ok here we go. do i hate vtec? yes. but now i really, really hate it.
riding down a wet rainy highway today, around 41�f lightly accelerating thru the vtec in 6th(i am not going to discuss prudent speeds on open highways with no traffic) and the back wheel spins up from the vtec kick.
really, it was a drama free incident, but having that happen just ain't cool. it doesn't take too much imagination to think up a scenario where there could of been some drama.
Cold and wet and you're railing and you want to blame VTEC? If you look at dyno graphs of rear wheel output on the 6th gen, VTEC isn't really that exciting, it's actually a slight lull in power then a few more HP come on.
41F and motorcycles aren't going to be gripping very well. Wet, same. Everything that ever happened to make me nervous on my bike in the rain was my own fault. Just saying.
[image: View Post]pres589, on 31 December 2009 - 03:23 PM, said:
Cold and wet and you're railing and you want to blame VTEC? If you look at dyno graphs of rear wheel output on the 6th gen, VTEC isn't really that exciting, it's actually a slight lull in power then a few more HP come on.
41F and motorcycles aren't going to be gripping very well. Wet, same. Everything that ever happened to make me nervous on my bike in the rain was my own fault. Just saying.
railing? who said anything about that? i was going in a perfectly straight line, with LIGHT acceleration.
do i spin the tire in the rain? actually, i do. do i like it when it does it without intention??? nope.
it has been mentioned on here is the past that the vtec engagement on my bike(and many others) can be very abrupt. especially during merge situations or light acceleration conditions. sure you can "ride around" it most of the time, but to me that means it is a flawed system.
again, i don't want this to turn into a "you shouldn't ride like that thread".
btw, a few horsepower added abruptly will break a tire loose in less that ideal conditions.
These things are kind of like a tractor, it's got the torque to pull away after an upshift pulled below 7k. I'm not super fond of the VTEC transition on my 6th but it sounds like yours is worse than average. Lots of mods to help with this, some for not a lot of money, like 02 eliminators (read 50 cent resistors in the O2 sockets), PAIR disconnect, etc etc.
I'm sorry dirtbag but you can't blame that on VTEC, on a cold wet highway at high speed almost anything could cause you to loose traction. Especially on our highways. :blink:
So you expect us to agree that all of our VTEC bikes now suck just because someone wants to ride ignoring the road conditions? I can guess why there may not be sympathy here.
Lessee... you're in Vancouver, so they've already put some crap down on the roads. Now you're out doing 98+mph and you think your biggest problem is the VTEC transition? Time to get a 'busa... :rolleyes:
I dunno, dirtbag... if the bike was new to you and the whole VTEC thing was a shocker, I might have some sympathy. But I've barely broken in my RWB, and even I know what 6600-ish rpm sounds like already... I guess I just "ride around" the transition. So, I'm gonna leave it at "I believe that you believe there's a problem." ;)
If anything, I wish the VTEC kick was even more abrupt. I mean, I'd like to hear the valves switch over, BRRROONNNKKKK, and have the front wheel get a few inches of air... :wheel:
[image: View Post]carlitos92, on 31 December 2009 - 10:17 PM, said:
If anything, I wish the VTEC kick was even more abrupt. I mean, I'd like to hear the valves switch over, BRRROONNNKKKK, and have the front wheel get a few inches of air... :wheel:
Sorry to hear the rear wheel spun on you (unintentionally). :(
Suggestion: Buy and install a Power Commander and oxygen sensor eliminators. My '04's VTEC transition was never bad, and got smoother the more miles I put on the bike, but my PCIII and O2 eliminators made transitions butter smooth. One of the best mods on my bike IMO.
well, i was in a bit of a pot stirrin' mood this afternoon... :wheel:
but i don't find running up slowly thru the gears up to 100mph in the wet all that astonishing, especially on a straight divided highway with NO traffic within a mile.
i will on occasion run thru the gears and slowly pass thru vtec transition and see how it reacts. i find the first transition on cool days much worse than at other times, and find if i am in a high gear(5th or 6th) it sometimes will be very harsh if i SLOWLY pass thru the transition.
i was basically doing that today, and if you think i was going too fast i apologize for letting you know how fast i was going, but having the tire spin up is crap in that situation. period.
i have run enough fast bikes in the wet to know what controllable fueling is. rolling the throttle on a zx14 and having the wheel spin up in a nice linear relationship with the throttle is nice. holding a steady but slow acceleration curve and having the engine kick and break the tire loose in not so nice.
like i said, there was no drama. i was expecting the kick, but not like that.
and sometimes it is completely invisible. i never really know what i am going to get.
