Spoke with the Honda Dealership in Sumter SC about the new VFR. The manual transmission model will retail over $15k!!!!!!!!!!!The paddle shift model will push $17500.
If this is indeed true Honda has priced themselves out of the market on this bike. This is in Gold Wing territory.
This shop is know for discounting bikes. A new CBR1000 is less than $10k.
I think for the money I had rather go BMW or maybe a Kawasaki Concours. .
[image: View Post]Jlewis50, on 25 February 2010 - 06:53 AM, said:
Spoke with the Honda Dealership in Sumter SC about the new VFR. The manual transmission model will retail over $15k!!!!!!!!!!!The paddle shift model will push $17500.
If this is indeed true Honda has priced themselves out of the market on this bike. This is in Gold Wing territory.
This shop is know for discounting bikes. A new CBR1000 is less than $10k.
I think for the money I had rather go BMW or maybe a Kawasaki Concours. .
You are correct on Honda's new pricing, just plain stupid high. Granted, the bike may actually be worth that price given the R&D and tech that it has, but to compete in the segment (Sport/Tour) against bikes like the C14, Sprint ST, FJR, etc. it is way overpriced, with the only real exception being the BMW's.
The Honda dealer near me has 2 on order, with NO expected delivery date other than "they should show up sometime after March", and NO demo/test rides will be available, yet they let people take out $23K BMW 1300GT's for test rides - go figure?
IMO, BMW is exactly what Honda is aiming for. Size, performance, weight, driveline style, the whole package. This VFR is clearly not a derivitive of a race bike heritage as were the first generations. The only aspect of BMW that they missed that I can see is a comfortable passenger seat. There is no way any of our S/O's will want to sit on that for hours at a time.
Oddly enough, when the first photos of the new VFR hit out "Featured photo" on our home page here, my wife walked into the office and saw it on the monitor and asked "Why is there a BMW on the VFRD home page?".
IIRC, a new 2010 loaded BMW K1300S (w/ABS, grip warmers and tire pressure warning system) will set you back $17k-$18k retail, not including their ugly OEM bags. Personally, I think that was Honda's target bike, not the Connie 14 or FJR.
My '04 is still my favorite bike on the planet, esp. since I have modded it to my liking. Perhaps in a few years the new VFR will take its place. By then there should be some nice used ones for sale for a few grand less than the new retail price - basically the same way I got my low-miles '04 in '06. ;)
One thing the naysayers should keep in mind is Honda's fit and finish, said to be the best ever on the new VFR, and their top-notch reliability. Plus, sample labor rates at dealer shops for both brands, not to mention the # of Honda dealers out there vs. BMW dealers. Not to put BMW down, but there are other things besides purchase price to consider.
Guyus,
Just a thought but the new ST1300A model is the same money...at any rate to have the best of both worlds a good clean
used VFR 5th or 6th gen and a clean used ST1300 could be had for less than the new 1200.You get the mileage we all want, the motor notwithstanding you got two known platforms for probably less than the 1200. The St may not have the power the 1200 has ut seriously the St will hustle on down the highway without having to stop every 150 miles...you
don't like the weight drag out your VFR 800 and there you are....If you can stand the 15-16k go for it but me I'm happy to have two different bikes to chose from...Rod
[image: View Post]JHKolb, on 25 February 2010 - 08:32 AM, said:
You are correct on Honda's new pricing, just plain stupid high. Granted, the bike may actually be worth that price given the R&D and tech that it has
Still not sure what "tech" this bike has that everyone keeps referring to. A V4 isn't "tech" IMO, neither is a shaft drive. Both have been around for decades. It's a pretty bone stock bike as far as tech features go when compared to the competition.
[image: View Post]rodm850g, on 25 February 2010 - 12:09 PM, said:
Guyus,
Just a thought but the new ST1300A model is the same money...at any rate to have the best of both worlds a good clean
used VFR 5th or 6th gen and a clean used ST1300 could be had for less than the new 1200.You get the mileage we all want, the motor notwithstanding you got two known platforms for probably less than the 1200. The St may not have the power the 1200 has ut seriously the St will hustle on down the highway without having to stop every 150 miles...you
don't like the weight drag out your VFR 800 and there you are....If you can stand the 15-16k go for it but me I'm happy to have two different bikes to chose from...Rod
Instead of developing a new bike like the 7th gen (which I am not going to buy) ....all HONDA (or yammiesuzukikawas) has to do to get my cheap A$$ in a dealership actually looking is quite simple: Give the US and Canada markets ALL of your product lines as in MANY...MANY....WAY COOL bikes that exist RIGHT NOW and are sold in EUROPE and OTHER PLACES. SO HONDA, if you are LISTENING ..my opinion is IF YOU WANT TO SELL NEW BIKES IN USA, just give us what ALREADY EXISTS in the EURO-MARKET !!!! THERE is NO NEED to make SOMETHING NEW.....just LET US BUY WHAT ALREADY EXISTS !!!!! SIMPLE CONCEPT TOWARD INCREASED SALES......duh, even a CAVEMAN has a better way/idea to run your business here. SIMPLE SOLUTION.
