thinking of buying a DCT

Alot of people are trying to talk me out of it saying the 1200 would be too much bike for beginner and that I would ruin it. I would like some input from some of you on this topic. Being a 250 lb guy, I don't feel like buying a 600 and using it for a while only to resell it. When I make a purchase, I always know what I want, and plan to keep it.

I don't know anyone who didn't drop their first bike at least once... if your just starting out get a used smaller bike to learn on, take a MSF riding course, and get your yips out of the way on something easier to start on and less likely to break your heart if you ding it up...

Oh, and btw... welcome to VFRD!!!!
:tour:

thanks for the welcome. I am a very conservative guy, so when people started warning me I did listen. Just having a tough time with it since I guess I did not want to start out on a smaller bike. Very discouraged because I want a VFR1200 really bad.

Unfortunately I agree with with rush2112. It's a lot of bike to learn on at it's not cheap, I teach the MSF courses for Tinker AFB in Oklahoma city and one of the things I tell new riders is start with a smaller used bike until you learn how to ride better and what kind of riding that you are going to enjoy.

I see many new riders with brand new bike taking our courses and lay them down doing the simplest things, and this is on a closed course with experienced rider coaching them.

I would love to see more 1200 out there on the streets but I would rather see more riders period.

Shawn
MSF Rider coach

I'll be the voice of dissent here.

You say you're conservative.... ride conservatively, ease into it. Ultimately you are in control of your right wrist and the situations you place yourself and your motorcycle in.

You can learn to ride on a big bike just as easily as on a small bike. You can take the MSF on a rental. The learning curve will be steeper and cost more on a more powerful bike though.

You will drop it. If you go in knowing that and are prepared for it you'll be fine. It's only money and your bones. Starting on a small bike does not guarantee that you won't wad it and your bones up. Ride like a granny to start with and very slowly expand your horizons. Get what you want to ride. There are plenty of people on here who started on something other than a "learner's bike" and they're just fine. You can do it too.

You'll enjoy riding more as you gain confidence............you'll gain confidence quicker if you learn on a less powerful, more forgiving
bike. Buy a 4th gen............they're fun, inexpensive and won't depreciate much if dropped. You'll know when it's time to jump to the 1200.
Lust shouldn't outweigh logic...........not for bikes anyway!! Good luck and ride safe.

If you really want it that much, get it.
But you've been warned. You will drop it and you will pay dearly for repairs - This bike isn't cheap to repair - All plastics and eye candy.

From personal experience, I haven't began dropping my bikes until I've learned how to ride them. It's kinda like a person who can't swim won't ever drown type of deal.

So, if you're prepared to spend a coupla hunder bux here and there for cosmetic repairs, go for it, 'coz there is no point buying a bike you don't like.

I took the equivalent of the MSF course here in BC on their bikes (a Honda 125 for the parking lot stuff; Suzuki GS500 for the street portion--and I did drop it once). My first (running :tongue: ) street bike was a '90 VFR750. I piled on just over 100,000kms without dropping it. I managed quite a few kms on my BMW 1150GS before finally succumbing to all that weight up high (but not a bike easily damaged in a standstill drop).

So....I probably would have been fine on a VFR1200 to start....but, if I were to start over again, I'd have gone with something smaller as I think I would have built my skills much more quickly. And I'd advise the same to you.

I think a smallish dualsport is the best place to start, but if you want a street bike, I'd look for a late model SV650 with abs. Preferably the naked model. Add some sliders, look after it, sell for close to what you paid for it or trade in, get a 1200.

I see a missing factor, not knowing how you seat on the bike, I don't disagree with the smaller bike starting plan, but if you think you can start on the 1200 not knowing how to ride, you need to be able to plant both feet on the ground with some room to spare. The wt. of the bike will be a concern for you during the learning process more at the slow turns and start/stopping phases, they're so easy to get out of balance even for long time riders.......
But if you're short, a tall heavy bike is going to fight you..........
Welcome and good luck.........

Being 6'5" and 250lbs, I bought a big expensive bike for my first and of course I laid it down. If I had to do it all over again I would have gone in smaller.

Later when I bought my wife her first bike I made sure it was a used more beginner type bike. Even though she dropped it several times I got every last cent I bought it for back out of it. Had 5 calls on it the first 15 minutes it was up on craigslist and it was sold an hour later.

