Suffice it to say they think the VFR1200f is a tourture device with snatchy brakes, hard as a rock seat, just as hard suspension, and a poorly sorted outted engine. Here is the rub - the numbers they quote tell a completely different story.
The competition
2010 vfr1200f
2010 Kawasaki Concours 1400
2010 Yamaha FJR 1200
Suspension, they bag on the VFR for not having fully adjustable suspension for the price, however niether does the Concours it is also only rebound adjustable on theforks and shock = same diff? The vfr is brutally stiff they say? for me I found it that way too but after clicking off alot of rebound found it more then compliant enough The FJR on the other hand is fully adjustable so why does the connie win? plush for highway riding and blah blah. Reading how they adjusted the preload (they obviously never heard of sag), to drop the front and the back even more - then complain about the bike lacking corerning grip it is ludeacris, of course now that you took all the wieght off the front end sure its gonna skip around?\\
Me I did the opposite I ADDED preload on the rear and dropped the front a click off, softened the rebound on the forks a full 6 clicks and the shock a full turn and came up with a nice ride! Much sweeter in the tight stuff than stock! Bah whey take off preload in the back?
Brakes - here is where they really lose me. The VFR measured the shortest distance in their braking tests by a former 250gp racer 117.4' from 60mph, the The FJR 119 also linked and abs, and the Connie in at 123? OK numbers good! Mentions all around about the radial brakes on the connie, Combined links brakes on the FJR, but NO MENTION of the monoblock calipers on the vfr? They actually commend a more difficult firmer lever pull on the connie? I dont get it one finger braking - less effort - best stop distance how could the vfr come in 3rd? WTF?
Ergonomics - I wont argue egonomics, upright no weight on the arms no sport position for the other two yea ok its not a touring bike, but for me strait up and down all my wieght on my butt all day thats harder to do then all day with some wieght spread out on my arms back and butt? OK these guys are not into the sport position so much.
Engine - once again they cant count fastest 1/4 mile time, most hp, best top speed? what the hell 3rd? Numbers dont mean much as MCN I suppose? why quote them then? its all subjective. the bags are a bad fuel mapping, on/off transitions lower gear harshness _ I wont argue that I found it too. However again I rode a connie this last week, not nearly the 5th and 6th gear roll on power as the viffer. snatchy throttle an first gear? No I am not buying the engine if they go with fueling issues spoiling its ranking. I find I can ride it rather smoothly - adding a note about the vfr needing traction control but not the FJR? come on thats unfair? The connie has it
Handling - yea ok hamstring the bike by lowering the back end too much then make it softer sure the bike wont handle too well!
No I not in agreement with the article at all to say the least, I just thought I should add my two cents since I too have ridden all three bikes!
Transmissions and drive lines vfr won that catagory
MCN continues to be a joke. IMO they've been biased against VFRs for a long time now. :dry: And very few moto-journalists understand that VFRs are designed to be all-arounders, so of course it's going to fall short when compared to more narrowly focused bikes.
The FJR is the most touring oriented bike of these 3, and probably the most affordable touring bike I'd choose to take cross-country. And while the Connie 14 is a great bike, I'd rather have a VFR.
I am talking about the magazine motorycle consumer news in the usa the member supported subscriber publication not Motorcycle News UK
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 09 July 2010 - 09:26 AM, said:
I am talking about the magazine motorycle consumer news in the usa the member supported subscriber publication not Motorcycle News UK
Oops. My bad. Then I take back some of what I said. "Motorcycle Consumer News" is usually terrific and unbiased. But I still say comparing VFRs to most other bikes is an apples-to-oranges deal.
odear. This new VFR isn't doing as well as Honda would of hoped.
I don't care, I'll still be buying one in a year or so. Buying a motorcycle has always been about the head ruling the heart, the irrational so I've learnt to not care about these stupid articles.. I just read them for amusement.
I guess Honda has fell victim by their own success, the 5th gen is so damn good - they should of used it as a template, but then come to think of it when I rode the 1200 it seemed earily similar.
Cycle World's April issue had a big write up of the new VFR (and it was on the cover). As far as they were concerned, the new VFR is the greatest thing since sliced bread, they even called it 'Stunning'.
Quote: "When you ride the new VFR, you know Honda means it. Everything about this bike exemplifies the hard-won reputation of striving for advancement, quality and precision. The VFR's performance is broad and impressive." I think that about sums it up for me.
I've also seen a couple YouTube video reviews where the reviewers all said the same thing...the new VFR is a pleasure to ride, comfortable and responsive.
If you like/love your VFR, who cares what anyone else thinks. You bought the VFR for you to ride, not because someone told you to. Don't get caught up in the hype or lack thereof. Just keep riding and be happy with your choice.
[image: View Post]michaelf3, on 09 July 2010 - 02:08 PM, said:
If you like/love your VFR, who cares what anyone else thinks. You bought the VFR for you to ride, not because someone told you to. Don't get caught up in the hype or lack thereof. Just keep riding and be happy with your choice.
We have a bingo! :fing02: :+1:
I haven�t received the latest issue of MCN yet, but have found it to have the most unbiased opinions published. Keep in mind that magazines like Cycle World receive significant advertising income from companies like Honda and their reviews reflect it. They also don�t have manufacturer representatives dialing in the suspension for them or for that matter even feel any pressure to try to get the best out of the machines. With that in mind, I take MCN for what it�s worth: the opinion of fellow motorcycle enthusiasts. Thank you HS for keeping us updated with your opinions of the new bike. I have been closely following your write-ups.
[image: View Post]michaelf3, on 09 July 2010 - 02:08 PM, said:
If you like/love your VFR, who cares what anyone else thinks. You bought the VFR for you to ride, not because someone told you to. Don't get caught up in the hype or lack thereof. Just keep riding and be happy with your choice.
exactly!!!
F#@% ALL OF YOU!!
its MY vfr and i love it!!! :laughing6-hehe:
I read that article this am and I was surprised at the anti VFR bias in there and I haven't even ridden one yet. My guess is the next years version will address some of those issues. I have ridden an FJR tho and its parking lot manners are horrible, no mention of that in there.
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on 09 July 2010 - 10:35 AM, said:
I don't care, I'll still be buying one in a year or so. Buying a motorcycle has always been about the head ruling the heart, the irrational so I've learnt to not care about these stupid articles.. I just read them for amusement.
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/+1.gif
I'll be looking to purchasing one in a year or two myself. Nothing been written in review to date to change my mind from getting one. I don't really give a sheet about Mag reviews, yeah it's nice to read good things about it, regardless of what's said, the good (there's plenty), the bad (nothing that bad yet), the ugly (nothing ugly 'bout it to me), I really like the bike and that's all that matter to me.
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 09 July 2010 - 09:58 AM, said:
The competition
2010 vfr1200f
2010 Kawasaki Concours 1400
2010 Yamaha FJR 1200
Humm, maybe its me, but does the VFR belong in that group? The ST1300 belongs with those bikes, not the VFR1200. The VFR is still in a class of its own.
[image: View Post]dweese, on 09 July 2010 - 02:19 PM, said:
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 09 July 2010 - 09:58 AM, said:
The competition
2010 vfr1200f
2010 Kawasaki Concours 1400
2010 Yamaha FJR 1200
Humm, maybe its me, but does the VFR belong in that group? The ST1300 belongs with those bikes, not the VFR1200. The VFR is still in a class of its own.
I think the quote that summarizes the article best is that "Honda has answered the question nobody asked." The new bike is too big and heavy to be a sport bike and too uncomfortable and not enough amenities to be a good sport-touring bike.
Flash
[image: View Post]Mobius, on 09 July 2010 - 11:30 AM, said:
I haven�t received the latest issue of MCN yet, but have found it to have the most unbiased opinions published. Keep in mind that magazines like Cycle World receive significant advertising income from companies like Honda and their reviews reflect it. They also don�t have manufacturer representatives dialing in the suspension for them or for that matter even feel any pressure to try to get the best out of the machines. With that in mind, I take MCN for what it�s worth: the opinion of fellow motorcycle enthusiasts. Thank you HS for keeping us updated with your opinions of the new bike. I have been closely following your write-ups.
A big story broke a couple days ago about
Motorcyclist Magazine firing journalist Dexter Ford because a few of the magazine's advertisers didn't like an article he wrote, and put pressure on Caterson, the editor, to deal with Ford. I'd rather read reviews from the people that own bikes and tinker with them. They're the ones that have the time and interest to really explore the good and bad of a bike.
[image: View Post]Mobius, on 09 July 2010 - 12:30 PM, said:
I haven�t received the latest issue of MCN yet, but have found it to have the most unbiased opinions published. Keep in mind that magazines like Cycle World receive significant advertising income from companies like Honda and their reviews reflect it. They also don�t have manufacturer representatives dialing in the suspension for them or for that matter even feel any pressure to try to get the best out of the machines. With that in mind, I take MCN for what it�s worth: the opinion of fellow motorcycle enthusiasts. Thank you HS for keeping us updated with your opinions of the new bike. I have been closely following your write-ups.
I agree I found through the years that I tend to keep my MCN mags, however this article was not somthing I can let slide. Seperating the bike into seperate classifications, components, and then quoting real quantifiable data only to toss it aside for subjective "feel" assertions it really does not sit too well with me. Comming from an industry that puts a premium on data, the subjective side should be weighted much less then it was in this article. The whole brake agument with VFRS brakes being snatchy does not work for me either, I found them to be excellent. They commented that the brake pads on the Honda are snatchy enough to be overpowering if a rider thoughtlessly grabs a handfull of front brake, and it takes a steady hand to trail brake on the VFR. Never mind that the vfr is outfitted with ABS standard, a handful of brakes is going to addressed by the ABS, after reading countless times how trail braking is not a valid street riding technique for the street and should be used for the track - why is it even considered in this test as somthing to devalue the vfr with, it did afterall have the shortest stop distance? It seems to me they have a problem with ABS all together and its mentioned they actively try to modulate the brakes to avoid ABS from being engaged? - you cant have it both ways, count abs as a plus then actively try to avoid using as if it was a negative? Whats the point of the of "in fact although one finger braking is posible, it now takes a firm lever pull to slow the C14..." More of a pull less stoping distance? thats less performance in my book!
A case in point are the reviews of the superbikes. The 2009 R-1 is ranked first and last depending on what mag you're reading. The CBR is also just a tick behind the BMW or near the bottom. Same with the Suzuki and the Ducati. What gets me is when they do a huge report and find out the guy riding the bike (pick one) didn't have the right fuel map selected. And then they conclude, "oh well, you snooze you lose." I've also read that the BMW S 1000RR has the best brakes and another mag said they were not so good.
I would think that when a magazine calls for a distributor to provide a bike, you'd think the distributor would make sure the set up and all systems were to the best they could be and matched the rider. So many articles complain of poor setup affecting the overall standings. The article about the VFR vs the Multistrada complained of the hunting and surging of the Duc right in the middle of cruising range, 60 or 70 and I thought that would be a killer, but they bitched more about the VFR's lag in the bottom two gears. Who knows, I'll trust Miguel to give accurate reports.
Miguel,
I'll bet the MCN editor is just jealous that their readership didn't ante up to buy a VFR for him.
:biggrin:
That comment was offered partly in jest - I am a longtime MCN subscriber.
However, only partly in jest. Miguel, I think you raised good/fair/valid points about the comments in that article, even if I have not yet seen it. I look forward to receiving & reading it, but I will certainly keep your comments in mind.
Enjoy the ride,
Ron
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 09 July 2010 - 08:30 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Mobius, on 09 July 2010 - 12:30 PM, said:
I haven�t received the latest issue of MCN yet, but have found it to have the most unbiased opinions published. Keep in mind that magazines like Cycle World receive significant advertising income from companies like Honda and their reviews reflect it. They also don�t have manufacturer representatives dialing in the suspension for them or for that matter even feel any pressure to try to get the best out of the machines. With that in mind, I take MCN for what it�s worth: the opinion of fellow motorcycle enthusiasts. Thank you HS for keeping us updated with your opinions of the new bike. I have been closely following your write-ups.
I agree I found through the years that I tend to keep my MCN mags, however this article was not somthing I can let slide. Seperating the bike into seperate classifications, components, and then quoting real quantifiable data only to toss it aside for subjective "feel" assertions it really does not sit too well with me. Comming from an industry that puts a premium on data, the subjective side should be weighted much less then it was in this article. The whole brake agument with VFRS brakes being snatchy does not work for me either, I found them to be excellent. They commented that the brake pads on the Honda are snatchy enough to be overpowering if a rider thoughtlessly grabs a handfull of front brake, and it takes a steady hand to trail brake on the VFR. Never mind that the vfr is outfitted with ABS standard, a handful of brakes is going to addressed by the ABS, after reading countless times how trail braking is not a valid street riding technique for the street and should be used for the track - why is it even considered in this test as somthing to devalue the vfr with, it did afterall have the shortest stop distance? It seems to me they have a problem with ABS all together and its mentioned they actively try to modulate the brakes to avoid ABS from being engaged? - you cant have it both ways, count abs as a plus then actively try to avoid using as if it was a negative? Whats the point of the of "in fact although one finger braking is posible, it now takes a firm lever pull to slow the C14..." More of a pull less stoping distance? thats less performance in my book!
As I stated recently after ridin' the VFR1200....Great Engine and Brakes. I've ridden a lota' miles on Concours 1400s because I have Friends that own them. I ride Mike's Concours and V-Rod for Him all the time because He drives a Truck and wants em' ridden. I really like the Concours...but....one lunch hour on the VFR and I enjoyed it much more than several hundred miles on the Kawasaki. THE VFR1200 BRAKES ARE AS GOOD AS ANY BIKE I HAVE EVER RIDDEN...EVER, and that is stacked up against a lota' Bikes. Only "flaws" I found were the small gas tank (I really don't understand Honda's thinking here), and the Handlebar reach was just a "tick" long for me (no surprise there, just a personal issue and easily fixed if I bought one)....I've never liked the FJR...waaaay too many little quirks, and parking lots/really tight, narrow roads (Lynchburg Ridges come to mind) are dismal. Given the three choices here, the VFR1200 would get the nod and my Bucks after riding all three. The new VFR1200 (IMO) is a FANTASTIC MOTORCYCLE, and I would love to own one...especially with a 6 gallon gas tank.....ENJOY it Miguel... :fing02: :beer: ........go ride it and stop readin' about it...... :goofy:
[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on 10 July 2010 - 03:38 AM, said:
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 09 July 2010 - 08:30 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Mobius, on 09 July 2010 - 12:30 PM, said:
I haven’t received the latest issue of MCN yet, but have found it to have the most unbiased opinions published. Keep in mind that magazines like Cycle World receive significant advertising income from companies like Honda and their reviews reflect it. They also don’t have manufacturer representatives dialing in the suspension for them or for that matter even feel any pressure to try to get the best out of the machines. With that in mind, I take MCN for what it’s worth: the opinion of fellow motorcycle enthusiasts. Thank you HS for keeping us updated with your opinions of the new bike. I have been closely following your write-ups.
I agree I found through the years that I tend to keep my MCN mags, however this article was not somthing I can let slide. Seperating the bike into seperate classifications, components, and then quoting real quantifiable data only to toss it aside for subjective "feel" assertions it really does not sit too well with me. Comming from an industry that puts a premium on data, the subjective side should be weighted much less then it was in this article. The whole brake agument with VFRS brakes being snatchy does not work for me either, I found them to be excellent. They commented that the brake pads on the Honda are snatchy enough to be overpowering if a rider thoughtlessly grabs a handfull of front brake, and it takes a steady hand to trail brake on the VFR. Never mind that the vfr is outfitted with ABS standard, a handful of brakes is going to addressed by the ABS, after reading countless times how trail braking is not a valid street riding technique for the street and should be used for the track - why is it even considered in this test as somthing to devalue the vfr with, it did afterall have the shortest stop distance? It seems to me they have a problem with ABS all together and its mentioned they actively try to modulate the brakes to avoid ABS from being engaged? - you cant have it both ways, count abs as a plus then actively try to avoid using as if it was a negative? Whats the point of the of "in fact although one finger braking is posible, it now takes a firm lever pull to slow the C14..." More of a pull less stoping distance? thats less performance in my book!
As I stated recently after ridin' the VFR1200....Great Engine and Brakes. I've ridden a lota' miles on Concours 1400s because I have Friends that own them. I ride Mike's Concours and V-Rod for Him all the time because He drives a Truck and wants em' ridden. I really like the Concours...but....one lunch hour on the VFR and I enjoyed it much more than several hundred miles on the Kawasaki. THE VFR1200 BRAKES ARE AS GOOD AS ANY BIKE I HAVE EVER RIDDEN...EVER, and that is stacked up against a lota' Bikes. Only "flaws" I found were the small gas tank (I really don't understand Honda's thinking here), and the Handlebar reach was just a "tick" long for me (no surprise there, just a personal issue and easily fixed if I bought one)....I've never liked the FJR...waaaay too many little quirks, and parking lots/really tight, narrow roads (Lynchburg Ridges come to mind) are dismal. Given the three choices here, the VFR1200 would get the nod and my Bucks after riding all three. The new VFR1200 (IMO) is a FANTASTIC MOTORCYCLE, and I would love to own one...especially with a 6 gallon gas tank.....ENJOY it Miguel... :fing02: :beer: ........go ride it and stop readin' about it...... :goofy:
Honestly the reviews dont mean much to me. The VFR is the best all round bike i have ever ridden. Its not a jack of all trades, its a master of all trades. Sure there are other bikes that can 1 thing extremely well and better than the vfr, but thats all they do exceptionally well.
edit: if my bike ends up breaking down for whatever reason this is subject to change, lol!
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 10 July 2010 - 02:30 AM, said:
[image: View Post]Mobius, on 09 July 2010 - 12:30 PM, said:
I haven�t received the latest issue of MCN yet, but have found it to have the most unbiased opinions published. Keep in mind that magazines like Cycle World receive significant advertising income from companies like Honda and their reviews reflect it. They also don�t have manufacturer representatives dialing in the suspension for them or for that matter even feel any pressure to try to get the best out of the machines. With that in mind, I take MCN for what it�s worth: the opinion of fellow motorcycle enthusiasts. Thank you HS for keeping us updated with your opinions of the new bike. I have been closely following your write-ups.
I agree I found through the years that I tend to keep my MCN mags, however this article was not somthing I can let slide. Seperating the bike into seperate classifications, components, and then quoting real quantifiable data only to toss it aside for subjective "feel" assertions it really does not sit too well with me. Comming from an industry that puts a premium on data, the subjective side should be weighted much less then it was in this article. The whole brake agument with VFRS brakes being snatchy does not work for me either, I found them to be excellent. They commented that the brake pads on the Honda are snatchy enough to be overpowering if a rider thoughtlessly grabs a handfull of front brake, and it takes a steady hand to trail brake on the VFR. Never mind that the vfr is outfitted with ABS standard, a handful of brakes is going to addressed by the ABS, after reading countless times how trail braking is not a valid street riding technique for the street and should be used for the track - why is it even considered in this test as somthing to devalue the vfr with, it did afterall have the shortest stop distance? It seems to me they have a problem with ABS all together and its mentioned they actively try to modulate the brakes to avoid ABS from being engaged? - you cant have it both ways, count abs as a plus then actively try to avoid using as if it was a negative? Whats the point of the of "in fact although one finger braking is posible, it now takes a firm lever pull to slow the C14..." More of a pull less stoping distance? thats less performance in my book!
I spent an hour on the 1200 and was pruposely ham-fisted with the brakes andclutch and general handling to try and upset the bike... didn't budge... and all the "feeling" in the bike to me was smooth as a babies butt... I could not get the ABS to come into action and it had rained a little that morning (I rode in the arvo)... but even so, the bike came to a stop in a planted and trust-inspiring way... I didn't care about going down, it was the dealer's bike so I was really really brutish with her... typical of the VFR, it has very "noble" handling... stable as a rock. The small on/off throttle delay in the shaft drive at 2000 RPM isn't really annoying and is something many shaft drives do... but who rides a V4 at 2000 RPM???
And it's a freakin' rocket... without ripping your arms off you're doing double the legal speed and you don't even feel it...
These guys did the exact opposite of proper suspension adjustment... saggy assed bikes just don't handle as well...
Odd report all round.
I knew that new 1200 VFR would be a POS! :laughing6-hehe:
[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 10 July 2010 - 07:42 PM, said:
I knew that new 1200 VFR would be a POS! :laughing6-hehe:
Yeeep, you bes be sticken' with yer ol 800 bowy, leave the twelve hunnerts fer the big boys y'hear
And this just points out how much dealers and Mother Honda need to wake up and have some demo days rides with this bike.
Even after the recent price drop, this bike is not going to sell out the door on looks alone. It needs to be test ridden to be appreciated.
What a BS comparison! They didn't even give the VFR kudos for having the lightest gas tank! What a crock! (J/K)
[image: View Post]Knife, on 16 July 2010 - 01:08 PM, said:
What a BS comparison! They didn't even give the VFR kudos for having the lightest gas tank! What a crock! (J/K)
Heh...
I was pleasently surprised to get 41-42 mpg on my last "touring" tank, mostly slab with about 30 miles of twisties thrown in. Not bad if you ask me. I could have gotten 200 miles on that tank but chickened out. ;-)
End of thread · 26 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 21 Jul 2010