I sent tight wad a PM. I have an 04, 60K miles, I have the honda update and the VFRNESS. I was riding last weekend and the battery died. I had to ride 2 more hours home. Battery dead at each stop.
TIGHTWADS RESPONSE
You should be able to check the final voltage at the battery...looking for 13+ just off idle, and 14.5 at 5K RPM. To check the Stator output you check at the stator connector. with it unplugged, you measured resistance from each wire to ground...there should be none. You also check resistance between each pairing of wires...1-2, 1-3, 2-3....should be about 1 ohm. Next, with the bike running (connector still unplugged) check for AC voltage between each pairing...should be 18 VAC at idle, 55-70 VAC at 5K rpm.
I was getting all kinds of readings at the battery 12.0-14.5. When I checked the harness at the stator, RR, I found them completly burnt up. Wires burnt, connector melted.
If I change the stator, RR, and my old battery, I should be fine, right? Dont want to replace one and have the other burn up. The burnt connector is where the stator plugs into the RR.
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I remember you were showing heat issues with your new rear harness right after the recall was done, this issue with that connector was probably hiding and developing in there at the same time.
I spoke with Rick from Ricks Motorsport Electrics about this issue some time ago...no one has ever been able to answer WHY it happens...I lean toward a bad R/R personally, something shorting out inside, but it could just as easily be a problem in the stator...either way that connector takes the brunt. On my bike it hasn't happened again, and I didn't change anything except the connector. Rick suggested using a terminal strip to hardwire, so you could still disconnect. I liked the idea so I put together a little kit for that..currently selling for $6:
I'm not claiming to be expert, but the more I dig into this, the more I am convinced you have to look at the whole thing as a system. If you fix one corner of the thing, you force issues to another weak link in the chain. One piece of the puzzle I didnt know is that a MOSFET type R/R will make the the stator run at a higher current and thus the stator will run hotter. The wimpy stator wires arent helping any either. --- (I'm gonna figure this damn thing out.)
[image: View Post]soichiro, on 26 September 2010 - 08:41 PM, said:
I was getting all kinds of readings at the battery 12.0-14.5. When I checked the harness at the stator, RR, I found them completly burnt up. Wires burnt, connector melted.
If I change the stator, RR, and my old battery, I should be fine, right? Dont want to replace one and have the other burn up. The burnt connector is where the stator plugs into the RR.
Here's why it happens:
The problem is due to the incomplete and inadequate electrical contact of the spade lugs in the connector. The connector melted due to the heat generated by arcing and sparking at the spade lugs.
Over some period of time the spade lugs from the yellow stator wires were only making intermittent contact along the line of the two knife edges formed into the center of the female lug. The electrostatic discharge of the arcing has eroded two thin channels on the face of the male lug. It is the heat generated from this arcing that has melted the connector and damaged the wires, and if it continues long enough it could melt the harness wires. When one of the stator wires opens it would likely damage the stator due to punch-through of the varnish insulation in an open-circuit phase while under load.
[image: View Post]kennybobby, on 26 September 2010 - 11:15 PM, said:
When one of the stator wires opens it would likely damage the stator due to punch-through of the varnish insulation in an open-circuit phase while under load.
Oh, now that's interesting to me. Can you explain this in more detail please?
It also drives some further questions:
Does this mean that if you run the stator disconnected from the regulator that it won't be damaged, because it's not under load?
Would the stator be damaged if it was run when the regulator was connected to it, but not connected to the bike?
Therefore, would a break in the main wiring (i.e. blown 30 amp fuse) to the regulator while riding cause the stator to damage itself?
Well Doug, that fried connector looks familiar. I replaced everything in the spring (stator, R/R, battery) and it was all good for a few months. Then I fried the connector between the stator and R/R just like yours. I had carefully cleaned the connectors and used dielectric grease on assembly to no avail. Tightwad sent me a repair kit that is working but it still uses a similar connector so I am suspicious about the service life I may get. I agree with the post that ties the fried connector with arcing. If I have to do it again, I will use the terminal post setup that eliminates the plug connector all together. Good luck.
I wonder if anyone has tried a compu-fire regulator on a VFR?
I am also curious about this, because I have replaced the entire charging system on one of my 5th gens, and the wires from the stator still get hot; I assume it's just a matter of time before the connector melts again. And, yes, I have added a VFRness and additional grounds. The R/R on this bike is a MOSFET style, too. I guess I could try to replace the connector, but I think there is something else that is causing this persistent problem.
Do you think we could convince Rick's to produce one of these R/R's for our bikes? I'm willing to try one out.
I had a new RR and VFRness. All was OK for a while, then my connectors burned like yours did. I replaced the battery, RR, Stator, and fixed the wiring with some repair kits I got from Tightwad. For the first time my voltage readings were what they should be. So far, so good.
One of the reasons my Stator blew out was that I had overheated the engine when my fan stopped working. Fan stopped working cause the old thermister on the radiator was no longer functioning, I got caught in a 20 mile traffic jam on the interstate and the bike overheated. Shortly after then I started having charging issues as witnessed by my onboard voltmeter, took a look at my stator connectors and they looked just like that, I had a phase of the stator toasted too look like it was dipped in chocolate. I ended up replaceing all the parts RR Stator and battery as well since I was on mile 75k or so at that point on the old girl.
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1140825289/gallery_491_1215_25378.jpg Burned Out Connector this is the connector on the old RR amazingly with one phase wire missing completely it was still charging the battery with the other two holding on by a thread
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1141005758/gallery_491_1215_16931.jpg Burned out Connector
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1141005758/gallery_491_1215_46047.jpg NO connectors Cut off connectors soldiered them and heat wraped the wires this was my first attempt lasted another 30k miles
Then I replaced the RR with a newer one with a monitor wire and removed all the connectors for this - this way I could use Most styles of RR from different manufactuers if I needed one on the road.
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1141005758/gallery_491_1215_49470.jpg Compare RR Bigger fins and an extra black voltage monitor wire on the new one, different connectors so I just cut them off and soldiered them in.
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1141005758/gallery_491_1215_12855.jpg different connectors
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1193539253/gallery_491_1215_817347.jpg 8 lead block, riveted to sub frame. Stator to RR connections
just a bit of tlc - doctors orders.
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1251239109/gallery_491_3604_4423.jpg Doctors Orders
[image: View Post]Knife, on 27 September 2010 - 09:04 AM, said:
[image: View Post]blackbuell, on 27 September 2010 - 07:57 AM, said:
Knife,
Check your yellow stator wires. Are they hot?
I'll go for a ride and check when it stops raining. Thanks.
Knife, I had the exact thing happen...Honda harness recall done, VFRness installed, new battery. Then big white connectors melted and scorched three yellow wires. I just put on crimp connectors (butt connector splice) and hard wired the yellows together. I used crimp on connectors because one electrically inclined member here suggested that solder will break over time with the vibration on a bike. It's the same reason that solid copper isn't used on motorcycles or marine applications. Stranded wire stands up to the vibration better/longer. I'm looking at Tighwad's new kit to repair and it looks like the cat's meow...
Everything seems to check out. I had to add about five inches of wire and ywo butt connectors for each wire. The yellow wires are very hot. So much so that they started to heat shrink the tubing before I even wanted to. Volts at battery are 14.5-14.6 at idle and 5k rpm.
The bike runs normally. I wouldnt think there was a problem except the 3 yellow wire are so hot. They willl burn again. It would burn skin if touched for several seconds. Gonna get tightwads kit either way.
Only thing I can figure is that the RR is stuck on the same output somehow. Dont know.
[image: View Post]soichiro, on 30 September 2010 - 06:50 PM, said:
Everything seems to check out. I had to add about five inches of wire and ywo butt connectors for each wire. The yellow wires are very hot. So much so that they started to heat shrink the tubing before I even wanted to. Volts at battery are 14.5-14.6 at idle and 5k rpm.
The bike runs normally. I wouldnt think there was a problem except the 3 yellow wire are so hot. They willl burn again. It would burn skin if touched for several seconds. Gonna get tightwads kit either way.
Only thing I can figure is that the RR is stuck on the same output somehow. Dont know.
Seeing how burnt up those stators usually are, I bet yours will be very very black, if the yellow wires are that hot. How many miles are on your stator?
[image: View Post]spud786, on 30 September 2010 - 07:13 PM, said:
[image: View Post]soichiro, on 30 September 2010 - 06:50 PM, said:
Everything seems to check out. I had to add about five inches of wire and ywo butt connectors for each wire. The yellow wires are very hot. So much so that they started to heat shrink the tubing before I even wanted to. Volts at battery are 14.5-14.6 at idle and 5k rpm.
The bike runs normally. I wouldnt think there was a problem except the 3 yellow wire are so hot. They willl burn again. It would burn skin if touched for several seconds. Gonna get tightwads kit either way.
Only thing I can figure is that the RR is stuck on the same output somehow. Dont know.
Seeing how burnt up those stators usually are, I bet yours will be very very black, if the yellow wires are that hot. How many miles are on your stator?
It's the original, 60k milkes.
I looked on ebay and all the used ones were half black, not good.
If you review most of the pictures above, you will see smoked connectors in many of them. This problem only goes away when the connectors go away. Even a terminal strip adds 4 more connection points to the equation. The connection from the wire to one connector, the connection between the terminals and the screws on both sides = 2 more and the connection from the wire to the connector on the other side. Plus you are taking a relatively thick wire, lets say a #12 and feeding it into a connector with a relatively thin neck. I haven't figured out how much cross sectional area is lost there (if any) but that too can't be a benefit.
What I did was eliminate the connectors completely by making good mechanical connections and soldering all of them completely and then insulating them. Another way would be to leave the original connectors in place and add jumper wires around them. This way under emergency conditions you could cut the jumpers and put in a new R/R (while hundreds of miles on the road) and just plug in the standard connectors until you got home. I would do it this way if I was to do it over again.
Adding a few more layers of heat sink aluminum plates on the mounting points and a metal computer fan on the fins didn't hurt either.