If not a 7th Gen, why not a CBR1000 then?

Ok folks,
I'm asking seriously if most of you will do the switch over to a CBR1000.

Considering how much people have been complaining about the weight of the new 7th gen, and considering that MOST of you/us wanted a liter bike, with no bells and whistles such as the new tranny, why not then just move on and get a lighter, more responsive, liter bike, still made by Honda that can still take you touring?

I know, I know, it wouldn't be a V-4, but is this the only reason?

I don't know much about bikes, never rode a CBR, so don't bite my head off!!

C

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but if the CBR1000RR was a V4, I'd have one in my garage right now. Fast, light & not too uncomfy. I'd find a way to put my VTEC hard bags on it.

Yeah, I'm just wondering if most people will find a better-suited bike in the CBR considering that lots of them do not like the new VFR.

I have done exactly that, with no regrets.
Pluses:
Great performance
Good deal on an '08 in '09 ($1000 more than a new '01 VFR in '04!)
Lots of mods available
With tank & tail bag, I can still go a week.

Minuses:
Not as comfy (but fixable)
Shorter range and lower MPG
Higher Insurance (more than double)
Plastic fuel tank cover means strapped tank bag
Hideous taillights

[image: View Post]PolarBear, on 06 December 2009 - 12:55 PM, said:

Ok folks,
I'm asking seriously if most of you will do the switch over to a CBR1000.

Considering how much people have been complaining about the weight of the new 7th gen, and considering that MOST of you/us wanted a liter bike, with no bells and whistles such as the new tranny, why not then just move on and get a lighter, more responsive, liter bike, still made by Honda that can still take you touring?

I know, I know, it wouldn't be a V-4, but is this the only reason?

I don't know much about bikes, never rode a CBR, so don't bite my head off!!

C


Ergos + a 35" inseam. Yeah, you could modify it somewhat with a MX style handlebar or Helibars, and drop the pegs an inch or two, but it's still a tight fit for a tall person. Pick up a leftover '08 on the cheap, though, and you'd likely have spare change for the mods.

The typcial person on this forum can afford a CBR1000. The reason they haven't bought one is because they don't want one. It's not anywhere near as comfortable or versatile as a VFR. Liter bikes don't last anywhere near as long, either. How many liter bikes have you seen with 100k miles? I've never seen one. Full coverage insurance on liter bikes is also much more expensive.

................but, yes, they look cool, handle great, and are very fast!

[image: View Post]EmeraldVFR, on 06 December 2009 - 01:39 PM, said:

The typcial person on this forum can afford a CBR1000. The reason they haven't bought one is because they don't want one. It's not anywhere near as comfortable or versatile as a VFR. Liter bikes don't last anywhere near as long, either. How many liter bikes have you seen with 100k miles? I've never seen one. Full coverage insurance on liter bikes is also much more expensive.

................but, yes, they look cool, handle great, and are very fast!


Hey Emerald,

This is interesting to me. Why wouldn't they last as long? Not as good technology? People drive them too hard? Not broken in properly?

I can understand the comfy factor though. And the insurance are that much more? Ouch.

C

[image: View Post]EmeraldVFR, on 06 December 2009 - 01:39 PM, said:

The typcial person on this forum can afford a CBR1000. The reason they haven't bought one is because they don't want one. It's not anywhere near as comfortable or versatile as a VFR. Liter bikes don't last anywhere near as long, either. How many liter bikes have you seen with 100k miles? I've never seen one. Full coverage insurance on liter bikes is also much more expensive.

................but, yes, they look cool, handle great, and are very fast!

I know this is a little off but are you sure you havn't accidentally maybe ventured into Nevada it seem like a shame not to just color that one in too. I'm jealous but I'll catch up.

It's a very good question. The thought has certainly crossed my mind. I kind of figure I'll cross that bridge when my 02 takes a dump, which hopefully won't be anytime soon but it does have over 55k on it.

As it stands now, I'd probably get a newer 6th gen if the price is right or a Triumph Sprint ST 1050. A CBR1000RR with helibars is definately on my mind though.....