As long as you buy a beginner bike smart it will be no trouble selling it. It wont hurt so bad when it gets damaged and you will really learn to appreciate all that the 1200 has to offer like hydraulic clutch, abs, auto shift, etc.

not that you have to be a track wizard to ride the 1200 vfr or that it is some beast that is very hard to manage, it's not, or that ridding a 250cc bike will get you ready for a bigger bike, it will not, but the 250 will get used to making decisions on the road while ridding a bike. Take the MSF course after the course take time to make the decision.

My recommendation is a little different. It's not a question of small bike or big bike, but rather EASY bike. There is a certain logic that a small bike is easier to ride because it's lighter. However, I suggest you buy a cruiser style bike because of its super low center of gravity. You can find something with a lot of displacement that should handle your weight well, say 1200cc and up. Every bike manufacturer has something to offer. Get something well used and put at least one year under your belt. That's how I started, on a Shadow 750 for one summer. I bought it for 6400$ and sold it the next year for 5000$ and the only thing I did was put gas in it and one oil change. Cheapest 14000km I ever done. I learned a lot of street smarts and it was weak enough that I couldn't get into too much trouble. I dropped it a few times, nothing broke cuz there's no plastics and it was easy as pie to pick up...not so for a top heavy bike like VFR's (don't ask how I know :blush: ).

Back to my original thought, that Shadow 750 was SOOO EASY to ride....

Food for thought,

Brian

My Cooworker is 6-4. He bought a Versys. Its a Parallel 650. Nice and tall. He rails it pretty good. for a beginner. Its tall. Plenty of power and decent MPG. IT isn't pretty but to learn on it's a good choice I believe.

my .2

well i didnt learn to ride on my 02 vfr but it was my first bike. i learned to ride on my fathers 68 bmw after awhile i bought my own.

[image: View Post]bryanfor311, on 16 November 2011 - 08:51 PM, said:

Alot of people are trying to talk me out of it saying the 1200 would be too much bike for beginner and that I would ruin it. I would like some input from some of you on this topic. Being a 250 lb guy, I don't feel like buying a 600 and using it for a while only to resell it. When I make a purchase, I always know what I want, and plan to keep it.
Bryan,

This will go against the tide I'm sure, but quite simply it's doable.

Would I can it an IDEAL first bike... no... but again it is doable if your mind is already set. Honestly, you could ask 10 people and get 10 different answers. Most folks simply say "buy a 600" as you mentioned. The funny thing is, depending on what type of "600" you are talking about (sport/cruiser/standard) I'd argue that a 600 isn't best either. A lot of 600cc sport bikes have peaky power delivery and I'd argue that most cruisers handle unnecessarily like pigs with raked out front ends.

My first "road legal" bike was a Honda trail 90 that I was gifted by an uncle at age 14 for helping him build a garage one summer. That bike had a top speed of about 50mph heading down a road with downhill slope and I would NEVER recommend it as a first bike. Was it light? Yes. Was it overly Powerful? No. Was it cheap to fix if dropped? Yes. That seems to be the criteria most will throw around. Issue was, it was DANGEROUS as I had zero escapability on cars closing from the rear at much higher speeds and I was scared to death.

What I consider to be my first road bike was a 1983 Suzuki 650 Tempter gifted to me by my parents for Christmas during my freshman year of college.
[image: Posted Image]

I had saw the bike in my college town which wasn't too far from where I'd grown up. What I didn't know initially is that my father had already bought a Honda CB400 (I think) for me before I came home one day asking if he would "check out this bike I saw for sale". Story told, he bought the Suzi as well and told me to "pick" on Christmas. At that time the bike was about 15 years old and I recall the asking price being $600 so there was not much to lose on a sale when I was done with it.

In retrospect, the bike was perfect for me. I didn't have overwhelming power, but was capable of easily running 80 mph. It didn't handle as sharp as a sport bike would have, but allowed me to learn, and later admire how good sportbikes really are in the handling department. I rode the bike for about 18 months before selling it for $800.

Point is, if your mind is made up, go for it. Unlike some I will not write you off as a future death, but there are some cheaper avenues to learn on. What's better is that your dream bike (VFR DCT) will still be around and likely selling cheaper a year from now.

Whatever you deceide, HAVE FUN!

I'm with MattB on this. check Craigslist for an 80's UJM. Really nice ones can be had for little money. The tech was simple and the power delivery isn't over whelming. Ride it for a year or so sell it and then step into the 1200. Even though the 1200 has the DCT on it the power out of that motor can get away from even experienced riders. . . . Ask me how I know.

I came from scooters and my last bike was the Yamaha Tmax.
Better handling than most sport bikes in very tight corners. But, lacking in power.

Another option, would be the Aprilia Mana. Automatic and very nice from what I have heard from others that road it.

My Vote is for a Ninja 500 Parts didn't change for the most part in 20 years from 1989 to 2009. Power is not there on the 250 for a 250lbs rider. The stand over is around the same as a VFR a little lower maybe. Damn things are bullit proof and like many say you will get your money back out of it after your done learning. Its about 200 lbs lighter than the VFR1200. Was a daily commuter and put over 30k miles on the little buzzard with just tires and a chain and spark plugs.

Solid Learning bike and great off the line power. If you wanted to change the Gears up or down to make it have more grunt there is plenty of sprockets available for it too.

The Ninja 650, versys, and 6-en are all based off the 500 ninja just with up to date tech.

Three thoughts:

1. A lot of guys with expensive Harleys don't ride them because its too much work at their level of skill.
2. You won't learn the limits of an expensive bike heavy bike because you'll reinforce timid handling skills. You'll end up cheating yourself out of some accident avoidance skills.
3. If you can afford a DTC, don't buy one. Instead, buy a used scooter or older Japanese standard (CB350, etc) for 1k and a non-DTC VFR. You'll ride more overall and enjoy the VFR instead of fearing it.

Just because some of us started on scrappy bikes doesn't mean you have to. This isn't a "club" that requires that you earn your right to ride a nice bike. I think we all just want you to enjoy riding.

[image: View Post]bryanfor311, on 16 November 2011 - 08:51 PM, said:

Alot of people are trying to talk me out of it saying the 1200 would be too much bike for beginner and that I would ruin it. I would like some input from some of you on this topic. Being a 250 lb guy, I don't feel like buying a 600 and using it for a while only to resell it. When I make a purchase, I always know what I want, and plan to keep it.

Your never going to learn how to ride starting on a 1200, probably get run over first, even if you manage not to crash yourself. There's plenty here who began on vfr 800's and I wouldnt recommend it either for learning to ride.

Even a 600 other than point A to Point B , you'll have your hands full when Nature throws a wrench at your day.

There's really no short cuts learning how to ride, develope on a house of cards, add weight and power, just aggravates the whole situation.

Like you say, I dont want to buy a 600 and trade soon. Even those who buy 250's dont keep them long enough to learn to ride, before moving up. Thats usually the 6 month point, they've mastered Point A to Point B, and thats all they need to know.
I wouldnt even recommend a full street bike at all for a beginner, Id have em start on sub 350lb Dual sports or offroad bikes, lots more to learn on those than a full street bike, and will in a much shorter period of time.

But the beginning adult street rider is impatient, they think I can Jump to top dog and be okay if Im careful. Maybe They will be for a while, till they find out the Hard way they arent.


The adult street rider has a double wammy, little bike control knowledge and No understanding how to read the street, Thats why I call it the Double Wammy. Your better off learning how to ride a bike with alot of freedom of movement, before getting on a fixed position bike . #1 your going to be able to expand your Horisons, which is very good for a beginner to have acess to.

I wouldn't teach some one to drive a car in my Audi R8. OK, I don't have one either but just sayin'. I'm actually MORE curious as to why you would want the DCT over a manual - and to clarify that question - I'm not bashing DCTs in any fashion. I just think shifting on a bike or in a sports car is more fun, more "sporting". I have no use for a stick in my Mountaineer/mini van/Cherokee however all of my cars have been sticks and I wouldn't want it any other way. Just me maybe?

Ultimately it's your money, your decision. If you buy a VFR1200 DCT as a learner bike, you'll certainly be helping the local economy more so than buying a used 250.
But learning on a 1200 DCT is like learning to fly in an F18 fighter jet. I suppose you'll eventually get there but you may have to eject a few times along the way, hopefully you won't lose heart amidst the carnage along the way.

It hasn't been mentioned in this thread I don't think, but bike handling skills are best learned on a modest powered dirt bike, say a CRF150. Hell, Kenny Roberts teaches dirt track skills at his ranch on XR100's! This is the ONLY way to get comfortable with sliding both ends of the bike in a smooth controlled manner. If you don't know what it feels like to slide a bike (which is the norm in the dirt) you'll positively panic when you experience benign front or rear slippage on the street the first (or second or third) time. You will likely grab a ham fisted bunch of brakes while slightly leaned over when uncalled for and whoops down you go. The hefty weight of the VFR1200 just ensures it'll fall that much harder. Just hope there isn't traffic coming at you. I don't say this to rain on your parade, just speaking of what countless beginners have learned (the hard way) before. Good luck man.