Linked Brakes

Need some new Topic to argu.......uh, I mean discuss..... :biggrin: ...let's try Honda's Linked Brakes. I really like em' on the Larger, Heavier Gold Wings, VTX1800 Cruisers, and Honda Scooters. All of these Bikes represent rear weight biased Bikes. I tend to like this system on over 700 lbs Bikes also, but have never understood Honda's reasoning behind putting this system on the VFR. Never cared for it on the DN-01 either. Great System (IMO) on super heavy bikes, that are used a lot for 2-up, loaded Touring, that place the Rider, Passenger, Gear, etc. all to the rear, but I prefer Sport Type Bikes with seperate Brake Systems, and very rarely use the rear...... :fing02: :beer:

I rarely use the rear pedal, because the brakes are linked...I think this dumbs me down as a rider. I however like the linked brakes, as 8 or so places to bleed means I get a lot more use out of my mightvac, speedbleeders and sailor vocabulary

Great. Thanks, Skuut. Can't wait to see how many pages this one generates. Why not just start an oil or tire thread? ;p


Seriously, however...Personally, I don't mind LBS on my VFR but I could do without it, esp. since I use both brakes 90% of the time anyway.

Also, I would bet this "discussion" will lack much of the techno/science stuff from the ABS thread, since I think LBS is a component more subjective than ABS.

And BTW, given a choice between them, I'd rather my bike had ABS, not LBS. ;)

[image: View Post]TimC, on 31 December 2009 - 12:31 PM, said:

Great. Thanks, Skuut. Can't wait to see how many pages this one generates. Why not just start an oil or tire thread? ;p


Seriously, however...Personally, I don't mind LBS on my VFR but I could do without it, esp. since I use both brakes 90% of the time anyway.

Also, I would bet this "discussion" will lack much of the techno/science stuff from the ABS thread, since I think LBS is a component more subjective than ABS.

And BTW, given a choice between them, I'd rather my bike had ABS, not LBS. ;)

.....OH NO Tim, You brought ABS into it......... :goofy:

One of my first posts on this site when I joined, was to ask about how to remove the LBS from the bike I had just bought and not taken delivery of. I was advised to try it out first, then decide on removing it.

It's still installed on my bike, I like it a lot. I have other bikes that have regular brakes, and I find the VFR brakes can be applied harder, in a more controlled manner. The LBS also helps reduce dive by simultaneously "squatting" the rear to some degree.

That's all beside the point though - you guys use your brakes? :wheel: :goofy:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 31 December 2009 - 12:37 PM, said:

One of my first posts on this site when I joined, was to ask about how to remove the LBS from the bike I had just bought and not taken delivery of. I was advised to try it out first, then decide on removing it.

It's still installed on my bike, I like it a lot. I have other bikes that have regular brakes, and I find the VFR brakes can be applied harder, in a more controlled manner. The LBS also helps reduce dive by simultaneously "squatting" the rear to some degree.

That's all beside the point though - you guys use your brakes? :wheel: :goofy:

I'll agree with the "squat the rear under hard braking", but still prefer the "Front only" under just riding conditions when runnin' a decent clip in twisties..........last question....."VERY RARELY"....... :goofy:

[image: View Post]TimC, on 31 December 2009 - 11:31 AM, said:

Great. Thanks, Skuut. Can't wait to see how many pages this one generates. Why not just start an oil or tire thread? ;p


Seriously, however...Personally, I don't mind LBS on my VFR but I could do without it, esp. since I use both brakes 90% of the time anyway.

Also, I would bet this "discussion" will lack much of the techno/science stuff from the ABS thread, since I think LBS is a component more subjective than ABS.

And BTW, given a choice between them, I'd rather my bike had ABS, not LBS. ;)

:+1: To all of it.

I was planning on posting in the maintenance area, but since we're here... :blush:

My '07 has the linked brakes, obviously. A while back I got her up on the centerstand and started playing around: when the brake pedal is pressed, brake force is sent to both the front wheel and rear wheel, as I understood it was supposed to be.

