice. This is my opinion.

Gummy worm it and go!

I love BT021s, but only the rears. If you can plug it, ride it!

You'd have been better off leaving the penetrant it and just slime the tire with about 4 to 6 ounces.

I've not had good luck with external plugs, other than 500 miles or so, I have had one go the life of the tire.

But if you run 130 mph alot , you really need quality chit that works, and that doent really exist in a external Create abigger whole and plug package .

The 020 were great tires with a lot of life in them. Sure the 021 can't be much different. Use the plug patch from the inside, since you already have the tires off the rim. Look at the inside of the carcass for dry cracking appearance. Who knows how long the guy who owned it ran it on zero pressure. May be burned up.

If all looks good and the tire holds air you should consider it more of a touring/commuting tire than a Z rated sport tire. Just don't forget you're riding on a plugged tire and start doing max speed runs on a hot desert highway.

Check pressure frequently. Make sure you re balance for the patch.

[image: View Post]achfly, on May 14 2009, 03:15 PM, said:

I love BT021s, but only the rears. If you can plug it, ride it!What do you run on the front with the 021 rear. Thinking of going back to this tire when my 016 and 002 are all done.

my humble opinion (or not). you should feel totally safe on a properly repaired tire................or don't use it!

apples and oranges example but. tractor trailers (18 wheelers) get flats and repairs all the time. i have never had nor heard of a tire patch failure and i am not refering to the sticky string stuff! all trucks today run tubeless tires at or about 105 psi carrying a load over 4400#s each in the deserts during the summer where road temps are well over 130 degrees at 80+mph. RIDE IT! :cool:

[image: View Post]Tightwad, on May 14 2009, 03:14 PM, said:

Gummy worm it and go!

What he said! I'm running a wormed rear BT-021 that saw 109 degrees all afternoon two-up after I picked up a screw that morning. Nearly toast now but not quite.

I agree with Larry's diagram of where on the tire it's acceptable to repair. Sidewall injury is terminal.

BTW, I've got a Michelin PR2 on the front. Great combination now, but spooky the first 500 miles. Really weird non-feedback on turn-in at intersections had me thinking the front end was gone for a brief instant. Others have reported this, too. After a couple of really hard burns up the Virginia City truck route, that issue disappeared. Like many, I love the BT-021 rear.

EDIT: Yes, if you have the tire off, then use a patch from the inside. Strongest fix.

I would patch it from the inside and run it. I worked at a Goodyear shop for several years in high school and college. We patched tires all of the time and never had issues. I would not however plug them. Pushing a plug in the tire actually spreads the belts apart causing more damage. Goodyear approves the patches, but does not approve plugs as an approved repair.

Of course if I was sitting on the side of the road and had to get somewhere, I would plug the tire in a heartbeat, then either patch it later or just replace the tire.

Well, I definitely appreciate your responses and it sounds like more people run with it than I thought. It also sounds like going with the mushroom and not the gummy stuff is better if I am okay with it. I have used the gummy stuff before to repair a road flat.
No, I do not plan on track day use nor wicked mountain stuff, but I would like to think of it as a normal tire and ride it like it should be ridden. So what I take out of this is no hot and fast stuff on a plugged tire? Damn that then takes all the fun out of it huh?

The interior looks great. The guy noticed it in the morning when he went out to go to work. So it had not been tore up.

I do like the BTO21�s and I have run both front and rear. I have also run the BT020�s many times and loved them. Just went through my last rear tire this past weekend. I also have a set of new BT016�s waiting to be installed. How have they treated you? I have heard good things.

So again I feel the concensous of opinion around here is repair and ride it.

Is there anything I should be aware of when using the mushroom plug? Any special technique that has worked better in the past?

Thanks again

The ?fix my tire question? is almost like an oil thread, so I must post this again. :biggrin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdFpqY00GRk...feature=related

[image: View Post]DougFromIndy, on May 14 2009, 08:30 PM, said:

The ?fix my tire question? is almost like an oil thread, so I must post this again. :biggrin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdFpqY00GRk...feature=related
ok, great footage, but what is your point? do you think matt maladin was riding a repaired tire? everyone knows even a new tire with no issues can suffer road abuse and come apart!

[image: View Post]VFR FLYER, on May 14 2009, 11:52 PM, said:

[image: View Post]DougFromIndy, on May 14 2009, 08:30 PM, said:

The ?fix my tire question? is almost like an oil thread, so I must post this again. :biggrin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdFpqY00GRk...feature=related
ok, great footage, but what is your point? do you think matt maladin was riding a repaired tire? everyone knows even a new tire with no issues can suffer road abuse and come apart!

