Front brake improvment

I want to improve the front brakes on my 83. Last year I pulled the entire system off one of the parts bikes and put it on the running bike.
Bottom line with new pads the brakes still are way under what I am used to...
My question is besides putting new braided steel lines on is there other things? I should be able to switch up master cylinders I would think, correct?
I realy dont want to go to the work and cost of going to new calipers.
Any ideas?
Thanks

Are the pistons clean? Is the master clean? Any leaks or seeping anywhere?

The brakes are never going to be as good as modern sportbike brakes, but stainless lines will make a world of difference!

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 25 January 2011 - 06:35 PM, said:

Are the pistons clean? Is the master clean? Any leaks or seeping anywhere?

The brakes are never going to be as good as modern sportbike brakes, but stainless lines will make a world of difference!



As far as I could tell after looking at them when I changed pads the pistons are clean. the master was cleaned, all old fluid removed and new put in..
I may have a bubble somewhere but after bleeding and tapping and dicking arond they got no better. There is no fluid that I can see.
first step is with out a doubt stainless bake lines. I was wondering if M/C had changed that much. I could go with new calipers but that would require machine work to make mounts.
I dont have Sebs, talent (wish I did) or access to machine tools so it has to be a failry straight forward bolt on mod.

You won't regret stainless lines. There are some cheaper alternatives now, check on Ebay and you'll see some new sources of stainless lines that cost a lot less than, say, Galfer.

If you don't see a set for the VFR, these sellers will custom make whatever you want, be that a dual line from the MC with a special banjo (my preference), or the setup for one line to a splittler and two from there. It all comes with new banjo bolts and crush washers. I've had good results on several bikes, and stainless lines are in the works for my VFR too.

BTW I didn't have good brakes on one side, it was the PO's liberal use of lube to free up the frozen caliper before I got the bike. Had to do a very thorough cleaning with abrasives to get that side back....

I don't know exactly what brakes you have, but my old track bike was a '98 F3 with 2 piston slide pin calipers. Previous owner had equipped with stainless lines and a Suzuki master cylinder. They worked great! EBC Pro Lite rotors and HH pads didn't hurt either.
If you have a stubborn air bubble, usually it can be solved by bleeding from the master cylinder banjo bolt. Same procedure as the normal bleeder valves.
For sure clean the pistons and seals, if not replace the seals. Caked on grunge makes the pistons stick, especially if they were pushed in for new pads without cleaning. My Pacific Coast had wooden feeling brakes until I took the calipers apart, cleaned, and reassembled with EBC HH pads. Work great now.

Make sure the slider pins are free enough to move with your fingers.

[image: View Post]683, on 25 January 2011 - 07:17 PM, said:

I may have a bubble somewhere but after bleeding and tapping and dicking arond they got no better. There is no fluid that I can see.



I'd say you need to spend half a day doing that again. I had this symptom last year when I changed pads and fluid, and was considering braided lines (a good, but expensive mod), still, I kept going back to squeezing lever+tap, over and over (few bubbles would come out, until none did come), and the braking felt more solid. I'm still running the original 15 year old nylon lines now.

[image: View Post]VFRSuperfreak, on 28 January 2011 - 12:13 AM, said:

[image: View Post]683, on 25 January 2011 - 07:17 PM, said:

I may have a bubble somewhere but after bleeding and tapping and dicking arond they got no better. There is no fluid that I can see.



I'd say you need to spend half a day doing that again. I had this symptom last year when I changed pads and fluid, and was considering braided lines (a good, but expensive mod), still, I kept going back to squeezing lever+tap, over and over (few bubbles would come out, until none did come), and the braking felt more solid. I'm still running the original 15 year old nylon lines now.



I am going to go with two braided lines off the master, this gets rid of the splitter, plus pull the calipers and make sure clean, I was also told to rough up the rotors with 1000 grit,
I did look at new rotors but that was another 300 bucks which I am not ready to part with yet..

[/quote]


I am going to go with two braided lines off the master, this gets rid of the splitter, plus pull the calipers and make sure clean, I was also told to rough up the rotors with 1000 grit,
I did look at new rotors but that was another 300 bucks which I am not ready to part with yet..
[/quote]
Rough up the rotors?

