4th gen Yamaha R1 front bearing failure

I have an 07 Yamaha R1 fork set installed on a 96 VFR, the L front bearing failed after about 600 miles.  I think  I got them from all balls. I installed the bearings w/o the seals that came with the bearings since they are the sealed kind.  The bearings were pressed in, with the OE spacers and my 2mm washers on each side, everything appeared to line up nicely so what would cause this premature failure on the L bearing?

Thanks

Maybe not using the dust seals? Don't know, I've never used their wheel bearings.
The center spacer should be just barely touching, so that you can still move it with your finger. Otherwise the center race can be off center and cause failure.
Not sure what you mean when you say 2mm washers. Is that part of the spacer set? Or how you pressed the bearings in? If you put any pressure on the inner racer while installing them, that can damage them. Driver or press should only contact the outer race of the bearing.  
I assembled my front end without a wheel while it was out for powder coating. Just to see it, really. The outer spacers should touch the inner races, and the races should touch the center spacer. All without moving the inner races off center. That should all be locked in, allowing only the bearings and outer races to turn.

[image: View Post]KPerham, on 29 June 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Maybe not using the dust seals? Don't know, I've never used their wheel bearings.
The center spacer should be just barely touching, so that you can still move it with your finger. Otherwise the center race can be off center and cause failure.
Not sure what you mean when you say 2mm washers. Is that part of the spacer set? Or how you pressed the bearings in? If you put any pressure on the inner racer while installing them, that can damage them. Driver or press should only contact the outer race of the bearing.  
I assembled my front end without a wheel while it was out for powder coating. Just to see it, really. The outer spacers should touch the inner races, and the races should touch the center spacer. All without moving the inner races off center. That should all be locked in, allowing only the bearings and outer races to turn.

  I attached a photo of the spacers I had made, 2mm thick.
On my hub the bearing is pressed in until bottoms out, the the spacers on each side are just touching and can be rotated with no seals installed.

[image: Posted Image]

Maybe the L side bearing was not pressed home far enough and the spacer ended up hitting the inner race too much.

[image: View Post]KPerham, on 29 June 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Maybe not using the dust seals? Don't know, I've never used their wheel bearings.
The center spacer should be just barely touching, so that you can still move it with your finger. Otherwise the center race can be off center and cause failure.
Not sure what you mean when you say 2mm washers. Is that part of the spacer set? Or how you pressed the bearings in? If you put any pressure on the inner racer while installing them, that can damage them. Driver or press should only contact the outer race of the bearing.  
I assembled my front end without a wheel while it was out for powder coating. Just to see it, really. The outer spacers should touch the inner races, and the races should touch the center spacer. All without moving the inner races off center. That should all be locked in, allowing only the bearings and outer races to turn.

I did the front wheel bearings on my 4th gen.  I found that prior to taking the bearings out that the centre spacer on the wheel was not touching the bearings, but was slightly loose, leaving the bearings to turn without any resistance.  And that was how I installed the new bearings, with the centre spacer slightly loose.  I have put 1500 miles on the bike since, and the bearings are fine, and the bike handles well.   Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that when the axle is tightened up that the bearings press onto the centre spacer, and they all turn, because if that is the case, how come I found that the spacer was slightly loose in the wheel?

[image: View Post]JIMLARCH, on 29 June 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

[image: View Post]KPerham, on 29 June 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Maybe not using the dust seals? Don't know, I've never used their wheel bearings.
The center spacer should be just barely touching, so that you can still move it with your finger. Otherwise the center race can be off center and cause failure.
Not sure what you mean when you say 2mm washers. Is that part of the spacer set? Or how you pressed the bearings in? If you put any pressure on the inner racer while installing them, that can damage them. Driver or press should only contact the outer race of the bearing.  
I assembled my front end without a wheel while it was out for powder coating. Just to see it, really. The outer spacers should touch the inner races, and the races should touch the center spacer. All without moving the inner races off center. That should all be locked in, allowing only the bearings and outer races to turn.

I did the front wheel bearings on my 4th gen.  I found that prior to taking the bearings out that the centre spacer on the wheel was not touching the bearings, but was slightly loose, leaving the bearings to turn without any resistance.  And that was how I installed the new bearings, with the centre spacer slightly loose.  I have put 1500 miles on the bike since, and the bearings are fine, and the bike handles well.   Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that when the axle is tightened up that the bearings press onto the centre spacer, and they all turn, because if that is the case, how come I found that the spacer was slightly loose in the wheel?

I should probably bring this up at the R1 forum, I don't have a center spacer, one photo in the R1 service manual shows one and another photo omits it. If this thing requires a center spacer to go in the hub and between the wheel bearings that't probably my problem.

I don't know about R1's, but VFR's do have center spacer and are needed.

I may be wrong, but I think that's universal. When it all gets tightened down, it all locks in together as one unit.
If its only a Honda thing, then I'll address that:
There can be some play in the center spacer, but when the axle gets tightened you don't want the inner race pushed too far in (If there is too much play) or have the center spacer pushing the inner race out (If the center spacer is tight).
Also, do use the dust seals.

I didn't use All Balls wheel bearings, but they do have a really usefull diagram on their website detailing the whole center spacer/ inner race thing.
Give it a look see.

[image: View Post]KPerham, on 29 June 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

I didn't use All Balls wheel bearings, but they do have a really usefull diagram on their website detailing the whole center spacer/ inner race thing.
Give it a look see.

thanks will do

If you are missing the center spacer inside the wheel, between the bearings, that is definetly your culprit.

The wheel bearings cannot stand any side loading, which is what will happen when you tighten the axle without a center spacer between the bearings.

Get the correct one for your year of R-1 wheel, and replace BOTH front bearings, as the other one has already been run sideloaded, and probably will fail soon.

As well, I would use all the supplied wheel dust seals and bearing grease seals, to keep crud out of where it's not supposed to be.

OK that makes sense, no center spacer too much bearing side load, the local dealer actually has the part,

Thanks

OMG every wheel has a center spacer between the bearings & there just as important as the bearing itself. You are very lucky your front wheel didn't suffer a major failure without the spacer inside wheel between the bearings. When you tighten axle you are clamping the wheel to the LHS fork & with no spacer between bearings you are actually clamping the bearing adding major side loading to the races & the only thing holding the balls from falling out with that side load force is the small grove in races the balls run in. Surely you noticed your front wheel was very hard to turn & didn't spin freely.
Quick explanation, wheel housing locates bearing outside race & wheel center position due to bearing location, wheel bearing internal spacer (spacer inside wheel) that axle sides through between bearings locates bearing inner race & is what the clamping force is applied to when you tighten axle to forks.

You are a very lucky person it all held together & really your only saving grace was probably the bearings were so new.

I'm not levelling this directly at the OP & have mentioned this in other threads, it is all well & good to do mechanical work on your ride with advise from internet forums but it can be risky when there are areas people just don't have the mechanical background to understand the mechanics of what there doing especially when modifying. When attempting such things people need to go to parts schematics of every part there attempting to use & make sure there setups have same assembly configuration even if you need to modify the configuration to fit what modification your doing. For example with my setup using a RC51 wheel with CBR1000RR forks I had to change out wheel bearings to fit CBR1000RR thicker axle, bore out internal spacer locator to fit larger CBR1000RR internal bearing spacer & machine length of CBR1000RR internal bearing spacer due to longer length than RC51 spacer. I'm not a lic mechanic but am a fitter by trade plus other trades so understand such stuff that can't be conveyed on forums it is a working knowledge to understand what is needed. I'm expressing this because I don't want anybody to injure themselves because they attempt these sort of modifications just because they read an how to, on the internet. VFRD is a family & any forum member that suffers an injury or worse is felt by the whole community so please people take care.

[image: View Post]zRoYz, on 29 June 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

OMG every wheel has a center spacer between the bearings & there just as important as the bearing itself. You are very lucky your front wheel didn't suffer a major failure without the spacer inside wheel between the bearings. When you tighten axle you are clamping the wheel to the LHS fork & with no spacer between bearings you are actually clamping the bearing adding major side loading to the races & the only thing holding the balls from falling out with that side load force is the small grove in races the balls run in. Surely you noticed your front wheel was very hard to turn & didn't spin freely.
Quick explanation, wheel housing locates bearing outside race & wheel center position due to bearing location, wheel bearing internal spacer (spacer inside wheel) that axle sides through between bearings locates bearing inner race & is what the clamping force is applied to when you tighten axle to forks.

You are a very lucky person it all held together & really your only saving grace was probably the bearings were so new.

I'm not levelling this directly at the OP & have mentioned this in other threads, it is all well & good to do mechanical work on your ride with advise from internet forums but it can be risky when there are areas people just don't have the mechanical background to understand the mechanics of what there doing especially when modifying. When attempting such things people need to go to parts schematics of every part there attempting to use & make sure there setups have same assembly configuration even if you need to modify the configuration to fit what modification your doing. For example with my setup using a RC51 wheel with CBR1000RR forks I had to change out wheel bearings to fit CBR1000RR thicker axle, bore out internal spacer locator to fit larger CBR1000RR internal bearing spacer & machine length of CBR1000RR internal bearing spacer due to longer length than RC51 spacer. I'm not a lic mechanic but am a fitter by trade plus other trades so understand such stuff that can't be conveyed on forums it is a working knowledge to understand what is needed. I'm expressing this because I don't want anybody to injure themselves because they attempt these sort of modifications just because they read an how to, on the internet. VFRD is a family & any forum member that suffers an injury or worse is felt by the whole community so please people take care.

Well said.

The Italian Stallion has:
4 wiring diagrams and
5 service manuals, one photo in the R1 manual had no spacer in the front hub
but I did find the relevant photo with spacer after consulting the the pros around here, thanks