Not the way to spend a Saturday - NOW an R&R thread.... - Fifth Generation VFR's

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Well, here ya go...
It was not the way I was planning to spend my Saturday on the holiday
All things considered, about 3-hours wasted
I will say this though, the guy who came to save me was a biker, and he knew what he was doing
It would have been nicer if the straps going around the rear wheel were cleaner, or if I had an extra rag with me, but other than wiping off some of the dirt, it looks like there was no other effect

Electrical system failure, and yes, the 1st thing I thought of was oh chit, I have been taken out by the R&R...

Here is how the day went, started the bike to get the oil warm,  did an oil and filter change, removed the other fairing and did some cleaning. Put it all back together and started it up to check the oil level, shut it off, started it up again a few minutes later to move it. Got dressed, started it up again and set out to run some errands. Every single time it acted the same, turn the key, lights all on, fuel pump primed, push button, bike runs, no drama, no delay, all systems normal.

Rode about 8-miles, ran into the store for a few minutes, came out, turned the key, all good, all normal, pushed the button, bike starts, then dies, I turn the key off, then back on, and nothing, no dash display, no lights, no fuel pump, nothing, nothing at all. The only thing showing in the digital display is the time, and now it's wrong. WTF!!!

I pull the seat, check all the fuses, all lookes just fine. I tried several more times to get it started but nothing, no lights, no power, nothing, the weird thing was, if I held in the start button, praying for a miracle, eventually the digital display would come alive, but not enough power to make the fuel pump run.

Nothing left to do but call AAA and get towed home...

I called my great local VFR buddy, he is also a fellow S2000 buddy, he's here as Conedodger. I told him my saga and he said, replace the battery, then talk to me. Seemed odd, battery has been acting just fine, but what the heck.

I put the battery on the charger for 24-hours, but it back into the bike, and it was better, still not enough power to bring up the fuel pump, but enough to bring up the digital display. Ok, battery theory looking likely. Also thanks tyo Cone, I was able to find a Battery Plus store, open on Monday, that had a battery.

I put the new battery in, and immediately, no more problem, bike works just fine, digital display, lights, fuel pump, started up just fine. Again, WTF??? I have never had a bike battery go from fine to dead in a matter of a second. The old battery was dead, and I mean dead, the Battery Plus store put it on their meter and it was outputting just about nothing, and I mean just about nothing, it was deader than dead.

Althoiugh I wanted to get more miles in this weekend, I was at least able to get in about 70 on Monday afternoon.

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Edited by TripleH, 31 May 2012 - 09:02 AM.

Wow.  Sorry for your bad luck.  Glad it was just the battery.  Looks as though you had at least one neat destination....is that last photo a chapel in a cemetery?  Very cool.  One of my goals is to ride over to Springfield, IL this summer to visit Lincoln's tomb.  I think cemetery's are fascinating places....does that make me a wierdo?   :smile:

check your charging system, stat.

but ya, batteries can just... die.

[image: View Post]TripleH, on 29 May 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

I put the new battery in, and immediately, no more problem, bike works just fine, digital display, lights, fuel pump, started up just fine. Again, WTF??? I have never had a bike battery go from fine to dead in a matter of a second. The old battery was dead, and I mean dead, the Battery Plus store put it on their meter and it was outputting just about nothing, and I mean just about nothing, it was deader than dead.


Pretty much what happened to Muff setting out for TMac, except he was near a hill and could bump it into life.  Rode home, bought new battery, rode to TMac.

Glenn

Wow that is not a very friendly failure mode for a battery.  What brand of battery did that to you??

Is it possible your stator isn't pushing enough juice to keep the battery charged?  Hope it was just a battery.

[image: View Post]dirtbag, on 29 May 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

check your charging system, stat.
but ya, batteries can just... die.

Yup, got to get the bike in for my annual inspection, and plan to have that checked then, good suggestion

The battery is at least 3-4 years old, and maybe, a whole lot older that that
I bought the VFR in 2010 so this is my 3rd season, and I honestly don't know how old it was when I got the bike

And as far as batteries not being able to just die, well, that's not entirely true, I had a large capacity battery in my brand new full size pickup, just die, one second fine, next second not. It was not even a year old, it was replaced under warranty. Not common I know, but not impossible.

[image: View Post]IndyFour, on 29 May 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Looks as though you had at least one neat destination....is that last photo a chapel in a cemetery?  Very cool.  One of my goals is to ride over to Springfield, IL this summer to visit Lincoln's tomb.  I think cemetery's are fascinating places....does that make me a wierdo?   :smile:

Exactly, chapel in cemetary
I rode past and noticed it, then got to thinking, hey, that could be a cool shot
I took it with my phone so my crop is not great
The funny thing is, the black thing in the lawn in front of the bike is my tank bag, I took it off the bike so it would not be in the pic, and it ended up in the pic anyways.....

Well if you are a weirdo, then so am I
Cemetaries are one of my most popular stopping points
Every little town has one, every one has big trees and shade
I can't tell you the number of times I have ridden through a town and checked for 2 things before stopping, a deli for a sub, a cemetary for shade and peace and quiet so I can eat the sub :)

[image: View Post]rdguy, on 29 May 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

[image: View Post]TripleH, on 29 May 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

I put the new battery in, and immediately, no more problem, bike works just fine, digital display, lights, fuel pump, started up just fine. Again, WTF??? I have never had a bike battery go from fine to dead in a matter of a second. The old battery was dead, and I mean dead, the Battery Plus store put it on their meter and it was outputting just about nothing, and I mean just about nothing, it was deader than dead.

Pretty much what happened to Muff setting out for TMac, except he was near a hill and could bump it into life.  Rode home, bought new battery, rode to TMac.
Glenn

I thought about that, but just was not sure it would work with the fuel injection
Maybe I should have at least tried, oh well

[image: View Post]MarkDetroit, on 29 May 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Wow that is not a very friendly failure mode for a battery.  What brand of battery did that to you??

It was called Bike Master

A battery just dying like that may indicate issues with the charging system.
I wouldn't take any long trips until you check out all the components.
This site has guides.

Good luck.

[image: View Post]IndyFour, on 29 May 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Looks as though you had at least one neat destination....is that last photo a chapel in a cemetery?  Very cool.  One of my goals is to ride over to Springfield, IL this summer to visit Lincoln's tomb.  I think cemetery's are fascinating places....does that make me a wierdo?   :smile:

This is about as good as I can get this pic, it just came from my phone, but a few minutes in photoshop helped it out or sure

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[image: View Post]TripleH, on 29 May 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

[image: View Post]IndyFour, on 29 May 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Looks as though you had at least one neat destination....is that last photo a chapel in a cemetery?  Very cool.  One of my goals is to ride over to Springfield, IL this summer to visit Lincoln's tomb.  I think cemetery's are fascinating places....does that make me a wierdo?   :smile:

Exactly, chapel in cemetary
I rode past and noticed it, then got to thinking, hey, that could be a cool shot
I took it with my phone so my crop is not great
The funny thing is, the black thing in the lawn in front of the bike is my tank bag, I took it off the bike so it would not be in the pic, and it ended up in the pic anyways.....

Well if you are a weirdo, then so am I
Cemetaries are one of my most popular stopping points
Every little town has one, every one has big trees and shade
I can't tell you the number of times I have ridden through a town and checked for 2 things before stopping, a deli for a sub, a cemetary for shade and peace and quiet so I can eat the sub :)

Yeah, they are quiet and peaceful places for sure.  I know a guy who traveled across the US on a bicycle several years back and he told me once that he almost always camped in cemeterys....they were quiet, off the beaten path, and most importantly, FREE.  Not sure I would camp in one, but they are fun to visit.

^ Too funny, I suspect sleeping in one would be tough for me, my imagination would get the best of me...

[image: View Post]Rice, on 29 May 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

A battery just dying like that may indicate issues with the charging system.
I wouldn't take any long trips until you check out all the components.
This site has guides.

Good luck.

When it happened to me, Glen and I looked over the connections and the battery was over three years old anyway

I have to confess, I don't think I have ever had a bike battery last more than 3-4 years
And that's with me pulling them inside for the winter, and puttle them on a tricle charger every three weeks
I bet this one was more like 4-5

When my R/R went tits-up in Dec 09 (20K miles) it was pretty much the same story: no warning. I rode the bike about 20 miles to pick up some parts. When I came home I pulled into my neighbor's driveway for about 10min, and when I went to restart it it was stone dead. R/R connector was fried, and the battery was toast. I replaced the battery with a good AGM, upgraded the wiring, and installed a new R/R.

Last June the viffergyrl, and I went on a week long trip to NorCal. I installed a new stator (among other things 40K service)), and load tested the battery before we left. It tested fine. By the time we got to SF it was turning over slow, and resetting the clock on warm start ups. Fortunately there was a Batteries Plus just a few blocks from the hotel that night. Swapped it right on the sidewalk in downtown SF. Been fine since. Yeah bike batteries can just die. Especially the VFR. Look where it lives!

At least I avoided the tow fees.

Electrical issues on a trip are not much fun.  I had voltage drop three times on my recent trip during startup where the dash went black and clock reset.  But then it was starting normally.  I bought a multimeter.  Every time I tested, it looked normal. Now that I'm home it's a better place to do some troubleshooting and figure out what is happening with the bike.  Certainly reduced the number of stops and the locations I was willing to stop - didn't want to risk having the bike dead in the middle of nowhere.

Looks like your tow truck came well equipped.  The last time I had my bike on a tow truck there was no wheel chock as shown in your picture - had to take the bike up the slant unsupported.  Added a lot to the stress for me!

As for cemeterys - I like them as well.  Great places for pictures.  Really fascinating to look at the ones in the southern states like Louisiana where many crypts are above ground.  Works of art!

I had a battery die when I stopped for gas once. With a Yamaha I had before the VFR.
It had been doing fine. Shut it off, pumped gas, tried to start and it was dead.
Would not even push start. I found a shop nearby and walked over a couple blocks or so to get a new battery.
Put it in and it was fine. People at the gas station were useless.
So yeah, batteries can just die. :unsure:

While Ive not ran a battery to failure on the VFR, I replace them when I noticed their cranking amp has degraded, normally this is detected at refuleing stations. It gets to were it doesnt quite crank as strongly thats the SIGN.

Typically sometime around that 42,000/ 45,000 mile mark has been the average, where I start to see the degrade of cranking turn over speed. Im on the 3rd battery on the VFR.

I knew when I left home for TMac that my battery would die on the trip.  I just figured it would happen on a cool morning in the motel lot. No, it waited until we had ridden into GA.  Stopped to consult about our directions and wouldn't restart. Got lucky and found a battery about a mile and a half away. Broke my own rule of never riding on the back of a motorcycle that day but I now have a memory none of you will likely get....I got to ride "with" Dutchy. :wink:

Bike shop taking me in today at 4:00 ish for my state inspection, and an electrical system checkup

[image: View Post]Sweeper, on 29 May 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

I knew when I left home for TMac that my battery would die on the trip.

You got bigger balls than I do...

Battery death (like people) comes in many ways.  One way is a slow death where the battery shows signs of failure in a slow turning starter and maybe weak lights etc.

The other form of death, like the kind that happened to my last 2 batteries, was instantaneous.  Hit the starter and a slight click then nothin'.

The battery open circuits internally.  The surge of starting current does the trick.  It is when the most demand is placed On the battery and it calls it quits.

There is still a small amount of current passing through the electrolyte between the open terminals and just enough to keep the clock on but nothing more.

The first time it happened to me was 750 miles from home while up in N.J. and talking to a Harley friend I just happened to see while he was walking along the sidewalk.  He asked me why I still rode "that VFR" and not a Harley and I told him I needed a bike I could rely on to keep going.  We barbed each other for a while and then I hit the starter. --------  DEAD   --------

After eating crow, and troubleshooting the problem to the battery, he put me in his car and took me to Sears where I picked up a Di-Hard.

[image: View Post]TripleH, on 30 May 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Sweeper, on 29 May 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

I knew when I left home for TMac that my battery would die on the trip.

You got bigger balls than I do...

You are not wrong......



How scary is this?




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:tour:

[image: View Post]Dutchy, on 30 May 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

[image: View Post]TripleH, on 30 May 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Sweeper, on 29 May 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

I knew when I left home for TMac that my battery would die on the trip.

You got bigger balls than I do...
You are not wrong......

:tour:

Too funny!

Where exactly is the R&R located on my GEN5?

Bike shop said stator ok, R&R needs to be replaced.

Under the tail on the left side of the subframe.
Edited by MBrane, 30 May 2012 - 05:56 PM.

What do you guys think of this R&R mounting idea???

Here is a still from the video

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He takes the new R&R, mounts it to a 0.25" plate of aluminum and then mounts that to the bike. His theory is the aluminum connected to the frame creates a very large heat sink to help dissapate the heat

Thoughts?

Worth the effort? I can do this very easily, but doing any type of re-wiring regardless of how simple someone tries to make me believe it is to do, will not happen, I will not do electrical, that's just the way it is. This heat sink though is not electrical, and I would do if it would help
Edited by TripleH, 31 May 2012 - 09:18 AM.