HID & LED upgrade '83 VF750F

Hi all,

New member posting here for the first time....

I proudly own a 1983 VF750F that I have been thinking about updating the headlamp to a HID or similar type system.

Would also like to hear about LED lights on the brake & turn indicators

Any information is appreciated

Thanks

I had reservations about running an HID on my bike with a single light. I do a fair bit of riding at night and some of it as part of long trips. I didn't want to have a single point of failure for my headlight. I ended up with a JW Speaker LED light that I mostly like. There is another company that makes some LED headlights as well. My only two reservations about the light are the price (which will hopefully come down) and that the high beam doesn't point up as high as the H4 housing I had before, so flicking on the high beam to see through a corner at night doesn't work nearly as well. The actually distance it will reach down the road is actually further though if the bike is level. I'm not sure how this compares to HID conversions in general, but, it's worth looking into. It does make the bike a lot more noticable from the front though.

As for the other indicators, I know that LED's will usually blink faster because your bike can't tell the bulb is there so it thinks it burned out. Also, there seems to be a decent difference in actual light output between a cheap and well made LED, though, I don't have enough experience to tell you which are which.

Good luck, and have fun.

-Chris

I put an HID headlight on both my old VF500 and my current VFR750. I'll never ride a bike without one....the light is nice and noticeable during the day or the night.

I also replaced the signal and brake bulbs on my VF500 with LEDs. They look great at night, but they are a bit too dim when in direct sunlight.

Before the usual HID love-fest gets fully under way, I should point out that HID conversion kits are a poor substitute for actual upgraded lighting. There is physically no way to appropriately align the HID capsule's "hot spot" with the precise optics of an older headlight, and assuming yours is of the smooth reflector/fluted lens variety (i.e., the way most Honda headlamps were designed pre-VFR800), the result will almost certainly be a horrible spread of a huge amount of unfocused light. You will probably be able to see further ahead than with the OEM bulb, but this will be at the expense of your night vision and of causing (a similarly huge amount) of glare for every other road user. That, of course, is why HID conversion kits are illegal in most of the civilised world. That said, many people do fit such kits and enforcement is rare.

IMHO, you would be better off upgrading to one of the high-performance H4s (though these will also affect your night vision to a certain extent).

The good news is that most of the HID conversion kits are "plug-n-play", which means that so long as you keep a spare H4 bulb handy, you can always swap back if the HID crap fails. :biggrin:

Ciao,

JZH is correct in mentioning proper headlight aiming...as it is important with any headlights but especially so with an HID kit.

Though I will disagree with the statements that you may be able to see further with an OEM bulb or be better off with a high quality H4 bulb.

A well made, properly aimed HID kit will out perform any halogen bulb in a stock housing. Yes, the light will spread horribly and not be very focused but the light will still go further and better illuminate a halogen replacement.

Also the HID light will be noticeable even on a bright sunny day....making the bike more noticeable to other motorists.

Hey HWP, before you start blaming the bulbs for poor lighting check the stock housing/reflector. I replaced the bulb in mine and still had not so great output. I looked inside the glass housing on my '84 VF750F and could see the vapor deposited nickel coating or whatever it is on the reflector has corroded over the years to the point that it was not reflective in areas. I simply replaced the whole lamp with a sealed beam lamp and aimed it to stock setting and have a nice wide beam with a crisp cut-off. I am really happy that just the lamp made that much difference.

Might save you some wiring time and money.

As for LED brake and indicator lights, I am running a set for the rear. Of course, it will almost double the frequency with which all the signal lights will flash, due to insignificant draw on the capacitors. So I added some resistors for each side. The thing to be aware of is the heat dissipated by the incandescent bulbs will now be dissipated by the resistors...and they will heat up. The ceramic housing of the resistor is ok if signal is on for a short while, but if on for a long while the heat may be a issue. You will need to monitor the heat build-up for your specific set-up. Also, since LED are very sensitive to voltage, they will be significantly dimmer with the bike off, so test the lights with the bike running (almost couldn't see mine on in the daytime, with bike not running).

Hope this helps with your lighting needs.

And welcome to VFRD!

[image: View Post]slowbird, on 28 March 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

JZH is correct in mentioning proper headlight aiming...as it is important with any headlights but especially so with an HID kit.
I don't think I mentioned aiming, mainly because adjusting the aim on an HID kit-converted headlamp is essentially a no-win proposition. Due to the plasma arc being in a different location (and it's also having a different shape and size) than an H4's halogen filament when mounted within a halogen reflector headlamp housing, in order to reduce the (3x as bright as halogen) glare that would otherwise be spiking above the low-beam cut-off, the headlamp unit must be aimed downward such that an even greater amount of the (3x as bright as halogen) light is reflected off of the road surface immediately in front of the bike. The choice is, therefore, between blinding other drivers or blinding yourself.

[image: View Post]slowbird, on 28 March 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

Though I will disagree with the statements that you may be able to see further with an OEM bulb or be better off with a high quality H4 bulb.
No, I agreed that you can see further with an HID conversion kit, but I noted that there are serious drawbacks as well. Although I have HID conversion kits on two of my bikes, and initially shared the HID conversion kit enthusiasm, I eventually realised that there are trade-offs beyond the expense (which has fallen dramatically since I purchased my kits). To me, those trade-offs are not worth it, which has lead me to conclude that I would be better off with one of the newer-type, high-performance H4s (Osram SilverStars, etc.) or with a true xenon retrofit using OEM automotive components (which I have started to develop, but, sadly, not yet finished)...

[image: View Post]slowbird, on 28 March 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

A well made, properly aimed HID kit will out perform any halogen bulb in a stock housing. Yes, the light will spread horribly and not be very focused but the light will still go further and better illuminate a halogen replacement.
You don't sell these things, by any chance? :biggrin:

As virtually all of the HID conversion kits on the market are pumped out of factories in Asia, sold in Western countries in violation of applicable laws and counterfeit components are epidemic, it is hard to tell whether one is "well made" or not, even once you have it in your hands. One popular HID kit distributor I'm aware of (www.vvme.com) hilariously states "So be confident with our products. We printed "MADE IN JAPAN" on our HID Kits", despite being located in China... :laughing6-hehe:

HID conversion kits definitely pump out the light, though. Lots where you want it--and lots where you don't.

[image: View Post]slowbird, on 28 March 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

Also the HID light will be noticeable even on a bright sunny day....making the bike more noticeable to other motorists.
Agreed. I just wouldn't recommend using it at night...

Ciao,

Thanks for the input & feedback, it was just what I was looking for in all honesty!

Weighing pro's & con's that have been brought forth, I'll be better able to make a more informed decission on the choice to upgrade or not...

Thanks again!

[image: View Post]slowbird, on 28 March 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

Also the HID light will be noticeable even on a bright sunny day....making the bike more noticeable to other motorists.


If by noticeable, you mean "blinding oncoming traffic", then yes, even on a bright sunny day, a drop in HID kit will be more noticeable then staring at the sun...


I agree with JZH on the topic concerning drop in HID kits in standard Halogen housing. Most halogen housings were not designed with HID lighting in mind. The light pattern from the point of origin of the light source, are completely different, hence why using HID drop in kits in a halogen housing normally results in too much glare for oncoming traffic.

[image: View Post]DownAndOutNYC, on 29 March 2011 - 12:48 PM, said:

If by noticeable, you mean "blinding oncoming traffic", then yes, even on a bright sunny day, a drop in HID kit will be more noticeable then staring at the sun...


Yes....if it's not aimed properly. Even an HID headlight that is aimed down to the ground directly infront of the bike will be an intense light when looked at but will not be shining in the eyes of oncoming traffic.

If the headlight is aimed upwards then yea....it's a blinding light.

Lots of bad stigma against HID's and LED's due to improper and sometimes idiotic uses.

The HID kit on my old VF and my current VFR...aswell as my daily Driver car (all have HID kits) and I have taken the time to ensure they illuminate the road ahead of me well, while still keeping the headlight aimed slightly down.

[image: View Post]slowbird, on 30 March 2011 - 01:43 AM, said:

[image: View Post]DownAndOutNYC, on 29 March 2011 - 12:48 PM, said:

If by noticeable, you mean "blinding oncoming traffic", then yes, even on a bright sunny day, a drop in HID kit will be more noticeable then staring at the sun...


Yes....if it's not aimed properly. Even an HID headlight that is aimed down to the ground directly infront of the bike will be an intense light when looked at but will not be shining in the eyes of oncoming traffic.

If the headlight is aimed upwards then yea....it's a blinding light.

Lots of bad stigma against HID's and LED's due to improper and sometimes idiotic uses.

The HID kit on my old VF and my current VFR...aswell as my daily Driver car (all have HID kits) and I have taken the time to ensure they illuminate the road ahead of me well, while still keeping the headlight aimed slightly down.


Its not (just) a matter of aiming the light lower. Its the fact that most halogen light housings do not have the sharp cutoff necessary for HID lights to reduce and prevent glare from the low beam, as well as most halogen housing purposely having some light bleed above the "cutoff" line of the low beam, which when paired with a HID and its light output, would be like having the lights permanently on high beams. Yes, some halogen light housings (when used with a drop-in HID kit) faired much better then others in one, or both issues, but those were only a handful (one design in particular was actually made to use either a halogen or HID bulb, though the light pattern on the road was very poor).

I've always advocated against drop-in HID kits cause of those issues which as you pointed out, HID lighting does get a bad rep because of it. What looks good and perfectly acceptable to the driver of the vehicle, may be blinding to all oncoming traffic.

If HID is the way you want to go, the best way to do so is with modifying the light housing to prevent any light bleeding above the cut-off line when running on low beams, which normally means a complete retrofit of a existing HID light housing into the stock light housing of your vehicle.