Splitting Lanes... - OTHER Motorcycle Talk (non vfr)

...in the interest of Moto safety month.

http://m.mercurynews...ntguid=als8YvK4

It's legal, but not the way most of us do it.  Most folks are polite enough to move to one side of the lane.  It is also clear who pays attention to their rearview and who gets surprised by loud pipes.

In my cage, I'm occasionally startled, but I have never yanked the steering wheel and almost crashed into the next lane as I see some do.

Maybe CHP could post that lane splitting is legal on their lighted signs for a day once a month for a while to clue the public in............ And if they don't want to do that, maybe post that it's "Illigal" to block traffic that are splitting.........

Most of the people against it in CA are people who just moved in from other states and are not used to it and most of them as noted don't even know it is legal. That's the only reason it's even an issue with the media. It's not like there's a whole bunch of cars and bikes getting into accidents everyday because of lane splitting.
And yes, I've encountered stupid cage drivers who try to block lane splitting motorcyclist maybe because they feel envious they are stuck in dead stop traffic and cannot move forward like us bikers.
The bad thing is, I have read through the years that most CA LEOs (I think it was mostly City Biker columns) will place most responsibility for any lane splitting related accidents on the motorcyclist even though there could be evidence that a cage driver caused it either by inattention or malice. So it's not like the law over here really supports lane splitting, but I guess it has been legal here for so long that the LEOs and state politicians are afraid of the consequent protests from the motorcycle community if they try to make it illegal to lane split.

Beck
95 VFR

I asked about lane splitting while in my MRE class.  According to the instructor, while lane splitting is not illegal (and he was making the distinction between "not illegal" and "legal"), there are laws that would seem to be against it.  The only one I recall right now is something about control or right to your lane, which belongs to the cage.  Therefore, as it was explained to me, the rider assumes all responsibility.

[image: View Post]mk2davis, on 09 May 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

I asked about lane splitting while in my MRE class.  According to the instructor, while lane splitting is not illegal (and he was making the distinction between "not illegal" and "legal"), there are laws that would seem to be against it.  The only one I recall right now is something about control or right to your lane, which belongs to the cage.  Therefore, as it was explained to me, the rider assumes all responsibility.
There's is a law in all cases that says a person that has the right of way can not take the right of way knowing that there will be contact if it can be avoided.

The instructor was implying that the cage has the right of way.

*The above does not apply.  sorry Monk, helps if I read all of your words before I reply.

I think your statement depends on if the driver admits he knew you were there.  It seems like they would fall back on the typical "He came out of nowhere. . . "  When the information is presented like that, it seems like the rider would be liable.  It is my understanding that although are able to split lanes, that doesn't mean we have the right.  As long as we watch out for the idiots, we should be alright.
Edited by mk2davis, 09 May 2012 - 05:06 PM.

From http://www.chp.ca.go...ml/answers.html

Can motorcycle riders "split" lanes and ride between other vehicles?

Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and

prudent manner

I'm always safe and prudent

:wheel:

So you can, but if something happens then you shouldn't have.

[image: View Post]mk2davis, on 09 May 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

So you can, but if something happens then you shouldn't have.
Pretty much :wacko:

Yeah, we always are made to be the bad guy in most cases, no matter what.....that sucks!
Next thing you know they will try to recind car pool priviledges for motorcycles in CA. What next, No more aftermarket pipes? legal exclusion from gated communities, wearing knee pucks, No cruise control? No auxilliary lights of any sort, No HIDs? No aftermarket loud horns??.....where will it end if we let them take these things away from us??
Lots of anti-motorcycle elements out there and it definitely includes the LEOs. Heck, anyone remember that case in Marin County on the road to Stinson Beach some years ago where the CHP actually set up a bunches of riders all day by driving a pickup truck with a hidden camera in it really really slow in front of them then pounced on them when they passed out of frustration. Total setup and I think the CHP got away with it and got the charges and citations to stay. I guess they look at us as they look at people they catch in bait car stings and that's really low.

Beck
95 VFR

Safe and prudent in the eyes of the officer. I do it when traffic stops or goes slow. Why not?
It's my 2 wheeled traffic beater. :wheel:

I think we have it pretty good in California,  but as with any minority we have to stay vigilant and also police the idiots in our midst.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[image: View Post]Monk, on 09 May 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Maybe CHP could post that lane splitting is legal on their lighted signs for a day once a month for a while to clue the public in............ And if they don't want to do that, maybe post that it's "Illigal" to block traffic that are splitting.........

This is what we get for the month but I haven't seen them this year yet.

[image: index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=455] Share-the-road.jpg Album: B.A.R. pix Uploaded 14 Apr 2010 - 02:31

[image: View Post]bayarearider, on 09 May 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Monk, on 09 May 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Maybe CHP could post that lane splitting is legal on their lighted signs for a day once a month for a while to clue the public in............ And if they don't want to do that, maybe post that it's "Illigal" to block traffic that are splitting.........

This is what we get for the month but I haven't seen them this year yet.
That's cool..... better than nothing.........

[image: View Post]Beck, on 09 May 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

Yeah, we always are made to be the bad guy in most cases, no matter what.....that sucks!
Next thing you know they will try to recind car pool priviledges for motorcycles in CA. What next, No more aftermarket pipes? legal exclusion from gated communities, wearing knee pucks, No cruise control? No auxilliary lights of any sort, No HIDs? No aftermarket loud horns??.....where will it end if we let them take these things away from us??
Lots of anti-motorcycle elements out there and it definitely includes the LEOs. Heck, anyone remember that case in Marin County on the road to Stinson Beach some years ago where the CHP actually set up a bunches of riders all day by driving a pickup truck with a hidden camera in it really really slow in front of them then pounced on them when they passed out of frustration. Total setup and I think the CHP got away with it and got the charges and citations to stay. I guess they look at us as they look at people they catch in bait car stings and that's really low.

Beck
95 VFR

The gated community one did happen to me (almost) once.
A friend and I were riding north on a GL1100 on the PCH to the Bay Area after the 84' L.A. Olympics. I wanted to take him through 17 mile drive (Pebble Beach etc,). before we checked into our Hotel.
We were being turned away at Carmel Beach gate, when a female resident drove up and vouched for us saying we were there to visit her (never saw her before that moment)
It worked out nicely. We thanked her and proceeded on our tour.

I can only assume that previous groups of Hogs may have annoyed Residents to the point of banning all Moto's.
If you've ever driven that roadway you get it...

I lane-split for the first time ever today.  My bad, I got frustrated about a left-turn lineup.  All good, but if the light timing was different, I would have been the bad guy (and possibly hit).
I think I'll just wait next time.

From the CA DMV rule book:

http://www.dmv.ca.go...hr_slow_veh.htm

Follow these rules to respect the right-of-way and safely share the road with motorcyclists:

• Allow the motorcycle a full lane width. Although it is not illegal to share lanes with motorcycles, it is unsafe.
  
• Motorcycles may travel faster than traffic during congested road conditions and can legally travel in the unused space between two lines of moving or stationary vehicles; this is commonly called "lane splitting."

Isn't there something about not going more than 10mph faster than the flow ?

[image: View Post]Monk, on 09 May 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

Isn't there something about not going more than 10mph faster than the flow ?

There's no hard rule, the DMV motorcycle handbook mentions 'safely' splitting "lane sharing". It's left to the officer's judgement if you happen to find yourself in that situation. Setting a 10mph hard rule would mean 75mph is ok when traffic is going 65mph.

I think the key words are "safe and prudent manner".  When lane sharing, I assume the risks that someone will cross infront me or block my path.  It's up to me to make sure I'm safe and is seen by cagers.  If you don't lane share like a mad rider, most people will share the lane with you.  Yes, there are those that will try to block your path, but with anything we do there are always people like that.  I've never had any issues with Leo over lane sharing, even when riding next to one.  Also with any incident, it all depends on how the accident occured and if there are witnesses or not.  Many times, the damage to the vehicle will tell the Leo if the car cause the accident or the bike.

Yeah, I've been lane sharing in CA since '87 and never had a problem with LEOs or drivers.  Sure, there are jealous idiots, but I just go around them.  I remember rolling up on CHP this past weekend going a bit over the limit (not too much) and essentially lane sharing.  I checked the speedo and kept it moving.  No foul, no harm.

I do remember the 10mph guidance, but I don't see it anywhere in the law.  I used to only lane share on the Bay Bridge when it was total stuck.  Once I got used to it (and watching for the makeup, reading, texting cagers), I began doing it a higher speeds.  

I still believe the data supports it's much more dangerous to go through an intersection with a left turn lane than any lane sharing.  More of us lose it low-siding than lane sharing.

I only lane split when traffic is stopped or creeping.

Most folks give you room. Following a CHP thru on Interstate 15.
[image: Posted Image]

Much rather be between lanes than stopped at the end on the slab.

I like the British term for lane splitting .. "Filtering" eh whot, smashing bit of fun, cheerio!. |I have not split or filtered yet on the bike since the OEM hard bags look just way to wide to fit with any margin of safety. Sure enuf there are some (brave??) riders out there that will.

Last time I rode the line between lanes of stagnant end of long weekend traffic it was 50 miles on the 401 in Ontario, from Mossport Track to the Big Smoke on my Skinny Bonneville. That was bout 1967 and I was young and crazy, but apparently LUCKY.

[image: View Post]Suitcase, on 10 May 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

I have not split or filtered yet on the bike since the OEM hard bags look just way to wide to fit with any margin of safety.
The width of the OEM cases is less or equal to that of the mirrors isn't it? I have a couple of 45L givi side cases that are about 10cm wider (overall) than the mirrors and with teh cases on I really have to remember not to ride within inches of other traffic while filtering.

[image: Posted Image]

Here filtering is allowed and as like anything while movinf in traffic, must be done in a safe and prudent way. There is sort of a code that decribes what safe and prudent means here: the other traffic is not moving faster than 40km/h and you are not riding faster than 10km/h compared to the other traffic. A friend of mine was once hit when filtering by a car that suddenly changed lanes. Other cagers testified hee was filtering in a safe manner and the cager was held responsible for all the damages.

[image: View Post]Suitcase, on 10 May 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

I have not split or filtered yet on the bike since the OEM hard bags look just way to wide to fit with any margin of safety. Sure enuf there are some (brave??) riders out there that will.

I was following a Kawi Concours yesterday filtering in front of me, he had the full bags on both sides. At one point I pulled in to an empty slot since it looked too tight...he just kept going like it was a clear road ahead.. hmmph.

 vfrcapn, on 11 May 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

 Suitcase, on 10 May 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

I have not split or filtered yet on the bike since the OEM hard bags look just way to wide to fit with any margin of safety. Sure enuf there are some (brave??) riders out there that will.

I was following a Kawi Concours yesterday filtering in front of me, he had the full bags on both sides. At one point I pulled in to an empty slot since it looked too tight...he just kept going like it was a clear road ahead.. hmmph.

On my big bike the mirrors are much wider than the bags....so it is easier to figure out if you can fit.  Actually my Wings bags are two inches narrower than my VFR addons.

Lane splitting is much safer IMO and also according to a few studies , here in NC its not illegal but if your caught they will slap you with a reckless driving and fight you to the death to make sure it sticks (ask me how i know...) it sucks around here because cagers are still allowed to chat away on their phones while driving (and no offense but the people of NC dont seem to grasp the core basics of driving..) and they really dont pay attention, theres alot of rear end collisions around her. so theres a good chance if it were really legal here it could save lives, then again if it were legal Im sure we'd have a slew of ghostrider wanna be's ruining it for the rest of us.

[image: View Post]nutball, on 13 May 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

Lane splitting is much safer IMO and also according to a few studies , here in NC its not illegal but if your caught they will slap you with a reckless driving and fight you to the death to make sure it sticks (ask me how i know...) it sucks around here because cagers are still allowed to chat away on their phones while driving (and no offense but the people of NC dont seem to grasp the core basics of driving..) and they really dont pay attention, theres alot of rear end collisions around her. so theres a good chance if it were really legal here it could save lives, then again if it were legal Im sure we'd have a slew of ghostrider wanna be's ruining it for the rest of us.

That's basically it.  There are those recessive gene toters out there that ruin many things for those who have (and use) a bit of sense.  We all know most drivers enjoy the lack of alertness necessary to operate a cage "successfully."  They get suckered into the safety of the cage and begin doing all manner of things instead of actually the task at hand.  

Motorcyclists aren't immune from the disease, but for most, part of the joy is reaching the state of relaxed alertness.  

Frankly, I yearn for a society where getting on the road was only for kicks and public transportation was preferred for daily transportation.

we had a CHP in the shop a while back getting a tire put on. While he was there another customer mentioned that he couldnt believe lane splitting was legal. CHP guy said that its a self policing activity, those who can do it safely split with no drama. Those who cant either get hit or much more likely, stay in the regular traffic pattern. He assured the questioner that its legal because its not a problem, way way WAY more accidents from inattention, inability or impairment. By his estimation, less than 10% of riders split anyway.

Ive got to say, I've split for years without incident. Its not without risk but if done reasonably seems perfectly within my skills. People who dont spit tell me that it feels like the cars are closing in on them and they have nowhere to go. I feel like there is a whole lane worth of space between the cars. Just enough speed to make things smooth (traffic speed plus 5-10 depending on the setting) watch the drivers carefully and keep your head up and moving.

and just for shits and giggles, stock quiet pipes (until my used erion gets here at least) no blinking headlights, and normal colored gear. Ive got a loud piaa horn but its rarely used.