[image: View Post]rodm850g, on 25 February 2010 - 12:09 PM, said:
Just a thought but the new ST1300A model is the same money...at any rate to have the best of both worlds
Not that I'm against MBS but then you have double the insurance, double the registrations, double the maintenance, double the mods, double the......... :warranty:
On another note......
I was selling bikes when the then brand new GL1500 six came out at a whopping $10,000 USD. I flatly told the GM that we'd never, ever sell a $10k motorcycle. :blush:
Anyone hoping to buy used is going to be in for a long wait. For one, motorcycle sales are down and IMO will not recover for a very long while and I am not sure motorcycles like the new VFR will be part of any recovery which I see as being gas price related. Two, the new VFR, even in the best of times would be a low volume seller. Left over would be best but I don�t think many dealers are going to be ordering more than one or two as needed.
Although there are several motorcycles that I would love to have the only one realistically capable of displacing my VFR would be the next generation Sprint ST given the right mix of changes from the current model or maybe, if a mini-Tiger comes to be. An 800cc Sprint ST would rule.
[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 25 February 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:
I'll pick up a lightly damaged VFR1200 at the Ins. Auction over the next year or two for a few grand and go from there! Posted Image
And how would you do that, when almost everyone (here at least) says they'll be buying the BMW/Kawasaki/Triumph instead?
Get used to higher prices. Americans have been paying ridiculously low prices for their bikes compared to the rest of the world for too long. It blows my mind to read that a US buyer can actually walk out of a dealership with a new Suzuki 1000 for US$11k and a Ducati 1198S for US$19k, when people in most other parts of the world (taxes notwithstanding) have to pay an average of US$21k and US$37k respectively for the very same bikes.
Ask a Norwegian or a Malaysian how much their bikes cost. And make sure you're sitting down when the answer comes. :)
[image: View Post]Throttlestop, on 25 February 2010 - 07:57 PM, said:
[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 25 February 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:
I'll pick up a lightly damaged VFR1200 at the Ins. Auction over the next year or two for a few grand and go from there! Posted Image
And how would you do that, when almost everyone (here at least) says they'll be buying the BMW/Kawasaki/Triumph instead?
I buy them wrecked from Insurance auctions. Bought my 2000 VFR in 2000 w/1200 miles on it for $800 and bought my 2002 VFR w/200 miles on it & Clean Title for $600. ;p
Put about $3k into each to build, put 15k miles on the 00 and have 70k miles on the 02 so far! :beer:
[
Not that I'm against MBS but then you have double the insurance, double the registrations, double the maintenance, double the mods, double the......... :warranty:
And to that sir I say......double the fun :biggrin:
OK folks, Honda has the new VFR on display at the Superbikes this weekend. Saw it in the flesh - it does indeed look as good as everyone says. And best (worst?) of all, I have the official Australian price: $24,990 inc. GST, which includes the centrestand (standard on all Aussie models).
I am unsure what wriggle room dealers will have to drop that price, but note that it is not a "ride away" price, so the bike will set you back at least $25k regardless. As I said to the guys at the show today, it's just too expensive. They debated this, but they at least bit their lip when I said the tank capacity was too small. I even said I'd prefer to wait until they had dropped the price after nobody bought them; I don't think that went down well.
[image: View Post]kaldek, on 26 February 2010 - 02:21 AM, said:
...but they at least bit their lip when I said the tank capacity was too small.
I keep wondering if Honda will see the light and offer a bigger tank as an option or aftermarket item in the future. :unsure:
IIRC the SuperHawk's tank size was increased after a couple model years (don't quote me on that), but even then it was kind of small considering that bike's poor fuel economy.
