I've never replaced fork seals before. This is the left leg of the '86 VFR700, the one with the anti-dive on it.
1) Must I remove the anti-dive stuff? The set screw on the dial is so small I can't find anything to get it out. Can that just stay there?
2) the bolt on the bottom of the forks: is there some trick to this? I can't even begin to turn it, not even with heat. It's just rounding out the allen head of that bolt. This has to come out, right?
Any help is much appreciated...I can go no farther as it is.
[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 27 January 2011 - 08:07 AM, said:
I've never replaced fork seals before.
There's really nothing much to it. Search on youtube a bit and you'll find some videos demonstrationg the general process with some fantastic tip on how not to get the new seals damaged.
[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 27 January 2011 - 08:07 AM, said:
1) Must I remove the anti-dive stuff? The set screw on the dial is so small I can't find anything to get it out. Can that just stay there?
I have no clue as to how your shocks work, but I would believe that all that's just the valves and stuff. I would leave them alone.
[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 27 January 2011 - 08:07 AM, said:
2) the bolt on the bottom of the forks: is there some trick to this? I can't even begin to turn it, not even with heat. It's just rounding out the allen head of that bolt. This has to come out, right?
If you cant undo this bolt, then you will not be able to disassemble the shock. As you have already worn out the head, I would suggest going at it with a TORX key of the next bigger size. Force it into the hole with some good firm knocks from a hammer. usually, when i have issues with stuck bolts, a couple of knocks with my trusty hammer generally breaks the thread free. So hopefully, as your torx ket is "eat" a grip into the bolt, the knocks should also jar the thread and make it easier to undo.
The anti-dive stuff can stay in place and the shock disassembly is just like the other one.
You do have to remove the allen head screw or you are screwed. I hold the allen wrench firmly into screw and wack the wrench with a hammer to break it loose. If the head is stripped you have to get a hold of it with something else, It is resessed so I don't know how to do that.
I have cut a slot into a screw and used an impact screw driver to remove it, if you can cut a slot with a dremel or hack saw I don't know if you can get at it.
A desparate option drill screw head off, pull the shock apart and remove screw with vicegrips on the screw shank.
I didn't strip the recessed allen head, it was beginning to strip and I know enough to stop there. I only had an L-shaped allen and couldn't get good grip on the head.
I couldn't find a Craftsman socket in town so I had to settle for a Harbor Freight. I hope that works.....
Thanks for the advice!
Edited to add:
Success, fork is apart. It required some heat but the HF tool worked fine. Did not require removing the set screw or the little phillips head screw on the anti-dive, but I did remove the other side of the anti-dive with the valving, so that I could clean the mess out.
After 25 years, the oil is a silver silt.
I have no idea if the fork's in good shape or not, I've never seen a good one or a bad one to judge.
The tube is straight.
However, the other tube, the one that isn't leaking, is out by just a hair. Weird.
the allen head screw usually had lock tight applied to the threads!impact driver is the best diy tool.second best t handle allen key.and use two hands equal pressure.ive done it myself.good luck. :biggrin:
I'm not the first one that's been into these forks for sure. Not only are the fork caps a bit battered, but there's also parts missing. There is a seat on each end of the spring. On one fork, the top seat is missing. On the other fork, the bottom seat is missing.
The top seat is a glorified washer, I can make that. But the bottom seat has a protruding rounded part that fits into the spring, I assume to minimize contact with the tube's inner wall. Can't make that one.
How critical are they?
The bottom bushings are worn to where the copper is showing only on the inside. The tubes show a lot of scoring although the part you can see when installed is good. The bike may only have 5k miles on it, but I have a feeling it was wrecked so badly that the forks have been replaced....
The bushings aren't coated on both sides, only on the sides that see friction - that would be the outside of the tube bushing, and the inside diameter of the slider bushing.
[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 31 January 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:
The bottom bushings are worn to where the copper is showing only on the inside. The tubes show a lot of scoring although the part you can see when installed is good. The bike may only have 5k miles on it, but I have a feeling it was wrecked so badly that the forks have been replaced....
The scoring is not a good sign. Its the hidden part (which you say is scored) that actually does the work. You should also look into the shock body (the bit that the tube goes into). There should be no scoring here either.
With regards to the bushing....they tend to have a Teflon (or some other material) coating which is extremely slippery. As this coating wears off, the copper underneath begins to show. be sure that all your "bushings" have this coating. Its usually grey in color.
My camera once took a picture of a living plesiosaur, it's that old. Not in the budget for a newer one, so for now I have to hunt down a new set of batteries EVERY time I use the camera. I really want a different camera! Anyway I took a pic. The forks are back together, no way I 'm taking them back apart. If the seal leaks right away, I'll assume the forks are tweaked pretty bad, unless I did something wrong on the install.
I guess the pics didn't mean anything. Didn't think they would.
Found some similar OD washers and installed, should be riding tomorrow. Hope there is some improvement and that the new seals hold, this is the first time I've ever done them....
I'm not sure what I did wrong. I have one seal left, I'll try it again. I was very careful, I was sure I was doing it right...evidently I wasn't. :mad:
[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 02 February 2011 - 11:35 AM, said:
Well that didn't work.
Fork is leaking worse than before.
I'm not sure what I did wrong. I have one seal left, I'll try it again. I was very careful, I was sure I was doing it right...evidently I wasn't. :mad:
Here's a clue... if your tubes are scored, they are tearing the seals. Since you now have oil in there that you didn't have before, it appears to be leaking more.
Sorry to poop in your lunchbox, but it's hard to provide specific help sometimes if we can't see what's actually going on. Is there anyone you might be able to borrow a camera from? If not, pm me for my phone number and you can call me when you have your fork back apart. I'll try and help you that way.
[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 02 February 2011 - 11:35 AM, said:
Well that didn't work.
Fork is leaking worse than before.
I'm not sure what I did wrong. I have one seal left, I'll try it again. I was very careful, I was sure I was doing it right...evidently I wasn't. :mad:
Sounds like you need a rechroming job if the contact area are pitted or scored , STop and look for what messed up the seal, all surfaces have to be smoothe no scoring any place that contacts the seal, you can even damage a seal just sliding in onto the tube, use grease with edges taped or plastic bag
I got the camera-saurus to work (and had a long discussion with hubby regarding a more modern camera, with a shutter cover that doesn't stick closed).
Here is what I have now. I can feel the striations on my thumbnail but they are very, very shallow. The bushing came off in the lower leg. Is that right? I got it out, but don't quite know how to get it back in without it backing up on the tube.
[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 02 February 2011 - 04:06 PM, said:
I got the camera-saurus to work (and had a long discussion with hubby regarding a more modern camera, with a shutter cover that doesn't stick closed).
Here is what I have now. I can feel the striations on my thumbnail but they are very, very shallow. The bushing came off in the lower leg. Is that right? I got it out, but don't quite know how to get it back in without it backing up on the tube.
Bushings are totally shot, you tear the crap out of a slide with those, cant tell squat on you slider with flash reflection
[image: View Post]spud786, on 02 February 2011 - 05:05 PM, said:
Bushings are totally shot, you tear the crap out of a slide with those, cant tell squat on you slider with flash reflection
Spud, you're looking at the inside of the tube bushing there - that's fine for the backside. Question is, how does the teflon look now and after picking the tube bushing back out?
As far as the tube itself, you're going to need to polish that at minimum. You shouldn't be able to catch a fingernail on the scores/striations. Keep in mind that those marks cam from somewhere, and that somewhere is very likely to be the leading edges on the slider bushing. Of course, the combined effect of the crappy oil condition you had, did not help.
You can chance using the bushings if you're strapped and/or don't want to replace, but you need to dress that tube. Start with a quality 600 grit wet sandpaper, sand it wet, and work up to 1000 then 1500, then polish with a metal polish paste like Simichrome. It's going to take you a little while, even if you have a power tool to spin the tube for you. It is worth it though, and much cheaper than new or used. :fing02:
I already got some SOS pads on that tube, didn't make much difference but now that I know I can go to 600 grit, that will make a big difference.
Looks like a bushing will be cheaper than used tubes, if it's still available.
Good, I got a better idea now...
Yes that bushing belongs on the tube, it came out with the tube the first time but this time it stayed in the leg part...I'll check it out but likely would prefer to replace if I can get the parts....
Gottcha zeb on the back side, im an upside down guy, normally the bushing that sits there is coated on the inside, and the tube slides through it , on upside down type of forks.
[image: View Post]spud786, on 02 February 2011 - 06:13 PM, said:
Gottcha zeb on the back side, im an upside down guy, normally the bushing that sits there is coated on the inside, and the tube slides through it , on upside down type of forks.
Same setup in the USD forks. You have to look closely at the pic to see that both bushings are there. You're looking at the teflon of the slider bushing & the backside of the tube bushing.
The bushing that goes in the large tube section and is fixed to it, has the coating on the inside cause the slider slides through it in and out. Thats what i thought i was looking at first, but its actually the slider bushing which fell off and not mounted to the slider..
The terminology is throwing me: What's the bottom leg part, the slider? What's the chrome part, the tube? Just making sure I know what I'm reading....
So I still don't understand this--the slider bushing is so sloppy that it stayed in the bottom leg part instead of staying on the tube? And this means....what?
1) Do I sand down the edges of this bushing to they don't rub on the chrome part? The outside part is all teflon still. Am I looking for copper on the outside?
2) How do I get the bushing back in? It just slides back up on the tube and will not sit on the place where it belongs.
And, I really appreciate the info, I'm completely lost in this new thing...
[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 03 February 2011 - 06:27 AM, said:
The terminology is throwing me: What's the bottom leg part, the slider? YES What's the chrome part, the tube? YES Just making sure I know what I'm reading....
So I still don't understand this--the slider bushing is so sloppy that it stayed in the bottom leg part instead of staying on the tube? And this means....what?
1) Do I sand down the edges of this bushing to they don't rub on the chrome part? The outside part is all teflon still. Am I looking for copper on the outside?
2) How do I get the bushing back in? It just slides back up on the tube and will not sit on the place where it belongs.
And, I really appreciate the info, I'm completely lost in this new thing...
Actually, your slider bushing(now that you know which is which) is so gummed up with old fork gunk and/or hasn't been removed in so long, that instead of allowing the tube bushing to pull it out when you yanked the tube, it actually caused the tube bushing to come off the tube and stay behind.
1. NO, don't sand on the bushing. It's supposed to rub, that's why it's there. If the teflon is worn off from all that rubbing, then you need new ones.
2. Best bet is to buy new - you can try to squeeze it smaller again so that it stays in the groove, but you are taking the chance of bending it out of round which will cause even more wear and decreased fork performance. The tube bushing should snap snugly onto the tube. If it doesn't, fiddle with it a bit. If you find you have to fiddle a lot, get a new one. And, if you get one new, you may as well do them all...
Sorry Jenn, but sometimes you have to "pay to play". Any luck selling your other bike yet?
Nobody is balking at spending a few bucks here. It's been 25 years of neglect and at least one crash, I expect to have to replace some parts. I just don't know what I need yet (but I know better than to throw the parts cannon at it until I'm educated). :biggrin:
You said the scoring on the tube was likely caused by the leading edge of that bushing. That's why I'm asking if I should smooth it down.
It's like $10 for a new tube bushing, but I don't even know what the slider bushing looks like, (which part it is that's sitting on the bench outside), so I don't know if I need it or not...and I don't know what part number it is if I do.
One more question: the other tube shows scoring as well but has zero leaking. I am not going to touch it until it DOES leak...but what is the likelihood that it will follow suit? My Kawi has 60k miles on the same fork seals, I just change the oil every 18 months or so....
so....do I need to buy a set of bushings? Or do I just buy the tube bushing? Anything else on the shopping list?
I have no clue what to do next....I appreciate folks who have done this before speaking up. There's nobody I can ask for help nearby, so I'm kinda dependent on the forum.
Is this impossible to answer? With all gratitude, with utmost respect and consideration for the time and effort required for an educated response...really?
It's a legitimate question from an inexperienced but motivated home wrench...
While waiting for parts to arrive from Honda, Hubby and I threw an oyster roast party this weekend and invited a bunch of riding buddies. One of them has rebuilt forks before and quickly found a MISSING BUSHING on the leaking fork which explains the abrasion to the tube and internal parts and the immediate failure of the new seal. All this before consuming massive quantities of oysters and spicy chili around the fire outside.
This is now a $10 fix and I finally know what was wrong.
Somebody really, really fu*ked up this motorcycle years ago....
coffeebrake.......here is a blowup of the VF500F forks, I am taking the liberty to assume that they are the same configuration as your forks, check with your friend that has the experience rebuilding.
It is very similar to the blowup in my Honda shop manual for the bike...funny, Ron Ayers website doesn't list the parts for the 700F but if I get the part number from Honda, Ayers has it for the '88 CBR600 that shares the same forks...for a lot lower price than anywhere else local.
I'm really happy just to know what was wrong and anxiously waiting on the missing part so I can get it together. I already polished out the scored tube as well as I could...and I'm wondering if the same piece is missing from the other tube, even though it's not leaking...
I can't believe the forks were re-assembled with the tube bushing completely missing.
Having never done work on forks before, I had no idea what was wrong.
Rode the snot out of it yesterday all over town, no leaks, no seeping, and a much better ride. Boy am I happy to get back on that bike....thanks again.
[image: View Post]coffeebrake, on 23 February 2011 - 06:22 AM, said:
Done, thanks for all the links and replies.
I can't believe the forks were re-assembled with the tube bushing completely missing.
Having never done work on forks before, I had no idea what was wrong.
Rode the snot out of it yesterday all over town, no leaks, no seeping, and a much better ride. Boy am I happy to get back on that bike....thanks again.
Awesome feeling isn't it! To know things are back together, and done right! It always is for me! :fing02:
End of thread · 32 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 4 Jun 2011