After 2000+ miles on the VFR I have decided there are two issues with the bike that I need to either get used to or get rid of to enjoy it for years to come. One of those is the way the brakes fell. When stopping I feel the brakes pulsing and it has a terrible feel to it compared to some of the other bikes I have owned over the years. It feels almost like a warped rotoe, but I find it hard to believe that my bike came factory with a warped rotor. I'll check it later with a dial indicator and see, but I thought I would ask on here and see if this is just part of having a bike with linked brakes.
While I'm at it, what is the easiest (cheapest) way to de-link the brakes and have a good braking bike for someone who knows how to ride.
Does it do it with the rear brake only. Mine does it occasionaly but only form the rear brake operating the one front piston. Mine did it for 2 weeks and went away.
It's a phenomonon that no one is sure about. Lots of 6th gen owners have complaiined of the same problem.
George, the brakes should not surge at all. This as you point out sounds like a warped rotor. It is entirely possible it came that way out of the crate. Take it to the dealer and complain about it, making sure to get a written repair/service order to build a paper trail of this warranty issue for use later if necessary. If they tell you "they all do that" show them this post - they do not. My 2007 VFR (non ABS) just turned 3000 miles yesterday and there is absolutely no surging, and an ABS bike would not surge either - you only get a different lever/pedal feel when the ABS activates. IMHO, leave the brakes linked. When operating correctly - which on my VFR is since new, they are easy to modulate and very controllable. Of course I am not a "speed racer" kind of rider but I have had to use them in other than nice easy stops and they performed excellently. I have ridden non-linked brake bikes for the last 40+ years and this system is far better except that it tends to make me a bit lazy. I also know how to ride, though I no longer am a knee dragger. Keep us in the info loop.
[image: View Post]Rice, on Jul 26 2009, 08:58 AM, said:
What ^^he^^ said.
There should not be any surging.
My brakes have been nothing but smooths.
:+1:
There are some de-linking threads. Not sure just where. It is an undertaking. To be honest, (and to each there own), ...The link system is more of a mental barrier. I questioned it too. After some miles, I found the ratio works really well, especially on quick stops.
It really sounds like a warped rotor. Honda is very good at quality control, but some things slip through every now and then. It most certainly is not something you should get used to, and something that should be covered by the warranty. It's also possible you have air in your lines.
The main advantage to delinking the brakes is that you save a few pounds. The system really does work well. If you accidentally apply too much rear, you aren't going to lock it as easily. If you apply only front, the added rear braking helps the bike settle in instead of diving (only a problem if you want to do stoppies) and if you apply them both, the linked system helps keep them at just the right ratio.
The only problem with this, of course, is that one could get lazy, and then not have proper technique when going to another bike, but I just make sure to brake properly anyway.
I'm not sure how many pounds you save by delinking, but it's not all that much. The other potential advantage is that it's easier to bleed them.
[image: View Post]Ryanme17, on Jul 26 2009, 12:15 PM, said:
The main advantage to delinking the brakes is that you save a few pounds. The system really does work well. If you accidentally apply too much rear, you aren't going to lock it as easily. If you apply only front, the added rear braking helps the bike settle in instead of diving (only a problem if you want to do stoppies) and if you apply them both, the linked system helps keep them at just the right ratio.
The only problem with this, of course, is that one could get lazy, and then not have proper technique when going to another bike, but I just make sure to brake properly anyway.
Present company excluded, It's like learning to drive, on a stick, compared to an automatic. Gott'a know how it works. Use the back brake. Defiantly a habbit that one wants to keep. It is easy to get lazy.
I'm not sure how many pounds you save by delinking, but it's not all that much.
Unless you're making it a sleeper.
1) Poop
2) Go ride
3) LOL.
Plenty of bike. http://www.vfrdiscus...p...c=44810&hl=
Come to think of it,.......better riders, on less powered bikes, have WHOOPED me. LOL. (But, I'm no racer).
I had that problem with my rear brake when I got my VFR. I found that wiping the rotor off with either brake cleaner or just window cleaner, get's rid of the problem. I'm guessing it's more prevalent because the chain and brake are on the same side of the wheel. Also I've had less recurrence since I started putting cardboard up when spraying the chain.
[image: View Post]Monk, on Jul 26 2009, 01:20 PM, said:
I had that problem with my rear brake when I got my VFR. I found that wiping the rotor off with either brake cleaner or just window cleaner, get's rid of the problem. I'm guessing it's more prevalent because the chain and brake are on the same side of the wheel. Also I've had less recurrence since I started putting cardboard up when spraying the chain.
True.
I think mine is a warped lt. frt rotor. It doesn do it wht the frt. lever but when the one piston id spplied.Iit seems like i csn do 10 hard stops and it goes away. I know a bunch of riders have experienced the same thing.
She had been doing it regularly but I did 500 miles yesterday with ni vibration.
I am a racer ans I thought the linked brakes would suck. I know how to ride, I dont need the bike doing it for me. However the linked system works so well you wouldnt even know it's there except for the bad traits that dont exist.
normally a warped rotor, the lever play will change , cause the out of round part of the rotor will seperate the pads more, so when you push on the pedal, it has a huge gap to fill before the pads engage, plus if warped its gonna vibrate .
what color is the fluid in the resovior under your seat?
My fluid was completely black at 2,000 mile, cause my foot was riding on the lever unknowingly , so lever adjustment came into play, first rear pad set 7,000 mile LOL
but delinking , you'll just have weaker brakes, the front brake operates all the front pistons and one piston in the rear, its really quite good if it working right
Measure the rotor run-out with a dial indicator. If they are in spec, clean them with soapy water and a Scotch-Brite pad, then rinse well. (Per Galfer)
I'll measure the rotor run-out and take it to the dealer if necessary. I guess my biggest brain fart was not specifying that it happens ONLY with front brake and that I feel it in the bars mostly. I may or may-not delink the brakes, time will tell. I did not mind the linked brakes on my ST1300 except when out practicing maximum braking skills prior to teaching ERC classes (MSF instructor here as well) I found that when I was pushing the limit I oculd get a rear tire skid and NEVER touch the rear brake lever. I woudl have so much front brake that the rear tire was barely making contact with the ground and the linked brakes would skid the rear the last few feet. It never caused any real issues other than slight confidence issues when braking hard in the rain where I was always concerned it would cause trouble (never did though)
I like having full control of everything, maybe it's cause I'm a cop, or maybe that's why I became a cop, but I will honestly admit to being a control freak and the linked brakes creates a mental issue with me. I've ridden over 100,000 miles and the only crash I've ever had was the first day of riding with about 20 miles of experience and I locked my rear brake and lowsided going into a sharp turn. I've learned a lot since then and while I have had bikes with linked brakes, such as my ST1300 and older Goldwing, I have laways preferred the simplicity of just knowing what I am doing and having full control of it.
I'll check this out and get back to you guys on what I find and then later what the delaer says (if I trust them to let them see my bike again)
The st1300 I believe uses a heavier amount of linking, simliar to the 1 gen linking of previous vfrs The second gen of linking on vfr has less effect for more sport type riding.
You mention the front brake can lock the rear , if you brake real hard on the front and the rear wheel comes off the ground , or doing in a wet condition. The rear can skid with the linking as you mention.
Thats where the abs systems come into play if you have them, it eliminates that potential.
One time I had to shut it down real hard on the 06 abs , front brake only use on dry ground, when the rear wheel started to come off the ground the rear abs kick in.
But I can see without the abs , where it could skid under real hard braking.
BUt the vibration isnt normal, if you feel it in the bars, why would you think is coming from the rear caliper?
Maybe you have a front tire out of round or balance
I never once said it was coming from the rear rotor, that was the assumption of folks on here since I forgot to specify that I knew it was in the front rotor somehow. I highly doubt that the front tire is out of round or blance as it is smooth as glass at a GPS indicated 148mph. It pretty much has to be the front rotors, I just gotta measure and see and then try dealing with my local dealership :mad:
ABS is nice I guess, has it place for sure, but mine does not have it and I'm certainly not going to trade bikes and add ABS just for the sake of keeping my front brake from sliding my rear tire (hasn't happened on this bike anyway, it was my ST1300)
I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this on a new bike and if so what their findings were.
Thanks, I figured it was something wrong, just needed confirmation and hoping to find that someone else had experienced it and the answer was........ i will post my results tomorrow when I measure run-out on the rotors.
Runout measurement will prolly confirm a warped rotors warranty issue. I went through the very same thing with Yamaha several years ago, and they replaced 'em. I'd just let the dealer measure the runout and present the results to Honda. They should be obliging on a new bike. The LBS should have nothing to do with it.
About 4 years ago I had a pulsing problem with my front brakes, but only when I hit the rear pedal. If I used the pedal and he hand brake, it never happened. Finally I traced it to a faulty front delay valve, which I purchased from SA1713.
Still works like a charm.
[image: View Post]gstanfield, on Jul 27 2009, 03:35 AM, said:
I'll measure the rotor run-out and take it to the dealer if necessary. I guess my biggest brain fart was not specifying that it happens ONLY with front brake and that I feel it in the bars mostly. I may or may-not delink the brakes, time will tell. I did not mind the linked brakes on my ST1300 except when out practicing maximum braking skills prior to teaching ERC classes (MSF instructor here as well) I found that when I was pushing the limit I oculd get a rear tire skid and NEVER touch the rear brake lever. I woudl have so much front brake that the rear tire was barely making contact with the ground and the linked brakes would skid the rear the last few feet. It never caused any real issues other than slight confidence issues when braking hard in the rain where I was always concerned it would cause trouble (never did though)
I like having full control of everything, maybe it's cause I'm a cop, or maybe that's why I became a cop, but I will honestly admit to being a control freak and the linked brakes creates a mental issue with me. I've ridden over 100,000 miles and the only crash I've ever had was the first day of riding with about 20 miles of experience and I locked my rear brake and lowsided going into a sharp turn. I've learned a lot since then and while I have had bikes with linked brakes, such as my ST1300 and older Goldwing, I have laways preferred the simplicity of just knowing what I am doing and having full control of it.
I'll check this out and get back to you guys on what I find and then later what the delaer says (if I trust them to let them see my bike again)
George
AS Doug mentioned, you'll not be bothered by the VFR's linked brakes.
I constantly practice panic stops from 100 mph and have never locked the rear, control is excellent and I can howel the front tire at will.
I've even lifted the rear off the ground a few times. I normally Never use the rear brake except in those high speed panic stops, I also run EBC HH pads only on the front and run stock pads on the rear.
Also the 6th gen VFR increased front bias in the Linked system to boot. :cool:
On your problem, sounds like a bent rotor to me also and it takes Very little to bend one. The set-up tech could have bent it with the slightest mishap so it could have been bent from day one for you. Factory spec is a huge .008" and I've seen much worse. :blink:
I usually get some brake vibration on hot days when applying the front brakes. It does come from the rear brake from the linked brakes activating the one caliper. I spent a better part of 2 weeks tracking it down and then just shrugged it off as annoying but not dangerous. If I apply the rear brake as well the vibrations go away. I am not saying this is your problem but just letting you know so you can try the back brake and see if your issue goes away as a way of isolating the problem.
Good luck and do post up what you find. :)
End of thread · 20 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 10 Apr 2010