Wanting to buy - 2000 5th gen - Fifth Generation VFR's

Hello,

I try to buy the bike off from a dealer with engine and tranny warranty for a year. The bike comes from Italy and it seems to have had only one owner. It has 48130 km on the clock
The fork retainer on the frame is a bit chewed on the left side and that is my only sign that it's been slammed on the left. I checked the fairings and the paint looks original and there are no signs of plastic welding on the inside.

The problems are:

- when I let go off the handlebars and leave the engine slow down by itself in 4th gear, the front end starts a gentle tank slapper. The problem was at 50-60 kmh and at anything above 70kmh was horrible. I was recalled after a few days after they changed the front weel bearings only and tightened the front fork bearings, and that translated in a gentle tank slapper that eventually settles itself as speed decreses and doesn't turn into the actual tank slapper. The tires are dot 2007 and 2006, the front wheel seems resprayed and there are no signs of the curvature being affected.

- on a level ground, the bike on its center stand touches the rear wheel on the ground. I spotted a triangle similar to this one: http://www.vfrdiscus...4_564_46544.jpg but from what I recall it didn't have the holes in it. Could it be that the bike is lowered? How can I tell? I would need a picture to compare what Is seen on the actual unmodified bike with what I have on this one.

- the right (or left, I don't remember) front disc holder (golden part) has a bent arm, he sais it's from a forgotten disc lock


Now, the dealer told me he has yet to change the oil in the forks, the steering bearings and the front disk. Would any of this help fix the problem? Of all of the issues, he agreed to get me another disc, new fork oil, new steering bearings,  practically anything that is neccesary to fix the tank slap before I slam the cash, without an extra charge.
All except for changing the tires. But I believe I have him by the balls and can ask for a discount on new tires, at least.

What do you guys think? I am also quite concerned on the center stand issue. Could it be frame damage or modifications brought to the centerstand or bike ride height?

PS: Any things that you see fishy in the pictures, might help me in the long run. Unfortunately, no passenger cowl which I can see it's quite hard to come by.

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Edited by nemuro, 12 June 2012 - 12:25 PM.

The bike could be rebuilt from a wreck.  Plastics could be replacements from Honda or Chinese aftermarket.  On center stand the rear wheel should be off the ground.  If it is on the ground the ride height in the rear could be raised which could cause the tank slapper problem.  Also bent frame, wheel, or forks could change the steering geometry.  Bad front tire can cause wheel wobble.

From what you've described, it sounds like the bike's geometry has been incorrectly altered, whether by inexpert lowering, or from an accident (possibly both events occurred).  Changing the steering bearings *may* have a positive impact, but I suspect not, assuming the dealer accurately tensioned the current bearings prior to any handlebar back and forth.  Unless and until the bike handled properly under deceleration, I would not buy that bike, new tires, or not.

First off I don't think you can buy aftermarket fairings in that colour of blue so I don't think that has changed.
Check the lower triple clamp and the steering stops on the frame, if they are straight check to see if the fork seals are leaking. If all looks good there at least the frond end is not bent and you should be able to cure the wobble issue.

Any tips on the places I should look for the frame having a bend that could cause "lowering" the bike? I will also pay attention to the arrows on the triang to see if someone fiddled around with it.

How many cm off the ground should the wheel be lifted by the centerstand?


@maxredline,
Thanks for the reply, I remember checking the seals, they are fine.
The steering stops are the ones I was talking about when I said the left one is chewed a bit from the slam. I believe checking their alignment would be a good start.
Edited by nemuro, 12 June 2012 - 04:24 PM.

A photo of the rear shock linkage and the triple clamps should shed some light on a previous owner lowering the bike.

I had a friend that ran some Bridgestone BT-014's on his bike and hands off it would start tank slapping on deceleration.  It didn't do that with the OEM Dunlops and Z-6's he had on before that, nor the tires he put on after wearing out the 014's.

I measured two 5th gens on their center stands; they are approximately 1 3/8 (one and three-eighths) inches off the pavement. Sorry, I do not have a metric measurement device.

Well, that's bad. The lowering kit from what I've read here, can lower your bike by 3/4" not by one and 3 eights.

From what you wrote I can smell the rotten fish of my 20" screen.........

It boils down to price, risk and how BAD you want THIS one..
You test rode it, it handled horrible.
Walk away.
Tell the dealer you will test ride it again after he fixed the issue.
Gambling is done in a casino.....

You think you have him by the short and curly's, but be aware you may look at this through rose tinted glasses (VFR's are objects of desire).
There must be other VFR's for sale in RO.

Have a look at this large german site and look for VFR's in the south of Germany.
http://www.autoscout24.de/
(probably too expensive since I know what the salary costs are in RO compared to western Europa).


Good luck (should you decide to gamble)

The price is currently at 2400 euro , a fraction over 3000 USD. If that makes any difference. Thanks for the advice guys. Appreciate it.

Perhaps the fork tubes are positioned lower in the triple clamps than normal.

If the front end is raised wouldn't this leave the rear tire closer to ground when the bike is on the centerstand?

Have you verified that both tires of the correct size? Front: 120/70-17? Rear: 180/55-17? If not, this could make a difference...as could the brand of tire. I've learned over the years that some tire brands and models can cause my Honda ST1100 to produce a hands off the bars wobble on deceleration (Metzeler's in particular).  

Did you sense any pulsation when the brakes are applied? If so, warped rotors could also cause a wobble similar to what you've described. I've never been able to achieve a smooth balance in the front wheel of My Triumph Speed Triple, and still wonder if a slightly warped rotor (which can be clearly felt under braking at low speeds) might be why.

In any case the wobble and (especially) damage to the fork stops you described would give me pause. So I agree you should tell the dealer to call you after they've fixed the problem. Also, have you confirmed they would provide a one-year warranty? Here in the U.S. after the factory warranty has expired for a dealer to offer more than a 30-day warranty on a used motorcyle would be unusual.
Edited by smoothsailin, 13 June 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[image: View Post]smoothsailin, on 13 June 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Perhaps the fork tubes are positioned lower in the triple clamps than normal.

If the front end is raised wouldn't this leave the rear tire closer to ground when the bike is on the centerstand?
If they've dropped the forks (raising the front end), it will be easy to see.  The clip-ons should go all the way down on the fork tube and have a hair of tube sticking up past the clip-on ring.  If they've dropped them, the fork tubes will be recessed in the clip-on.  I think you would have noticed that, because it just doesn't look right to have clip-ons barely clinging to the forks.  If for whatever reason, somebody did do that, it would make the rear tire sit closer to the ground while on the center stand.  It would make the bike handle poorly too, assuming they didn't shim up the rear to match it.

@smoothsailin Good idea to check on the fork tube position. If the bike was lowered, it's quite bad to me, a sportier position than this would take a little to get used to. I come from a kawasaki zr7.
Good idea to check the tire dimensions, I am ashamed I didn't look at that firs thing.
No pulsation on the brakes, I checked for that.
The service offers warranty for all except consumable parts ( oil, fluids, etc ) if you do all revisions at their place and their fares.

[image: View Post]tbzep, on 12 June 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

A photo of the rear shock linkage and the triple clamps should shed some light on a previous owner lowering the bike.
The only way I could take those pictures was to buy it. So guess what I did.

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Attached are the pictures of the linkage. Any advice on what I can do to unlower it would help. With other tires, the wobble would go away. I was going to change these antique tires anyway. I checked the arrow on the triangle and it is pointing forwards as it should. The back tire is 180 by 55 as it should be.

Thank you!

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Edited by nemuro, 14 June 2012 - 01:16 PM.

The forks look like they've been dropped, at least compared to my 6th gen.  Maybe it's just the camera angle. Without going out to the garage and looking, the dogbone seems a little long.   Somebody with a 5th gen should be along shortly that can tell you for sure.
Edited by tbzep, 14 June 2012 - 08:16 PM.

On the rear triangle there should be an arrow etched in. The normal position is for it to be at the top pointing towards the front of the bike. If it's in another position that indicates someone rotated the triangle to lower the rear of the bike.

But, the rear wheel touching the ground seems to show someone raised the rear, either by shimming the shock at the top mount or installing a longer shock, or drastically lowering the front. From your picture I don't see the front was lowered much if at all. I have a longer shock/linkage and my rear wheel still touches the ground on the center stand.

My guess would be it needs new steering stem bearings and new tires. My '99 would always wobble on deceleration with Bridgestone tires, more when the tires started to wear. Since I switched to Michelin Pilot Powers I've had no wobble even when the tires were completely used up. Have them replace the bearings and tires and I would bet it's good.

Update. The rear shock seems to be an actual Ohlins. Lucky me. Maybe it happened to be of a different length than the OEM one.

You got an ohlins with that? So lucky.