[image: View Post]Throttlestop, on 25 February 2010 - 07:57 PM, said:
[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 25 February 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:
I'll pick up a lightly damaged VFR1200 at the Ins. Auction over the next year or two for a few grand and go from there! Posted Image
And how would you do that, when almost everyone (here at least) says they'll be buying the BMW/Kawasaki/Triumph instead?
Get used to higher prices. Americans have been paying ridiculously low prices for their bikes compared to the rest of the world for too long. It blows my mind to read that a US buyer can actually walk out of a dealership with a new Suzuki 1000 for US$11k and a Ducati 1198S for US$19k, when people in most other parts of the world (taxes notwithstanding) have to pay an average of US$21k and US$37k respectively for the very same bikes.
Ask a Norwegian or a Malaysian how much their bikes cost. And make sure you're sitting down when the answer comes. :)
I could be wrong but aren't bike prices in other countries (UK, Canada, etc) higher than the U. S. prices due to taxes and tariffs?
And yes, $15K for the new VFR is way more than I'm willing to spend.
I remember when the RWB 6th gen. was released and they were "rare", in demand machines, and priced at about $12K but now you can find dealers that still have them and are selling them for $8000-$9000. I bet in a few years after all the hype dies down, you'll be able to pick one up at a more reasonable price. That is also depending on the demand. If a lot of people turn there noses up at a VFR because of the price and aren't buying them, many will be sitting on showroom floors until Big Red makes an adjustment. On the other hand, die-hard Honda lovers will buy it simply because it's a Honda regardless of its Beemer price tag.
If I'm in the market for a VFR in the future I will look for a good used 1200 in the $5K range.
[image: View Post]TimC, on 26 February 2010 - 08:43 AM, said:
[image: View Post]kaldek, on 26 February 2010 - 02:21 AM, said:
...but they at least bit their lip when I said the tank capacity was too small.
I keep wondering if Honda will see the light and offer a bigger tank as an option or aftermarket item in the future. :unsure:
IIRC the SuperHawk's tank size was increased after a couple model years (don't quote me on that), but even then it was kind of small considering that bike's poor fuel economy.
You are correct. The original VTR had a 16 litre tank. In 2001 capacity was increased by 3 litres to 19 litres. Still too small, but better. I think they also provided a fuel gauge/warning light from that model on as well. I had a '97 and got very weary of looking for petrol stations.
Pricing in Oz has been confirmed at $A24999 +ORC so close to 26k. That price DOES include the centrestand as standard, but the DCT modle is expected to be about $A1300 more.
[image: View Post]Throttlestop, on 25 February 2010 - 07:57 PM, said:
[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 25 February 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:
I'll pick up a lightly damaged VFR1200 at the Ins. Auction over the next year or two for a few grand and go from there! Posted Image
And how would you do that, when almost everyone (here at least) says they'll be buying the BMW/Kawasaki/Triumph instead?
Get used to higher prices. Americans have been paying ridiculously low prices for their bikes compared to the rest of the world for too long. It blows my mind to read that a US buyer can actually walk out of a dealership with a new Suzuki 1000 for US$11k and a Ducati 1198S for US$19k, when people in most other parts of the world (taxes notwithstanding) have to pay an average of US$21k and US$37k respectively for the very same bikes.
Ask a Norwegian or a Malaysian how much their bikes cost. And make sure you're sitting down when the answer comes. :)
not to make this political, but this is the attitude that gets everyone in trouble....americans pay what the american market will bear. if your market (no idea where you are) bears more, then you will pay more. getting upset about what americans pay doesn't fix the problem. if your govt puts tariffs, VAT, etc on the bike or perhaps some carbon tax, then that is up to that country's population to fix. if the currency is week, then the country needs to improve its financial situation to make it stronger. either way, it has no bearing on what a bike costs in the US. WE SHOULD ALL WISH THAT EVERYONE PAID AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE, NOT THAT EVERYONE PAYS THE HIGHER PRICE THAT SOME GOVERNMENT CAN GET SOMEONE TO SWALLOW. :ph34r:
[image: View Post]JHKolb, on 25 February 2010 - 08:32 AM, said:
You are correct on Honda's new pricing, just plain stupid high. Granted, the bike may actually be worth that price given the R&D and tech that it has...
Pricing your new fancy widget out of the reach of much of your target market because you racked up huge R&D expenses does not add worth to the product.
[image: View Post]FotoMoto, on 25 February 2010 - 04:38 PM, said:
[image: View Post]rodm850g, on 25 February 2010 - 12:09 PM, said:
Just a thought but the new ST1300A model is the same money...at any rate to have the best of both worlds
Not that I'm against MBS but then you have double the insurance, double the registrations, double the maintenance, double the mods, double the......... :warranty:
On another note......
I was selling bikes when the then brand new GL1500 six came out at a whopping $10,000 USD. I flatly told the GM that we'd never, ever sell a $10k motorcycle. :blush:
Very true on the GW. I remember the talk of the six being too much this, too much that and sales were flat initially. Change is hard on older people, the six was just better in almost every way and eventually the truth came out. The new VFR is doing a 10.33 with a shaft, not much heavier than the fifth or sixth generation vfr, with over 50% more displacement and numerous other features. Wow, I'll be getting one. It's a huge step better than the past. You pay for progress. I was laughed at when I bought one of the first generation Lexus's after having MB and BMW, now many buyer's see their value (details). I bet Honda knows what they are doing, obviously other's disagree. :beer:
[image: View Post]kaldek, on 26 February 2010 - 02:21 AM, said:
OK folks, Honda has the new VFR on display at the Superbikes this weekend. Saw it in the flesh - it does indeed look as good as everyone says. And best (worst?) of all, I have the official Australian price: $24,990 inc. GST, which includes the centrestand (standard on all Aussie models).
I am unsure what wriggle room dealers will have to drop that price, but note that it is not a "ride away" price, so the bike will set you back at least $25k regardless. As I said to the guys at the show today, it's just too expensive. They debated this, but they at least bit their lip when I said the tank capacity was too small. I even said I'd prefer to wait until they had dropped the price after nobody bought them; I don't think that went down well.
Greetings again folks. As tends to happen at the Superbikes, people come up to me and ask me about the panniers on my '02 (or the tire pressure sensors, or the voltage meter, etc). Anyway a fellow talking to me about my panniers said a mate who owns a dealership was offering him a VFR1200 at "cost price". Which, after on-road costs (stamp duty & registration) is $24,500 inc. GST. The RRP rideaway price would be $26,000, give or take a hundred bucks.
This basically means there is very little in it for a dealer. I think the best option for new buyers is to screw the dealer down on bike price but include accessories like panniers, where the margin is likely to be much greater.
On another note, based on my discussions with the other manufacturers at the Superbikes expo, Honda has their sights set squarely. Allow me to demonstrate:
BMW K1300R (I didn't check the "S" model, because hey, I like the "R")
--------------
Entry price: about $25k
ABS: $1,700 extra
Fuel tank: same as the VFR1200 (roughly)
Retail price with ABS: close to $2k more than the VFR. If you want TCS as well, add another $500.
[image: View Post]TimC, on 25 February 2010 - 10:01 AM, said:
One thing the naysayers should keep in mind is Honda's fit and finish, said to be the best ever on the new VFR, and their top-notch reliability. Plus, sample labor rates at dealer shops for both brands, not to mention the # of Honda dealers out there vs. BMW dealers. Not to put BMW down, but there are other things besides purchase price to consider.
[image: View Post]rc36Honda, on 27 February 2010 - 10:52 PM, said:
[image: View Post]TimC, on 26 February 2010 - 08:43 AM, said:
IIRC the SuperHawk's tank size was increased after a couple model years (don't quote me on that),
You are correct. The original VTR had a 16 litre tank. In 2001 capacity was increased by 3 litres to 19 litres. Still too small, but better.
Right and wrong. The slightly larger tank never made it to the USA. I ended up adopting a VTEC tank (21L) to my 98. An aftermarket endurance racing fuel cell was also available for around $1200 USD.
Because of the VFR1200 tank cover, I don't see an easy (meaning cheap) solution especially when you consider paint matching a new cover. Maybe additional fuel cells located elsewhere on the bike like the ironbutt guys do.
[image: View Post]Jlewis50, on 25 February 2010 - 06:53 AM, said:
Spoke with the Honda Dealership in Sumter SC about the new VFR. The manual transmission model will retail over $15k!!!!!!!!!!!The paddle shift model will push $17500.
If this is indeed true Honda has priced themselves out of the market on this bike. This is in Gold Wing territory.
This shop is know for discounting bikes. A new CBR1000 is less than $10k.
I think for the money I had rather go BMW or maybe a Kawasaki Concours. .
Joe
I hope you have an inseam longer than 30"!!!! I sat on the connie this past summer and couldnt get but my toes to touch....and it felt like a Pig!
and about Honda overpricing the new VFR.....blame the U.S. government for devaluing the dollar to .50 cents!
Will Obama get us back to a "Dollar" instead of just small change?
Im hoping the dealer will be able to come off the price on the heated grips...and bags.
The VFR was in a niche market, a small sport tourer that was the sportiest of the bunch, and had all of the nice features at a great price. Now it's up-sized into the standard sport tourer market, and sorry I'll buy a BMW if I want a bike that falls in that category, and the main thing that separate these categories is the price, it's the #1 reason I'm not riding a K1200R Sport right now. (#2 reason is the K1200R doesn't come in RED LOL)
[image: View Post]FotoMoto, on 03 March 2010 - 09:52 AM, said:
Because of the VFR1200 tank cover, I don't see an easy (meaning cheap) solution especially when you consider paint matching a new cover. Maybe additional fuel cells located elsewhere on the bike like the ironbutt guys do.
I'm kind of hoping the VFR1200T has a bigger tank which could possibly fit under the VFR1200F tank cover. That would be nice.
But hey, Honda has said all other versions "depend on how this one sells".....
[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 25 February 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:
I'll pick up a lightly damaged VFR1200 at the Ins. Auction over the next year or two for a few grand and go from there! Posted Image
From the looks of the fairings and exhaust can, if they get cracked and rashed up, that's probably all it will take for the insurance company to total it. Posted Image
[image: View Post]Throttlestop, on 25 February 2010 - 07:57 PM, said:
[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 25 February 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:
I'll pick up a lightly damaged VFR1200 at the Ins. Auction over the next year or two for a few grand and go from there! Posted Image
And how would you do that, when almost everyone (here at least) says they'll be buying the BMW/Kawasaki/Triumph instead?
Get used to higher prices. Americans have been paying ridiculously low prices for their bikes compared to the rest of the world for too long. It blows my mind to read that a US buyer can actually walk out of a dealership with a new Suzuki 1000 for US$11k and a Ducati 1198S for US$19k, when people in most other parts of the world (taxes notwithstanding) have to pay an average of US$21k and US$37k respectively for the very same bikes.
Ask a Norwegian or a Malaysian how much their bikes cost. And make sure you're sitting down when the answer comes. Posted Image
And there you have it, the difference between capitalism and socialism. Posted Image [please be gentle]
[image: View Post]Knife, on 04 March 2010 - 01:06 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Throttlestop, on 25 February 2010 - 07:57 PM, said:
[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 25 February 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:
I'll pick up a lightly damaged VFR1200 at the Ins. Auction over the next year or two for a few grand and go from there! Posted Image
And how would you do that, when almost everyone (here at least) says they'll be buying the BMW/Kawasaki/Triumph instead?
Get used to higher prices. Americans have been paying ridiculously low prices for their bikes compared to the rest of the world for too long. It blows my mind to read that a US buyer can actually walk out of a dealership with a new Suzuki 1000 for US$11k and a Ducati 1198S for US$19k, when people in most other parts of the world (taxes notwithstanding) have to pay an average of US$21k and US$37k respectively for the very same bikes.
Ask a Norwegian or a Malaysian how much their bikes cost. And make sure you're sitting down when the answer comes. Posted Image
And there you have it, the difference between capitalism and socialism. Posted Image [please be gentle]
LOL, that's funny!. I'll ship from the states, we can split the difference. Oh wait the difference is the import tariffs and taxes. Yea, we don't let our government do that to us, of course the current government is going to make me eat those words.
[image: View Post]Jussi, on 04 March 2010 - 02:15 PM, said:
VFR1200 sure is expensive bike but is it too expensive?
Here in Finland we have to pay quite lot for any new bike.
Anyway I think VFR1200 is fairly priced in it's reference group.
I quote some of our 2010 model prices in US$ (base prices converted from Euros).
VFR800 VTEC - $23300
VFR1200 - $28000
K1300S ABS - $30250
ZZR1400 ABS - $28400
Hayabusa - $23900
MTS1200 base - $29700
MTS1200 S ABS - $40100
-J-
wow that's alot but then again if I wasn't spending 8k a year on health insurance maybe 23k for a 6th gen wouldn't be so bad. So, say you had an new '07 on the shelf would the rebate/discount be the same ratio? around 11k euro out the door?
The other thing the US has going for it is a bigger market (300+mil), stiff market competition, and in the south you can ride all year round making them more popular as a main transportation vehicle, I live in the great lakes area so in a good year I get maybe 5mo's of good riding weather, making my bike a rec. vehicle.