I love talking about bikes :biggrin:

[image: View Post]PolarBear, on 06 December 2009 - 12:55 PM, said:

Ok folks,
I'm asking seriously if most of you will do the switch over to a CBR1000.

Considering how much people have been complaining about the weight of the new 7th gen, and considering that MOST of you/us wanted a liter bike, with no bells and whistles such as the new tranny, why not then just move on and get a lighter, more responsive, liter bike, still made by Honda that can still take you touring?

I know, I know, it wouldn't be a V-4, but is this the only reason?

I don't know much about bikes, never rode a CBR, so don't bite my head off!!

C


Frankly, that is exactly what I did about 2 years ago, but was still able to keep my VFR in the process.

I would say it comes down to the character of the bikes:

The VFR is such a well rounded motorcycle that does everything pretty well. The CBR is definitely the more hard edged, performance focused bike of the two, but is a surprisingly well rounded bike also.

I really love the V4 engine of the VFR. It's narrow, compact nature inherently aids handling, and the power delivery is a great balance of near V2 grunt down low and near I4 pull up top. Plus, as we all know they sound pretty awesome too!

While the I4 engine doesn't have a ton of character down low IMO, there is nothing that freaking shrieks like an I4 when you wind it up, it is truly a rush.

In terms of comfort and fuel range, the VFR wins that one, but my CBR is not uncomfortable and I have never run it out of gas either. ;p

In terms of power, the CBR (obviously) wins by a good margin, but I will say - riding on the street or track - I still have to give it the beans to keep up with or pass my buddies when they are riding their VFR's hard. It's just that I can go faster with less effort.

I kind of chuckle about weight because both bikes handle really well, and I never think about weight when I am riding, I'm just out there having a ball.

Having said all that, if I could only have my lighter, faster CBR, or my heavier, "slower" VFR, I would choose the VFR. It has plenty of performance, and on the street, the weight is a non-issue for me.

And one more thing... This CBR was considered overweight and under-powered in it's class- ironically just like the VFR - but you would never think that if you ever actually rode it.


[image: Posted Image]

[image: View Post]PolarBear, on 06 December 2009 - 01:44 PM, said:

[image: View Post]EmeraldVFR, on 06 December 2009 - 01:39 PM, said:

The typcial person on this forum can afford a CBR1000. The reason they haven't bought one is because they don't want one. It's not anywhere near as comfortable or versatile as a VFR. Liter bikes don't last anywhere near as long, either. How many liter bikes have you seen with 100k miles? I've never seen one. Full coverage insurance on liter bikes is also much more expensive.

................but, yes, they look cool, handle great, and are very fast!


Hey Emerald,

This is interesting to me. Why wouldn't they last as long? Not as good technology? People drive them too hard? Not broken in properly?

I can understand the comfy factor though. And the insurance are that much more? Ouch.

C


The greater an engine's power:displacement ratio, the shorter the engine's lifespan, that's why. This is true under normal riding conditions but even more so when you take into account that engines with very high power:displacement ratios (like what you see in liter bikes) are far more likely to be ridden by someone that will use that power. That certainly doesn't help.

As for insurance rates, most insurance companies in the U.S. charge far more to insure a liter bike than they do a VFR. Paying three times as much is not unheard of.

[image: View Post]OliverTwisted, on 06 December 2009 - 01:52 PM, said:

[image: View Post]EmeraldVFR, on 06 December 2009 - 01:39 PM, said:

The typcial person on this forum can afford a CBR1000. The reason they haven't bought one is because they don't want one. It's not anywhere near as comfortable or versatile as a VFR. Liter bikes don't last anywhere near as long, either. How many liter bikes have you seen with 100k miles? I've never seen one. Full coverage insurance on liter bikes is also much more expensive.

................but, yes, they look cool, handle great, and are very fast!

I know this is a little off but are you sure you havn't accidentally maybe ventured into Nevada it seem like a shame not to just color that one in too. I'm jealous but I'll catch up.


I've never been to Nevada (I once got within 100 miles, though.) During the six months I lived in Seattle, I could have gone to Alaska. The reason I never went is because the locals were so much fun to ride with that I preferred spending my time with them than doing a solo trip to Alaska.

