Disabling ABS

Has anyone managed to turn the stupid ABS off without throwing a fault light????

im sure the ABS is fine for wet weather or freeway riding but honestly have they seen the roads in OZ, the fun ones aint smooth and the bloody ABS is going to kill me

If you want the ABS off, why would you care if there's a fault code? Pull the bulb for the ABS light from the cluster if it comes on when you disable.

Not that I understand why you'd want to disable, just saying.

The reason to disable ABS on allot of the roads in oz is because most of our tight mountain roads have major ripples from trucks braking or just plain bumps from pot hots being filled etc. With ABS what happens is your braking hard for a tight corner & as soon as your front wheel hits bumps the ABS will let go & reapply but that's enough to send you onto the wrong side of the road because we are talking about spirited riding narrow mountain roads. This becomes even more exaggerated if you tend to trail brake into the corner, I have watched this happen a few times & without ABS there would never have been a problem, the road isn't a lose surface it just the bumps have same effect with ABS because you have momentary lose of traction which the ABS reads. If you road at a normal pace there probably wouldn't be a problem but when some of us venture into the mountains that's when the fun starts.

Yeah, pull the bulb.


I'm more interested in the proposition that the roads in Australia are completely different from the rest of the ABS-riding, developed world.

[image: View Post]zRoYz, on 19 October 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

The reason to disable ABS on allot of the roads in oz is because most of our tight mountain roads have major ripples from trucks braking or just plain bumps from pot hots being filled etc. With ABS what happens is your braking hard for a tight corner & as soon as your front wheel hits bumps the ABS will let go & reapply but that's enough to send you onto the wrong side of the road because we are talking about spirited riding narrow mountain roads. This becomes even more exaggerated if you tend to trail brake into the corner, I have watched this happen a few times & without ABS there would never have been a problem, the road isn't a lose surface it just the bumps have same effect with ABS because you have momentary lose of traction which the ABS reads. If you road at a normal pace there probably wouldn't be a problem but when some of us venture into the mountains that's when the fun starts.


I have full abs and ride tightroads fairly agressively, including elevational , Maybe its a technique, and even set up with suspension, but the abs not a big issue, IMO on the street at ALL with agressive riding. Any differences are easily adaptable. But I dont know how the 1200vfr set up its abs, if like a fifth gen it may be too much LINKED wise. BUt the Linked works best with abs, or you could lock up the rear with front brake on heavy decel braking.

I will say when I first got the vfr I was running into a down hill tight offcamber 90degree, and trial braking the front into the APEX, right as I was about to release the brake the ABS did it for me, I thought the front tire slipped but noT. Never had the issue again, either, the abs broke in or I adapted.

Abs is outstanding on slick road, you dont have to worry about face planting, Anyway, my 2 cents , but yeah, easy to disable, but then you have linked brakes that will not have the value of abs, and you dont want linked brakes without ABS, with agressive ride, especially wet agressive riding.

Now I could see at expert level, on full out track bike, not wanting linked or ABs

Hayden,
Instead of disabling the ABS system, it may be possible to "trick" the system into thinking it is still working normally. Remove the front ABS sensor from the front wheel and using a "Y" connector, you can connect the front ABS sensor connector to the rear one so the ECU still thinks both wheels are turning even though the front may have locked up.

Alternatively it may be possible to mount the front sensor on the rear wheel so it gets the same signal as the rear sensor.

Getting the correct connectors to do it may be a bit of a pain but in the long run it may be worth it for you if you don't wish to have the ABS active. This is the only way I can think to do it without causing a system fault or have the ABS light come on.

I know this is the only way the DCT model can be dyno tested because the front wheel must be turning for the system to allow gear upshifts.

As usual I stand corrected.

See you at the Snowy's..!

Cheers,
Smithy.

[image: View Post]zRoYz, on 19 October 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

The reason to disable ABS on allot of the roads in oz is because most of our tight mountain roads have major ripples from trucks braking or just plain bumps from pot hots being filled etc. With ABS what happens is your braking hard for a tight corner & as soon as your front wheel hits bumps the ABS will let go & reapply but that's enough to send you onto the wrong side of the road because we are talking about spirited riding narrow mountain roads. This becomes even more exaggerated if you tend to trail brake into the corner, I have watched this happen a few times & without ABS there would never have been a problem, the road isn't a lose surface it just the bumps have same effect with ABS because you have momentary lose of traction which the ABS reads. If you road at a normal pace there probably wouldn't be a problem but when some of us venture into the mountains that's when the fun starts.

I think the debate here is the fact that not many folks brake hard into corners on the road, so they don't witness the problem.