[image: View Post]dutchinterceptor, on 31 December 2009 - 08:19 PM, said:
[image: View Post]carlitos92, on 31 December 2009 - 10:17 PM, said:
If anything, I wish the VTEC kick was even more abrupt. I mean, I'd like to hear the valves switch over, BRRROONNNKKKK, and have the front wheel get a few inches of air... :wheel:
:goofy:
:squid: :squid: :squid:
dirtbag you are not alone and you certainly wasn't doing anything wrong at all, many times when on sweeping A roads, in 5th gear travelling between 80-100mph, smoothness is very very important and when gradually coming up to the VTEC cut-in point I would feel a bump and at worse a wobble from the front - now I can imagine that effect being twice as bad in wet conditions.
Even at lower speeds it can make its presence known, the issue for me is the inconsistency - I didn't even notice the transition sometimes but every now and again it would REALLY hit hard and for a split second I would lose my rhythm and more importantly my concentration. To me, simply riding around this issue like many do just robs you of unnecessary brain power needed for focusing on other important things like road positioning, traffic, weather conditions etc.
That is why I have bought a 5th gen, yes she is not as pretty or as hi-tech but she simply works a lot better. I prefer a strong midrange rather than revving the nuts of it trying to keep the revs high
When I hear some people say 'I never have an issue or notice VTEC and I will go in and out of it all day'
That's fine and I will agree with you, expect I ride in all types of conditions and when the temp get damp or cold the bike can behave very differently when in 4th and above.
I'm not a VTEC hater or anything but I'm just drawing on 60,000+ miles of experience with this bike
[image: View Post]dirtbag, on 31 December 2009 - 05:19 PM, said:
ok here we go. do i hate vtec? yes. but now i really, really hate it.
riding down a wet rainy highway today, around 41�f lightly accelerating thru the vtec in 6th(i am not going to discuss prudent speeds on open highways with no traffic) and the back wheel spins up from the vtec kick.
really, it was a drama free incident, but having that happen just ain't cool. it doesn't take too much imagination to think up a scenario where there could of been some drama.
The first week I got the 06, it rained the whole week on my new bike(suks) but every morning on the way to work the back tire would be spining at 50 mph acceling through the rain. Eventually I fiqured out the bike requires much better tires to stop that.
Those were met z4's I ran about 3 of those rears(atleast they spun straight) till switched to a Avon st45, (that thing would not only spin but break out sideways) and it didnt have to be raining(just crap). But installing tires like these is bad news with VFR IMO.
There much more avalable traction to be had, if you need it
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 01 January 2010 - 09:34 AM, said:
I hope none of you guys ever has to ride a 2 stroke dirtbike in the woods, you'd probably wet yourselves. :rolleyes:
.......................nice. Maybe that's why I kinda' dig the 'ol V-TEC. :biggrin:
[image: View Post]poconovfr, on 01 January 2010 - 10:51 AM, said:
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 01 January 2010 - 09:34 AM, said:
I hope none of you guys ever has to ride a 2 stroke dirtbike in the woods, you'd probably wet yourselves. :rolleyes:
.......................nice. Maybe that's why I kinda' dig the 'ol V-TEC. :biggrin:
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 01 January 2010 - 03:34 PM, said:
I hope none of you guys ever has to ride a 2 stroke dirtbike in the woods, you'd probably wet yourselves. :rolleyes:
Only if it's raining!! :goofy: :goofy:
If a 2-stroke slewies in the forest, but no-one is there to see it... did it really slewie??
Actually I agree, the VTEC transition can be a little irksome sometimes... I've got 75000 km on my 2003 6th gen and I've had several issues with the VTEC... the worst thing was when it wanted to kick in and out repeatedly at high revs... some sort of sensor issue or something... nothing like being leaned into a sweeper at high speed and have the thing bucking in n out of VTEC... but it's never caused me to come off... maybe a newby might have come a cropper... lately with the cold weather when the bike's at the threshold temp (around 64-65ºC) the transition is a real donkey kick... I could see it upsetting things in the wet in mid-corner...
The system from 2006 on makes much more sense... I wonder if the transition on these models can also be as rough at times...
I've come to learn to live with it when it misbehaves and enjoy it 99% of the time... is it gimmickey?? Yeah I guess so, Honda was trying to be clever... but the VFR is the tech-flagship model and it does have a solution so...
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 01 January 2010 - 07:34 AM, said:
I hope none of you guys ever has to ride a 2 stroke dirtbike in the woods, you'd probably wet yourselves. :rolleyes:
Between you and BR I am LMFAO!!!!!
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 01 January 2010 - 09:54 AM, said:
[image: View Post]poconovfr, on 01 January 2010 - 11:29 AM, said:
[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on 01 January 2010 - 10:18 AM, said:
If a 2-stroke slewies in the forest, but no-one is there to see it... did it really slewie??
..................funny thing but when I ride something other than a v-tec I actually look for the hit.....kinda' sick huh? :biggrin:
I'm thinking about adding a turbo to one of my other VFR's and making it kick in at 7k. :goofy:
No, really, I'm serious! :biggrin:
Actually, it probably would not be all that hard to run a relay off the VTEC solenoid wiring and have it trigger a NOS bottle simultaneously... Hmmmm... :idea3: :wheel:
[image: View Post]carlitos92, on 01 January 2010 - 12:02 PM, said:
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 01 January 2010 - 09:54 AM, said:
[image: View Post]poconovfr, on 01 January 2010 - 11:29 AM, said:
[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on 01 January 2010 - 10:18 AM, said:
If a 2-stroke slewies in the forest, but no-one is there to see it... did it really slewie??
..................funny thing but when I ride something other than a v-tec I actually look for the hit.....kinda' sick huh? :biggrin:
I'm thinking about adding a turbo to one of my other VFR's and making it kick in at 7k. :goofy:
No, really, I'm serious! :biggrin:
Actually, it probably would not be all that hard to run a relay off the VTEC solenoid wiring and have it trigger a NOS bottle simultaneously... Hmmmm... :idea3: :wheel:
I've been advised to look into a Garret GT15, actually... :warranty:
I cant say I agree thatr it is the Vtech kick
Hmm. So is that you on your bike in your avatar pic, Sam, or did you pull a Rob and Fab switcheroo? :unsure:
First of all.. saying the v-tec has any type of kick that would in some way make you lose control is a joke.. It's a fat pig with low power, the v-tec is about the only thing that helps this bike rev up and get moving at speed. That being said, it certainly isn't a huge power boost. These bikes can barely run mid 11's in the 1/4 and top out under 160. That's not even on par with your average new 600.. As for torque, it's got a little more than your average 600 but not much. If you can't control a v-tec you might be better off riding a 500 or maybe even a 250. Either that or you need to take some sort of riding or safety course to learn throttle conrtol.
I cant say I agree thatr it is the Vtech kick
Hmm. So is that you on your bike in your avatar pic, Sam, or did you pull a Rob and Fab switcheroo? http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/goofy.gif (J/K, buddy!)
No thats really me, I couldnt figure out how to Lip-sync the exhaust note. Maybe a trumpet recording overlay will help.. LOL
To the OP.. I have ridden in the rain many times up here in the mtns and the only time I have slipped the rear was from a brand new tire with less than 10 miles entering a 10mph hairpin @ 30 and from Wet tarsnakes.. My guess is you most likely hit a patch of OIL or Diesel but I just cant see spinning up the rear in 6th gear in the rain while going in a strait line..