[image: View Post]PolarBear, on 06 December 2009 - 12:55 PM, said:

Ok folks,
I'm asking seriously if most of you will do the switch over to a CBR1000.


Great question... :fing02:

For those that claim they prefer a lumpy V4, then a good question is why not a new R1, as it has similar power delivery... :unsure:

[image: View Post]Baketech, on 06 December 2009 - 05:27 PM, said:

[image: View Post]PolarBear, on 06 December 2009 - 12:55 PM, said:

Ok folks,
I'm asking seriously if most of you will do the switch over to a CBR1000.


Great question... :fing02:

For those that claim they prefer a lumpy V4, then a good question is why not a new R1, as it has similar power delivery... :unsure:


Too heavy!!! :goofy: Don't you read magazine shoot-outs??!! :biggrin:

I got an RC51! :fing02:
I4's got no soul...
My RC makes the right noises (V motor, gear driven cams) and is a fun track bike. Doesn't have the modern liter bike power, or weight, but still a great bike!
Plus, I'm thinking that the 1200 might be something I'm actually interested in. I was never one that expected, or wanted, the 7th gen VFR to be the latest greatest racer replica. Honda was never going to make a RCV for the street...

[image: View Post]JBAXX, on 06 December 2009 - 05:33 PM, said:

Too heavy!!! :goofy: Don't you read magazine shoot-outs??!! :biggrin:


Nice one...LOL!

The VFR has evolved from a sport/race bike to sport tourer. This 7th generation of VFR looks to be the greatest departure yet from previous VFRs as it moves to a luxury sport tourer. We all bought our VFRs because it best matched our values. As Honda has changed the mission and focus of this bike it is only natural that many of us will no longer share the new bikes values. As the mission of this bike changes so will the pool of potential buyers, ones that share in the new bikes values. Those of us that do not share those new values will have to adapt, stay put, or move on.

I suppose Honda has every right to change the mission of this bike and has no obligation to cater to our small niche of the market. I maybe disappointed although I can't imagine Honda is making a killing on us selling 1k-2k units annually in the USA. If not for European sales we likely wouldn't have a VFR at all. Just because we may not appreciate the direction this bike is going doesn't mean Honda will not make more $$$ selling the 7th generation to those willing to pay more than something is worth for more than they need. I suspect it maybe easier to make a buck selling a luxury bike over loaded with the latest gadgetry to the image conscious buyer than it is to sell the best engineered do everything bike that appeals to those who reason they want speed, comfort, versatility, value, in a compact exciting package.

Sure I have not ridden the new beast. It is fun to discuss and speculate based on the information available. I suspect the new bike will perform very well although I doubt the $4k+ worth of upgrades will do that much for the bikes enjoyment. For me the 7th gen has departed from my values in the imagery of it's design. It speaks to me of luxury, image, and status rather than the Spartan minimalism of a race bike (minus the ad graphics) found in earlier generations.

From what I speculate of the new VFR my values too would much more relate to having a CBR with VFR ergos and 6th gen. luggage to an over gageted luxury 7th gen. I have toured 300-400 mi/day with those on CBRs, Busas, and large Ninjas. I have seen them work well at it. Besides my '02 VFR I also tour on an I-4 '85 CB700SC Nighthawk S. For old technology it is in some ways more exciting a bike to ride than my refined VFR. With 77k miles I put on the VFR I maybe upgrading it. I could stay put with another low mileage 6 gen. or with may addiction to high revs a modified CBR600 would fit.

[image: View Post]Baketech, on 06 December 2009 - 05:44 PM, said:

[image: View Post]JBAXX, on 06 December 2009 - 05:33 PM, said:

Too heavy!!! :goofy: Don't you read magazine shoot-outs??!! :biggrin:


Nice one...LOL!


And it's too ugly. ;p

[image: View Post]Bad Boy, on 06 December 2009 - 06:09 PM, said:

The VFR has evolved from a sport/race bike to sport tourer. This 7th generation of VFR looks to be the greatest departure yet from previous VFRs as it moves to a luxury sport tourer. We all bought our VFRs because it best matched our values. As Honda has changed the mission and focus of this bike it is only natural that many of us will no longer share the new bikes values. As the mission of this bike changes so will the pool of potential buyers, ones that share in the new bikes values. Those of us that do not share those new values will have to adapt, stay put, or move on.

I suppose Honda has every right to change the mission of this bike and has no obligation to cater to our small niche of the market. I maybe disappointed although I can't imagine Honda is making a killing on us selling 1k-2k units annually in the USA. If not for European sales we likely wouldn't have a VFR at all. Just because we may not appreciate the direction this bike is going doesn't mean Honda will not make more $$$ selling the 7th generation to those willing to pay more than something is worth for more than they need. I suspect it maybe easier to make a buck selling a luxury bike over loaded with the latest gadgetry to the image conscious buyer than it is to sell the best engineered do everything bike that appeals to those who reason they want speed, comfort, versatility, value, in a compact exciting package.

Sure I have not ridden the new beast. It is fun to discuss and speculate based on the information available. I suspect the new bike will perform very well although I doubt the $4k+ worth of upgrades will do that much for the bikes enjoyment. For me the 7th gen has departed from my values in the imagery of it's design. It speaks to me of luxury, image, and status rather than the Spartan minimalism of a race bike (minus the ad graphics) found in earlier generations.

From what I speculate of the new VFR my values too would much more relate to having a CBR with VFR ergos and 6th gen. luggage to an over gageted luxury 7th gen. I have toured 300-400 mi/day with those on CBRs, Busas, and large Ninjas. I have seen them work well at it. Besides my '02 VFR I also tour on an I-4 '85 CB700SC Nighthawk S. For old technology it is in some ways more exciting a bike to ride than my refined VFR. With 77k miles I put on the VFR I maybe upgrading it. I could stay put with another low mileage 6 gen. or with may addiction to high revs a modified CBR600 would fit.



Very well said. You get a :+1: for that!

I love my VFR, but like you longed for something more responsive and with quicker reflexes for the one day rides in the twisties.

I picked up a 2007 CBR 600. It's an incredible bike. Weight is barely 400 pounds with a full tank of gas. Steering feel and flickability is amazing and it is faster in a straight line than the VFR as well. Fairly comfy ergos and I have a 34 inch inseam.

But.....if I had to give up one, I would keep the VFR.

Weight isn't a huge issue for me, it's the price vs. features you get. It's not competitive and I'm not going to buy the bike just because it's a Honda and/or a V4.

But, to the question...I don't fit on a CBR1000. Ergos. Modern supersports are built for girly men (no offense :goofy: ) I have no need for tank humping ergos on the street. Peaky power delivery.

New Multistrada for me. :laugh:

I've had an 05 cbr1000rr since it was new. I enjoy it but it's not an all day bike. If I'm going to be gone all day, the 99 vfr comes out of the shed. The cbr could be made into something of a tourer. The downsides are: less wind protection, footpegs way high, handlebars too low, headlights not that great, original seat was hard. I have changed the windscreen and redone the seat so it wasn't objectionable. I've spent some days on it but it hurts me to do that. The vfr is my traveling friend and will remain so until something better comes along.

I think you make a good point. If the new or older VFRs are not a sporty enough ride for you style, the CBRS definately are. Still get that Honda refinement and user friendly machine.

[image: View Post]UFO, on 06 December 2009 - 06:40 PM, said:

But, to the question...I don't fit on a CBR1000. Ergos. Modern supersports are built for girly men (no offense :goofy: ) I have no need for tank humping ergos on the street. Peaky power delivery.


:+1:

The 1000RR is relatively small for a liter bike. And as much as I like it, I just don't think I could commute comfortably on it.

The VFR has it's mission, and the CBR's have a different mission. :unsure:

This tape will self destruct if not properly stored. :ohmy:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 06 December 2009 - 01:29 PM, said:

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but if the CBR1000RR was a V4, I'd have one in my garage right now. Fast, light & not too uncomfy. I'd find a way to put my VTEC hard bags on it.