A great rider can walk away from a failed tire, I think Mat is an excellent rider. I would fix a tire with a inside patch and ride it IMO.
I really think in street use you would just get a slow leak and is nothing to worry about.

Currently I am riding a BT 021 wiyh a gummy string plug in it. It has over 1500 miles on the repair, I took it easy on it at first but it shows no signs of leaing or degrading. Now I just ride it like I would any other tire.

Last year I plugged a rear tire (Diablo Strada) with the old style tire plug, rode it like that for 8k miles and never had any trouble. I road two up, with some 300mile trips and it never failed, or lost air. I had 1k miles on the tire when I picked up the nail and could bring myself to throw it away.

[I used and was told by the mechanic that Slime is corrosive to the rims.The Valkyrie Forum that I also belong stand by the tire sealant put out by Stop-n-Go--Not Slime.
quote name='spud786' date='May 14 2009, 05:44 PM' post='612982']
You'd have been better off leaving the penetrant it and just slime the tire with about 4 to 6 ounces.

I've not had good luck with external plugs, other than 500 miles or so, I have had one go the life of the tire.

But if you run 130 mph alot , you really need quality chit that works, and that doent really exist in a external Create abigger whole and plug package .
[/quote]

I hear that slime may be corrosive to chrome wheels and not recommended, but I dont have those.

Ive used the stop and go mushrooms, and I carry, I had a z6 rear with a hole dead center in the tire. I plugged with a mushroom, 500 mile it was leaking, installed another mushroom , in addition added 8 oz of slime. Tested to 130 mph for imbalance, worked extremely well. IMO 4 to 6 oz is better though.

But after 1000 mile, I decided to replace the tire, and drilled a hole in the tire, no slime came out. Under my wheel well was coated in green slime. All that slime had made it past that mush room plug. A very neat plugging device, but still a temp fix.

slime is cheap and readily available, next time I get a simple nail, I'm not plugging it, leave it and just slime it.

Sometimes if I run tires sub wear bar on the reear, I will slime for added saftey, my last BT21 rear had 4 ounces of slime in it. I decided to replace and punched an AWL, clear through the tire, green bubble appeared but no leak.

I see value there


not sure what the stopand go sealant costs, but some of that stuff is 30 or 40 dollars , like ride on

Picked up a new patch kit this weekend to resupply and freshen up my road kit. It came with the gummy style plugs and interior patches. Is the contact "cement" that comes with a common kit good stuff or is there something better. I will most certainly never use the slime unless on the road and with nothing else available. I hate that stuff and I replace my own tires, what a mess. What are the old style plugs? Is this the type with the metal spike and patch installed from the interior? While I have repaired road side flats with the gummy stuff I would get home and replace the tire. In other words, I have not ridden on one for an extended amout of time and have never noticed the material oozing out. Does this happen and could this cause any issues? I would imagine, like mentioned above if your not riding in super hot conditions this may or may not occur (May have just answered my own question). Just not clear on that. Would there be any reason not to use the gummy and the interior patch?

Thanks for you input

[image: View Post]RIDER_44, on May 14 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

What else is available on this subject?

BLS guide to tire repair...

Minor tire repair is limited to an area of three quarters of the
normal section width. The maximum diameter of penetration damage
and/or cracking at the base of the injury should be no greater than
3mm. The repair patches must not overlap. If a tire is deemed suitable for
repair (by a professional) then follow the instructions provided by the
manufacturer of the repair material.

For permanent repair,it is only recommended that small punctures
restricted to the tread area be repaired, using a rope type plug. The
current condition of a tire is important in determining whether a tire
is suitable for repair. Some damage limits include: if the tire has
reached its minimum tread depth as indicated by the TWI (tire wear
indicator); ply separation, separation of inner liner and or cutting
of ply cords by penetrating object; brittle or cracked rubber caused
by exhaust heat; broken or bent bead wire, damaged bead zone; damage
caused by under-inflation; softening or swelling of rubber due to oil
or chemical attack; punctures too close together; damage or previous
repair of a puncture outside of area specified for suitable repair.
[image: Posted Image]

My screwed Rennsport... boo hoo
[image: Posted Image]

My glugged Rennsport that covered 2K miles and not in moderation either...
keep it a secret but it's seen over a buck 40 more than once...
[image: Posted Image]

Inside the Rennsport for proof that the rope type plugs stay intact whereas
my mushroom tyre plug started to come unstuck
[image: Posted Image]

I'm using the BMW tire repair kit with the rope type plugs
[image: Posted Image]

Nylon Rope type plugs found at any auto parts store...
[image: Posted Image]

I don't recommend the mushroom type plugs...
[image: Posted Image]


What the Manufactures say about tire repairs:

Metzeler quote: "According to the specific regulations of different
country governments, a general recommendation regarding tyre repair
cannot be given. For your country, please refer to your distributor.
In case a repair is permitted, METZELER is only recommending the
repair of small punctures restricted to the tread area using a
mushroom head type plug. The repair of a punctured tubeless tyre by
means of fitting a tube is not permitted" .


Dunlop quote: "Any puncture or injury to a tire's tread area obviously
affects performance and safety. Proper repair is critical. The
puncture must be repaired on both the inside and the outside of the
tire. Because all parts of a tire are engineered to function as a
single unit, any repair must take that into consideration. Only
small, straight-through 3/16" diameter or less punctures in the tread
area may be repairable, if no secondary damage has occurred."

NOTE: A tire repair can be properly made only if the tire is removed
from the rim; a thorough internal inspection is carried out; and the
repair is made from the inside out. A repair must fill and seal the
injury, i.e. vulcanized plug and patch. Only specially trained
Technicians are qualified to repair a tire. Do not attempt to repair
it yourself.

Dunlop Safety Advisory, Speed Rated Tires: Repaired tires must not be
used in excess of posted speed limits, in race or other competition.
Speed ratings are not valid for repaired, re-treaded, under-inflated
or overloaded, excessively worn, damaged or altered tires. "



Bridgestone quote: Riding on an improperly repaired tire is dangerous.
An improper repair can cause further damage to the tire. It may
suddenly fail, causing serious personal injury or death. To be safe,
go to your local dealer for proper tire repairs.

Before having a tire repaired, tell your local dealer if you have used
an aerosol banned! to inflate/ seal the tire. Aerosol fixers could
contain a highly volatile gas. Always remove the valve core outdoors,
away from sources of excessive heat, flame, or sparks and completely
deflate the tire before removing it from the rim for repair.

* Never repair a tire with less than 1/32nd inch (0.8 millimeters)
tread remaining. At this tread depth, the tire is worn out and must be
replaced. * Never repair a tire with a puncture larger than 1/4 inch
(6.4 millimeters) in diameter. Such tires cannot be properly repaired
and must be replaced. * Repairs of all tires (radial and non-radial)
must be of the plug and inside patch type. Using plugs alone on any
type of tire is not a safe repair. * Never repair a tire with a
puncture or other damage outside the tread area. Such tires cannot be
properly repaired and must be replaced. * Any tire repair done without
removing the tire from the rim is improper. * Tubes, like tires,
should be repaired only by a qualified tire service person. * Never
use a tube as a substitute for a proper repair.

A tire's speed rating is void if the tire is repaired, retreaded,
damaged or abused, or otherwise altered from its original condition.
Thereafter, it should be treated as a non-speed-rated tire.


Michelin quote: In case of a flat, take the tire to your Michelin�
motorcycle tire dealer. Only a professional tire technician has the
expertise to properly inspect a tire for damage and determine its
repairability.

[image: View Post]Tightwad, on May 14 2009, 06:14 PM, said:

Gummy worm it and go!
A huge :+1: to that one.
I wouldn't even think twice.
If I threw away every punctured tire, I'd go broke in no time.
Plugged every tire I ever had more than once and never had problems.

Lots of opinions on this, mostly based on "I did <whatever> and didn't have any problems..."
I've had a worm plug blow out, on the highway, at speed. It wasn't a big deal, but I still won't be
doing that ever again. The subsequent internal patch was fine, and I think I would be OK with that
in the future.

[image: View Post]pserve, on May 19 2009, 12:58 PM, said:

Lots of opinions on this, mostly based on "I did <whatever> and didn't have any problems..."
I've had a worm plug blow out, on the highway, at speed. It wasn't a big deal, but I still won't be
doing that ever again. The subsequent internal patch was fine, and I think I would be OK with that
in the future.

What??? you had a Safety Seal type plug blow out??? and what speed are you talking about???

[image: Posted Image]

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on May 19 2009, 04:14 PM, said:

What??? you had a Safety Seal type plug blow out??? and what speed are you talking about???

[image: Posted Image]

If that's what those are called, then yes. I was probably doing 50 or so at the time. It did hold up
for a little while, but just wasn't permanent. I would use another one as a temp just to limp back to
a shop, but not as a long-term fix. That wasn't on my VFR, btw.

[image: View Post]pserve, on May 19 2009, 01:40 PM, said:

/quote]

If that's what those are called, then yes. I was probably doing 50 or so at the time. It did hold up
for a little while, but just wasn't permanent. I would use another one as a temp just to limp back to
a shop, but not as a long-term fix. That wasn't on my VFR, btw.

How did you install the plug into the tire???

That was great info, thanks. I was able to find the same thing...you beat me to the punch. I am glad you posted it. This info is not just for me but others who have the same questions as well. I appreciate the photos, it gives more evidence that this is acceptable. Did not realize though, how many actually do the repair and ride. I would say from what I have read, it seems that approx half of the people out there repair and ride. Figures, I would get a 50/50 split, considering the topic. Once a plug is installed on the road, I guess the confidence in it's ability to be effective would then play a major role in your willingness to continue to ride and do it again. A portion of the Bridgestone Quote: "* Repairs of all tires (radial and non-radial) must be of the plug and inside patch type." I had asked the question earlier if it would be better to plug and patch? I quess if I take Bridgestones advice and others then, I am off and running. From the pic of the rensport with the "evidence that safety plugs stay"...I should then prep the interior surface of the tire, install the plug from the inside of the tire, cut excess plug, apply contact sealant and patch? Yet, in the photo it only shows a safety plug and it seems your confident with that? I guess I am just curious why you did not do both? Maybe you did but, I think your point was to show that a safety plug (when done properly) stays intact.

Thanks again everyone for your input.

[image: View Post]RIDER_44, on May 19 2009, 08:20 PM, said:

From the pic of the rensport with the "evidence that safety plugs stay"...I should then prep the interior surface of the tire, install the plug from the inside of the tire, cut excess plug, apply contact sealant and patch? Yet, in the photo it only shows a safety plug and it seems your confident with that? I guess I am just curious why you did not do both? Maybe you did but, I think your point was to show that a safety plug (when done properly) stays intact.

Thanks again everyone for your input.

You're welcome but my safety seal plug was installed from the outside in because by design you
want the loop of rope inside the carcass which will form a mushroom shape that will not jettison during
inflation...

I was so confident that I forgot all about the plug and hit the Reno Fernly track going 150...

You can see by the diagram that Safety Seal plugs that are installed properly establish an mushroom
shape inside the carcass that holds fast under pressure... you'd have more luck pushing the plug inside
carcass than you'll ever have it pop out under pressure...

[image: Posted Image]

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on May 19 2009, 07:06 PM, said:

How did you install the plug into the tire???
Don't know what to say... I'm quite sure mine was installed like the picture, but just didn't hold.
Maybe I'm wrong about that. Who knows? After patching it from the inside, I had no more
trouble. I guess everyone just has to do whatever they're comfortable with.

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on May 20 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

[image: View Post]RIDER_44, on May 19 2009, 08:20 PM, said:

From the pic of the rensport with the "evidence that safety plugs stay"...I should then prep the interior surface of the tire, install the plug from the inside of the tire, cut excess plug, apply contact sealant and patch? Yet, in the photo it only shows a safety plug and it seems your confident with that? I guess I am just curious why you did not do both? Maybe you did but, I think your point was to show that a safety plug (when done properly) stays intact.

Thanks again everyone for your input.

You're welcome but my safety seal plug was installed from the outside in because by design you
want the loop of rope inside the carcass which will form a mushroom shape that will not jettison during
inflation...

I was so confident that I forgot all about the plug and hit the Reno Fernly track going 150...

You can see by the diagram that Safety Seal plugs that are installed properly establish an mushroom
shape inside the carcass that holds fast under pressure... you'd have more luck pushing the plug inside
carcass than you'll ever have it pop out under pressure...

[image: Posted Image]



Busy,

I'm confused, I've seen you post the saftey seals a number of times, but they looked like simple threaded goo worms

are you creating the loop or are they pre looped?

When I have done it, with success, I threaded the worm 1/2 way onto the tool, inserted the tool through the hole, twisted as told to do, then removed the tool, leaving the worm behind.