[image: View Post]Smokey74, on 02 January 2010 - 04:24 AM, said:
First of all.. saying the v-tec has any type of kick that would in some way make you lose control is a joke.. It's a fat pig with low power, the v-tec is about the only thing that helps this bike rev up and get moving at speed. That being said, it certainly isn't a huge power boost. These bikes can barely run mid 11's in the 1/4 and top out under 160. That's not even on par with your average new 600.. As for torque, it's got a little more than your average 600 but not much. If you can't control a v-tec you might be better off riding a 500 or maybe even a 250. Either that or you need to take some sort of riding or safety course to learn throttle conrtol.
Smokey you have missed the point completely, it's not about too much power at the transition, it's the roughness when it kicks in... it's awful.. like a misfire, plus the engine loses it's linear torque curve as in 2-valve mode it's at it's peak and power starts to fall away before kicking back in again. It only happens say once every 20 times or something, so if you can live with it fine! I did for 3 years but I'm pretty relieved that I don't have to put up with it anymore.
Pinning the throttle at 6500rpm on a 5th gen feels MUCH stronger than the 6th gens.
(disclaimer I still love the 6th gen bikes, I just wanted a smoother engine)
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on 02 January 2010 - 07:41 AM, said:
[image: View Post]Smokey74, on 02 January 2010 - 04:24 AM, said:
First of all.. saying the v-tec has any type of kick that would in some way make you lose control is a joke.. It's a fat pig with low power, the v-tec is about the only thing that helps this bike rev up and get moving at speed. That being said, it certainly isn't a huge power boost. These bikes can barely run mid 11's in the 1/4 and top out under 160. That's not even on par with your average new 600.. As for torque, it's got a little more than your average 600 but not much. If you can't control a v-tec you might be better off riding a 500 or maybe even a 250. Either that or you need to take some sort of riding or safety course to learn throttle conrtol.
Smokey you have missed the point completely, it's not about too much power at the transition, it's the roughness when it kicks in... it's awful.. like a misfire, plus the engine loses it's linear torque curve as in 2-valve mode it's at it's peak and power starts to fall away before kicking back in again. It only happens say once every 20 times or something, so if you can live with it fine! I did for 3 years but I'm pretty relieved that I don't have to put up with it anymore.
Pinning the throttle at 6500rpm on a 5th gen feels MUCH stronger than the 6th gens.
(disclaimer I still love the 6th gen bikes, I just wanted a smoother engine)
OK, I see what your saying. I guess I misunderstood.. I personally like the 5th gen better as well but the 6th gen has some good things going for it also, especially in the looks department. No doubt it will never be as popular as the last generation of the gear driven v4's but it's still a great bike overall. The v-tec seems to be a love or hate thing with most people. I got my 6th gen on a trade deal for a great price and so far I'm not disappointed at all. For me this sport touring thing is totally new, I've been riding repli-racer liter bikes for a number of years and the closest thing to a touring bike that I owned prior to the VFR was a Suzuki Bandit back in the mid 90's. I've been forced this direction by injuries and heath issues that prevent me from riding with low clip-ons. Basically I'm just trying to make the best of what's been delt to me. The VFR seemed to be the best choice for the type of riding I like (live for the curves) and v-tec or not it's a great all around bike. Until I log a few thousand miles, I won't know if it will keep me happy but I think it's one of those bikes that will be in my garage for a long time. never hurts to have a good all rounder in the stable. :fing02:
[image: View Post]Smokey74, on 02 January 2010 - 05:38 PM, said:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on 02 January 2010 - 07:41 AM, said:
[image: View Post]Smokey74, on 02 January 2010 - 04:24 AM, said:
First of all.. saying the v-tec has any type of kick that would in some way make you lose control is a joke.. It's a fat pig with low power, the v-tec is about the only thing that helps this bike rev up and get moving at speed. That being said, it certainly isn't a huge power boost. These bikes can barely run mid 11's in the 1/4 and top out under 160. That's not even on par with your average new 600.. As for torque, it's got a little more than your average 600 but not much. If you can't control a v-tec you might be better off riding a 500 or maybe even a 250. Either that or you need to take some sort of riding or safety course to learn throttle conrtol.
Smokey you have missed the point completely, it's not about too much power at the transition, it's the roughness when it kicks in... it's awful.. like a misfire, plus the engine loses it's linear torque curve as in 2-valve mode it's at it's peak and power starts to fall away before kicking back in again. It only happens say once every 20 times or something, so if you can live with it fine! I did for 3 years but I'm pretty relieved that I don't have to put up with it anymore.
Pinning the throttle at 6500rpm on a 5th gen feels MUCH stronger than the 6th gens.
(disclaimer I still love the 6th gen bikes, I just wanted a smoother engine)
OK, I see what your saying. I guess I misunderstood.. I personally like the 5th gen better as well but the 6th gen has some good things going for it also, especially in the looks department. No doubt it will never be as popular as the last generation of the gear driven v4's but it's still a great bike overall. The v-tec seems to be a love or hate thing with most people. I got my 6th gen on a trade deal for a great price and so far I'm not disappointed at all. For me this sport touring thing is totally new, I've been riding repli-racer liter bikes for a number of years and the closest thing to a touring bike that I owned prior to the VFR was a Suzuki Bandit back in the mid 90's. I've been forced this direction by injuries and heath issues that prevent me from riding with low clip-ons. Basically I'm just trying to make the best of what's been delt to me. The VFR seemed to be the best choice for the type of riding I like (live for the curves) and v-tec or not it's a great all around bike. Until I log a few thousand miles, I won't know if it will keep me happy but I think it's one of those bikes that will be in my garage for a long time. never hurts to have a good all rounder in the stable. :fing02:
Absolutely and the 6th gens are fine machines, I've owned a few of them and I think they're probably one of the best looking bikes out there... solid, reliable, quick and comfortable. Personally I don't know why every rider on the entire planet wouldn't want a VFR :biggrin:
Vtec on my 02 used to do exactly same when it was humid and cold. I actually had my rear brake traction on a few occasions during one of the t-macs, which kinda took away from what meager confidence I did have on the wet and twisty NC roads that day.
:warranty: I thought that we have already established that not all VFRs behave the same. Even if they are the same year in stock form.
For some, VTEC is seamless, for others it's a biatch.
[image: View Post]Rice, on 02 January 2010 - 02:32 PM, said:
:warranty: I thought that we have already established that not all VFRs behave the same. Even if they are the same year in stock form.
For some, VTEC is seamless, for others it's a biatch.
Sorry, that's something I wasn't aware of.. I'm new to VFR's. So some v-tecs run smooth and others don't? I can feel and hear mine kick in but it's pretty seamless.. Feels like a little power boost that revs a little quicker but nothing jerky. Only other v-tec I rode was an 06 and it felt the same to me, in fact my 02 shifts a little smoother. I guess I'll just get out of this thread. Sounds like there's a lot of negative around the vtec but for me it's a non-issue.
[image: View Post]Alien VFR, on 02 January 2010 - 01:34 PM, said:
Guns wouldn't be cool if they weren't dangerous.
Snakes wouldn't be cool if they weren't dangerous.
Aircraft wouldn't be cool if they weren't dangerous.
Motorcycles wouldn't be cool if they weren't dangerous.
Stop crying; keep riding. We'll all be dead someday, and you can't ride when you're dead.
Personally, I love VTEC.
hahaha. no i am not going to get in line with you. :goofy:
seriously, i work on heavy lift turbine helicopters, and if there is an uncommanded input into the controls, that machine is on the ground until it is fixed. torque spikes in helicopters breaks shit. important shit.
when is the vtec worse for me?
when you're hauling thru twisties, holding a gear and running through vtec trans. at partial throttle.
slow acceleration thru transition, like when coming onto an onramp.
holding steady or near steady throttle while cruising along a highway.
cold and/or damp air seems to worsen the situation.
i am not telling anyone how their bike runs. just commenting on mine :beer:
holding steady or near steady throttle while cruising along a highway.
cold and/or damp air seems to worsen the situation.
