Chicken Stripes

Can anyone offer me a logical explanation as to why the chicken stripes on a bike are always wider on the front tire than the rear tire?

What is the relationship (or is there one) between chicken stripe width and proper set-up of a bike?

Uhmmm... I dunno....effects of countersteering???

Beck
95 VFR

[image: View Post]Beck, on Jun 5 2009, 04:01 PM, said:

Uhmmm... I dunno....effects of countersteering???

Beck
95 VFR

I'm pretty sure it has to do with the size and shape differences between the two tires. The rear is typically shaped in such a way that, when you get into your lean, you'll reach the edge much quicker than you will on your front. A 180 rear is more "U" shaped, while a 120 front is shaped more like half a tennis ball. My best guess...

Chicken strips come off through a combination of lean + pressure on the tire. On the rear tire, this happens while getting on the gas coming out of a corner... a fairly common occurance for most riders. The lean, combined with the tire getting further 'squished' due to the weight transfer to the rear, can force the tire down to it's edge or beyond. Scrubbing the strips off of the front, on the other hand, mean that you need weight on the front while leaned over, which is what you get while trail-braking deep into a corner... not so common for alot of riders, which is why most have much larger strips on the front then the rear.

At my most recent trackday this past weekend, I was getting more comfortable with trail-braking almost up to the apex of a few corners. By the end of the day, both my front and rear tires had about 1/8" of chicken strip left...

[image: Posted Image]

These are on a bike? :huh:

[image: Posted Image]

[image: View Post]sckego, on Jun 5 2009, 02:22 PM, said:

Chicken strips come off through a combination of lean + pressure on the tire. On the rear tire, this happens while getting on the gas coming out of a corner... a fairly common occurance for most riders. The lean, combined with the tire getting further 'squished' due to the weight transfer to the rear, can force the tire down to it's edge or beyond. Scrubbing the strips off of the front, on the other hand, mean that you need weight on the front while leaned over, which is what you get while trail-braking deep into a corner... not so common for alot of riders, which is why most have much larger strips on the front then the rear.

At my most recent trackday this past weekend, I was getting more comfortable with trail-braking almost up to the apex of a few corners. By the end of the day, both my front and rear tires had about 1/8" of chicken strip left...

[image: Posted Image]

That makes sense, I usually completely remove anything on my rear - however I will have 3/4 to 1/2 inch left on my front tire. I usually dont trail brake ever, preferring to brake before the turn the powering trough as I reach the turn. I also have a habit of dragging the rear brake on very tight turns so that probaly makes the it worse.

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on Jun 5 2009, 03:40 PM, said:

[image: View Post]sckego, on Jun 5 2009, 02:22 PM, said:

Chicken strips come off through a combination of lean + pressure on the tire. On the rear tire, this happens while getting on the gas coming out of a corner... a fairly common occurance for most riders. The lean, combined with the tire getting further 'squished' due to the weight transfer to the rear, can force the tire down to it's edge or beyond. Scrubbing the strips off of the front, on the other hand, mean that you need weight on the front while leaned over, which is what you get while trail-braking deep into a corner... not so common for alot of riders, which is why most have much larger strips on the front then the rear.

At my most recent trackday this past weekend, I was getting more comfortable with trail-braking almost up to the apex of a few corners. By the end of the day, both my front and rear tires had about 1/8" of chicken strip left...

[image: Posted Image]

That makes sense, I usually completely remove anything on my rear - however I will have 3/4 to 1/2 inch left on my front tire. I usually dont trail brake ever, preferring to brake before the turn the powering trough as I reach the turn. I also have a habit of dragging the rear brake on very tight turns so that probaly makes the it worse.


+1 first time in my life, my front had NO strips and the rear had a small one on my track bike....definitely trail braking and the rear was the wrong size/pressure, causing it to fold improperly on the rear. on the VFr, i almost never trail brake and i have 1/2+ on the front.

thanks for explaining that.

I'm wondering if it has more to do with the aspect ratio of the tires (i.e., the cross section).

The rear tire on a VFR is a 180/55 while the front is a 120/70. Perhaps if both tires were /55 or /70 in aspect ratio the stripes would be the same. The rear, being a /55, is actually "flatter shaped" than the front tire.

The reason this topic interests me so much, is that I had a "track day rider/racer" tell me that if you have more chicken stripes on the front than you do the rear, it means you need to jack the rear of the bike up. Well I did that on my KTM. Problem is my riding style is to really crank it over quick entering a turn (Keith Code style). I had several instances where the rear stepped out on me when I flicked it over quick and hard. However, my chicken stripes at the end of the day were all the way to the edge front and rear.

Tires can tell you a lot. For example, if you don't have any strips on the back, but have quite a bit on the front, your ride height is probably off. To fix that, you raise the rear. (provided sag is set, tires are at correct pressure, etc)

They shouldn't be perfectly even, you want an 1/8 to a 1/4 inch on the front when the rear is to the edge. (for up to say, 8/10ths riding pace)

That's my 2 cents, based on what I've read and heard. I'm no expert though!

[image: View Post]turtlecreek, on Jun 5 2009, 04:15 PM, said:

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on Jun 5 2009, 03:40 PM, said:

[image: View Post]sckego, on Jun 5 2009, 02:22 PM, said:

Chicken strips come off through a combination of lean + pressure on the tire. On the rear tire, this happens while getting on the gas coming out of a corner... a fairly common occurance for most riders. The lean, combined with the tire getting further 'squished' due to the weight transfer to the rear, can force the tire down to it's edge or beyond. Scrubbing the strips off of the front, on the other hand, mean that you need weight on the front while leaned over, which is what you get while trail-braking deep into a corner... not so common for alot of riders, which is why most have much larger strips on the front then the rear.

At my most recent trackday this past weekend, I was getting more comfortable with trail-braking almost up to the apex of a few corners. By the end of the day, both my front and rear tires had about 1/8" of chicken strip left...

[image: Posted Image]

That makes sense, I usually completely remove anything on my rear - however I will have 3/4 to 1/2 inch left on my front tire. I usually dont trail brake ever, preferring to brake before the turn the powering trough as I reach the turn. I also have a habit of dragging the rear brake on very tight turns so that probaly makes the it worse.


+1 first time in my life, my front had NO strips and the rear had a small one on my track bike....definitely trail braking and the rear was the wrong size/pressure, causing it to fold improperly on the rear. on the VFr, i almost never trail brake and i have 1/2+ on the front.

thanks for explaining that.


Dale, if you would lose some weight, you might have some chicken strips. You still using six ply tires?? :laugh: :laugh:

The smart ass is back..... :ph34r: :beer:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Jun 5 2009, 06:34 PM, said:

I'm no expert though!

But everyone on this site thinks you are! :biggrin:

A question was raised on what creates disparity of wear
between the front and rear...

I drafted a scale drawing of a set of tires to find the answer...

A... shows a 120 / 70 / 17...
B... shows a 190 / 50 / 17...
C... shows the disparity between the front and rear...

I believe tire disparity exist because the front's edge rest above the
ground higher than the rear's edge... As you can see as both edges are
leaned towards the asphalt... rear edge (B) will be first to kiss the
asphalt before the front edge (A)... the amount of disparity is
represented by ( C )...

So... if your rear tire is worn to the edge but the front shows a small
chicken strip??? it's ( C ) tire disparity... To erase that last bit of chicken
strip go to a race track... it's too hair ball on the street...


[image: Posted Image]

Uh, dude, you just aint leanin' that sucker enough...wheeee!

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on Jun 5 2009, 10:30 PM, said:

A question was raised on what creates disparity of wear
between the front and rear...

I drafted a scale drawing of a set of tires to find the answer...

A... shows a 120 / 70 / 17...
B... shows a 190 / 50 / 17...
C... shows the disparity between the front and rear...

I believe tire disparity exist because the front's edge rest above the
ground higher than the rear's edge... As you can see as both edges are
leaned towards the asphalt... rear edge (B) will be first to kiss the
asphalt before the front edge (A)... the amount of disparity is
represented by ( C )...

So... if your rear tire is worn to the edge but the front shows a small
chicken strip??? it's ( C ) tire disparity... To erase that last bit of chicken
strip go to a race track... it's too hair ball on the street...


[image: Posted Image]


Great diagram. I always enjoy your provided visual stimulation. You certainly have more time on your hands than you need. :biggrin: :) I do agree with it but, the tire is not always in a continuos static state, flex in the tires occur and is created from the momentum and forces of transferred weight either by applying the brakes before or into a corner and out of a corner the tire will load/release and flex to cope with these forces, not to mention the difference in width and height of the tire selections, air pressure, compound, suspension, etc. Though that is probably the correct way to describe this effect with the majority of the VFR riders, due to the fact that they are not even close to being as aggressive on the street as they would be a track and that is a good thing. I will also have to concur that, playing on the edge is for the track...not the street.

[image: View Post]RIDER_44, on Jun 6 2009, 02:12 AM, said:

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on Jun 5 2009, 10:30 PM, said:

A question was raised on what creates disparity of wear
between the front and rear...

I drafted a scale drawing of a set of tires to find the answer...

A... shows a 120 / 70 / 17...
B... shows a 190 / 50 / 17...
C... shows the disparity between the front and rear...

I believe tire disparity exist because the front's edge rest above the
ground higher than the rear's edge... As you can see as both edges are
leaned towards the asphalt... rear edge (B) will be first to kiss the
asphalt before the front edge (A)... the amount of disparity is
represented by ( C )...

So... if your rear tire is worn to the edge but the front shows a small
chicken strip??? it's ( C ) tire disparity... To erase that last bit of chicken
strip go to a race track... it's too hair ball on the street...


[image: Posted Image]


Great diagram. I always enjoy your provided visual stimulation. You certainly have more time on your hands than you need. :biggrin: :) I do agree with it but, the tire is not always in a continuos static state, flex in the tires occur and is created from the momentum and forces of transferred weight either by applying the brakes before or into a corner and out of a corner the tire will load/release and flex to cope with these forces, not to mention the difference in width and height of the tire selections, air pressure, compound, suspension, etc. Though that is probably the correct way to describe this effect with the majority of the VFR riders, due to the fact that they are not even close to being as aggressive on the street as they would be a track and that is a good thing. I will also have to concur that, playing on the edge is for the track...not the street.



My God, that was technical...yet, I'm still playing for the edge, track or not

Threads like these are why I love this forum! Lots of smart people :comp13:

For the first time, on any bike, my rear only has 1/4 inch showing on the edge (I've been pushing myself this year to ride better and harder so I improve).



:lurk:

[image: View Post]RIDER_44, on Jun 5 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

I will also have to concur that, playing on the edge is for the track...not the street.

I don't play for edge on the street... it just happens on Mr.RC45...

All street miles... no track...

[image: View Post]Bent, on Jun 5 2009, 05:59 PM, said:

[image: View Post]turtlecreek, on Jun 5 2009, 04:15 PM, said:

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on Jun 5 2009, 03:40 PM, said:

[image: View Post]sckego, on Jun 5 2009, 02:22 PM, said:

Chicken strips come off through a combination of lean + pressure on the tire. On the rear tire, this happens while getting on the gas coming out of a corner... a fairly common occurance for most riders. The lean, combined with the tire getting further 'squished' due to the weight transfer to the rear, can force the tire down to it's edge or beyond. Scrubbing the strips off of the front, on the other hand, mean that you need weight on the front while leaned over, which is what you get while trail-braking deep into a corner... not so common for alot of riders, which is why most have much larger strips on the front then the rear.

At my most recent trackday this past weekend, I was getting more comfortable with trail-braking almost up to the apex of a few corners. By the end of the day, both my front and rear tires had about 1/8" of chicken strip left...

[image: Posted Image]

That makes sense, I usually completely remove anything on my rear - however I will have 3/4 to 1/2 inch left on my front tire. I usually dont trail brake ever, preferring to brake before the turn the powering trough as I reach the turn. I also have a habit of dragging the rear brake on very tight turns so that probaly makes the it worse.


+1 first time in my life, my front had NO strips and the rear had a small one on my track bike....definitely trail braking and the rear was the wrong size/pressure, causing it to fold improperly on the rear. on the VFr, i almost never trail brake and i have 1/2+ on the front.

thanks for explaining that.


Dale, if you would lose some weight, you might have some chicken strips. You still using six ply tires?? :laugh: :laugh:

The smart ass is back..... :ph34r: :beer:


first how am i going to lose weigt if i keep having chicken strips? second, i might try some, except evertime i go to bea's with you, you clean the chicken plate before it ever gets around to me! :laugh: welcome back!! :biggrin:

Welcome back Jim!! We've missed ya! (I have anyway)

For the first time ever, I have zero strips front or rear. It took a trip down NC28 to take care of that! I am loving the PP/PR2 combo!

Ya gotta point there, Dale. I heard Bea's is near Chapter 11 because we haven't been there in too long. We need to go help them out!

Seb, Hwy. 28 is a blast but you're supposed to have a little bit of strip on the front. Those rock banks are hard! Those Hogs on the way to The Gap must be pushing you up 28 at a high rate of speed..... :laugh:

[image: View Post]Bent, on Jun 8 2009, 10:48 AM, said:

Ya gotta point there, Dale. I heard Bea's is near Chapter 11 because we haven't been there in too long. We need to go help them out!

Seb, Hwy. 28 is a blast but you're supposed to have a little bit of strip on the front. Those rock banks are hard! Those Hogs on the way to The Gap must be pushing you up 28 at a high rate of speed..... :laugh:

Hey, don't talk about Bailey like that, he might ban ya!! :ph34r: :biggrin:

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on Jun 6 2009, 01:30 AM, said:

A question was raised on what creates disparity of wear
between the front and rear...

I drafted a scale drawing of a set of tires to find the answer...

A... shows a 120 / 70 / 17...
B... shows a 190 / 50 / 17...
C... shows the disparity between the front and rear...

I believe tire disparity exist because the front's edge rest above the
ground higher than the rear's edge... As you can see as both edges are
leaned towards the asphalt... rear edge (B) will be first to kiss the
asphalt before the front edge (A)... the amount of disparity is
represented by ( C )...

So... if your rear tire is worn to the edge but the front shows a small
chicken strip??? it's ( C ) tire disparity... To erase that last bit of chicken
strip go to a race track... it's too hair ball on the street...


[image: Posted Image]

Excellent explanation and drawing.

No sarcasm intended, I didn't know anyone knew how to draw by hand anymore except myself (I'm real old school, literally). We've got this little program here at work called AutoCad.

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on Jun 6 2009, 04:06 AM, said:

[image: View Post]RIDER_44, on Jun 5 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

I will also have to concur that, playing on the edge is for the track...not the street.

I don't play for edge on the street... it just happens on Mr.RC45...

All street miles... no track...





Same with me on my Duke II.

[image: View Post]Pete McCrary, on Jun 8 2009, 11:44 AM, said:

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on Jun 6 2009, 01:30 AM, said:

A question was raised on what creates disparity of wear
between the front and rear...

I drafted a scale drawing of a set of tires to find the answer...

A... shows a 120 / 70 / 17...
B... shows a 190 / 50 / 17...
C... shows the disparity between the front and rear...

I believe tire disparity exist because the front's edge rest above the
ground higher than the rear's edge... As you can see as both edges are
leaned towards the asphalt... rear edge (B) will be first to kiss the
asphalt before the front edge (A)... the amount of disparity is
represented by ( C )...

So... if your rear tire is worn to the edge but the front shows a small
chicken strip??? it's ( C ) tire disparity... To erase that last bit of chicken
strip go to a race track... it's too hair ball on the street...


[image: Posted Image]

Excellent explanation and drawing.

No sarcasm intended, I didn't know anyone knew how to draw by hand anymore except myself (I'm real old school, literally). We've got this little program here at work called AutoCad.



Me too,
for small stuff sometimes it's still faster to draw by hand
However I have been teaching alot of invertor lately

I'm no engineer, but I would think heat play a role in this, too. The rear tire, with more weight on it plus friction from accelerating on the pavement, would tend to flatten out a bit more than the front. As we've seen from the diagram above (nice work BTW!) there's a much larger contact patch with the rear tire to begin with. Add weight and friction to the larger contact patch and the rear tire probably more easily loses it's cold/rounded shape than does the front tire.


Also, I'm wondering in the front and rear ends of the bike could be leaning at two different angles, with the front end a bit more upright than the rear. When you're countersteering, you're turning the front wheel in the opposite direction of the bike's travel. Think of a left-hander: If you're steering slightly right but the bike is moving to your left, the front tire's contact patch is actually more toward the center of the tread while the rear tire's contact patch is on the left side of the tire.

To illustrate, sit on your bike while stationary. Turn the bars to full lock one way or the other. The bike will lean over (probably in the opposite direction) and the rear tire will lean with it, while the front tire is mostly still on its centertread because the fork it's mounted on is pivoting, not leaning.

Thinking about that pivot idea, I'm guessing that the greater the fork rake and trail (and the longer the wheelbase), the less the front tire falls over while countersteering. If that's true, I'd also think that shorter wheelbase/quicker steering bikes like supermotards would show more front tire wear away from the centertread.

Does that make sense? :huh:

[image: View Post]TimC, on Jun 8 2009, 12:53 PM, said:

I'd also think that shorter wheelbase/quicker steering bikes like supermotards would show more front tire wear away from the centertread.

Does that make sense? :huh:

My Duke would lend support to that portion of your theory.

Speaking of tires, lean angles, etc- I am hearing more and more about Goldwing riders running small automotive tires on the rear of their bikes as opposed to motorcycle tires. Yikes!

Supposedly in search of the elusive 50,000 mile motorcycle tire.

[image: View Post]Pete McCrary, on Jun 8 2009, 12:18 PM, said:

Speaking of tires, lean angles, etc- I am hearing more and more about Goldwing riders running small automotive tires on the rear of their bikes as opposed to motorcycle tires. Yikes!

Supposedly in search of the elusive 50,000 mile motorcycle tire.

That one's been beaten to death; do a google search for "darkside riders." Some guys swear by it, others tell them they're crazy. Anyways, I'm enjoying this thread as is, let's not drag the darkside debate into it...

[image: View Post]Pete McCrary, on Jun 8 2009, 10:18 AM, said:

Speaking of tires, lean angles, etc- I am hearing more and more about Goldwing riders running small automotive tires on the rear of their bikes as opposed to motorcycle tires. Yikes!

Supposedly in search of the elusive 50,000 mile motorcycle tire.

An automotive tire is a mere rim protector on a motorcycle... before you can see 50K miles it will send
your ass in the giggle bushes...

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Jun 8 2009, 10:12 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Bent, on Jun 8 2009, 10:48 AM, said:

Ya gotta point there, Dale. I heard Bea's is near Chapter 11 because we haven't been there in too long. We need to go help them out!

Seb, Hwy. 28 is a blast but you're supposed to have a little bit of strip on the front. Those rock banks are hard! Those Hogs on the way to The Gap must be pushing you up 28 at a high rate of speed..... :laugh:

Hey, don't talk about Bailey like that, he might ban ya!! :ph34r: :biggrin:


I just assumed I was banned.... :laugh: