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New MAP for the VFR1200???

17 posts Started 21 Sep 2011 Last recovered post 25 Sep 2011 Wayback Machine snapshot 26 Sep 2011

#1
Over on the VFR Club forum, they are discussing a NEW ECU Map, now available in UK.

http://www.bikersora...t=114975&page=7

Has anyone heard about this in the States??
Tomorrow I'll call around to the local (Houston) dealers, but frankly I'm not holding my breath unless I can give them a Service Bulletin number that they can find.
#3
I have the Honda bulletin # 07072011 from the UK guy "Tech" and will be giving it to the shop manager at North Hollywood Honda tomorrow.
#4
I have a PC-III on the 2002 Moto Guzzi LeMans and I use TuneBoy (like TuneEdit) to adjust the ECU on my 2002 Aprilia Futura.

While the TuneBoy/TuneEdits address the ECU registers directly (allowing you to change the values in the ignition and fuel injection matrices), the Power Commanders work by adding or subtracting values from the signals send to the fuel injectors (which is of course why the PCs plug-in essentially BETWEEN the ECU and the rest of the bike).

Since the Power Commanders just ADD or SUBTRACT, there's no reason that I can thnk-of that they "wouldn't work".
That being said, it WOULD be true that the existing PC-V maps for the VFR1200 WOULD be all wrong for the updated ECU.
OTOH it's likely just a matter of time before folks revise the PC maps to accommodate the new Honda map.

ALL OF THIS IS MOOT, of course, if the new Honda map doesn't make it to the USA.
#5

[image: View Post]fasterspider, on 20 September 2011 - 10:25 PM, said:

I have the Honda bulletin # 07072011 from the UK guy "Tech" and will be giving it to the shop manager at North Hollywood Honda tomorrow.


Excellent. That's just what I needed.
BTW, please let us know how it goes; the Brits seems to like the new map quite a bit.

Next step: a 6 gallon "accessory" fuel tank (!!) I'll start the bidding at $500.
#6
I spoke to Wild West Honda in Houston.
(1) There are no Service Bulletins "showing" on their system for a 2010 VFR
(2) They say that they have no way to search for a Service Bulletin by Service Bulletin Number.
(3) The number for Honda USA Customer Service in Gardena, California is 866-784-1870.
I'll see what they tell me before I try the other dealers.

Right this second, either (a) Wild West doesn't know what they're doing (quite possible) or (b) this Service Bulletin hasn't been "rolled-out" in the USA (for that matter, may NEVER make it here, e.g. because of EPA or CA-EPA rules)
#7

[image: View Post]fasterspider, on 20 September 2011 - 10:25 PM, said:

I have the Honda bulletin # 07072011 from the UK guy "Tech" and will be giving it to the shop manager at North Hollywood Honda tomorrow.


Do you have a copy of the ACTUAL Service Bulletin???
If so, could you POST IT so I can physicaly take it in to the dealer?

Any news from Hollywood Honda?

While waiting for Honda Customer Service to get out of a "meeting" (that's what the phone message said) I called Honda of Houston (much bigger dealer than Wild West) and THEY said they could look-up a Service Bulletin by number, but that #07072011 was NOT in the USA system. I wonder how much it would cost to send the ECU to Britain.
Kidding, just kidding. A Little.
#8
I missed this post from SOLOMOTO on another thread the first time through:

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 07 September 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

Well, I just found out from the local Powerhouse dealer that there is no map update available, at least not in CA. Apparently only the UK/EU markets get an update, let's hope one is not far behind for the US. I would much rather have a new map than use an expensive bandaid like PC5.


I believe that I am running-around merely CONFIRMING what he was told.
I'll see if I can get anything more from Customer Service (unlikely).

Any dealers in UK have spare ECUs they want sell in the States??
#9
As anticipated, Honda Customer Service (a boy named "Corey") was no help, and NOT INTERESTED in the problem.

There IS indeed NO outstanding Bulletin on the VFR1200F or DCT, there IS NO Service Bulletin 07072011, and "Corey" doesn't know anything about anything unless Mister Honda tells him so, so no possible information on whether or when this map might come to the USA.

My guess is that there are THREE possible reasons Honda is't extending this Bulletin to the USA:
(1) EPA regs, probably most importantly CA-EPA, shich likely require special and expensive testing to change the mapping
(2) not enough VFR1200s have been sold in the USA, so the cost of the roll-out isn't justified (although how much could it BE, relative to the COST of further alienating folks), or
(3) not enough VFR1200s have been sold in the USA, so there isn't enough "customer feedback" (in toto) to justify a new map.

"Corey" used the excuse that the UK/EU model was DIFFERENT, which I consider to be BS until I'm proven wrong.
The real problem, I'm afraid, is that with the internet, OWNERS can be smarter and better informed than so-called customer service. Worse, once a bike gets a bad reputation on the internet. it just snowballs unless and until the manufacturer steps in aggressively to fix it.

So, unless and until Honda makes their USA policy transparent (fat chance), I guess it's either a Euro ECU or a PC-V.
Shrug.
#10
NoHo Honda is making an inquiry at Mother Honda in Gardena about this "Service Bulletin 07072011" but, he said that is not how the service bulletins are written here in the USA.
We are most likely screwed on this because the VFR1200 has not been sold enough here for American Honda to give a shit about us few owners and our complaints.
#11
Had mine done here in the UK today megga different the bike still has a very slight glitch but its 99% better a world apart from when i took it in
not being smug cus we have the update here just letting you guys know it works and to bug your dealers for it
#12
no need for new map if you have a PCV, and do the GPS mod for 1st and 2nd. Bike runs fantastic; clean from 2500 to 10000rpm
#13

[image: View Post]Alang, on 22 September 2011 - 09:32 PM, said:

no need for new map if you have a PCV, and do the GPS mod for 1st and 2nd. Bike runs fantastic; clean from 2500 to 10000rpm


Understood. IF there's no OEM way to fix this glitch, that's what I'll have to do. However, seems silly to have to do that when there's an AVAILABLE fix from Mother Honda.

(a) it's cheaper (I think of the PC-V as a set of tires and an oil change; about 1 year's operating expenses for me)
(b) gear indicator still works in 1st and 2nd
© leaves room under the seat (OK, SMALL AMOUNT of room)
(d) eliminates another failure point; I know that PCs don't fail very often, and can be easily by-passed if they do, but why add complexity when it isn't needed?
(e) I told Honda "Customer Service" (sic) exactly that and "Corey" said that "Honda doesn't recommend modifications to the engine as it might void your warranty". Douchebag. I have enough trouble with Piaggio (2 Aprilias, 2 Moto Guzzis) with out hearing this crap from Honda.
I was going to say that "Corey" sounded like he had the intelligence of a Fast Food burger flipper, but that's unfair to Burger Flippers.
#14
I doubt this re-map eliminates the 1st and 2nd gear restriction.
#15

[image: View Post]phobe, on 23 September 2011 - 10:05 PM, said:

I doubt this re-map eliminates the 1st and 2nd gear restriction.


No it just sorts out the fueling low down.

If you already have a PC-V installed ist no use getting the remap.
#16

[image: View Post]Dutchgixxer, on 24 September 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

[image: View Post]phobe, on 23 September 2011 - 10:05 PM, said:

I doubt this re-map eliminates the 1st and 2nd gear restriction.


No it just sorts out the fueling low down.

If you already have a PC-V installed ist no use getting the remap.


I am a simple, old man. Well, a simple old man who likes to do The Ton on the way to work every damned day.
All I really need is something that "sorts-out the fueling down low" (good phrase BTW). I have a PC-III on the LeMans, so I definitely see the point of having one, but THAT bike has 92 hp (shaft) on ~500 lbs, so a few extra ponies are welcome. On the VFR I feel no need whatsoever for than ~150 hp at the rear wheel (although I don't blame folks who think they can use it); I just want to take low speed corners smoothly, without having to out-think the fuel injection.

I spoke to Mike Haven at MPH Cycles, our local Guzzi maven, today; he's just back from a week in Italy at the invitation of Piaggio,
HIS take is that it would cost Honda $50K or more to do the 50 states Emissions testing to qualify this fix, so either they aren't gonna do it, or it's in-process and will take several months. My personal belief is that they will homologate the remap on the large tanked 2012 model, then try to back qualify the 2010.

In any case, it looks like we Yanks are STUCK, at least for a while.

In the meantime, are there any UK dealers who will reflash my ECU for me??? I'll pay, provided we can turn it around within a couple of weeks. The Aprilia Futura would appreciate the attention anyway.

IF Honda brings us the large tanked 2012 vresion with the remap, I think that answers most of the complaints that reviewers had about the bike, and I would predict pretty strong sales, ALL at the expense of BMW.
#17

[image: View Post]hareynolds, on 24 September 2011 - 05:20 PM, said:

I am a simple, old man. Well, a simple old man who likes to do The Ton on the way to work every damned day.
All I really need is something that "sorts-out the fueling down low" (good phrase BTW). I have a PC-III on the LeMans, so I definitely see the point of having one, but THAT bike has 92 hp (shaft) on ~500 lbs, so a few extra ponies are welcome. On the VFR I feel no need whatsoever for than ~150 hp at the rear wheel (although I don't blame folks who think they can use it); I just want to take low speed corners smoothly, without having to out-think the fuel injection.

I spoke to Mike Haven at MPH Cycles, our local Guzzi maven, today; he's just back from a week in Italy at the invitation of Piaggio,
HIS take is that it would cost Honda $50K or more to do the 50 states Emissions testing to qualify this fix, so either they aren't gonna do it, or it's in-process and will take several months. My personal belief is that they will homologate the remap on the large tanked 2012 model, then try to back qualify the 2010.

In any case, it looks like we Yanks are STUCK, at least for a while.

In the meantime, are there any UK dealers who will reflash my ECU for me??? I'll pay, provided we can turn it around within a couple of weeks. The Aprilia Futura would appreciate the attention anyway.


I'm a former Guzzi guy myself, emphasis on "former". I owned an 07 Griso, sold it after 4 years just after I bought the VFR1200. The Griso was a nice bike with unique design and a fun ride if rather rough around the edges compared to the Honda fit and finish. But hey what would an Italian bike be if it were polished like a Honda? The factory support on the other hand is, as you imply, a joke. I thought Piaggio would improve things for Guzzi, but no. I had two warranty claims for some minor stuff and a recall outstanding that were never fulfilled by Piaggio in 4 years. I couldn't even obtain valve cover gaskets from the local dealer (which later closed its doors). How bad is that? I decided to give it up before a major breakdown occurred after 4 years of waiting and hoping that Piaggio would turn things around, and with the new VFR sitting next to it, it was a no brainer. I still have my 98 5th gen VFR though, it's a keeper.

So anyone who thinks the situation with Honda is bad, you've never dealt with an Italian bike company before. At least Honda and the other Japanese companies have real infrastructure and organization behind their bikes. It may not always please everyone, but it is there and that counts for a lot when you need fast delivery of replacement parts like when I lowsided the VFR. Except for a mirror, all parts were delivered a week later.

Things like re-mapping the ECU are in a different category of course than simple parts replacement and has lots regulatory hurdles and implications. Being an engineer myself I understand that once something enters mass production, making changes is like turning an oil tanker and takes lots of time and deliberation by several parties. Not easy to do nor quick. I do hope that a remap is in the works, though to be honest, I'm quite satisfied with the DCT, the low speed fueling issue for me is modest at worst. I would be very surprised if any EU dealer would be willing to re-flash a US model ECU due to the legalities, not to mention technical compatibilities involved. Won't hurt to try though.
End of thread · 17 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 26 Sep 2011