I really love my 97 VFR 750 I have as my second bike. I sold my two year old everyday bike and am looking for a new bike. The old VFR fits me perfectly and I stopped by the dealer today to look for a late model VFR. Of course I also took a look at the VFR1200 again to see if it grew on me since the last time. It feels good sitting on it, but I still cannot get used to the way it looks. Then I noticed a new kawasaki ninja 1000. I was very surprised but it feels very much like the 6th generation VFRs updated with side pipes instead of under seat pipes (much cooler for us Florida riders). Very comfortable. I'm not that crazy about the looks but I think it's better looking than the VFR1200and about $5000 cheaper too!
I had both Z1k & ZRX nakeds and the ergos are pretty much the same as the new Ninja1000 and excellent.
I think you can get the new 1000 with ABS and the hard bags out the door much cheaper than the 1200.
Too bad Kawi doesn't offer more color choices for the 1000 and the stock pipes are still ugly.
Overall, it's an excellent package for the price, really sporty and versatile & comfortable.
In total, I've owned 4 Kawis over the years (1 Suzi, 3 Hondas, 1 Duc) The Kawi has always been a pain in the ass to wrench on, knuckle scrapers, but it's reliable too.
[image: View Post]TurdEngineer99, on 20 May 2011 - 12:37 PM, said:
I had both Z1k & ZRX nakeds and the ergos are pretty much the same as the new Ninja1000 and excellent.
I think you can get the new 1000 with ABS and the hard bags out the door much cheaper than the 1200.
Too bad Kawi doesn't offer more color choices for the 1000 and the stock pipes are still ugly.
Overall, it's an excellent package for the price, really sporty and versatile & comfortable.
In total, I've owned 4 Kawis over the years (1 Suzi, 3 Hondas, 1 Duc) The Kawi has always been a pain in the ass to wrench on, knuckle scrapers, but it's reliable too.
I agree about the colors. I would have to go with black. As ugly as the pipes are, they are no worse than the VFR1200 abomination. Never been a fan of Kawi because of the marketing they seem to aim at very young riders. I don't think "Ninja" on that bike is helping them at all. Maybe they just don't realize who their market is for that bike. i have lots of respect for the VFR and Honda but just don't understand their thinking on style and price. Is a V4 that much more expensive to build? I still need to take them both out for a ride and see how they feel.
Sorry to say it here but the 1000 is the plan for my next bike. That being said, it will not be this year but already holds the #1 spot on my 50th birthday request list for the following year. (2013) I like to go cash on purchases and that won't be completed til then. It does stay close to the mind as it is my current wallpaper on my cell.
[image: View Post]The mailman, on 20 May 2011 - 07:44 PM, said:
Sorry to say it here but the 1000 is the plan for my next bike. That being said, it will not be this year but already holds the #1 spot on my 50th birthday request list for the following year. (2013) I like to go cash on purchases and that won't be completed til then. It does stay close to the mind as it is my current wallpaper on my cell.
I looked at both when I made my purchase recently. I ultimately decided on the VFR because I got a really good deal on it and it just seemed like a much better quality bike. I really wanted to get away from dealing with a chain too so that played into the decision as well. By 2013 you might be thinking again as I'm sure other models will come out or improve. They've also already announced that the VFR will be in black later this year when the 2011 model is released. I gotta say it's really sexy in black. I wish it was available this year but I doubt I've have got such a great deal on it in black.
All I can say is any bike your thinking of buying you need to test ride because even if everything on paper & the looks suit you the ride mightn't. I was all set to buy the Kawa because I really like the look of it (mufflers don't matter they would be upgraded anyway) & wanted a little more power than the VFR800 has to offer & all the reviews rave about it.
Test rode one & hated it after 5mins, the rider position is just to upright for me you feel disconnected from the bikes front wheel. The bars are so far back my wrists became sore in no time at all & the strange thing is my current ride is a CBR1000RR & that doesn't happen riding it, it has more to do with the angle on the Kawa as your wrists bend out wards. I couldn't sense what the front of the bike was doing & felt I need binoculars to see the instruments & the adjustable screen is pathetic because it shakes & bends like it wants to fall off, the mounting just doesn't have enough bracing, if there is any glare like riding anytime during the day don't expect to be able to see the LCD speed read out.
Motor wise very good & yes the rider position might be able to be adjust so more like the Z1000 which I like but fairing clearance could be an issue, so was a bike that I wanted but after a ride wouldn't own one & if someone gave me one I would sell it & buy a 6th Gen. On another note seeing it mentioned I would buy the VFR1200 even with the higher price except for one major problem, not able to turn ABS on/off like the BMW because here is Australia most of our windy roads have very bumpy surfaces & due to the extra weight during spirited riding you need max braking before tight corners. Well with the ABS if you hit major bumps while braking the ABS releases braking force because it senses the wheel locking up & more so when you stiffen the suspension & have seen friend nearly go into the bushes a few times because of this.
I have tested the VFR1200F once, about a 35 minute ride. And test rode the Ninja 1000 twice. Total ride time around an hour.
They are both still in the running to replace my 6th Gen. when the time comes. Neither is the perfect bike but whose is? The decision would be easy if the price was the same for both but even with some discounting at some dealers the Ninja1000 is still a lot cheaper. Time may be my friend as I probably will wait at least a year before buying. I would love more range and some color choices.
[image: View Post]keepergale, on 20 May 2011 - 09:22 PM, said:
I have tested the VFR1200F once, about a 35 minute ride. And test rode the Ninja 1000 twice. Total ride time around an hour.
They are both still in the running to replace my 6th Gen. when the time comes. Neither is the perfect bike but whose is? The decision would be easy if the price was the same for both but even with some discounting at some dealers the Ninja1000 is still a lot cheaper. Time may be my friend as I probably will wait at least a year before buying. I would love more range and some color choices.
What was the issue with the 6th Generation VFR that Honda felt the need to reinvent it into the VFR 1200? It is such a different bike, that I'm not sure why they discontinued the 800.
I should be taking delivery of my Ninja 1000 this week - finally :cheerleader: . I thought I read in some magazine reviews that the fairings kept most of the heat away from the rider's legs; I guess I'll find out. One thing: I'm eventually going to ask that someone outside the U.S. to acquire some "Z1000SX" stickers for the fairing. I don't want folks to think I'm too much of a :squid: .
BTW, I do like the VFR1200 in black; it's very elegant in that color.
[image: View Post]blkrabit, on 21 May 2011 - 11:53 PM, said:
One thing: I'm eventually going to ask that someone outside the U.S. to acquire some "Z1000SX" stickers for the fairing. I don't want folks to think I'm too much of a :squid: .
I must be getting old, I had the same thoughts about the Ninja name plate. I DO like what Honda did with the VFR. It's just that it isn't a VFR to me. Seems to be more of a BMW fighter, a totally different type of motorcycle. The Kawasaki is exactly what I was hoping for from Honda in the new VFR.
[image: View Post]blkrabit, on 21 May 2011 - 11:53 PM, said:
One thing: I'm eventually going to ask that someone outside the U.S. to acquire some "Z1000SX" stickers for the fairing. I don't want folks to think I'm too much of a :squid: .
I completely agree. The "Ninja" makes me wince. The decal might as well be
:squid: 1000
I think the Ninja 1000 is the just about what this community was asking for in the 7th gen VFR, other than an inline 4 of course. I really like my '02, I will wear it out and then find another with low miles. And that is where I think the Ninja will lack, I am going to ride my VFR for 150K, and probably won't experience any major issues, I really don't see the Ninja 1000 going 150K.
I had no idea these bikes even existed! Must be new from Kawasaki. My only hesitation with this bike would be that it is a beta year bike. There are always issues with beta year bikes. Looks like a good choice.
[image: View Post]elevation, on 22 May 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:
I had no idea these bikes even existed! Must be new from Kawasaki. My only hesitation with this bike would be that it is a beta year bike. There are always issues with beta year bikes. Looks like a good choice.
Re: beta bike: I'd say yes, but remember, this engine/chassis started with the 2010 Z1000. I haven't heard of any major issues with the '10 Z1000 (granted, not many have sold), so I'm reasonably confident that there won't be any surprises. Now, if I could only stuff a crossplane crankshaft and gear driven cams in there (evil laugh)....
[image: View Post]keepergale, on 20 May 2011 - 09:22 PM, said:
I have tested the VFR1200F once, about a 35 minute ride. And test rode the Ninja 1000 twice. Total ride time around an hour.
They are both still in the running to replace my 6th Gen. when the time comes. Neither is the perfect bike but whose is? The decision would be easy if the price was the same for both but even with some discounting at some dealers the Ninja1000 is still a lot cheaper. Time may be my friend as I probably will wait at least a year before buying. I would love more range and some color choices.
Revisited my old post. The price became the same and the decision was indeed easy. What turned out to be hard was waiting a year. :smile:
Anyone else reading the "bike for britain" feature in the last few issues of BIKE (UK) magazine?
They are having a really hard time with the Kawi.
Part 1 "B-Roads -"The infuriation is with a few things Kawasaki got wrong and could easily get right (like an ineffective fairing, narrow mirrors, too-wide panniers, and an almost precisely wrong, unadjustable bar position)" -"Unruly engine and boinging shock can catch you out and make the bike feel less nimble than it is" -"The Z's forks and shock feel the absolute minimum acceptable quality" -"In a staggering piece of after-event afterthinking, the pannier racks are mounted with so much clearance you could comfortably fit another pair between them and the bike" -"not especially accurate, a bit blunt" -"It's no fun riding this thing down these roads" -"the Z is too heavy, too poorly suspended and too damn rapid for its chassis"
Part 2 Track -"big, heavy and relatively bouncy" -"the motor is a huge novelty, but the chassis feels relatively ponderous, wobbly, heavy, crude" -"lack of ground clearance pushes it wide and it wallows mid corner"
Part 3 City -"filtering is a no-no with those panniers" -"the bike refuses to change direction" -"ponderous... Difficult on initial turn-in and then offers little confidence" -"feels cheap and worn" -"you could heat a village with the hot air leaving the fairing and fry a steak on the frame spars"
Part 4 A-roads -"if all bikes behaved like this I would think about giving up" -"Steering flops into corners, chassis bucks and complains, it runs wide and you have to wrench the bars" -"well, I've ridden worse, I think"
Half-Term Verdict - "...consistently let down by crude suspension and wayward steering. The comfy, grunty superbike concept has enormous potential but the execution's not there."
[image: View Post]The mailman, on 22 May 2011 - 09:50 AM, said:
I must be getting old, I had the same thoughts about the Ninja name plate. I DO like what Honda did with the VFR. It's just that it isn't a VFR to me. Seems to be more of a BMW fighter, a totally different type of motorcycle. The Kawasaki is exactly what I was hoping for from Honda in the new VFR.
Except for one glaring problem! It ain't a V4...
But don't get me wrong, I do like the Kawi for what is, not what it is not.
The Kawi Ninja 1000 was selected by Motorcyclist Magazine as their motorcycle of the year for 2011. I took a spin on one and was impressed. Still may end up with one in my garage. The riding position was near perfect for sport touring and a bit more upright than my 2003 VFR with Helibars. Stock seat was pretty good but I would have liked a little more room between the tank and the pillion seat. Brakes were very good with nice feel and plenty of stopping power. Clutch had a nice light feel and smooth take up. Gearbox was slick and smooth and required little pressure to change cogs. I did not get to push the bike too hard in corners but it handles nicely with as much or more front end feel as my VFR. It was not quite as quick to turn in as my VFR, but then I have suspension mods and raised the rear ride height a bit on my 2003. I would have liked to ridden the bike more agressively in order to really feel out the suspension, but it was not my bike so I took if relatively easy. The adjustable screen did flex a bit in the wind, but not enough to bother me. Puig already has a good replacement that is stiffer and larger. Insturments are simple and easy to read.
Then there is the motor! This thing had loads of mid range power! Shifting gears becomes almost unnecessary as it has torque everywhere. It lacks some of the top end power of a super sport litre bike, but it has the power where you need it for street riding. Fueling is smooth and spot on at all rpms. this is the kind of power delivery I would love to have on the VFR.
Negatives......the engine is buzzy. It has a balance shaft but there is still some vibration getting through the seat at around 3500-4500 rpm. The bars and pegs felt fine though. Exhaust cans are fugly as can be and sit close enough to the pegs that my heels rubbed them a bit. As I said before the seat needs a bit more fore and aft room. Overall I give it an 8 out of 10.
Nice review johnmark...it sounds like you are a fairly tall guy, no? I'm a pipsqueak at 5'7", but have been interested in this bike. Maybe I'll get a chance to ride one sometime. Buzzy engine bothers me...bought a 650R for my girlfriend and it has the same (probably worse) problem with lots of buzz around 3500-4500 rpm...annoying as hell.
I sat on the 1000 at the motorcycle show. Very nice! That motor has all the power you need. It's a detuned ZX-10. Better ergo's than the Zx-10
the seat well that's another story. A piece of cardboard ...not too comfy. It is very cool. A fantastic bike. but the seat sux!
[image: View Post]johnmark101, on 28 November 2011 - 12:07 PM, said:
Then there is the motor! This thing had loads of mid range power! Shifting gears becomes almost unnecessary as it has torque everywhere. It lacks some of the top end power of a super sport litre bike, but it has the power where you need it for street riding. Fueling is smooth and spot on at all rpms. this is the kind of power delivery I would love to have on the VFR.
Negatives......the engine is buzzy. It has a balance shaft but there is still some vibration getting through the seat at around 3500-4500 rpm. The bars and pegs felt fine though. Exhaust cans are fugly as can be and sit close enough to the pegs that my heels rubbed them a bit. As I said before the seat needs a bit more fore and aft room. Overall I give it an 8 out of 10.
I have a 6th generation VFR too. Is that what you are compareing the Ninja motor to? If so I understand your post. The 7th generation motor has great midrange. More than equal to the Ninja 1000. The VFR1200 I test rode did seem a little hurkey jurkey. The one I bought seems to fuel great. Thank goodness no need for after market fixes here.
[image: View Post]tincan1200, on 28 November 2011 - 01:12 PM, said:
I sat on the 1000 at the motorcycle show. Very nice! That motor has all the power you need. It's a detuned ZX-10. Better ergo's than the Zx-10
the seat well that's another story. A piece of cardboard ...not too comfy. It is very cool. A fantastic bike. but the seat sux!
The motor is not a detuned ZX-10. The motor is 1050cc. They designed it for their Z1000 and then brought the Ninja 1000 into the lineup.
I've ridden both the Ninja and the VFR1200 on test rides. Both are really good. My impressions from the test rides were;
1) VFR1200 - great power, even better brakes but heavy. Fit and finish was first class.
2) Ninja 1000 - great engine, tons of torque and a real hoot to ride. Brakes are only so-so. Comfortable upright riding positions. Not as refined and fit and finish is not as good as the VFR.
The VFR pricing was discounted to $12999 most everywhere I looked. The Ninja 1000 was $10999 (I think).
As good as they both are I wouldn't trade my 98 VFR for either of them
YMMV
My hang up with some sport touring bikes is weight. I do not want a bike much over 500 pounds. Since I ride solo I want something that can still be stuffed into a corner with ease. The 6th gen VFR is about as heavy as I want to go.
funny finding this topic . guess there are many guys out there who think the exact same . love the vfr1200 but also swayed by the ninja 1000. tell ya spending 10,000 plus on a bike can be hard ,especialy after your purchase having regrets on the bike . thats gotta be the worst ! buying a bike and feeling u spent your hard earned money on the wrong bike . one thing about the ninja though is there is pictures and talks about givi hard bags made for the ninja 1000 but i have heard they are not available yet ? or there is very limmited supply .
as for myself ,im glad i have another year or 2 before having to make the hard choice ......ninja ..... vfr...?
I test rode the Ninja 1000 when the Kawasaki Demo Truck rolled through town last Summer. My 5'7" frame found the compact cockpit very agreeable. But i can see how much taller riders might not like it so much.
The Ninja 1000 is a very versatile package like the VFR. One way to look at it is as a sportbike optimized for street riding. To me, it shares some much DNA with the Z1000, which makes it simply a UJM dressed in evening gown. And I do mean that in a very complimentary way, as I like UJMs a lot, having owned several in the past. It's an "everyman's" sportbike.
Regardless of how the moto-press tries to spin it, the VFR was design to go head to head with the K1200S and K1300S. Plain and simple. Honda freely admits their target audience is a 45yr old male, who prefers an upscale "gentleman's" sportbike that allows him to ride out an hour or so in search of the twisties, and not be tired out getting there and back. The shaft drive is acknowledgement to the target audience's preference for minimum maintenance and - frankly - the BMW sense of aethetics that this group is acustomed to. In short, they are describing... me. :smile:
Volfy, exactly my thoughts from my post last May..."I DO like what Honda did with the VFR. It's just that it isn't a VFR to me. Seems to be more of a BMW fighter, a totally different type of motorcycle." - and still my thoughts now. It HAS grown on me a bit more but I still don't see one in my future.
End of thread · 30 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 22 Jan 2012