Just pull the fuse for it....

But not sure about the 7th Gen but my 6th Gen you really have to come on the brakes hard to hit the ABS, a lot harder than I ever have even under the most spirted riding. I've never had mine on the track but never seen any post here about people bumping in to the ABS well on the track.

The VFR has a super ABS system. Before you go messing with it, just ride it and work to your higher pace and see how it handles.

I wouldn't go messing with the sensors, you may find the ECM needs the feedback.

[image: View Post]NorthernVFRDave, on 20 October 2011 - 09:43 PM, said:

I wouldn't go messing with the sensors, you may find the ECM needs the feedback.

No the 6th-gen ABS is totally separate to the ECU. There are no wiring interconnects between the two systems.

Didn't have any issues with ABS being a "traction problem" on the race track. A bumpy race track to boot! :smile:
My only complaint is the mushy suspension under load and overheating OEM tires :ohmy:

Also rode a ABS equipped CBR1000RR, 07 ST1300 and my Goldwing with no inherent "ABS traction dangers" on the same race track.
I push anything with two wheels to their extreme capable limits :tongue:

Honda has the ABS system down to an awesome science

Sort the problem at its root: suspension ! Forksprings are to soft to cope with the heavy breaking. Mount some siffer springs in the range 10-11kg/mm and some extra highspeed compression damping.

[image: View Post]XXBirdman, on 19 October 2011 - 06:53 AM, said:

Has anyone managed to turn the stupid ABS off without throwing a fault light????

im sure the ABS is fine for wet weather or freeway riding but honestly have they seen the roads in OZ, the fun ones aint smooth and the bloody ABS is going to kill me

Hey XXBirdman - which of your bike line-up (in your garage) has ABS? No VFR12 mentioned which is the only viffer ever sold in Oz with an ABS option.

Signed,

Confused (AKA TexOz)

This isn't an opinion on the pros & cons of ABS, also Birdmans suspension on his VFR1200 has been fully upgraded it has CBR1000RR Ohlins 30mm cartridge kits adapted to work so has rebound & compression adjustment & rear shock is a Penske. We aren't talking about race track because even with a few bumps on a race track you have the complete track, on a road you have limited width & go over that your in oncoming traffic.

We are talking about very hard braking into tight bumpy corners punting the VFR1200 probably harder than what it's designed for & I have been behind him & watched his bike over run a corner because the ABS released braking strength. He had a BB without ABS & never had such a problem, ABS might be great, I'm just conveying the problem with it on the VFR1200 in situations like I explained, on smooth surface or just the odd bump it is fine, it's the ripple effect bumps (where trucks have brake & cause tar to ripple) he has the problem.

His good suspension has probably if anything exaggerated the problem because it is allot stiffer than standard because he is a 120kg odd rider.

nothing to be confused about TexOz i posted this in the 7th gen area did i not so therefore i must be talking about a POS 1200 my garage lineup is sooooooo old, the VF750 is now in ausmithy's capable hands.

i dont want to just pull the fuse guys i want it switchable, like the Beemer.
Theres times where i would have the ABS on like wet weather riding or braindead highway riding or if im following a wanker on a Gixxer as they generally only know how to go quick in a straight line.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 19 October 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

Abs is outstanding on slick road, you dont have to worry about face planting, Anyway, my 2 cents , but yeah, easy to disable, but then you have linked brakes that will not have the value of abs, and you dont want linked brakes without ABS, with agressive ride, especially wet agressive riding.



why wouldnt you want linked brakes without ABS??linked brakes are fine without ABS, trackdays on the Blackbird at Eastern creek braking into turn 9 (hairpin) would see the rear wheel off the ground quite often so of course it stops spinning, ABS means as soon as this happened it would release the brakes making sure you maintained too much speed to make the corner.

Im not saying ABS is a bad thing im saying for the average person its fine, anyone who knows how to ride drive will stop a vehicle quicker without it!!!!

i quite often will do some large stretches of twisty corrugated dirt road so ABS is a no no!!, im all for technical advances but when it takes the choice away from the end user as to whether its used or not then its a backwards step.

If zRoyz had ABS on his blade he wouldn't have been able to purposely drop it before a steel gate after a major brain fade where he missed a corner and went down a dirt access road, ABS would have meant more damage to bike due to hitting gate bolt upright instead of sliding under and no doubt damage to Roy

[image: View Post]XXBirdman, on 21 October 2011 - 01:46 AM, said:

i dont want to just pull the fuse guys i want it switchable, like the Beemer.

Put a toggle switch inline after the ABS fuse. Turn it on and off at will. (I'm not familiar with the ABS) so if you still have a fault light you could pull the bulb or tape over it (much like a "remove before flight" flag to remind you it's off).

If you really wanted to get fancy, you could hack the dash circuit board and drop a loop from the ABS warning light down to your (now double pole) switch and have the switch chop the ABS light circuit at the same time..... Or find what signal is dropping when the ABS fuse is pulled and have the (again double pole) switch now provide the "happy signal" while ABS is disabled. (I'd be reluctant to go this route... a switch contact failure could result in you not getting a genuine warning light during an actual ABS malfunction.)

Personally, if I had a bike that I labeled "worst Honda i have owned for my riding style", I'd leave it unmolested to keep the resale value up and move on to a bike that fits my needs.

[image: View Post]XXBirdman, on 21 October 2011 - 01:46 AM, said:

nothing to be confused about TexOz i posted this in the 7th gen area did i not so therefore i must be talking about a POS 1200 my garage lineup is sooooooo old, the VF750 is now in ausmithy's capable hands.

i dont want to just pull the fuse guys i want it switchable, like the Beemer.
Theres times where i would have the ABS on like wet weather riding or braindead highway riding or if im following a wanker on a Gixxer as they generally only know how to go quick in a straight line.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 19 October 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

why wouldnt you want linked brakes without ABS??linked brakes are fine without ABS, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For one reason and one reason only, if operation of one brake, causes the other brake to lock up , and this can happen with linked brake models in certain conditions, the abs prevents that.

The 6th gen was purposely reduced on effect of the linked system, but it still has the capability on locking the rear utilizing the front brake in certain conditions, abs wont allow that , on the brake you didnt intend to activate. The 7 th gen is more a touring bike, so I dont know what kind of Braking linkage ratio is used.

Anyway, The abs on my 6th gen, you cant compare to any car abs system, which generally suck , Its fairly effective to me, usable and stopps great, even on known slick surface I can pressure the front brake more than I would a Non abs. Which actually stops you quicker in those conditions, cause it rides the edge of traction and braking traction. Many think the abs system only works under hard braking, but thats not true, especially with high end abs systems.





One time, I was in 6 inch deep pea gravel in heavy rain about 45 mph, went to grab some front brake for a turn off, and the front end just started wallowing, I had to get off the front and use the rear only. Slow yeah ABS is for street, but Im not disconnecting it just to ride down a dirt road.

I've done a few trackdays on my 1200 and wished I could shut off the ABS. Braking for turn 1 I would suddenly lose braking power and get thrown way off my line. I had to move my brake marker way way shorter than I would have used on either of my 3 CBRs. Mind you, that's at the end of a 1000m straight doing about 145MPH and bumpy as hell. It takes a lot to engage it on dry pavement

I had one moment on the road as well, pulling off to a little turnout coming down the Beartooth Pass in Montana. I was going a little faster than I realized, hit some gravel and couldn't get the bike stopped.

Still, I'm not fool enough to have bought the 1200 for trackdays,,,, there are much better choices for much less money. And though I'm a skilled enough rider, I'm sure some day the ABS could save my hide and I'm still glad I have it. And the VFR1200 is still the best motorcycle I've owned.

The 2 wheel sensors are linked with the ABS ecu. The rear wheel sensor is used for speed measurement as well via the Vsp signal from ABS ecu to main ECU. So both systems are linked.

If the front braked is applied only the frontbrake is active. But if you use the rear brake the front brake is applied as well. But only 2 brake pistons are pressureised so locking the font is not going to happen.

Conclusion, disable the ABS is simply done by pulling a fuse. Chance of locking the front wheel is small, because who is using the rear brake at the track anyway ?

ok so after all this banter obviously no one has played around with it, i might shoot Mr Honda some emails and see what happens but other than that ill pull the fuse, if that works ill run an inline switch to the fuse.

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 21 October 2011 - 03:49 AM, said:

Personally, if I had a bike that I labeled "worst Honda i have owned for my riding style", I'd leave it unmolested to keep the resale value up and move on to a bike that fits my needs.

yep i havent done much to the bike at all as im still thinking of getting rid of it, if i could take a pillion and hard luggage on an R1 then i would have my perfect bike, unfortunately no one bike can do everything
I see myself test riding a new ZX1400 when they arrive, if i can get hard luggage on it, its probably going to be a better option than persisting with the VFR

Yeah, It just seems that life is too short to put up with something you really don't care for. Move on down the road to something that makes you happy.

[image: View Post]XXBirdman, on 24 October 2011 - 04:06 AM, said:

> if i could take a pillion and hard luggage on an R1 then i would have my perfect bike <

Where there is a will, there are relatives is a way!