VFR Steering Quirk?

As the miles mount, I'm learning more about the way the 1200 works. I've noticed a bit of a quirk in the way the bike turns that is a bit unusual as least by my experience.

When turning into a typical turn or sweeper on my 800, I usually maintain a moderate degree of body and light counter steer thru the turn. On the 1200, I've noticed recently that after the initial turn-in, if I simply release the counter steering pressure (i.e. neutral steering input) and maintain body steering, the bike practically leans or steers itself into and thru the turn. The sensation I feel is almost like I'm turning the bars into the turn, I'm not actually but it feels that way. Before doing this, the counter steering effort actually felt heavy almost like it resisted counter steering, but by adopting this new method the steering suddenly becomes light and almost effortless, and the bike rails the turns as good if not better than before with counter steering.

I've experimented with lowering the front and raising the rear a few mm to reduce trail, but the same sensation is there but with only slightly less counter steering effort. Has anyone else noticed this?

I'm wondering if this is a characteristic the Dunlop Roadsmarts, this is my first experience with them. I may try the Pilot Power 2CT next as this is what I typically run on the 800.

While I haven't really noticed this exactly, my VFR does steer kind of different from most other bikes I've owned. I can't really put my finger on the cause, maybe it's 'cause the bike is kind of long. I think I remember BMW 1200S owners mentioning this as well. The bikes do look a lot alike dimension-wise anyway.

I have no issues with the steering but I do have some issues with the stock suspension, over all. The word "Harsh" comes to mind. :-)

[image: View Post]mayner, on 18 July 2010 - 11:58 PM, said:

While I haven't really noticed this exactly, my VFR does steer kind of different from most other bikes I've owned. I can't really put my finger on the cause, maybe it's 'cause the bike is kind of long. I think I remember BMW 1200S owners mentioning this as well. The bikes do look a lot alike dimension-wise anyway.

I have no issues with the steering but I do have some issues with the stock suspension, over all. The word "Harsh" comes to mind. :-)

I don't know what just happened, but a little bit ago I posted a reply and it up and disappeared!

Anyway, what I posted was that you should reduce the rebound damping. The front rebound was set to 3 clicks out stock, I set it to 6 clicks out; the rear was set at about 3/4 turns out, I settled on 1 turn out.
It sounds counterintuitive but rebound has a big effect on harshness. Too much and it becomes harsh, too little and the bike gets that floaty feeling. Overall I find the suspension very well dialed for a guy of my weight, 160 lbs. On all my other bikes I had a suspension pro do the internal valving and spring setup, but this is my first bike which I think doesn't need it, Honda got the stock settings pretty close to nominal for the average size rider. Later, I may opt for a Penske rear shock as they are a great piece of kit which is what I have on my 800.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 19 July 2010 - 02:06 AM, said:

[image: View Post]mayner, on 18 July 2010 - 11:58 PM, said:

While I haven't really noticed this exactly, my VFR does steer kind of different from most other bikes I've owned. I can't really put my finger on the cause, maybe it's 'cause the bike is kind of long. I think I remember BMW 1200S owners mentioning this as well. The bikes do look a lot alike dimension-wise anyway.

I have no issues with the steering but I do have some issues with the stock suspension, over all. The word "Harsh" comes to mind. :-)

I don't know what just happened, but a little bit ago I posted a reply and it up and disappeared!

Anyway, what I posted was that you should reduce the rebound damping. The front rebound was set to 3 clicks out stock, I set it to 6 clicks out; the rear was set at about 3/4 turns out, I settled on 1 turn out.
It sounds counterintuitive but rebound has a big effect on harshness. Too much and it becomes harsh, too little and the bike gets that floaty feeling. Overall I find the suspension very well dialed for a guy of my weight, 160 lbs. On all my other bikes I had a suspension pro do the internal valving and spring setup, but this is my first bike which I think doesn't need it, Honda got the stock settings pretty close to nominal for the average size rider. Later, I may opt for a Penske rear shock as they are a great piece of kit which is what I have on my 800.



I was 160 about 25 years ago. ;-)

I walk around, normally, at 220 though I'm 235 now after rehabbing a work injury. My job is such that I'll be back down at or near 220 after I return to work in a month or so. Anyway, I'll adjust the settings a little and see what works. I've attempted to adjust the rear but that plastic dial doesn't want to turn. I did read somewhere that I'm not the only one having difficulties with it. Next visit to the shop I'll have them look at it and see if the dial mechanism is defective, or, if I'm just being retarded a little bit. ;-)

[image: View Post]mayner, on 19 July 2010 - 10:25 AM, said:

I was 160 about 25 years ago. ;-)

I walk around, normally, at 220 though I'm 235 now after rehabbing a work injury. My job is such that I'll be back down at or near 220 after I return to work in a month or so...



Another male model finds happiness with the 7th gen....you can't get those $1 bills for gas if the ladies don't like the way your bumpers look...I do not want to hear more about the work injury...ok, maybe a little. :biggrin:

Post up with what the shop says about the stuck rear adjuster...

[image: View Post]mayner, on 19 July 2010 - 10:25 AM, said:

..... Anyway, I'll adjust the settings a little and see what works. I've attempted to adjust the rear but that plastic dial doesn't want to turn. I did read somewhere that I'm not the only one having difficulties with it. Next visit to the shop I'll have them look at it and see if the dial mechanism is defective, or, if I'm just being retarded a little bit. ;-)

Raise the rear end off the ground, the pre-load knob will be much easier to turn when the pressure is reduced, two fingers easy. I have a center stand and it makes it a snap.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 19 July 2010 - 12:15 PM, said:

[image: View Post]mayner, on 19 July 2010 - 10:25 AM, said:

..... Anyway, I'll adjust the settings a little and see what works. I've attempted to adjust the rear but that plastic dial doesn't want to turn. I did read somewhere that I'm not the only one having difficulties with it. Next visit to the shop I'll have them look at it and see if the dial mechanism is defective, or, if I'm just being retarded a little bit. ;-)

Raise the rear end off the ground, the pre-load knob will be much easier to turn when the pressure is reduced, two fingers easy. I have a center stand and it makes it a snap.



lol...

You must have done this before? ;-)

Went exactly as you described. I knew I put that center stand on there for a reason.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 18 July 2010 - 11:36 PM, said:

As the miles mount, I'm learning more about the way the 1200 works. I've noticed a bit of a quirk in the way the bike turns that is a bit unusual as least by my experience.

When turning into a typical turn or sweeper on my 800, I usually maintain a moderate degree of body and light counter steer thru the turn. On the 1200, I've noticed recently that after the initial turn-in, if I simply release the counter steering pressure (i.e. neutral steering input) and maintain body steering, the bike practically leans or steers itself into and thru the turn. The sensation I feel is almost like I'm turning the bars into the turn, I'm not actually but it feels that way. Before doing this, the counter steering effort actually felt heavy almost like it resisted counter steering, but by adopting this new method the steering suddenly becomes light and almost effortless, and the bike rails the turns as good if not better than before with counter steering.

I've experimented with lowering the front and raising the rear a few mm to reduce trail, but the same sensation is there but with only slightly less counter steering effort. Has anyone else noticed this?

I'm wondering if this is a characteristic the Dunlop Roadsmarts, this is my first experience with them. I may try the Pilot Power 2CT next as this is what I typically run on the 800.



I've also found that it falls in to turns a bit. When you let up off the throttle mid-turn you are loading the front end from weight transfer... this sharpens up the geometry and makes it want to turn it.

Best way to stop it from falling in: twist that throttle!

[image: View Post]phobe, on 19 July 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 18 July 2010 - 11:36 PM, said:

As the miles mount, I'm learning more about the way the 1200 works. I've noticed a bit of a quirk in the way the bike turns that is a bit unusual as least by my experience.

When turning into a typical turn or sweeper on my 800, I usually maintain a moderate degree of body and light counter steer thru the turn. On the 1200, I've noticed recently that after the initial turn-in, if I simply release the counter steering pressure (i.e. neutral steering input) and maintain body steering, the bike practically leans or steers itself into and thru the turn. The sensation I feel is almost like I'm turning the bars into the turn, I'm not actually but it feels that way. Before doing this, the counter steering effort actually felt heavy almost like it resisted counter steering, but by adopting this new method the steering suddenly becomes light and almost effortless, and the bike rails the turns as good if not better than before with counter steering.

I've experimented with lowering the front and raising the rear a few mm to reduce trail, but the same sensation is there but with only slightly less counter steering effort. Has anyone else noticed this?

I'm wondering if this is a characteristic the Dunlop Roadsmarts, this is my first experience with them. I may try the Pilot Power 2CT next as this is what I typically run on the 800.



I've also found that it falls in to turns a bit. When you let up off the throttle mid-turn you are loading the front end from weight transfer... this sharpens up the geometry and makes it want to turn it.

Best way to stop it from falling in: twist that throttle!


Believe me, I am on the throttle!

Did your suspension makeover have an effect on this? If so, how would you describe it now? I'm getting ready to talk to my local suspension guru (Dave at GP Suspension), and want to be able to give him as much information as I can.

BTW, have you noticed how contradictory some information is and opinions are? Bike Magazine, in particular, praises the 1200F ride as "beautifully balanced and supple", while most reviews and postings this side of the pond tend to use words like "harsh" and difficult, especially on less than perfect roads and in strong cross winds. "Supple" is certainly NOT a word a word that I would use. ;-) Makes me wonder whether the springs and dampers on British-spec VFRs are different from US-spec bikes. Or maybe there's a difference in the quality of the roads that we ride in the US? Or in what US riders expect our bikes to be?

[image: View Post]ddr, on 19 October 2010 - 12:36 PM, said:

Did your suspension makeover have an effect on this? If so, how would you describe it now? I'm getting ready to talk to my local suspension guru (Dave at GP Suspension), and want to be able to give him as much information as I can.

BTW, have you noticed how contradictory some information is and opinions are? Bike Magazine, in particular, praises the 1200F ride as "beautifully balanced and supple", while most reviews and postings this side of the pond tend to use words like "harsh" and difficult, especially on less than perfect roads and in strong cross winds. "Supple" is certainly NOT a word a word that I would use. ;-) Makes me wonder whether the springs and dampers on British-spec VFRs are different from US-spec bikes. Or maybe there's a difference in the quality of the roads that we ride in the US? Or in what US riders expect our bikes to be?


Hey, glad you asked. I had forgotten about this thread. I can say with an emphatic YES that my new suspension completely eliminated that unusual steering sensation. My bike is now a different beast altogether, it tips into corners with barely more than a thought, is very stable in the turns with none of that anti-counter steering feeling, and is plush on normal road bumps. I'm thinking that we in the US get different settings from Europe, because now my suspension feels "beautifully balanced and supple" Stock, at both ends the springs are too soft, compression damping insufficient. Getting it all setup properly by a suspension guru made a world of difference.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 19 July 2010 - 02:06 AM, said:

[image: View Post]mayner, on 18 July 2010 - 11:58 PM, said:

While I haven't really noticed this exactly, my VFR does steer kind of different from most other bikes I've owned. I can't really put my finger on the cause, maybe it's 'cause the bike is kind of long. I think I remember BMW 1200S owners mentioning this as well. The bikes do look a lot alike dimension-wise anyway.

I have no issues with the steering but I do have some issues with the stock suspension, over all. The word "Harsh" comes to mind. :-)

I don't know what just happened, but a little bit ago I posted a reply and it up and disappeared!

Anyway, what I posted was that you should reduce the rebound damping. The front rebound was set to 3 clicks out stock, I set it to 6 clicks out; the rear was set at about 3/4 turns out, I settled on 1 turn out.
It sounds counterintuitive but rebound has a big effect on harshness. Too much and it becomes harsh, too little and the bike gets that floaty feeling. Overall I find the suspension very well dialed for a guy of my weight, 160 lbs. On all my other bikes I had a suspension pro do the internal valving and spring setup, but this is my first bike which I think doesn't need it, Honda got the stock settings pretty close to nominal for the average size rider. Later, I may opt for a Penske rear shock as they are a great piece of kit which is what I have on my 800.


I have to agree cause I did the same thing and I weigh 158. Works like a charm.