It could all just be in my head, but it seems like I'm hitting neutral instead of 2nd gear a lot more frequently in the last few months. I've always had it happen from time to time on several bikes and figured it was just me being too lazy on the shift (which it could possibly still be). However, the frequency that this happens is really starting to increase. My concern is that something is wrong with the bike, and that I may have caused it because I recently started playing around with clutchless upshifts. I don't do them all the time and usually only do them for the 2-3 and higher shifts.
Anything possibly wrong, or am I just 'pussy-footing' it too much?
If the 1st suggestion (free - a very good price) or the 2nd (just good maintenance) don't help, maybe do some research on a shift kit and see if people that have used one report to have helped a problem like yours.
All of these answers are real good....... Moving shifter and pre-loading gets my vote
I'm just trying to think what might have changed(OP) to start this, and one thing comes to mind... Did you start wearing a different boot with a lower toe-box?
I've had my '02 for almost 9 years, and I can tell you without any hesitation that this gearbox wants a good positive shift action from 1st to 2nd. If you get ham fisted, it will happily drop out back to neutral.
Hell, I even have the complete Factory Pro Shifter Kit fitted and I *still* get missed shifts occasionally! Basically you really need to be positive with that shift.
+1 on the suggestions above, and Kaldek's first paragraph. I've experienced the missed shift several times, and it's usually due to laziness on my part. It usually happens when accelerating hard and trying to quickly shift from 1st to 2nd. :sad:
Nothing like bracing for continued hard running then having your body move slightly forward from loss of the bike's momentum, all while hearing the engine race because you're now revving it hard in neutral. :laugh:
[image: View Post]TimC, on 06 February 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:
Nothing like bracing for continued hard running then having your body move slightly forward from loss of the bike's momentum, all while hearing the engine race because you're now revving it hard in neutral. :laugh:
Even worse is the noises and clunks involved with the actual shift to 2nd. At best, it's a solid thunk. at worst, there all sorts of grinding and fun noise. just downright painful.
Monk, there's no recent changes. I've been using the same boots for a few years now. The only time I've adjusted the shifter is when I installed the BLS lowering blocks, which was almost 2 years ago. The only real recent changes have been the experimentation with clutchless upshifts as well as a lot more aggressive riding in general. We've moved, so now the bike sees a lot of city riding and weekend canyon carving versus its typical miles upon miles of freeway commuting.
I'll try adjusting the shifter down a click and see if that helps.
Had same problem, din oil would get black in 1k mi. Dealer told me its cause I ride in stop & go traffic.
Switched to synthetic, Honda, then Bel Ray, Would go 2k before acting up again. Went back to get more
BelRay and thay were out. So I bought FUCHS Silkolene Pro 4 10w-40w. Expensive!!! Well, it shifts like it
was new again. Could not believe it. Thump and grinding is also gone. I won't go back. Hope this works for
you.
Yes its a good idea to set up the lever to a postion that is natural for your shifting action, its not one size fits all but it is adjustable. And if that doesnt help perhaps some road grime or somthing has caused the detent arm wheel to freeze up as it follows the detents on the shift star, thats what the shift kit does it replaces the detent arm and wheel with a new stronger spring and a wheel thats got a bearing instead of a pressed on bushing on the wheel. I suppose a shot of oil on the bushing might free it up, wd40?
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 07 February 2011 - 07:06 AM, said:
Yes its a good idea to set up the lever to a postion that is natural for your shifting action, its not one size fits all but it is adjustable. And if that doesnt help perhaps some road grime or somthing has caused the detent arm wheel to freeze up as it follows the detents on the shift star, thats what the shift kit does it replaces the detent arm and wheel with a new stronger spring and a wheel thats got a bearing instead of a pressed on bushing on the wheel. I suppose a shot of oil on the bushing might free it up, wd40?
...but HS...the shift wheel & star are sealed, enclosed under the "shifter cover", highly unlikely its contaminated. i would, however, for piece of mind, encourage OP to give a looksee in there for worn, loose parts...and IF you're going that far, just install the shift kit. A worthwhile investment, IMHO. Also, the quality oil recommendation is a sound one. IF this IS a mechanical problem, you want to nip it in the bud before shift drum/fork collateral damage occurs.
Noticed something this morning that may explain a bit of it. Looking at my riding boots, I clearly shift with the ends of my toes. The boots are wearing down there quite a good bit. However, the boot has a rubber pad portion on the top of the boot but further back (about mid-foot). I'm guessing that's where A* (it's the SMX-4) would like you to put the lever when shifting. I made a conscious effort to slip my foot just that little bit farther under the shifter and, so far, no missed shifts.
To answer the questions regarding oil, the bike is maybe 2K miles into a new batch (if that) and is currently running whatever Honda's OEM 10W-40 oil is.
[image: View Post]whiteboyslo, on 07 February 2011 - 10:38 AM, said:
Noticed something this morning that may explain a bit of it. Looking at my riding boots, I clearly shift with the ends of my toes. The boots are wearing down there quite a good bit. However, the boot has a rubber pad portion on the top of the boot but further back (about mid-foot). I'm guessing that's where A* (it's the SMX-4) would like you to put the lever when shifting. I made a conscious effort to slip my foot just that little bit farther under the shifter and, so far, no missed shifts.
To answer the questions regarding oil, the bike is maybe 2K miles into a new batch (if that) and is currently running whatever Honda's OEM 10W-40 oil is.
Mike
That sounds about right, the shift patch on most boots are placed where the big toe meets the foot..... Putting more boot under it would help a lot.... And you did say in your OP that you had adjusted the shifter for the lowering blocks..... Just a thought .... After you've tried using more boot, it may call for re-adjustment of the shifter, depending on how it feels.... You probably know all this, but that's why we're here. Injoy.
[image: View Post]whiteboyslo, on 06 February 2011 - 11:06 PM, said:
[image: View Post]TimC, on 06 February 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:
Nothing like bracing for continued hard running then having your body move slightly forward from loss of the bike's momentum, all while hearing the engine race because you're now revving it hard in neutral. :laugh:
Even worse is the noises and clunks involved with the actual shift to 2nd. At best, it's a solid thunk. at worst, there all sorts of grinding and fun noise. just downright painful.
Monk, there's no recent changes. I've been using the same boots for a few years now. The only time I've adjusted the shifter is when I installed the BLS lowering blocks, which was almost 2 years ago. The only real recent changes have been the experimentation with clutchless upshifts as well as a lot more aggressive riding in general. We've moved, so now the bike sees a lot of city riding and weekend canyon carving versus its typical miles upon miles of freeway commuting.
I'll try adjusting the shifter down a click and see if that helps.
Mike
gotta tell ya, this post threw me way off the mark. shift technique? glad to hear solution is that simple.
[image: View Post]whiteboyslo, on 06 February 2011 - 11:06 PM, said:
Even worse is the noises and clunks involved with the actual shift to 2nd. At best, it's a solid thunk. at worst, there all sorts of grinding and fun noise. just downright painful.
You mean when you get it into 2nd after losing the shift to Neutral? Hmm, that has nothing to do with missing the 1-2 shift, you're just not matching revs as you would when doing a clean rapid shift. Try shifting 1-2 a second or two after pulling the clutch in (with revs at idle), it'll clunk like crazy. Most of us have enough mechanical sympathy to feel terrible when this happens, but it can be avoided with a bit of throttle before shifting N to 2nd when the 1-2 didn't work.
[image: View Post]Bruckner, on 07 February 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:
[image: View Post]whiteboyslo, on 06 February 2011 - 11:06 PM, said:
Even worse is the noises and clunks involved with the actual shift to 2nd. At best, it's a solid thunk. at worst, there all sorts of grinding and fun noise. just downright painful.
You mean when you get it into 2nd after losing the shift to Neutral? Hmm, that has nothing to do with missing the 1-2 shift, you're just not matching revs as you would when doing a clean rapid shift. Try shifting 1-2 a second or two after pulling the clutch in (with revs at idle), it'll clunk like crazy. Most of us have enough mechanical sympathy to feel terrible when this happens, but it can be avoided with a bit of throttle before shifting N to 2nd when the 1-2 didn't work.
Regards,
Bruckner
He's right. Whenever I miss a shift my tendency is to close the throttle and then try to shift with the RPM's way too low! That's what causes this. However, I'm not 100% convinced there is nothing that can be improved mechanically. My old VFR seemed to miss shifts a lot more than my new one.
Even worse is the noises and clunks involved with the actual shift to 2nd. At best, it's a solid thunk. at worst, there all sorts of grinding and fun noise. just downright painful.
I'm pretty sure every bike I've had I'd occasionally get a false neutral and zing! the engine. :goofy:
But loud noises aren't right. The thing should shift smooth like slicing like butter. Or at least margarine. :biggrin:
The one bike I had that made a lot of noise, and eventually second gear did not work, cost a bundle to fix.
Replaced a couple gears, shift forks, shift drum, yadda. :mellow:
Thanks all for the replies. I'll definitely have to remember to give it a little juice when shifting into 2nd from neutral (after missing the shift). Most of the time it's just a solid CLUNK. Not the end of the world, but far from silky smooth. I think a lot of it just comes from all the momentum lost combined with just feeling like a clutz. The grinding is probably from the few times I try to quickly pop into 2nd again and let out the clutch prematurely. Usually requires me to stop (mentally), think about what I'm doing, and try again.
Bike definitely feels a lot better just by making that conscious effort to slide my foot in that much farther. I guess laziness gets the best of us sometimes.
This is not directed to you, this is what I think, and it's for anyone that wants to give it a try..... Works for me..... Points to remember..... The less time and distance that the clutch is pulled, the less time the rpm and drive train will have to get screwed up...... Give it a burp when down shifting, not up shifting...... Pre-load the clutch lever and shifter at the same time.... once the pressure is there, then do a positive shift, while doing a very slight and quick clutch pull....... Do not pull the clutch more than a fraction of distance past where ever you had it while under pre-load... That means you don't need to pull it all the way to the grip, or anywhere close......
Trying for 1st gear while sitting still in neutral requires playing with the clutch's pre-load zone..... You don't have to bugger with the throttle.......
This is for anyone that wants to know.... Not pointing fingers........ I'm not a knee dragger but I'm a good * "gear-jammer"(that's suppose to be funny). :beer:
End of thread · 26 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 26 Feb 2011