[/quote]

I was also told to rough up the rotors with 1000 grit,
[/quote]


That is nonsense ! You want to rough up, not polish smooth the rotors.

Use #400 paper; seeing some scratches is just fine.

+1, the purpose of scuffing the rotors is to remove the glazing than can happen with "riding the brakes" or otherwise overheating them.
This glaze gets on the pads, too, so it's worth the time if you're doing the rotors to do the pads too.
Just put the sandpaper on a flat surface and rub the pads on it in a circular motion, will clean the glazing right off.

[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 29 January 2011 - 01:42 AM, said:

+1, the purpose of scuffing the rotors is to remove the glazing than can happen with "riding the brakes" or otherwise overheating them.
This glaze gets on the pads, too, so it's worth the time if you're doing the rotors to do the pads too.
Just put the sandpaper on a flat surface and rub the pads on it in a circular motion, will clean the glazing right off.



I am not polishing the rotors, maybe 1000 grit it to fine but roughing up, scuffing is the same thing.

For sure, I understand what you meant. :biggrin:

Even better than 400 grit is a Scotchbrite pad. The green scrubby thing you use on dishes. Don't use a knock-off brand, only the real Scotchbrite ones. They are also available from automotive paint stores in "scuff" grade, says it right on the package. They will be easier for this job than sandpaper and last longer, too. Plus, you can hit 'em with a shot of brake cleaner and use 'em again.

Know anyone with a glass bead blaster?

[image: Posted Image]

[image: Posted Image]

[image: Posted Image]

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 29 January 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Know anyone with a glass bead blaster?

[image: Posted Image]

[image: Posted Image]

[image: Posted Image]



I was looking at blasters at harbor freight this weekend.
Look good.....

[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 29 January 2011 - 09:35 AM, said:

Even better than 400 grit is a Scotchbrite pad. The green scrubby thing you use on dishes. Don't use a knock-off brand, only the real Scotchbrite ones. They are also available from automotive paint stores in "scuff" grade, says it right on the package. They will be easier for this job than sandpaper and last longer, too. Plus, you can hit 'em with a shot of brake cleaner and use 'em again.


That's really useful information..........in the kitchen.

On your bike, what you use to wash out your wife's kitchen pots is way, way too wimpy to do anything useful with steel brake rotors. Abrasive paper provides a better surface finish for pads to grip. Acetone or brake cleaner on rotors should be periodic, routine maintenance.

[image: View Post]squirrelman, on 01 February 2011 - 06:33 PM, said:

[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 29 January 2011 - 09:35 AM, said:

Even better than 400 grit is a Scotchbrite pad. The green scrubby thing you use on dishes. Don't use a knock-off brand, only the real Scotchbrite ones. They are also available from automotive paint stores in "scuff" grade, says it right on the package. They will be easier for this job than sandpaper and last longer, too. Plus, you can hit 'em with a shot of brake cleaner and use 'em again.


That's really useful information..........in the kitchen.

On your bike, what you use to wash out your wife's kitchen pots is way, way too wimpy to do anything useful with steel brake rotors. Abrasive paper provides a better surface finish for pads to grip. Acetone or brake cleaner on rotors should be periodic, routine maintenance.



Hey Squirrel- are you guys getting hit with this storm?
Lee

[image: View Post]squirrelman, on 01 February 2011 - 06:33 PM, said:

[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 29 January 2011 - 09:35 AM, said:

Even better than 400 grit is a Scotchbrite pad. The green scrubby thing you use on dishes. Don't use a knock-off brand, only the real Scotchbrite ones. They are also available from automotive paint stores in "scuff" grade, says it right on the package. They will be easier for this job than sandpaper and last longer, too. Plus, you can hit 'em with a shot of brake cleaner and use 'em again.


That's really useful information..........in the kitchen.

On your bike, what you use to wash out your wife's kitchen pots is way, way too wimpy to do anything useful with steel brake rotors. Abrasive paper provides a better surface finish for pads to grip. Acetone or brake cleaner on rotors should be periodic, routine maintenance.


Did you read the whole post? The 3M brand available at automotive paint stores is no joke. There's a Scuffer and a Stripper grade of abrasiveness. When I have had to clean the glazing off of rotors, the paper is a lot harder to use than the good 3M stuff...and the results were a lot better without the paper.