:+1: :+1:
and trust me, out of the 6-7 vtecs I've ridden and owned, they ALL do it, but what does change is the variables that constitute a rough transition and when it does, believe me you will know about it.
oh and another point, we aren't just talking about it hitting hard, it's when going through it slowly or creeping up to it when your eyes are on the road and if you happen to stay at a given speed and revs that is directly at 6800rpm it CAN bog down... it's not DANGEROUS at all, just damn annoying!
dirtbag, I'm curious what tires your running, what condition they're in, and what the road surface is like.
My '02 is very smooth, almost to the point of not noticing it, but initially it did take some getting used to (It smoothed out immensely at the valve check at 20k mi) Even on the Metz Z4 tires that I despised, I couldn't get the tire to spin up. Even on wore out tires, it won't spin up.
I can say that I've NEVER had the rear tire spin up. Not saying it can't happen, but it hasn't for me.
#1. The "VTEC kick" is actually a jetting issue. If you ever look at the A/F chart of a VTEC on a dyno it's got a real bad dip before the VTEC engagement.
#2. What are you doing riding below the VTEC engagement point? A VFR doesn't really starting running good until about 7500. Keep it between 7500 rpm and red line and life will be great.
What are you doing riding below the VTEC engagement point? A VFR doesn't really starting running good until about 7500. Keep it between 7500 rpm and red line and life will be great
:blink: That would give me a headache on a long journey are you serious?!
All VTEC needs and selector switch; auto, off, on, and manual-push button control. Imagine pushing the VTEC button at 9K. They could even add a Audible tone like 3 beeps to warn the other riders your about to enter ludicrous speed.
[image: View Post]StuntManDan, on 04 January 2010 - 11:45 PM, said:
All VTEC needs and selector switch; auto, off, on, and manual-push button control. Imagine pushing the VTEC button at 9K. They could even add a Audible tone like 3 beeps to warn the other riders your about to enter ludicrous speed.
Pushbutton = Wheelie button
What a wonderful idea, that way, You can have it in the off position all the time :goofy:
[image: View Post]Pete McCrary, on 04 January 2010 - 12:40 PM, said:
#1. The "VTEC kick" is actually a jetting issue. If you ever look at the A/F chart of a VTEC on a dyno it's got a real bad dip before the VTEC engagement.
#2. What are you doing riding below the VTEC engagement point? A VFR doesn't really starting running good until about 7500. Keep it between 7500 rpm and red line and life will be great.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
sometimes you can feel a slight dip and most times not , I'm willing it varies on the dyno too. The only time I feel a dip or anoying hit (when it happens) is normally in a low gear.
I disagree the bike has to be ridden between 7500 and redline all the time, to be usable, that would be annoying.
66,000 mile on my 06 , i ride it like any other bike . If i'm at 5,000 rpm and need a ballistic move, drop 2 gear and let er rip. Thats crazy keeping the bike about 7500 rpm all the time, just becuase of vtec, atleast my use of my 06.
when the bike was new , there was a few very hard hits, I imagine simliar to some of the dyno pics. drop/hit hard enough to hurt the hands.
[image: View Post]tx_vfr, on 04 January 2010 - 12:54 PM, said:
dirtbag, I'm curious what tires your running, what condition they're in, and what the road surface is like.
My '02 is very smooth, almost to the point of not noticing it, but initially it did take some getting used to (It smoothed out immensely at the valve check at 20k mi) Even on the Metz Z4 tires that I despised, I couldn't get the tire to spin up. Even on wore out tires, it won't spin up.
I can say that I've NEVER had the rear tire spin up. Not saying it can't happen, but it hasn't for me.
Anyway, I'm just curious.
For what it's worth, my 02 has 21,000 miles on it and it's very smooth. :fing02:
End of thread · 51 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 12 Apr 2010