However, when the brake lever is pulled, brake force is sent to the front wheel, but it doesn't seem like any force is going to the rear wheel at all. With the bike in neutral I can still turn it fine when I'm holding the brake lever.

So... is this a known issue, a misunderstanding of the system on my part, or a reason to do my first warranty visit to the dealer?

I likes my LBS (and ABS). The more the merrier.
Anything that will help me stay safer is a welcome addition.
i like the fact that some pressure is applied to the rear when I use the front b/c I always forget to use the rear in a panic situation.

Extra pounds are a non issue for me and here is why:
A very simple cost/benefit analysis...
I weigh 190 plus the bike is about 500, so that's like 700 lb all together. ABS + LBS is like 20lb? OK Let's say 30lb for argument sake.

30lb is 4.3% of the total weight. That's not much of a cost considering the benefit (even if some may argue about the benefit).

[image: View Post]carlitos92, on 31 December 2009 - 12:44 PM, said:

My '07 has the linked brakes, obviously. A while back I got her up on the centerstand and started playing around: when the brake pedal is pressed, brake force is sent to both the front wheel and rear wheel, as I understood it was supposed to be.

However, when the brake lever is pulled, brake force is sent to the front wheel, but it doesn't seem like any force is going to the rear wheel at all. With the bike in neutral I can still turn it fine when I'm holding the brake lever.

So... is this a known issue, a misunderstanding of the system on my part, or a reason to do my first warranty visit to the dealer?

This is correct.
Pressure to the rear is applied by the cylinder located on the left front fork tube only when the bike is in motion.

[image: View Post]Rice, on 31 December 2009 - 11:51 AM, said:

[image: View Post]carlitos92, on 31 December 2009 - 12:44 PM, said:

My '07 has the linked brakes, obviously. A while back I got her up on the centerstand and started playing around: when the brake pedal is pressed, brake force is sent to both the front wheel and rear wheel, as I understood it was supposed to be.

However, when the brake lever is pulled, brake force is sent to the front wheel, but it doesn't seem like any force is going to the rear wheel at all. With the bike in neutral I can still turn it fine when I'm holding the brake lever.

So... is this a known issue, a misunderstanding of the system on my part, or a reason to do my first warranty visit to the dealer?

This is correct.
Pressure to the rear is applied by the cylinder located on the left front fork tube only when the bike is in motion.

Yup, there it is right on page 3-27 of the manual. Lift up the left front caliper to test LBS operation. :blush: Thanks, man.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled non-ABS-related topic... :ph34r:

Although it does take a bit away from some of the riding skills I had working on with the ol' bimmer, applying just enough pressure to the rear brake and the front, it does make my braking more efficient I think. Therefore, I like them. Plus, let's not forget the additional benefit of keeping the rust off the rear brake, since it is always used at least a bit... :blink:
But we can also look at it from a different angle: does it hurt to have LBS?? Well, my opinion is that it does not hurt a bit (except for the weight penalty, but let's not bring up this topic again, for the average rider like me, I don't even notice it) especially considering that the bike has abs, which means that it won't make me spin out of control. The only consequence is that it will help me brake faster in all circumstances!

I like it, I am keeping it.

C

PS Now let's see how many pages we get out of this topic.

PPS What kind of oil should you use for LBS?!? :biggrin:

ok, i will chime in early and not drag the tail end of this thread to 10 pages ;)

i bought my vfr(this is a vfr forum, after all...) to sport tour with, and accepted the linked brakes as it is. i have never heard anything BAD about it, and during initial test rides i felt is was mainly transparent.

with my duc and its s.s. braided lines and brembos, i get instantaneous brake response. as in now. and i love that. BUT, when i tour on that bike, i find the direct controls can be fatiguing after 7-8 hours in the saddle. especially if it is after multi-days. and very hard to maintain smooth inputs near the end of the day.

this is where the linked braking system really shines. sure the vfr brakes are soggy and spongy. but they are forgiving to use, and with the added weight of luggage and/or passengers, it is, for me, a welcome feature at the end of the day. and seriously, a vfr can haul its ass down to a stop pretty damn quick.

i do find, that it wears out the rear brake pads really quick tho... although it probably makes up for in longer lasting front pads... maybe? at least they make it so you can use the front pads on the rear.

the 5th gen is apparently more visible, but i have never ridden on of those. i would imagine if it was very intrusive my opinion might be different.

What Real Rider would own a bike with Linked brakes??? :unsure:














:goofy:

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on 31 December 2009 - 02:43 PM, said:

What Real Rider would own a bike with Linked brakes??? :unsure:














:goofy:

...ah, "kick the dog"....... :goofy:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 31 December 2009 - 01:42 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 31 December 2009 - 12:37 PM, said:

One of my first posts on this site when I joined, was to ask about how to remove the LBS from the bike I had just bought and not taken delivery of. I was advised to try it out first, then decide on removing it.

It's still installed on my bike, I like it a lot. I have other bikes that have regular brakes, and I find the VFR brakes can be applied harder, in a more controlled manner. The LBS also helps reduce dive by simultaneously "squatting" the rear to some degree.

That's all beside the point though - you guys use your brakes? :wheel: :goofy:

I'll agree with the "squat the rear under hard braking", but still prefer the "Front only" under just riding conditions when runnin' a decent clip in twisties..........last question....."VERY RARELY"....... :goofy:

At the Skuuter Pace, all you really need to do is put your feet down to stop anyway... right? :goofy:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 31 December 2009 - 08:48 PM, said:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 31 December 2009 - 01:42 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 31 December 2009 - 12:37 PM, said:

One of my first posts on this site when I joined, was to ask about how to remove the LBS from the bike I had just bought and not taken delivery of. I was advised to try it out first, then decide on removing it.

It's still installed on my bike, I like it a lot. I have other bikes that have regular brakes, and I find the VFR brakes can be applied harder, in a more controlled manner. The LBS also helps reduce dive by simultaneously "squatting" the rear to some degree.

That's all beside the point though - you guys use your brakes? :wheel: :goofy:

I'll agree with the "squat the rear under hard braking", but still prefer the "Front only" under just riding conditions when runnin' a decent clip in twisties..........last question....."VERY RARELY"....... :goofy:

At the Skuuter Pace, all you really need to do is put your feet down to stop anyway... right? :goofy:
Fred Flintstone suddenly comes to mind..."Yabadabado!" ;p

From what I've read and experienced, the LBS is better than I will ever be able to duplicate on my own with a conventional setup. Yet, I still have a beef with the system.

It's heavy. I know it isn't much when observed as a percentage of the whole bike, but when the bike weighs 500lbs, every pound counts. Still, I could live with that as it's the second gripe that has me looking for a solution.

I find the lever pull to be too heavy for relative braking power. This isn't a big deal when cruising through town or even a light tour through the canyons but I like more initial bite when the pace picks up.

The VFR is no race replica but it's perfectly capable of being hustled along at a faster pace than most race replica's get ridden. That being said, I think the brakes should have more feel and require less effort.

I hope to solve the lack of bite issue with EBC HH pads. If it adds some power, I'll leave the system alone because I do like the safety benefit for my daily commute.

For the record, I don't use the rear brake with a conventional setup.

Well, I refused to buy an ABS bike because...uhh...err...nevermind.

I didn't have a choice on the linked brakes and of course I was highly skeptical. Turns out I don't mind them at all. Sure, the brake bleeding is a bit more trouble and rear pads go fast but I like it. :fing02:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 31 December 2009 - 08:48 PM, said:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 31 December 2009 - 01:42 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 31 December 2009 - 12:37 PM, said:

One of my first posts on this site when I joined, was to ask about how to remove the LBS from the bike I had just bought and not taken delivery of. I was advised to try it out first, then decide on removing it.

It's still installed on my bike, I like it a lot. I have other bikes that have regular brakes, and I find the VFR brakes can be applied harder, in a more controlled manner. The LBS also helps reduce dive by simultaneously "squatting" the rear to some degree.

That's all beside the point though - you guys use your brakes? :wheel: :goofy:

I'll agree with the "squat the rear under hard braking", but still prefer the "Front only" under just riding conditions when runnin' a decent clip in twisties..........last question....."VERY RARELY"....... :goofy:

At the Skuuter Pace, all you really need to do is put your feet down to stop anyway... right? :goofy:

Ya' know, now that You mention it...Hmmmm, gota' go, all my Bikes may get a lot lighter.....Anyone need some very slightly used Brake Rotors, Calipers, Master Cylinders, etc. ...... :goofy:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 31 December 2009 - 11:42 AM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 31 December 2009 - 12:37 PM, said:

One of my first posts on this site when I joined, was to ask about how to remove the LBS from the bike I had just bought and not taken delivery of. I was advised to try it out first, then decide on removing it.

It's still installed on my bike, I like it a lot. I have other bikes that have regular brakes, and I find the VFR brakes can be applied harder, in a more controlled manner. The LBS also helps reduce dive by simultaneously "squatting" the rear to some degree.

That's all beside the point though - you guys use your brakes? http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/wheel.gif http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/goofy.gif

I'll agree with the "squat the rear under hard braking", but still prefer the "Front only" under just riding conditions when runnin' a decent clip in twisties..........last question....."VERY RARELY"....... http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/goofy.gif

My advice in your case, would be use the front only, it works so well you'd be hard pressed to even know there's a slight one piston accuation to the rear caliper on the 6th gens.

The only issue, I've seen is rear brake use and the way it effects the front in slow speed stuff.

But using the front brake only, your getting that tad of added benefit of rear stability, but you'd be hard pressed to even know its there.

So , id have to ask, what are you missing or cant do as a result?


BTW, keep in mind some models are heavier linked ,like older vfr's and large touring bikes

i do my hard riding on the track (and its questionable as to how "hard" that is :goofy: )

that being so, i love the LBS on the street. i dont particularly care for the hard dive on the front that the
undersprung vfr experiences. with the LBS, whether it is 2 up or not, i can easily :sleep: brake in a more
relaxed manner. i enjoy the riding on the street more.

the bottom line is that i like the LBS for what it is and find that while honda doesn't always do it perfect, their
perspective on what the majority of riders would want for each product seem to be pretty much right on. :fing02:

[image: View Post]russell62, on 31 December 2009 - 10:22 PM, said:

From what I've read and experienced, the LBS is better than I will ever be able to duplicate on my own with a conventional setup. Yet, I still have a beef with the system.

It's heavy. I know it isn't much when observed as a percentage of the whole bike, but when the bike weighs 500lbs, every pound counts. Still, I could live with that as it's the second gripe that has me looking for a solution.

I find the lever pull to be too heavy for relative braking power. This isn't a big deal when cruising through town or even a light tour through the canyons but I like more initial bite when the pace picks up.

The VFR is no race replica but it's perfectly capable of being hustled along at a faster pace than most race replica's get ridden. That being said, I think the brakes should have more feel and require less effort.

I hope to solve the lack of bite issue with EBC HH pads. If it adds some power, I'll leave the system alone because I do like the safety benefit for my daily commute.

For the record, I don't use the rear brake with a conventional setup.
You may need to bleed the system or deglaze your brake pads. My '99 is a hard stopper with only two fingers, with initial "bite" being very strong. I have no issues with LBS, even on loose gravel hilly roads.

[image: View Post]FJ12Ryder, on 01 January 2010 - 09:54 AM, said:

[image: View Post]russell62, on 31 December 2009 - 10:22 PM, said:

From what I've read and experienced, the LBS is better than I will ever be able to duplicate on my own with a conventional setup. Yet, I still have a beef with the system.

It's heavy. I know it isn't much when observed as a percentage of the whole bike, but when the bike weighs 500lbs, every pound counts. Still, I could live with that as it's the second gripe that has me looking for a solution.

I find the lever pull to be too heavy for relative braking power. This isn't a big deal when cruising through town or even a light tour through the canyons but I like more initial bite when the pace picks up.

The VFR is no race replica but it's perfectly capable of being hustled along at a faster pace than most race replica's get ridden. That being said, I think the brakes should have more feel and require less effort.

I hope to solve the lack of bite issue with EBC HH pads. If it adds some power, I'll leave the system alone because I do like the safety benefit for my daily commute.

For the record, I don't use the rear brake with a conventional setup.
You may need to bleed the system or deglaze your brake pads. My '99 is a hard stopper with only two fingers, with initial "bite" being very strong. I have no issues with LBS, even on loose gravel hilly roads.

I've thought about that. I did have the system bled when I puchased the bike a few months ago since I had to replace one of the front lines. I had it done by a reputable shop that I trust, for what it's worth.

I didn't think about the pads being glazed. I'm ordering EBC HH's in a couple days so we'll see if that solves the problem.

I'm really not against the LBS in principle. In fact, I really like the way it works. I just like more bite. If I can achieve that, I will be even more impressed with my VFR :biggrin:

[image: View Post]FJ12Ryder, on 01 January 2010 - 10:54 AM, said:

...

You may need to bleed the system or deglaze your brake pads. My '99 is a hard stopper with only two fingers, with initial "bite" being very strong. I have no issues with LBS, even on loose gravel hilly roads.

Ditto for my '01... even the loose gravel hilly road bit.

[Has anyone mentioned that the 7th generation (VFR1200) links the brakes only one way? Step on the pedal and a couple of the front left pads activate, but there is no link between the front lever and the rear brake - and no sub-master cyclinder arrangement like on Gens 5 & 6. I wonder if the fly-by-wire-2-3-4-cylinder control system has something to do with it? Trail braking may just mess it up.]

[image: View Post]russell62, on 31 December 2009 - 10:22 PM, said:

I've thought about that. I did have the system bled when I puchased the bike a few months ago since I had to replace one of the front lines. I had it done by a reputable shop that I trust, for what it's worth.

I didn't think about the pads being glazed. I'm ordering EBC HH's in a couple days so we'll see if that solves the problem.

I'm really not against the LBS in principle. In fact, I really like the way it works. I just like more bite. If I can achieve that, I will be even more impressed with my VFR :biggrin:
Is your lever a little spongy, or is it firm with no good braking action? Mine is really solid, to the point that I'll be very careful at first when I install my Galfer stainless lines this winter.

The idea for linked brakes came from studies that showed a great
number of riders over using the rear brake and under using the front
brakes...

Hurt report conclusion #28.

Motorcycle riders in these accidents showed significant collision
avoidance problems. Most riders would overbrake and skid the rear
wheel, and underbrake the front wheel greatly reducing collision
avoidance deceleration. The ability to countersteer and swerve was
essentially absent.

I've heard it works well and produces class-leading stops when measured in braking tests.

I love it when speculation is backed up by actual data :fing02:

Now I just want an ABS vs. non-ABS brake test over variable surfaces with randomly triggered obstacles that you actually have to avoid in order to stop without crashing into them so that the chance of actually getting hurt is real. Unlike the typically proposed controlled static environment braking skill improvement tests riding on an outrigger-equipped motorcycle designed to be uncrashable. Give me some reality or go home.

[image: View Post]FJ12Ryder, on 01 January 2010 - 01:12 PM, said:

[image: View Post]russell62, on 31 December 2009 - 10:22 PM, said:

I've thought about that. I did have the system bled when I puchased the bike a few months ago since I had to replace one of the front lines. I had it done by a reputable shop that I trust, for what it's worth.

I didn't think about the pads being glazed. I'm ordering EBC HH's in a couple days so we'll see if that solves the problem.

I'm really not against the LBS in principle. In fact, I really like the way it works. I just like more bite. If I can achieve that, I will be even more impressed with my VFR :biggrin:
Is your lever a little spongy, or is it firm with no good braking action? Mine is really solid, to the point that I'll be very careful at first when I install my Galfer stainless lines this winter.

The lever is not spongy in the least bit. It's very firm and requires a significant amount of pull to achieve necessary braking power at the wheel. It gets better as the system warms up but it's still very very firm.

It really does seem like a glazing issue so I'll put the quality pads on and clean the rotors. Maybe that'll do the trick.

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on 01 January 2010 - 11:54 AM, said:

. Most riders would overbrake and skid the rear
wheel, and underbrake the front wheel greatly reducing collision
avoidance deceleration. The ability to countersteer and swerve was
essentially absent.


hmmm. i wonder if abs would help in these sort of situations???

:ohmy:

I very much enjoy the linked brakes on my VFR.

[image: View Post]dirtbag, on 01 January 2010 - 07:09 PM, said:

hmmm. i wonder if abs would help in these sort of situations???

:ohmy:

Maybe if you install the ABS on the rear it may help those under braking the front situations...

Changing fluid in the LB system is daunting enough to argue the case for standard brakes instead. I do like the effect of the linked brakes and don't feel they dumb down braking skills in the least. You still have to measure your application and release to acheieve smooth and effective control. Most riders of standard control type brakes only use the front brake lever and never experience the added control of the chassis when both front and some rear brake are applied. Having experienced that on the VFR I would look to learn how to achieve it on other bikes with out linked brakes. Like I said before they are far from fool proof and if you missuse them you'll be on your ear in a heart beat. I do dislike all the extra plumming and bleed points, but they work very well.

I owned on of the first m/c with a linked brake system, a Moto Guzzi LeMans.

Wasn't a key deciding factor for me at the time (the looks and sound&feel were...).


http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/Scannen0053.jpg

Liked the system after a while of getting used to.

Only "problem" was that when it requirec MOT after three years, it failed the brake testing; the british testing procedures didnot take the pecularities into account. The MOT station recognised that their procedures and not the bike were at fault.. :goofy:

[image: View Post]VFR Capt.Bob, on 02 January 2010 - 02:12 AM, said:

Changing fluid in the LB system is daunting enough to argue the case for standard brakes instead. I do like the effect of the linked brakes and don't feel they dumb down braking skills in the least. You still have to measure your application and release to acheieve smooth and effective control. Most riders of standard control type brakes only use the front brake lever and never experience the added control of the chassis when both front and some rear brake are applied. Having experienced that on the VFR I would look to learn how to achieve it on other bikes with out linked brakes. Like I said before they are far from fool proof and if you missuse them you'll be on your ear in a heart beat. I do dislike all the extra plumming and bleed points, but they work very well.

NICE Post..... :fing02: ....until I'm comin' to a "complete", or "abrupt" stop, I just never feel the need for a rear brake.....I've been in a "full-bore-stoppie" with standard type brakes (CBR600RR vs Buick LeSabre comes to mind... :biggrin: ) before beginning to add rear braking...if the front doesn't stop You, the rear doesn't have a prayer, and I've just never seen the need to be "drag-braking" the rear thru corners (personal pace choices... :rolleyes: )...... :fing02: :beer:

Hi guys,

I want to purchase the Galfer FK003D425 . This one is for ABS version.

Do you know if it will fit the non-ABS model ?
What is the difference in terms of brakes lines between ABS and non-ABS version ?

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 02 January 2010 - 07:31 AM, said:

NICE Post..... :fing02: ....until I'm comin' to a "complete", or "abrupt" stop, I just never feel the need for a rear brake.....I've been in a "full-bore-stoppie" with standard type brakes (CBR600RR vs Buick LeSabre comes to mind... :biggrin: ) before beginning to add rear braking...if the front doesn't stop You, the rear doesn't have a prayer, and I've just never seen the need to be "drag-braking" the rear thru corners (personal pace choices... :rolleyes: )...... :fing02: :beer:

David, in emergency braking, it's best to use both the front and rear at the same time. You theory of "if the front don't stop you" doesn't make sense to me. Personally, I don't use the rear brake unless I'm maneuvering in a parking lot(try it, it's great!), or when coming to a stop at a stop sign. I do however practice e-stops and learned the hard way that it has payed off, in that I do instinctively hit the rear brake a split second after applying full front brake pressure. The linked brake system puts you a step ahead in such a situation, and it's been proven in tests.

Using the brakes properly is a life saving technique no matter your personal PACE preference, and is taught well by the MSF. :fing02:

I have to ammend my previous griping about the linked brake system on the 6th gen. After scrubbing the pads (EBC HH) and rotors, they are just what the doctor ordered. :fing02:

I now have good feel in the lever and plenty of power at the ground. I appreciate that I am getting some rear brake power even when I don't ask for it and can always get more when the situation call for it.

I won't own a bike without ABS.. Or Linked brakes if available.. Or traction control if available...

i think these article say all thats needed on the subject...

http://www.motorcycl...s_us/index.html


Or go pick up the new Sport Rider magazine with the Green BMW R1000SS on it and read the article... Pretty amazing ABS and traction control from BMW... Needless to say they plan to attempt to race it with ABS and gie the reasons why...

[image: View Post]GGray, on 18 January 2010 - 02:43 PM, said:

I won't own a bike without ABS.. Or Linked brakes if available.. Or traction control if available...

i think these article say all thats needed on the subject...

http://www.motorcycl...s_us/index.html


Or go pick up the new Sport Rider magazine with the Green BMW R1000SS on it and read the article... Pretty amazing ABS and traction control from BMW... Needless to say they plan to attempt to race it with ABS and gie the reasons why...

GGray, I'm with you on this... Nice link! When professional racers who can out-brake probably 99% of us on the road can't out-brake ABS, it's time to seriously look at ABS... I like the linked brakes too--they're not a problem during slow speed stuff and their help with maintaining a stable platform when braking at high speeds is nice...

I would guess that the vast majority of bikes in the years to come will come standard with both. I was amazed to see how many 2010 models of bikes have ABS as an option...

I was also werry sceptical to the linked brakes as I buoght my Fi last winter, turnes out I like them for the ride I do. Stopping feels stronger.
I do have thougt of adding a valve so the rear can be shut of if needed (track rideing), if I change to brained brake lines some day. But for now, its remain as stock

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 18 January 2010 - 07:02 AM, said:

[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 02 January 2010 - 07:31 AM, said:

NICE Post..... :fing02: ....until I'm comin' to a "complete", or "abrupt" stop, I just never feel the need for a rear brake.....I've been in a "full-bore-stoppie" with standard type brakes (CBR600RR vs Buick LeSabre comes to mind... :biggrin: ) before beginning to add rear braking...if the front doesn't stop You, the rear doesn't have a prayer, and I've just never seen the need to be "drag-braking" the rear thru corners (personal pace choices... :rolleyes: )...... :fing02: :beer:

David, in emergency braking, it's best to use both the front and rear at the same time. You theory of "if the front don't stop you" doesn't make sense to me. Personally, I don't use the rear brake unless I'm maneuvering in a parking lot(try it, it's great!), or when coming to a stop at a stop sign. I do however practice e-stops and learned the hard way that it has payed off, in that I do instinctively hit the rear brake a split second after applying full front brake pressure. The linked brake system puts you a step ahead in such a situation, and it's been proven in tests.

Using the brakes properly is a life saving technique no matter your personal PACE preference, and is taught well by the MSF. :fing02:

Yeah, I agree, Linked brakes are better in a "Panic Stop, me or them" situation, and I use both brakes durin' those times along with the "butt pucker extra seat grip" program.....I was just pointin' out that it will still mainly be the front brakes that keeps You from becoming a Buick door molding..... :fing02: ....I still prefer just front being applied during corner riding though, and still my personal preference is non-linked brakes on Sport Bikes..... :fing02: