Hi all,
Yesterday I had my first motorbike 'lesson' here in the Netherlands in order to convert my Australian license to a local one. I must admit it was great to get back on a bike again after almost a year, and although I didn't particularly like the instructor much, it didn't detract too much from the enjoyment :biggrin: .
Anyway, there were a number of things that are a bit different here which I am going to have to get used to, but for me the biggest one was which foot to put down when you come to stop.
In Australia (at least in Canberra where I got my bike license) we were instructed that it MUST be the left foot on the ground when stopped and the right foot on the rear brake (and the bike in first gear). This makes sense to me because:
- the bike is in gear ready for a quick take off if needed (ie: imminent rear ender).
- it frees your right hand, giving it a bit of a rest and allows you to quickly adjust visor, kit, etc as needed.
- particularly in slow moving traffic, it allows you to immediately use the clutch/rear brake for slow speed control as you take off again.
However, halfway through yesterday's lesson, I was told that I was doing it wrong and that I needed to put the right foot down. The explanation given was that the first thing you will do when you take off will be to change gear. Now, I wasn't too sure of this because:
- in order to keep the brake on you now need to use the front brake lever, and if you stop with the bike in first (as instructed in Australia) you then have both hands fully utilised.
- secondly, (for me at least anyway) by the time I have the bike with enough speed to change gear I will have both feet on the pegs anyway (not sure I'd want to be changing gear with only one foot on the pegs either).
Now, it could simply be that the reason for having the right foot down was lost in translation, and I certainly wouldn't call myself a very experienced rider so I could be missing something completely obvious, but I'm curious what others think. I don't want to start any religious wars or anything, but I'm also interested what the recommendation/'requirement' is in other places.
I did a quick search of the forums but couldn't find anything, so apologies if this issue has been raised before.
It is going to interesting 'unlearning' seven years of ingrained habit, but if I need to do it to keep riding after June when my international license is no longer valid, then I'll have to. If someone can put forward a reasonable arguement for the right foot down (or at least explain where my reasoning is wrong) then it might make it a bit easier :biggrin: .
Cheers,
Michael.
Well things have changed when I learned riding in the Netherlands...... Pay 5 guilders to the police for a provisional licence and learn it yourself and show up for a short ride to show skillz or lack thereof... :laughing6-hehe:
Found a refence to the exam part where you have to do special exercises. The instruction (but is it law?) is to put your right foot down when coming to an -emergency- stop. Thinking is that should you fail to get your foot down properly to put your right foot down, you fall to the right and thus away to the right, away from traffic...
When riding off, you are not allowed to have both feet on the ground. the advise is to keep you left foot down when you are instructed to drive off to the left, right foot down if instructed to the right. Reason being that that way the bike is slighty tilted to the direction you want to go, making it easier to go that way..
http://www.leerwiki...._motorrijbewijs
I'll dig some more..........
I never think which foot to put down,...
for me i just use my right foot, unless its a long stop light then i just shift into N and put both my feet down to get in a short rest off my azz. either way its more of preference in america then anything else
http://www.motorrijs...om/?uid=4&pid=2
look for Wegrijden uit parkeervak linksom en rechtsom(keuze oefening)
It says you yourself decice which foot you keep down before riding off...
Having thought of it, I usually put my right foot down, but not because someone told me.....
I'm in the Dutchy frame of mind. I put the foot down that is going to help me better on the stop, or take off, with a left turn start, left foot down, etc.
It's always good to change, just in case you get use to only one way then need to use the other foot, it's better to have more than one choice that's comfortable.
I learned you put the left foot down from the MSF course in the US. Like you were instructed so was I that the right foot would be on the rear brake and the bike in first gear for the same reasons you listed. Sounds to me that you have an instructor with questionable riding experience.
Your reasoning seems dead on to me. Even a cruiser doesn't have to shift until 6K+ rpms and by then I would hope both feet would be on the bike unless there is some new form of "fuel efficiency" shifting technique they are trying to teach. :goofy:
I say do what you need to to pass the course and then go back to doing it the "right" way by putting your left foot down. Arguing with instructors with things like "common sense" usually ends up with you failing some how. :rolleyes:
But there is no golden rule except make sure you put a foot down before you fall down. :biggrin:
Well, if it's an international poll you're after, Posted Image I'll add that I was taught left foot down, bike in first, right foot on the brake at lights when I took a beginner rider training course in British Columbia in the mid-'80s. The main reason, I think, was that it's easier taking off on a hill if you have a little rear brake applied.
I put the left foot down. To me it makes the most sense since if you're using the rear brake you right foot is busy. Even though I barely use my rear brakes (other than the linked effect of my '06) I alway keep my foot 'at the ready', in case I come up on a slimy or greasy patch at the stop sign or light and have to go with more rear bias. Plus it's a habit from my older brakeless wonder drums all around bike days. You needed everything working for you back then. I don't miss those brakes...The cheap gas was nice though...
Brian
I was taught to put down whatever foot you prefer, even both if you wanted to. Only when stopped on an incline you were expected to have your left foot down and the right on the brake pedal. Does the instructer expect you to have the bike in neutral when stopped at e.g. a trafic light?
Here you can find info and stats on how well the riding school performs. It shows the percentage of riders that pass their first or second exam.
Sounds like there's the right way, the wrong way and the instructor's way. . . . :dry: and he's going to require you to go along to get the certification. The only time I use one vs the other is when I'm at a stop on a steep hill. I get to 1st gear before I stop, then I use the rear brake to keep me in place (so in that case I put my left foot down). Then I don't have to try to manipulate both the front brake and the throttle to get going. Other than that it's dealer's choice.
I don't mind doing both sides as I seem to be ambidextrous when I'm on my bikes.....but I suspect it would be better to put down the right foot at most stops so you can quickly operate the shift lever if you happen to be in the wrong gear when the traffic starts moving forward or the light turns green. But as other people have already noted, there are certain conditions when you need to put the left foot down instead, like when you need a rear brake's help to hold the bike on a steep incline while stopped..
Beck
95 VFR
I always use the rear brake, even with mine being linked. That's the way I was taught by the MSF back in the 80's and what I've been doing ever since. So that means I put my left foot down. If I'm at a long stop, like a traffic light, I'll even put both feet down and stretch. It seems weird to me to put only the right foot down.
Left foot down, right foot on the brake, gives the right hand a nice break and keeps your brake light activated for those behind you to see.
[image: View Post]The mailman, on 25 March 2011 - 08:30 PM, said:
Left foot down, right foot on the brake, gives the right hand a nice break and keeps your brake light activated for those behind you to see.
+1 .... right foot on rear brake as the brake light should always be illuminated when stopped in traffic, ...... with the bike in 1st gear ready to move off. Thats what we teach here in rider training.
I just checked the Metropolitan Police Department Motorcycle Operation manual and all it says is to avoid slippery spots when you put a foot down. Thats funny, I really thought they would have mentioned the part about leaving the bike in gear and covering the brake. Go fig..........
As an ex bike instructor in Australia left foot down is the recomendation.
additional to reasons provided by others:
right foot on brake allows braking til dead stop particularly is emergency.
works when crawling along in slow stop start traffic when avoiding using front brake.
allows "loading" the bike up against the throttle for tight maneuvering.
easier take off on up hill starts.
different topic top illustration is simplistic. While countersteering is only true steering method above 20kph contributory steering method of body lean assists.
"Lean in", (illustration with blue tick)
"Lean with" (same as bike angle)
"Lean out" (as per illustration with red cross)
This video should highlight the benefit of lean out in slow speed manuevering. centre of gravity is more centralised so less lateral pressure on tyres.
Oh great! Now I am sitting here trying to figure which foot I should use instead of just doing it. Hmmmm, right? left? both? What a conundrum! :pissed: Actually makes me glad I have to do a corporate board of directors meeting in a little while so I can be distracted and not think on this all day. :laughing6-hehe:
I try to get atleast one foot down whenever I stop
What's this "stopping" thing you guys speak of? Don't you all just leave and return to your garage in a ball of fire? :wheel:
:goofy:
When I was in the 80 hour motor school it was always left foot down, right foot on brake with the motor in gear. The thing that caught my attention is it is very hard to get a Harley into Neutral while it is in motion & you have to use a lot of rear brake when coming to a stop due to the crazy amount of front end dive.
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 26 March 2011 - 07:57 AM, said:
What's this "stopping" thing you guys speak of? Don't you all just leave and return to your garage in a ball of fire? :wheel
:goofy:
What's with the goofy face............we know you're serious............I've seen the foam padded back wall of your garage that you land in :laughing6-hehe:
I almost always put my left foot down.........mostly for reasons others have said.........and it just seems more natural. About the only time I put my right
foot down is when my left foot is working the kickstand.
[image: View Post]bmv, on 25 March 2011 - 09:06 PM, said:
[image: View Post]The mailman, on 25 March 2011 - 08:30 PM, said:
Left foot down, right foot on the brake, gives the right hand a nice break and keeps your brake light activated for those behind you to see.
+1 .... right foot on rear brake as the brake light should always be illuminated when stopped in traffic, ...... with the bike in 1st gear ready to move off. Thats what we teach here in rider training.
I was told the same. Left foot down, right foot on the rear brake to keep the brake light on so traffic coming up behind you can see you better.
I tend to stop and then track stand for a second until I am sure I am not going to move again. I think I just drop both feet at the same time.
It depends on the situation (e.g. whether you stop on a hill or not). When I pull up to a light, I put the right foot down and stay in gear, watching what's going on behind me (and I've had to make emergency moves on several occasions over nearly 30 years of riding). Once a couple of cars come to stop behind me, I'll shift to neutral and put both feet down, resting both hands unless I'm on a hill and then I'll keep the right foot on the brake. When the light is about to go green, I put it in gear and get ready to go, right foot down. I think situational awareness and adaptability is more important than remembering a rigid rule about which foot should be on the ground.
Left foot down, right on the brake - allows for hill starts, keeps brakelight lit, allows for a quick stop if something interrupts your start (without reaching for front brake- which is disastrous at low speeds).
Thanks for the advice, guys. Much appreciated (although I'm not sure I'll try Seb's suggestion until after I get the local license :biggrin: ). I think the general consensus is that the left foot is the preference for most, but there are good reasons why you'd put the right down at times. I think I'll perservere with the right foot down practice so that when those times do happen I won't feel so wrong footed.
Cheers,
Michael.
[image: View Post]Dutchy, on 25 March 2011 - 04:06 PM, said:
Well things have changed when I learned riding in the Netherlands...... Pay 5 guilders to the police for a provisional licence and learn it yourself and show up for a short ride to show skillz or lack thereof... :laughing6-hehe:
Found a refence to the exam part where you have to do special exercises. The instruction (but is it law?) is to put your right foot down when coming to an -emergency- stop. Thinking is that should you fail to get your foot down properly to put your right foot down, you fall to the right and thus away to the right, away from traffic...
When riding off, you are not allowed to have both feet on the ground. the advise is to keep you left foot down when you are instructed to drive off to the left, right foot down if instructed to the right. Reason being that that way the bike is slighty tilted to the direction you want to go, making it easier to go that way..
http://www.leerwiki...._motorrijbewijs
:+1: Well done! Absolutely true! :fing02:
The "which foot" question depends pretty much on whether or not you are supposed to stop in gear or in neutral. If in gear (like in the USA), then you have no need to keep the left foot ready to shift, and it makes more sense to have the right foot on the brake. In the UK, the instruction seems to be the same as in the Netherlands, judging from all the loud "clunking" you hear from various bikes when the lights get ready to go green...
Fortunately, when I took my UK m/c test, the examiner actually gave me a lot of leeway, due to my 15 years of international riding experience at the time. Technically, I failed the U-turn test, as I'd brain-farted and ran out of room--which required me to complete the turn whilst jumping the kerb and standing on the pegs! He probably figured that if I could do that on a heavy bike like my VFR FP, I was probably skilled enough...
But back to the NL, a friend of mine based in the Hague wants to get his first bike license. He is on a diplomatic passport, so local licensing laws do not apply (lucky barsteward!). His plan is to take his m/c test back in the 'States (where he has a driver's license) and just use that in Europe as long as he wants. In addition, his bike will have a CD-plate (lucky barsteward!), so no real chance of ever having to pay a parking or speeding fine. (Yes, I have asked him about available jobs...)
The only problems are that (a) he doesn't know how to ride AT ALL and (b) he doesn't have access to a bike in California to use for the test. So, he needs to take an MSF course. Does anyone know if completing an MSF course in CA actually gets you the license these days? It didn't when I were a lad...
Cheers,
[image: View Post]muffer, on 26 March 2011 - 06:45 AM, said:
I try to get atleast one foot down whenever I stop
+1
This reminds me of the time I got one of my shoelaces wrapped around the gear shifter! Took 10 years of my life!
Guess I am a left foot down person. Comes natural, works for me and makes sense. Tried the right foot once.......almost fell over.
End of thread · 30 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 20 Jul 2012