Definately.. My 08 1krr was very comfortable with heli-bars. Not VFR comfortble but good enough for many hours in the saddle. The 1krr is super light and super fast.. probably one of the fastest bikes I've ridden. I almost bought another one after I totaled mine but I had one big hang up. Major oil consumption.. There are still 08's out there for $6,995 which is a steal oil burner or not.

[image: View Post]VFR4Lee, on 06 December 2009 - 10:11 PM, said:

The VFR has it's mission, and the CBR's have a different mission. :unsure:

This tape will self destruct if not properly stored. :ohmy:


Posted Image Yeah, it may self-destruct, but I still enjoy reading the answers in the meantime. And I'm learning a lot from people who have ridden both and coment on the relevance of buying a CBR instead of a VFR.

Thanks all!! --this is not the end of the thread, I'm still interested in seeing your answers or points of view on this.

C

I'd like to see them make a ergonomically comfortable cbr1000 without installing buget suspension or killing the motor, I'd buy it.

Just raise the clipon height about 5 inches and drop pegs couple inches, WALA

[image: View Post]KPerham, on 06 December 2009 - 05:42 PM, said:

I4's got no soul...

That's debatable. What isn't is that I4's win races. This year's MotoGP and World Superbike championships both went to motorcycles with an I4. They're neither superior nor inferior to V4's. They're just different. Apples to Oranges.

It's a V4 thing. Something that the I4's don't have enough of and the V-Twins have too much of.

[image: View Post]rc36Honda, on 06 December 2009 - 11:37 PM, said:

It's a V4 thing. Something that the I4's don't have enough of and the V-Twins have too much of.



Posted Image FUnny thing is that despite my total ignorance of the I4s, I think you maybe right.
Still informative to me. Keep 'em coming.

C

[image: View Post]KPerham, on 07 December 2009 - 07:55 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Bad Boy, on 06 December 2009 - 06:09 PM, said:

I suspect it maybe easier to make a buck selling a luxury bike over loaded with the latest gadgetry to the image conscious buyer than it is to sell the best engineered do everything bike that appeals to those who reason they want speed, comfort, versatility, value, in a compact exciting package.


Racer reps are the epitome of marketing to the image conscious buyer! Why do you think there are so many Gixxers out there in the US? I think the VFR will continue to confound the mass riding public who will have no idea of the engineering gadgetry. If I got one, I certainly would not expect any non VFR people to have the first clue what the thing is.

Umm...

1) they are cheap relatively speaking

2) the 750 may be the best track bike on the market for us mere mortals who don't have stupid $$$ to buy an exotic (MV, Duc, KTM RC8, etc)

[image: View Post]AB-Oz, on 14 December 2009 - 11:57 PM, said:

I'm going to sound like a broken record if I chime in with "I like the RSV4-R" :) Thats the new bike I'm considering.

If only I could import it from the US and not have to pay the stupid import duty here, I'd save about $5k AUD...


I recently went to my local Aprillia dealer and in the service shop they had about 5 of the moto/road models laid over on their sides with the igition covers off. They said that they stay in the shop with constant electrical problems. Mechanic said, " Fun bikes but a pain in the ass to keep going" :unsure:

Here's what I like in bikes that made me buy a 6th gen:

Single sided swing-arm - A must for me
Ducted under seat Exhaust - an almost must for me
sport handling - a middle ground between RC51 and goldwing
comfortable ergos - I'm 5-10 and find this to be surprising difficult.
some sort of unique gimmic, okay trademark - VTEC, I still smile every time it kicks in
outperforms others in the same class - VFR wins comparo's vs F800, ST1050.

and lastly, a nicely equipped K1200R Sport was out of my price range.

[image: View Post]Hobie1dog, on 15 December 2009 - 01:38 PM, said:

I recently went to my local Aprillia dealer and in the service shop they had about 5 of the moto/road models laid over on their sides with the igition covers off. They said that they stay in the shop with constant electrical problems. Mechanic said, " Fun bikes but a pain in the ass to keep going" :unsure:

And THAT is the #1 reason that I can't bring myself to get interested in the RSV4... if it was engineered / built Honda :goofy: