Sales Success of 7th Gen

Just curious, anyone know how well the 7th gen. VFR is selling?? I stopped at my local dealer today, he said they sold (1) VFR all year, and they practically had to give it away. I was also wondering why honda still has the 6th Gen. on its website, almost 3 years old. They list this bike for $15K +, I just saw a new one go for 10.5 K on ebay.

I do wish they would have improved the 6 gen (- VTEC, +100CC) instead taking the sport bike edge off it.

A 6th gen looking and feeling bike with a 1000cc V4 would be damn near perfect

I've talked with three dealers two of them have sold the 1200 one has not had one on the showroom but will order one if someone wanted one. In the two dealers that sold one they both told me that the 1200 vfr is only good for one sale a year. Young riders will be drawn towards the full sport bikes and normal old timers towards the cruisers, ST1300, and or Goldwing but abnormal old riders like me sure felt it was love at the first leg over.

Dispite all that I think motorcycle sales are down in general, bad year econonmically to intruduce a new model.

[image: View Post]SeeMeDo, on 08 October 2011 - 07:07 PM, said:

I've talked with three dealers two of them have sold the 1200 one has not had one on the showroom but will order one if someone wanted one. In the two dealers that sold one they both told me that the 1200 vfr is only good for one sale a year. Young riders will be drawn towards the full sport bikes and normal old timers towards the cruisers but abnormal old riders like me sure felt it was love at the first leg over.


I think that's exactly right, at least in the USA; Harley and Harley Clones have such a lock on the "mature" market (that is, anybody who abhors leaning forward, even a little tiny bit) that the VFR1200F is selling directly into a HUGE GAPING HOLE in the market in the USA. I understand that it's not as bad in Europe or the Far East, but HERE, the VFR1200F is POISON. One of our local dealers never even ordered one, another has TWO that he still hasn't sold, and I bought mine from a dealer in the heart of HD territory that had demo'd it for SIX MONTHS, during which time it collected all of 137 miles.

Things would have been a little better, I think, if (a) the tank was OVER 5 gallons, i.e. at least large enough to get ~200 mile range, (b) the first & second gear "nanny map" wasn't QUITE so obnoxious, and © factory bags weren't an arm and a leg.

But as it is, the Hog riders ask "why would anybody need so much horsepower??" or "Doesn't that riding position HURT YOUR BACK??" and the Squids ask "why is it so damned ugly and heavy??

Once they ride with me (that is, BEHIND) me, nobody asks ANY questions. "Oh." they say, "THAT'S why you like that bike..."

Just today, I came up alongside a Full Dresser, loafing along in the fast lane. I gave him the once over and a polite little thumbs-up, then downshifted to fifth (not really needed, just a little punctuation mark) and demonstrated the 70-100 acceleration of the VFR. Forgive me, your honor, for I have sinned; I did The Ton to embarrass a Gay Man Dressed Like a Pirate.

I am also one of those abnormal old (er, MATURE) riders for whom the VFR is damned near perfect.
And at $12,000 (+TTL) for the 137 mile "demo", I figure it was a steal. I've had the VFR for two months now, and literally haven't ridden ANY of my four other bikes. I'm pretty sure I'll keep the Dorsoduro, but the Aprilia Futura and the 2 Guzzis are looking like they gotta go.

I sure hope that the rumored changes on the 2012 model (larger tank, new map for better rideability) revive the VFR1200F. Having a rare bike is one thing; having an ORPHAN bike is something else entirely.

They will make it better. I would also like to see the VFR1200F and of course in RWB !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[image: View Post]hareynolds, on 08 October 2011 - 07:37 PM, said:

I think that's exactly right, at least in the USA; Harley and Harley Clones have such a lock on the "mature" market (that is, anybody who abhors leaning forward, even a little tiny bit) that the VFR1200F is selling directly into a HUGE GAPING HOLE in the market in the USA. I understand that it's not as bad in Europe or the Far East, but HERE, the VFR1200F is POISON. One of our local dealers never even ordered one, another has TWO that he still hasn't sold, and I bought mine from a dealer in the heart of HD territory that had demo'd it for SIX MONTHS, during which time it collected all of 137 miles.



That fear of leaning forward is strong. I have had cruisers, a first gen Concours, two Suzuki bandits and a 1983 goldwing. It was not until I bought my VFR800 that I realized how comfortable leaning forward could be. I think I would still have my Bandit 1200 if I had put lower bars and rear sets on it. I just assumed that leaning forward with rear sets would be uncomfortable.

[image: View Post]hareynolds, on 08 October 2011 - 07:37 PM, said:

I sure hope that the rumored changes on the 2012 model (larger tank, new map for better rideability) revive the VFR1200F. Having a rare bike is one thing; having an ORPHAN bike is something else entirely.


If those changes happen, I would run right out and buy one. -f the wife would let me and if I didn't love my 6th gen so much :)

But a 5 gallon tank is what the bike is missing.

My local dealler has a 2010 with 6kms on it. Its been sitting on his show room for over a year now. Everytime I go in sales manager tries to get me to trade in my 07 on it.

In Finland they sold a lot VFR1200's last year but not so much this year (said the local dealer). That is because they increased the price which was a bad move. I'm glad that it was not selling very good this summer as I made a very good deal a month ago when I bought one ../../../public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png .

I personally think the VFR is the best bike I've ever ridden and cannot think any bike that I would rather choose. Looks are very important for me so when I park it somewhere everybody keeps telling me how beautiful my red VFR is. Makes me feels.

Personally I don't miss a bigger tank, but what could be better is the rear shock, which can be very easily replaced.

Two cents, the bike is not an evolutionary change it's a revolutionary change. The looks have grown on me and besides the most important part is how it rides but with a big tach. and information to the right and left, it looks fantastic. Liked the BMW K1300 but the more I read about this bike, I am sold. Make sense they sell more elsewhere, it's more daily transportation in other places and it's a bike that does everything well. Bigger gas tank would be nice.

I'm a little curious about this... I know on paper a lot seems good... big power, shaft drive, nice bag integrated bag setup. But, like the 6th gen, the 7th gen didn't appeal to me at first... so eventually I started liking the 6th gen and now I have one... So maybe, I need to understand better before the same thing happens on the seventh gen.

I know it's quite a bit heavier... but what are the real issues with the 7th gen? I belive Miguel said it didn't handle... and I think he's got an Ohlins on there... so is the geometry too slow? and there's not enough adjustment to change it?

personally id buy a bmw k1300s before i spent 15,000 on a vfr.

[image: View Post]AndyB, on 09 October 2011 - 08:50 AM, said:

[image: View Post]hareynolds, on 08 October 2011 - 07:37 PM, said:

I think that's exactly right, at least in the USA; Harley and Harley Clones have such a lock on the "mature" market (that is, anybody who abhors leaning forward, even a little tiny bit) that the VFR1200F is selling directly into a HUGE GAPING HOLE in the market in the USA. I understand that it's not as bad in Europe or the Far East, but HERE, the VFR1200F is POISON. One of our local dealers never even ordered one, another has TWO that he still hasn't sold, and I bought mine from a dealer in the heart of HD territory that had demo'd it for SIX MONTHS, during which time it collected all of 137 miles.



That fear of leaning forward is strong. I have had cruisers, a first gen Concours, two Suzuki bandits and a 1983 goldwing. It was not until I bought my VFR800 that I realized how comfortable leaning forward could be. I think I would still have my Bandit 1200 if I had put lower bars and rear sets on it. I just assumed that leaning forward with rear sets would be uncomfortable.


Yes, Yes. Personally, I find that a bolt-upright seating position hurts MY back unless my feet are directly below me (as on a BMW GS or the Dorsodurp or a MotoGuzzi Stelvio (a GS Clone)) so I guess I've go tthe opposite infirmity Plus, I've always felt that control is enhanced with a little more weight over the front wheels and a seating position that allows shifting your weight left-right. Clearly, most Hog riders can't do that, as the seats are normally CUPPED. I guess with a 800+ lb.SLEDGE with a 30 degree rake and out-rigger floor boards LEAN ANGLE and Improved CONTROL are secondary or tertiary issues.

I ascribe personal preferences in motorbikes to what you were exposed-to in your mis-spent youth (and if you're riding motorcycles, you had a mis-spent youth by definition). I started riding in New England, less than 100 miles from Loudon, now NASCAR but built as a motorcycle track. I was briefly a member of the AAMRR (the "alphabet racers") although only toured around the track on my vintage Bultaco 2-stroke road racer, waiting for it to seize-up at a moment's notice. I followed the career of Mike Hailwood. The Isle of Man Tourist Trophy races are on my bucket list. Europeans who only own motorcycles are my role-models. Oh, and I DON'T DRINK if I'm gonna ride a motorbike, let alone consider a Tour of Hill Country Ice-Houses to be a good idea. None of this make me particularly popular with Hog Nation.

I'm not sure what combination of influences makes folks into Harley People. HD marketing, Easy Rider, Nostalgia for American Technical Supremacy [AKA American Iron], Costumes for Middle-Aged Men, Group-Think, Reverse Snobbery, Peer Pressure, Flat-Track Racing? There's got to be some combination of factors at work which are analogous to my experiences, but with the opposite outcome.

I find that HD folks rarely ride anything else, so while they can sometimes recite the Harley Model Canon (another alphabet soup), they probably haven't ever even ridden a Concours or a BMW 1300GT or even a Goldwing, and they would NEVER consider riding a motorbike as primary transportation.

OTOH, I myself took my motorbike license test on a borrowed 1972 sportster, which was the first and LAST Harley Davidson I have ever ridden for more than 5 minutes, so maybe I'm just as bad, in reverse. Nah; I'd own a Buell. What's that you say? There IS no more Buell?

[image: View Post]ericlw, on 09 October 2011 - 11:33 AM, said:

personally id buy a bmw k1300s before i spent 15,000 on a vfr.

I agree 100%. Well, I agree at the $16K LIST PRICE for the 2010 Viffer (a ridiculous conceit on the part of Honda), since that's still within spittin' distance of the grossly overpriced K1300S.

[Note that nobody seems to be getting up in BMW grille about their ridiculously over-priced bikes, presumably because of all that "German Engineering" crap. (don't argue with that point or I'll cite chapter and verse on Why Airheads are Rolling Pieces of CRAP, using my 1985 RT as the example). Meanwhile, Honda is perceived as the Motorbike of the People, and People are outraged (including me) when they overprice a motorbike. Maybe they need an Acura motorbike division; the VFR could be their first one.]

I came REAL close several times to a K1200S or a K1300S, but I bought a Big Viffer demo for $12K even, roughly $6K less than the Base Model K1300S which are hard to find and NOT discounted. The Ks fit me a little better (at least with Helibars), have a nicer cockpit (IMHO), and have the Roundel cache, but the TeleLever is still a little dead and there's those niggling quality issues. But at $12K for a 137 mile VFR, it was an EASY decision.

Long story short, the VFR100F was obviously aimed at the K1300S (however inaccurately) NOT the Triumph Sprint ST/GT or as a true replacement for the Interceptor. THAT'S why I think they made an error calling it a Honda VFR, a name with all sorts of baggage amongst the faithful which Honda mercilessly stomped-on when they named the 1200. My suggestion: the Acura 1200ST. IIRC the VFR1200 already has a dedicated manufacturing plant; just change the sign on the door.

[image: View Post]WERA910, on 09 October 2011 - 11:18 AM, said:

I'm a little curious about this... I know on paper a lot seems good... big power, shaft drive, nice bag integrated bag setup. But, like the 6th gen, the 7th gen didn't appeal to me at first... so eventually I started liking the 6th gen and now I have one... So maybe, I need to understand better before the same thing happens on the seventh gen. I know it's quite a bit heavier... but what are the real issues with the 7th gen? I belive Miguel said it didn't handle... and I think he's got an Ohlins on there... so is the geometry too slow? and there's not enough adjustment to change it?

If I lived amongst the Real Twisties (say, New England, NoCal, the twisty bits of Appalachia (roughly say Northern Georgia up through West Virginia) I would NOT have bought a VFR1200F. It's not that it won't HANDLE the twisties, it's just that it isn't built for doing them ALL the time.

I liken riding the VFR to dancing with a big German girl, like the ones at Oktoberfest who can carry a dozen beer steins at once. There's a lot to be said for that (e.g. you wont be cold at night, and you'll never run out of beer) but that's NOT the kind of girl you want to take to a Dance Marathon, OR wrestle with for that matter.

Remember, Honda marketing described the target customer as (paraphrasing now) a "mature" rider who lives and hour or two from the twisties. I think they hit that particular nail on the head. IF however, you live IN and AMONGST the twisties, an earlier gen VFR or dare I say the Aprilia Futura (an Italian VFR clone with a 1 liter Vee-twin) would be MUCH better.

For Texas, where our "twisties" would be called mild sweepers in Northern New England, and where there's LOTS of real estate between destinations, the VFR1200F is damned near perfect. It's only a Touring Fuel Tank away from perfection in my book.

[image: View Post]Switchblade, on 09 October 2011 - 05:32 AM, said:

They will make it better. I would also like to see the VFR1200F and of course in RWB !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Do you mean like the 2007 model? That's easily MY favorite color scheme for a Viffer, but I wonder how it would look on the weird layered fairing of the VFR1200F.

The current paint job is more like a luxury car (really deep, stylish silver metal flake) rather than a flatish multi-color "race-bike" paint job like the RWB color scheme on the Viffer, or say any of the Aprilia sport bikes (see RSV4). I'm thinking there will be MORE luxury-car paint options before we see any track-type paint schemes or heaven forbid DECALS (see REPSOL CBR1000RR). Say a really deep midnight blue, or maybe a two-tone silver gray.

in Brazil the beginning of the 7 gen in May this year. I have one at 59 years. I love the bike. I rode over 9000 km since then. pure passion. Mrs. honda provided it 20/month. 17 are now in (media). the few guys that I found love it. Here, the third world, is proce is $ 40,000. jesus!

[image: View Post]twitte, on 08 October 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

I do wish they would have improved the 6 gen (- VTEC, +100CC) instead taking the sport bike edge off it.

Agreed!

I think the the 90deg V4 has a better rumble to it as well.

[image: View Post]rickmick, on 09 October 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

Here, the third world, is proce is $ 40,000. jesus!


Wow .... colour me uninformed/ignorant but I just don't understand why the price varies soooo much around the world!? I'm sure it's got lots to do with supply and demand but $40K ... really?

yes, yes! the taxes in Brazil is 90%! Believe me!!

[image: View Post]hareynolds, on 09 October 2011 - 12:23 PM, said:

If I lived amongst the Real Twisties (say, New England, NoCal, the twisty bits of Appalachia (roughly say Northern Georgia up through West Virginia) I would NOT have bought a VFR1200F. It's not that it won't HANDLE the twisties, it's just that it isn't built for doing them ALL the time.


Neither were previous VFR's by that measure. I live amongst the "real" twisties and between my 98 VFR800 and DCT, guess which one gets the nod most of the time? I've had my suspension optimized by suspension pro's for my weight and riding preferences on both bikes, and I can tell you, to borrow from the recent MotoUSA road sport comparison, the steering response is telepathic. It's Look, Think, Go. No, it's not a supersport but neither is the 800. The VFR1200 is a very worthy road machine that can hold it's own against many sportier bikes, and unless you fancy yourself to be a Rossi or Stoner, it's a better bike than most mortals are riders.

If your bike (or any others for that matter) don't handle like I describe, get it evaluated by a reputable suspension pro who knows how to tune the internals, and have it sprung, damped, and ride height setup for you. The stock bike comes with average settings for the prototypical average person, so if you don't fit that model, don't just settle for average.

Doesn't handle? Says who? Probably people who have never ridden one. ;)

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If I was able to do more rides like the last one (2,469 miles in 6 days from south of Atlanta to the Fall Catskills ride and home - less than 90 miles on interstate after getting north of Atlanta until we left at 10 Sunday morning heading home for Tuesday work) I would have a VFR1200.

I like the bike for that but it does not feel as sporting as 5th or 6th gen. Probably because it is not taxed at 80-100 mph freeway speeds.

That being said, the VP of Honda sales and marketing tweeted yesterday that we will find out on November 8th whether there is going to be a 2012 VFR1200.

Bill is a good guy and straight shooter. If we were riding across the Cherohala to lunch and Bill was on a Gold Wing, we would struggle to put 3 minutes on him (without getting arrested) so the argument between VFR800 vs VFR1200 is kinda futile. They are both great bikes but the argument that those who wanted something more sporting in the next generation is left hanging like an ST bike with 185 mile range.

I kinda think they may have some changes (updated fuel tank at least) even if large displacement bike sales are in a worldwide slump.

Like always, threads like this usually deteriorate into "my VFR is better than yours"...blah blah blah....and "my bike 's a VFR and not yours".......blah blah blah.....and "It's not selling cause they got it all wrong...blah blah blah blah....
Forget it guys, Nobody's gonna change any bikes name after it is sold as such so it's a waste of time arguing about it. Just get and ride the VFR that you like best and leave it at that!
.............................Now lets just all get along and bash the latest Ducatis and BMWs instead! :rolleyes: :tongue:

Beck
95 VFR

From the dealer perspective (I part time at a shop): My 6th gen customers are about half happy, half always looking for a new bike. My 7th gen customers (all 4 of them) are all madly in love with their bikes, which they all bought for a few bucks over cost by the way. And not one of my 5th gen customers could have theirs pried from their hands. Its a great bike, not a perfect bike but what is. It is a bit pricey, and needs a little tweaking right off the showroom (1st 2nd restriction), but it took me exactly one ride to see why it belonged in the VFR family.

that said, my 5th gen sounds better so neener neener neener :tour: