30 min fork oil change- On bike

Actually I was changing out comp. & rebound valves, but no reason you couldn't use this method for the same or just a quick oil change. :beer:

Click on any pic to enlarge!

First off place bike on center stand and place a jack under the front of the exhaust headers and unload the front wheel(off ground).

Then remove the axle (I did not remove the calipers or wheel)

Place a drain pan under the fork leg (I suggest only doing one side at a time) and remove the bolt in the bottom of the fork leg that holds the dampen rod assy.

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Some oil will drain at this point, now remove fork cap and allow the remaining oil to drain.

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Now you can remove the entire cartridge assy. (Note these are F4i forks on my track Vtec)

[image: post-301-125772507948_thumb.jpg]

At this point you can clean & rebuild the cartridge assy on the bench (I changed both the comp. & rebound valve assy & fork springs) and with empty tubes, you can easily flush out the fork tubes while still on the bike.

If you want/need to work on either valve you need to push the lower valve(comp) up into the bottom of the cartridge to expose the inner c-clip, once removed (C-clip) you just push everything out the bottom of the cartridge with the upper rod.

[image: post-301-125772509778_thumb.jpg]

I reinstall the fork Cap and tighten the bottom bolt again.

[image: post-301-125772503771_thumb.jpg]

Repeat procedure on the other fork!

At this point I reinstall the axle, then remove both caps & springs allowing me to add and set fork oil level. Pump/stroke the dampen rod several times until oil comes out the top of the inner tube, then reinstall springs and fork caps. Pump the forks a few times w/the brake on and tighten the last axle pinch bolt and your done!

(Be sure to clean off any thing that may have got on rotors, pads or calipers)

Nothing to it, quick & clean! :dry:

BR's method 2213. wink.gif

Note: On oil level:

I've already done all the calculations to achieve correct oil levels while forks are still on the bike! It amounts to ADDING 10mm from measured oil level height to give true level. ie: measure 100mm level on bike, actual is 110mm. You will need to add an additional 10cc of oil to compensate for the fork angle.

If you have the actual cc amount (like 500cc's per leg) then you don't have to worry about it.

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glad to see you made your way out to the shop!

only question with this technique is that i thought getting that screw out of the bottom was a royal pain in the Arse...yes?

is it somehow easier using f4i shocks?

turtlecreek

glad to see you made your way out to the shop!

only question with this technique is that i thought getting that screw out of the bottom was a royal pain in the Arse...yes?

is it somehow easier using f4i shocks?

I have Not made it out to the shop yet! :blink:

This work was done prior to my crash! :beer:

I've never had an issue removing the bottom fork bolt as long as I keep the fork fully assembled and us a Impact wrench! :dry:

Thanks I need to change the springs and oil will give it a go :beer:

Once you've had the bolt out that screws into the compression damper, it comes out fairly easily in future removals. For whatever reason, the first time is the worse time.

Baileyrock

turtlecreek

glad to see you made your way out to the shop!

only question with this technique is that i thought getting that screw out of the bottom was a royal pain in the Arse...yes?

is it somehow easier using f4i shocks?

I have Not made it out to the shop yet! :dry:

This work was done prior to my crash! :fing02:

I've never had an issue removing the bottom fork bolt as long as I keep the fork fully assembled and us a Impact wrench! :blush:

A Impact wrench is the biggest key factor here for removal, A little pressure from the forks being intact allows the quick Banging action of the Impact to work.. Like lightly holding a wrench on a bolt while using a Impact, You dont need much...

any reason the cheap, hammer actuated impact wrench couldn't be used, or could that hurt anything?

turtlecreek

any reason the cheap, hammer actuated impact wrench couldn't be used, or could that hurt anything?

For whatever reason any method other than an air impact just doesn't seem to work as well! You can use my impact anytime you want and I have a mini compressor your can use to run it if you don't have one! :fing02:

On the VTEC and the 5th gen, that drain bolt isn't in such a convenient location as on the F4i forks... it's on the upside face of the inside the axle housing, so you have to pull the front wheel off and remove the pinch bolt(s) completely to access the bolt that holds all the fork internals in place... I have never needed an impact wrench to get this bolt out, but a friend of mine did bugger his altogether, which means getting a new (or second hand) internal cartridge...

But never fear, it is doable without removing the forks.. just a wee bit more complicated than for the F4i... but hey, removing the front wheel is as easy as dropping a fart...

Obviously you won't get all the old fork oil out but I guess it's better than not changing the oil ever...

I use a jack under the headers to support the bike without the wheel.

Auspañol

On the VTEC and the 5th gen, that drain bolt isn't in such a convenient location as on the F4i forks... it's on the upside face of the inside the axle housing, so you have to pull the front wheel off and remove the pinch bolt(s) completely to access the bolt that holds all the fork internals in place... I have never needed an impact wrench to get this bolt out, but a friend of mine did bugger his altogether, which means getting a new (or second hand) internal cartridge...

But never fear, it is doable without removing the forks.. just a wee bit more complicated than for the F4i... but hey, removing the front wheel is as easy as dropping a fart...

Obviously you won't get all the old fork oil out but I guess it's better than not changing the oil ever...

I use a jack under the headers to support the bike without the wheel.

Actually the VFR & F4i forks are exactly the same design as far as bolt location, the only difference is that the VFR uses a smaller bolt size than the F4i. Still no need to pull the wheel, just remove the axle (& pinch bolt if needed) and you have full access to the bolts in the bottom of the forks.

Also no reason not be able to flush every bit of old oil from the tubes when there empty and use compress air to blow out any remaining flushing fluid that might still be there. :ohmy:

Easy, simple, quick! Unless you need to replace seals or tube bushings there's no reason to pull the forks or any bodywork! :fing02:

[image: post-301-125779003297_thumb.jpg]

Since I have never added fork oil when did known the correct amount?Is it by volume or height,and did you need some sort of gauge to measure fluid hieght

silkysmooth

Since I have never added fork oil when did known the correct amount?Is it by volume or height,and did you need some sort of gauge to measure fluid hieght

Most manuals show a number (distance from top of fork tube to top of oil in a compressed fork w/no spring in it) like 110 mm.

They use to show cc's, but don't seem to do that any more.

There a simple tool they sell that you just set the mm's needed and slide a tube down into the fork, you suck out any extra above the desired distance. :angry:

Baileyrock

There a simple tool they sell that you just set the mm's needed and slide a tube down into the fork, you suck out any extra above the desired distance. :angry:

Screw that tool, they want $25 for that thing! :laugh: Just pick up a syringe, a piece of rubber tube, and a 6-8" piece of small aluminum tube. Connect the aluminum tube to the syringe with the rubber hose, and you have the same tool(almost) for about $5.

Instead of the nifty height-setting attachment that you get with the 'real' tool, just measure & mark the AL tube with a Sharpie. :laugh:

A hand pump vacumn bleeder for brakes works well also, I have the Correct tool now but the first time I just Zip tied the hose of a brake bleeder to a Bent clothes hanger and hung it on the side of the fork, Works well. If you oops and fill the fork to the top once you get the fluid flowing to the cup hold it below the level of the forks, remove top off of the cup and let it drain back into the bottle, Walla your done..

There are probably 100 ways to get the same results..

Baileyrock

Auspañol

On the VTEC and the 5th gen, that drain bolt isn't in such a convenient location as on the F4i forks... it's on the upside face of the inside the axle housing, so you have to pull the front wheel off and remove the pinch bolt(s) completely to access the bolt that holds all the fork internals in place... I have never needed an impact wrench to get this bolt out, but a friend of mine did bugger his altogether, which means getting a new (or second hand) internal cartridge...

But never fear, it is doable without removing the forks.. just a wee bit more complicated than for the F4i... but hey, removing the front wheel is as easy as dropping a fart...

Obviously you won't get all the old fork oil out but I guess it's better than not changing the oil ever...

I use a jack under the headers to support the bike without the wheel.

Actually the VFR & F4i forks are exactly the same design as far as bolt location, the only difference is that the VFR uses a smaller bolt size than the F4i. Still no need to pull the wheel, just remove the axle (& pinch bolt if needed) and you have full access to the bolts in the bottom of the forks.

Also no reason not be able to flush every bit of old oil from the tubes when there empty and use compress air to blow out any remaining flushing fluid that might still be there. :beer:

Easy, simple, quick! Unless you need to replace seals or tube bushings there's no reason to pull the forks or any bodywork! :fing02:

OK, I'll hand it to you, you are technically right, won't hold it against you :beer: but I guess it's almost a matter of semantics... if you pull the axle it's almost synonymous with pulling the wheel... the difference being you leave the wheel there instead of putting it aside... basically I was trying to point out that the drainage bolt isn't in as convenient a location as on the F4i forks, which have it on the outside of the fork lower, no removal of axle required...

Flushing would help, but it can't be as clean a change as pulling the forks and doing it proper but it's a good quick alternative which I myself have used to renew fork oil!!

FULL MARKS TO BAILEY!!

(rasafrasarasafrasa... Muttley groan)

Auspañol

basically I was trying to point out that the drainage bolt isn't in as convenient a location as on the F4i forks, which have it on the outside of the fork lower, no removal of axle required...

No, that's the point. There is no drainage bolt per say on either fork, it's just the bolt that holds the cartridge in place. The bolt location is identical, in fact every conventional fork has to have the same set-up to hold the cartridge assembly in the bottom of the fork tubes and the axle would be in the way one each one. Don't know if it's my picture or what making you believe there different because there is NO drain bolt on the side of the F4i fork?

Now there are some forks, usually older one's that have extra drain bolts on the bottom sides of the forks, but VFR & F4/f4i's are not one's. :fing02:

I hope I've clarified what I'm saying this time. :unsure:

:blush:

BR

Baileyrock

Don't know if it's my picture or what making you believe there different because there is NO drain bolt on the side of the F4i fork?

Maybe Auspañol thinks the compression valve is a drain bolt. It is in the same postion as where the drain bolts are on 3rd gen. fork lowers.

Baileyrock

Pump the forks a few times w/the brake on and tighten the last axle pinch bolt and your done!

Next time try to pump the forks without putting pressure on the brakes but by putting some 2x4 in front of the front tire. Can really reduce fork sticktion.

V4 Rosso

Maybe Auspañol thinks the compression valve is a drain bolt. It is in the same postion as where the drain bolts are on 3rd gen. fork lowers.

You are a smart man my friend, I bet that is exactly it! :fing02:

Baileyrock

V4 Rosso

Maybe Auspañol thinks the compression valve is a drain bolt. It is in the same postion as where the drain bolts are on 3rd gen. fork lowers.

You are a smart man my friend, I bet that is exactly it! :fing02:

Probably. My 81 has a fork oil drain plug.

Emmm... :unsure: yep... nailed it!!

I've seen the drain plugs on older models and assumed that's what I was seeing...

Sometimes... I see things :fing02:

(D'oh!!)

Auspañol

Sometimes... I see things :fing02:

And I'm the one on DRUGS! :blush:

Glad we got it figured out! :unsure:

Baileyrock

Auspañol

Sometimes... I see things :fing02:

And I'm the one on DRUGS! :goofy:

Glad we got it figured out! :unsure:

I'll need some drugs to get through this job,guess that's why I have let it ride several months :blush:

Baileyrock

Auspañol

basically I was trying to point out that the drainage bolt isn't in as convenient a location as on the F4i forks, which have it on the outside of the fork lower, no removal of axle required...

No, that's the point. There is no drainage bolt per say on either fork, it's just the bolt that holds the cartridge in place. The bolt location is identical, in fact every conventional fork has to have the same set-up to hold the cartridge assembly in the bottom of the fork tubes and the axle would be in the way one each one. Don't know if it's my picture or what making you believe there different because there is NO drain bolt on the side of the F4i fork?

Now there are some forks, usually older one's that have extra drain bolts on the bottom sides of the forks, but VFR & F4/f4i's are not one's. :fing02:

I hope I've clarified what I'm saying this time. :unsure:

:blush:

BR

BR, please note that the 95 4th gen and earlier did have a fork oil drainbolt at the bottom aft side of the lower fork tubes. I think the 3rd gen bikes had them too. They decided to save some money and blank out that bolt with the 96 VFR and later...........VFR de-evolution or simply just an attempt by Honda to force fork oil replacement towards the dealerships??....Kachinnnggg!!

Beck

95 VFR

Beck

BR, please note that the 95 4th gen and earlier did have a fork oil drainbolt at the bottom aft side of the lower fork tubes. I think the 3rd gen bikes had them too. They decided to save some money and blank out that bolt with the 96 VFR and later...........VFR de-evolution or simply just an attempt by Honda to force fork oil replacement towards the dealerships??....Kachinnnggg!!

Beck

95 VFR

That was a Major weight savings Move! :unsure:

Thanks Beck,

It doesn't really matter if a different model has a drain hole/plug or not, I'm mostly referring to later model VFR's but didn't want to just stick this method in the 6th gen section as it should apply to most any conventional cartridge fork equipped bike. It should also allow better cleaning/flushing than even drain plug equipped forks and allows you to mod the comp. & rebound valves or shim stacks while your in there and with a fraction of the labor time involved vs standard fork removal to do the same work. :fing02:

Kevin a couple questions if I may...

Did you have any trouble setting your oil level with the forks at an angle. I just had RaceTech tell me that the level was very important and the forks needed to be straight up to get it right. I plan on changing the valves and springs without removing the forks based on inspiration from this thread, can I do it you think?

Thanks Kevin.

jasonsmith

Kevin a couple questions if I may...

Did you have any trouble setting your oil level with the forks at an angle. I just had RaceTech tell me that the level was very important and the forks needed to be straight up to get it right. I plan on changing the valves and springs without removing the forks based on inspiration from this thread, can I do it you think?

Thanks Kevin.

Hi Kevin,

Sure, all you have to do is figure out where the proper level would be with the 43mm tubes at 25 deg angle vs straight up! So basically if you measure the high side of the angled fork oil in the tube it will read approximately 10mm high vs level tube, so just subtract 10mm from desired measured level and you should be right there IMO. :fing02:

BaileyRock

jasonsmith

Kevin a couple questions if I may...

Did you have any trouble setting your oil level with the forks at an angle. I just had RaceTech tell me that the level was very important and the forks needed to be straight up to get it right. I plan on changing the valves and springs without removing the forks based on inspiration from this thread, can I do it you think?

Thanks Kevin.

Hi Kevin,

Sure, all you have to do is figure out where the proper level would be with the 43mm tubes at 25 deg angle vs straight up! So basically if you measure the high side of the angled fork oil in the tube it will read approximately 10mm high vs level tube, so just subtract 10mm from desired measured level and you should be right there IMO. :fing02:

Thanks Kevin, much appreciated. I have the G2-R Next Generation Compression Kit and the Hi-Frequency Response Race Rebound Gold Valve with some .95's on route to me. RaceTech recommended the Hi-Freq Rebound for whatever reason. They are pre-drilling for me as well.

jasonsmith

Thanks Kevin, much appreciated. I have the G2-R Next Generation Compression Kit and the Hi-Frequency Response Race Rebound Gold Valve with some .95's on route to me. RaceTech recommended the Hi-Freq Rebound for whatever reason. They are pre-drilling for me as well.

Be sure to let us know how that set-up works for you! :fing02:

BaileyRock

jasonsmith

Thanks Kevin, much appreciated. I have the G2-R Next Generation Compression Kit and the Hi-Frequency Response Race Rebound Gold Valve with some .95's on route to me. RaceTech recommended the Hi-Freq Rebound for whatever reason. They are pre-drilling for me as well.

Be sure to let us know how that set-up works for you! :fing02:

Will do, since all the ideas are yours to begin with wink.gif

BaileyRock

jasonsmith

Thanks Kevin, much appreciated. I have the G2-R Next Generation Compression Kit and the Hi-Frequency Response Race Rebound Gold Valve with some .95's on route to me. RaceTech recommended the Hi-Freq Rebound for whatever reason. They are pre-drilling for me as well.

Be sure to let us know how that set-up works for you! :goofy:

Well all the bits arrived and they are all in. I tried to do it without taking the forks off but the oil lock piece at the bottom of the fork caused some grief. I couldn't get the cartridge to seat so couldn't get the bolt back in, none the less taking the fork off added another 10 min so it wasn't a big deal.

So the numbers...

Rear - 35mm sag in the rear with 9mm free sag.

Front - 35mm sag with 22mm free sag... is that okay or is the spring to stiff...? It can't be to stiff, considering that RaceTech actually wants a 1kg+ spring for my 220lbs. I was having some stiction related number changing but I'm pretty sure I got decently reliable numbers.

So... is 20-22mm free sag okay?

BaileyRock

Auspañol

On the VTEC and the 5th gen, that drain bolt isn't in such a convenient location as on the F4i forks... it's on the upside face of the inside the axle housing, so you have to pull the front wheel off and remove the pinch bolt(s) completely to access the bolt that holds all the fork internals in place... I have never needed an impact wrench to get this bolt out, but a friend of mine did bugger his altogether, which means getting a new (or second hand) internal cartridge...

But never fear, it is doable without removing the forks.. just a wee bit more complicated than for the F4i... but hey, removing the front wheel is as easy as dropping a fart...

Obviously you won't get all the old fork oil out but I guess it's better than not changing the oil ever...

I use a jack under the headers to support the bike without the wheel.

Actually the VFR & F4i forks are exactly the same design as far as bolt location, the only difference is that the VFR uses a smaller bolt size than the F4i. Still no need to pull the wheel, just remove the axle (& pinch bolt if needed) and you have full access to the bolts in the bottom of the forks.

Also no reason not be able to flush every bit of old oil from the tubes when there empty and use compress air to blow out any remaining flushing fluid that might still be there. :fing02:

Easy, simple, quick! Unless you need to replace seals or tube bushings there's no reason to pull the forks or any bodywork! :goofy:

Would I be correct by saying the internal rod for the f4i is hollow and the vfr 6thgen is solid?

steven113

BaileyRock

Auspañol

On the VTEC and the 5th gen, that drain bolt isn't in such a convenient location as on the F4i forks... it's on the upside face of the inside the axle housing, so you have to pull the front wheel off and remove the pinch bolt(s) completely to access the bolt that holds all the fork internals in place... I have never needed an impact wrench to get this bolt out, but a friend of mine did bugger his altogether, which means getting a new (or second hand) internal cartridge...

But never fear, it is doable without removing the forks.. just a wee bit more complicated than for the F4i... but hey, removing the front wheel is as easy as dropping a fart...

Obviously you won't get all the old fork oil out but I guess it's better than not changing the oil ever...

I use a jack under the headers to support the bike without the wheel.

Actually the VFR & F4i forks are exactly the same design as far as bolt location, the only difference is that the VFR uses a smaller bolt size than the F4i. Still no need to pull the wheel, just remove the axle (& pinch bolt if needed) and you have full access to the bolts in the bottom of the forks.

Also no reason not be able to flush every bit of old oil from the tubes when there empty and use compress air to blow out any remaining flushing fluid that might still be there. :fing02:

Easy, simple, quick! Unless you need to replace seals or tube bushings there's no reason to pull the forks or any bodywork! :goofy:

Would I be correct by saying the internal rod for the f4i is hollow and the vfr 6thgen is solid?

My rod was hollow. I know because oil was constantly dripping out of it all over my garage floor. :mad:

When replacing the bolt in the bottom of the forks, do I need to replace the copper washer or reuse the existing one? Opinions? :unsure: Looking at replacing fluid in the near future.

LJVFR

When replacing the bolt in the bottom of the forks, do I need to replace the copper washer or reuse the existing one? Opinions? :unsure: Looking at replacing fluid in the near future.

mine stayed stuck on the fork so I left it and reused it. It's all good.

jasonsmith

LJVFR

When replacing the bolt in the bottom of the forks, do I need to replace the copper washer or reuse the existing one? Opinions? :unsure: Looking at replacing fluid in the near future.

mine stayed stuck on the fork so I left it and reused it. It's all good.

+1.gif I've never had an issue reusing them.

Does anybody use kerosene to flush out the forks and clean all the gunk out of the tubes. I used to use kerosene on my dirtbikes and it works well. Any reason not to use it on the VFR?

Flash

Outstanding tip!

I've been removing forks to do this job since they quit putting the drain bolts in lower legs (and I've always been told that the drain bolts didn't do a good job of draining everything and that is why the fork companies quit putting them on there -or something to do with how the cartridges on newer bikes are put together precludes the drain working correctly.

I'm going to try this next time.

As far as the the bottom bolt is concerned, I've found that if you don't have an impact wrench you can use a battery drill instead. Once you loosen the bolt by hand to the point where it starts to turn (and turn and turn and turn, because the cartridge is moving too) you just put the battery drill on with the correct sized allen head and hit the trigger. The drill moves the bottom bolt so fast that the cartridge doesn't have a chance to get moving due to its own inertia. The bolt will just spin free. This technique works for me -but then again the bike has had the bolt removed before too. It has worked for me on other bikes the first time though.

I never thought of pulling the bolt out as a drain bolt before.

:biggrin: This website rocks! :fing02:

I don't know why I've not been paying much attention to it all these years.

Hi guys

I'm new on this forum and new in the VFR world! I just bought a 2003 VFR with ABS. When I did the road test prior to purchase,

the bike seamed pretty straight and smooth rolling. But it's now been a week since purchase and I feel the suspension is

getting more and more "loose". When I ride, my front tire seams to jump continously. I checked the tire pressure and it

is ok. I do have the impression that the tire has bumps in it but i dont think it could cause such bumping.

when I brake only in front, the bike really go forward... I have done my fork seals on a custom before, but i never

done it on a VFR. Could it be my seals that are dead? missing oil? there is no sign of oil leak... no rust on cylinder...

also, when the bike is on it's side stand, if i grab the rear handle i can easily rock the bike ! as if the swing arm was

rocking slightly horizontally .

I know it's a lot of explanation but i really need to know what's going on! dont want to get ripped off by the shop !

Any comments? suggestions?

Thanks

eole72

Hi guys

I'm new on this forum and new in the VFR world! I just bought a 2003 VFR with ABS. When I did the road test prior to purchase,

the bike seamed pretty straight and smooth rolling. But it's now been a week since purchase and I feel the suspension is

getting more and more "loose". When I ride, my front tire seams to jump continously. I checked the tire pressure and it

is ok. I do have the impression that the tire has bumps in it but i dont think it could cause such bumping.

when I brake only in front, the bike really go forward... I have done my fork seals on a custom before, but i never

done it on a VFR. Could it be my seals that are dead? missing oil? there is no sign of oil leak... no rust on cylinder...

also, when the bike is on it's side stand, if i grab the rear handle i can easily rock the bike ! as if the swing arm was

rocking slightly horizontally .

I know it's a lot of explanation but i really need to know what's going on! dont want to get ripped off by the shop !

Any comments? suggestions?

Thanks

Hi and Welcome to VFRD! :fing02:

What tires and pressures are you running? 36/42 is almost ideal pressures.

I would think it would be more of a tire issue than forks unless it's some hack rebuilt wreck! :cheerleader:

Set sag rates to your weight asap (search forms)and if you weigh over 160lbs the VFR is sprung to soft for you in general!

Not sure what your talking about with the movement on teh side stand! :fing02:

eole72

When I ride, my front tire seams to jump continously. ...I do have the impression that the tire has bumps in it but i dont think it could cause such bumping.

I would recommmend checking the oil level in the forks (100mm/3.9"), it doesn't take much time. Also have a good look at the tires as it sounds like there maybe something wrong with the cords. Got a pic of the bumps on the tire?

Hi all,

Very interesting topic.

I just bought a 12 year old, low milleage fifth gen.

Everything seems OK, but I've read in a couple of threads that fork oil is a must replacement for older bikes.

Is there any reason to this? (water ingress, corrosion, fungus).

Everything works fine and there's no leakage.

I'm not a very good mechanic, but if it is necesarry, I might give this a shot.

The only other thing I plan to do is replace clutch actuator fluid, since it looks yellow. Strangely, brake fluid still looks perfect.

Oubaa

Hi all,

Very interesting topic.

I just bought a 12 year old, low milleage fifth gen.

Everything seems OK, but I've read in a couple of threads that fork oil is a must replacement for older bikes.

Is there any reason to this? (water ingress, corrosion, fungus).

Everything works fine and there's no leakage.

I'm not a very good mechanic, but if it is necesarry, I might give this a shot.

The only other thing I plan to do is replace clutch actuator fluid, since it looks yellow. Strangely, brake fluid still looks perfect.

Well pretty much like most/all fluids they break down over time with or w/o use, so it never hurts to change them out.

ps Welcome!

Oubaa there is a very simple explanation, you change engine oil regularly because of heat & contaminants, fork oil needs to be changed for the same reason. Fork oil heats up & is contaminated in two ways very fine dust particles can pass through the seals & the internal components like the brass alinement bushes & valve stem which are continually under side loading from flex & up/down movement wear. This is why you can find major amounts of sludge within a fork tube.

Thanks for this write up. Changed my fork oil and installed springs in a couple of hours yesterday afternoon. Was going to wait until after the riding season, but this made it so easy I want to do it again!

I think this method is the way most shops do it , cause its much quicker. However I dont like breakign seal contacts unless actually replacing seals, and oil heiught is a critical set up, that should be measured accurately(with the forks off and completely vertical). Half a cap of oil, can mean the difference between a fork that works well and one that doesnt.

So, I personally do not use this method, for risk of seal leak developement, and accurate oil height measurement.

spud786

I think this method is the way most shops do it , cause its much quicker. However I dont like breakign seal contacts unless actually replacing seals, and oil heiught is a critical set up, that should be measured accurately(with the forks off and completely vertical). Half a cap of oil, can mean the difference between a fork that works well and one that doesnt.

So, I personally do not use this method, for risk of seal leak developement, and accurate oil height measurement.

This is NOT the best method for fork oil change as complete disassembly would provide complete cleaning, BUT it's great for a quick refresh of anything currently in the forks and it can be performed 30min before a ride! :tongue:

On oil level:

I've already done all the calculations to achieve correct oil levels while forks are still on the bike! It amounts to adding 10mm from measured oil level height to give true level. ie: measure 100mm level on bike, actual is 110mm.

BR

100mm is far too much fluid. For the VFR800's I suggest 130mm, but never go beyond 120mm. Any more fluid and your internal air pressure ramps to the moon before full travel is reached. Each bike/model/generation is different and this information applies to VFR800's only (both Ø41mm and Ø43mm forks).

JamieDaugherty

100mm is far too much fluid. For the VFR800's I suggest 130mm, but never go beyond 120mm. Any more fluid and your internal air pressure ramps to the moon before full travel is reached. Each bike/model/generation is different and this information applies to VFR800's only (both Ø41mm and Ø43mm forks).

Course your assuming, not running stock springs, 120mm on stock springs or even 100mm, is instant bottoming and blowing through the travel, Just an FYI for those who think of trying with stock fluid weight and springs.

Im actually running 95mm on stock springs with ss8, its very usable. The ramp up is there that you talk about at the bottom of stroke, but it fits me well, Thats what I wanted, it's just right. The rear shock I could use alittle more beef , 80 mph 1 1/2 ft deep wash board road, stresses the limitations.

JamieDaugherty

100mm is far too much fluid. For the VFR800's I suggest 130mm, but never go beyond 120mm. Any more fluid and your internal air pressure ramps to the moon before full travel is reached. Each bike/model/generation is different and this information applies to VFR800's only (both Ø41mm and Ø43mm forks).

My numbers are for example only in reference to measuring levels on the bike, NOT spec level for anything! It only means actual is a 10mm less then measured on bike, nothing else.

Sorry if anyone thought otherwise! :tongue:

BR

spud786

Course your assuming, not running stock springs, 120mm on stock springs or even 100mm, is instant bottoming and blowing through the travel, Just an FYI for those who think of trying with stock fluid weight and springs.

Actually, the spring rate plays no part in this discussion. Fluid level creates the available volume for the air to compress when the forks travel. Without enough air gap in the forks the air pressure will ramp to an excessive level. This causes a variety of problems. Not only can this lead to premature seal wear but there are performance drawbacks as well. The air "spring" inside the forks ramps up at an exponential rate, with too much ramp up the effective travel of the forks will be reduced. The VFR's have approximately 109mm of fork travel, the commonly accepted "good" number is more like 120mm. Since the VFR's are already starting out behind the 8-ball in the fork travel department it's best to not reduce it any further.

Yes too much oil can cause hydraulic lock, reducing travel. Im saying on my 43 mm, I run 95 mm oil height and works fine (full travel), 100mm bottoms like smack( DINK).Thats why I dont understand how you are saying run 120mm and the spring rate dont matter. Springs rates always matter in combination with oil height, and oil weight.You'd have to be a feather weight, not to destroy the wheel bearings with 120mm on stock springs, it would bottom so hard and fast.

Maybe we arent talking about the same bike, I dont know.

Springs rate is independent of fluid height. Fluid level is directly related to fork travel.

Each independant, I suppose thats true, Ive always found anytime you change one of the major factors you start with a different platform to adjust.Ive always found ,anytime Ive upped spring rate it Requires less oil height, atleast if running the same weight oil.Oil height has its greatest effect in the last 25% of travel, if talking 12 inches , thats the last 4inch. If only talking 4.5 total inches like on a VFR, the greatest effect is in the last 1 inch or so of travel.Oil height doesnt reduce travel(unless) using too much oil causing hydraulic lock towards end of stroke, but the right amount of increase will stiffen the curvature of the stroke, but not reduce total travel.I had race tech do a set of forks with gold valves several years back, I sent them back twice, still no good in comparison to my original modified set up, That was not a good investment at all.

They didnt like having to redo them either, overall I fiqure, unless you have a tuner on site, thats willing to adjust or take them apart multiple times, which is what I needed, its really the only way. The first set up they sent me, just blew through the travel too much, I think those gold valves just open the oil flow too much. When I sent them back , they stiffened the slow sped valving , but I still had to run them at 2 out on compression(practically closed) to make them usable.

[image: post-8974-0-83791700-1380483919.jpg]

The oil that came out was as dark as a cup of ristretto......

The new (Motul 7.5W) as light as a chardonnay.

Wilbers' specs are for a 170mm air pocket, went for 160mm. Pure speculation! :goofy:

The "30 minute" fork oil change has turned into a 2 hour fork oil change. The oil lock piece got stuck at the bottom and I didn't have long enough tools to grab it or the damper rod when it falls back inside the fork tube. Took me forever to finally get it all lined up enough to hit it with a impact gun. Does the bottom lock nut look like it is in to the proper depth?

[image: post-29105-0-40535700-1432322652.jpg]

Yes, looks good as long as the copper gasket is on it.

Well, there were a few challenging things with my forks on the bike "30 minute" fork oil change. It ended up taking me hours. I need some advice on whether or not I need do it over or not.

I'll cut out most of the details and hiccups accept for the few things that concern me with the job I did. It is a bit hard to explain but I will do my best.

Tire off, fork oil drained. No problems. Cartridge assembly out (the oil lock piece from the bottom of the tube came up with it. Great). Everything looked good inside. Now we come to the issues.

A. Because the forks were left on the bike and because I didn't have a long enough tool that could reach down and grab the damper rod to pump the cartridge full of oil (once there was oil in there) I ended up keeping the cartridge assembly in one piece and then just measured exactly 457ml of fork oil (as stated in the manual) using a syringe. Because I left the cartridge assembly in one piece I could not measure down 130mm into the fork tube. I just went with the 457ml.

1. Is using the stated volume (457ml) instead of measuring down to the fork oil (130mm) going to be a problem?

B. Because I wasn't able to pre-pump the cartridge with oil (because I didn't have a long enough tool to grab the damper rod and I because I left the cartridge assembly in one piece) I chose to just add the 457ml of fork oil and then screw on the fork cap.

1. Is it imperative that I pre-load the cartridge with oil?

2. I figured I could just compress the forks once everything is capped off and everything would work itself out internally? Am I wrong?

3. Do I need to do it over and/or open the cap to relieve pressure or something? Or is this a non-issue?

C. My spanner wrenches were so thick that I couldn't get one on the damper adjuster and one on the lock nut. The wrench would overlap because the nuts were so close. I ended up hand tightening and then doing my best to get them tight with the wrenches. I don't know how successful I was at getting them tight. I don't know that I really got them that tight.

1. Is it going to be a problem if that nut isn't torqued down?

D. For some reason the left drain lock bolt (on the bottom of the fork) didn't seem to go back in as deep as the one on the right side. Maybe by 1-2mm. I started them by hand so I don't think they are cross threaded.

1. Is this acceptable?

I rode it around the block a few times doing some hard braking and compressing the forks. It didn't bottom out or really feel any different than before the oil change. I really am not enough of a suspension expert to even know what to look or feel for when evaluating suspension. And again, I don't know if the method I used to change the oil was acceptable.

Corkey

Well, there were a few challenging things with my forks on the bike "30 minute" fork oil change. It ended up taking me hours. I need some advice on whether or not I need do it over or not.

I'll cut out most of the details and hiccups accept for the few things that concern me with the job I did. It is a bit hard to explain but I will do my best.

Tire off, fork oil drained. No problems. Cartridge assembly out (the oil lock piece from the bottom of the tube came up with it. Great). Everything looked good inside. Now we come to the issues.

A. Because the forks were left on the bike and because I didn't have a long enough tool that could reach down and grab the damper rod to pump the cartridge full of oil (once there was oil in there) I ended up keeping the cartridge assembly in one piece and then just measured exactly 457ml of fork oil (as stated in the manual) using a syringe. Because I left the cartridge assembly in one piece I could not measure down 130mm into the fork tube. I just went with the 457ml.

1. Is using the stated volume (457ml) instead of measuring down to the fork oil (130mm) going to be a problem?

B. Because I wasn't able to pre-pump the cartridge with oil (because I didn't have a long enough tool to grab the damper rod and I because I left the cartridge assembly in one piece) I chose to just add the 457ml of fork oil and then screw on the fork cap.

1. Is it imperative that I pre-load the cartridge with oil?

2. I figured I could just compress the forks once everything is capped off and everything would work itself out internally? Am I wrong?

3. Do I need to do it over and/or open the cap to relieve pressure or something? Or is this a non-issue?

C. My spanner wrenches were so thick that I couldn't get one on the damper adjuster and one on the lock nut. The wrench would overlap because the nuts were so close. I ended up hand tightening and then doing my best to get them tight with the wrenches. I don't know how successful I was at getting them tight. I don't know that I really got them that tight.

1. Is it going to be a problem if that nut isn't torqued down?

D. For some reason the left drain lock bolt (on the bottom of the fork) didn't seem to go back in as deep as the one on the right side. Maybe by 1-2mm. I started them by hand so I don't think they are cross threaded.

1. Is this acceptable?

I rode it around the block a few times doing some hard braking and compressing the forks. It didn't bottom out or really feel any different than before the oil change. I really am not enough of a suspension expert to even know what to look or feel for when evaluating suspension. And again, I don't know if the method I used to change the oil was acceptable.

That's all screwed up as far as im concerned for cartridge fork set up, they need to be pumped bled and oil height measured .

and anytime you break the seals, best to replace(that's one issue I have with 30 minute oil change(your just risking seal issue). also you don't even have to even separate the forks, just to change oil., you do have to remove the legs, and the top caps and spring. No need to touch bottom fork bolt, unless your doing a complete disassembly.

Dutchy, it depends on whether you're sure you managed to get all the old oil out. If so, adding exact Specified Volume of New oil should be fine. If not, then you now have more oil in there than Spec... depending on how much more you could Experience Hydraulic lock, Although I doubt that. Depends on how Long you let it Drain and whether you pumped to get most of the old oil out.

As far as the air in the rod sorting Itself out, yes, It will.

The big question is how much old oil was left in there.

A wire Coat Hanger or Other Length of wire is great for fishing out the damping rod.

I reckon you'll be fine Regarding lock nut and Lower bolt. They aren't going anywhere nor can anything really come undone given the hermetic set-up.

You'll only Know if Lower bolt is Loose if you start Losing oil through there. Check for leaks regularly. If your Model had Preload adjustment you might Notice it Turns to no effect but this is not the case.

If you crash and burn I accept no Responsibility

I was just wanting to change the oil. My seals are fine as far as I can tell. Nothing is leaking externally. Based on the look of the fork oil I removed (clean looking) my guess was that the previous owner had worked on them not that long ago, possibly right before I bought the bike.

The whole point of trying the 30 minute oil change (for me) was to keep the forks on the bike so I didn't have to battle the triple clamp bolts under up under the fairing. And because it was my first time dealing with forks myself.

I let both forks drain a long time. I did remove the cartridge and pumped out all of the old oil before reinserting it. If anything there was a small spot at the bottom of the fork near the drain hole and very light residual oil left the sidewalls of the tubes. I know these small amounts add up and will be added to the overall quantity of oil I add. I probably should have used some brake cleaner to clean it out properly, but at the time my reasoning was that I didn't feel that small amount would make a difference (as I am sure there is residual oil inside the cartridge as well). However, maybe I am wrong. My manual (1998-2001) states "Fluid Capacity 457ml plus or minus 2.5ml". I put exactly 457ml in using a syringe.

My real concern is whether or not oil is able to make its way into the cartridge if it wasn't pre-pumped in prior to the fork cap being tightened (creating some sort of air pressure issue?). I don't know enough about forks/suspension to know.

Unfortunately my experience was not as fun as yours. Took me about 6 hours, about 1 hour to get the 2nd bolt out, over 4 hours trying to get the bottom bolt to tighten enough to seal. It would of course start to tighten and then spin. Spent over 4 hours trying everything I could think of, including impact. Finally took the fork tube to a Honda dealer and they got it to tighten. Gave the mechanic $10 for lunch money. After that, I will never remove that again. Of course first fork tube went fine, so I couldn't just leave it alone.

Corkey

I was just wanting to change the oil. My seals are fine as far as I can tell. Nothing is leaking externally. Based on the look of the fork oil I removed (clean looking) my guess was that the previous owner had worked on them not that long ago, possibly right before I bought the bike.

The whole point of trying the 30 minute oil change (for me) was to keep the forks on the bike so I didn't have to battle the triple clamp bolts under up under the fairing. And because it was my first time dealing with forks myself.

I let both forks drain a long time. I did remove the cartridge and pumped out all of the old oil before reinserting it. If anything there was a small spot at the bottom of the fork near the drain hole and very light residual oil left the sidewalls of the tubes. I know these small amounts add up and will be added to the overall quantity of oil I add. I probably should have used some brake cleaner to clean it out properly, but at the time my reasoning was that I didn't feel that small amount would make a difference (as I am sure there is residual oil inside the cartridge as well). However, maybe I am wrong. My manual (1998-2001) states "Fluid Capacity 457ml plus or minus 2.5ml". I put exactly 457ml in using a syringe.

My real concern is whether or not oil is able to make its way into the cartridge if it wasn't pre-pumped in prior to the fork cap being tightened (creating some sort of air pressure issue?). I don't know enough about forks/suspension to know.

I don't think it's an issue at all as all air will works it's way to the top is short order and things will be normal.

Also adding the exact amount of recommended oil vs a level will also be a mute item. I run an extra 10cc's in my forks to help firm them up slightly.

spud786

Corkey

That's all screwed up as far as im concerned for cartridge fork set up, they need to be pumped bled and oil height measured .

and anytime you break the seals, best to replace(that's one issue I have with 30 minute oil change(your just risking seal issue). also you don't even have to even separate the forks, just to change oil., you do have to remove the legs, and the top caps and spring. No need to touch bottom fork bolt, unless your doing a complete disassembly.

You do Not "break the seal" with this method so no worries there related to the seals!

Again I don't suggest this is better then a full blown dis assembly of the forks, but for most it's a much easier way to improve your bike's fork performance.

It's really no different then changing your engine oil w/o performing a complete engine disassemble y to get out all the dirt and old oil, this method gets most of it and replaces most of the old oil replacing it with fresh. :beer:

I always use an impact wrench to remove & tighten the bottom cartridge retaining bolt with the fork fully assembled, using the spring pressure to hold the cartridge assm.

This method has only not worked once in my life.

Corkey

Because I wasn't able to pre-pump the cartridge with oil (because I didn't have a long enough tool to grab the damper rod and

You don't need a special tool, next time attach some rope to the damper rods.

[image: img_0965.jpg]

C. My spanner wrenches were so thick that I couldn't get one on the damper adjuster and one on the lock nut.

My real concern is whether or not oil is able to make its way into the cartridge if it wasn't pre-pumped in prior to the fork cap being tightened (creating some sort of air pressure issue?). I don't know enough about forks/suspension to know.

Dutchy

[image: attachicon.gif]DSC_3628.jpg

The oil that came out was as dark as a cup of ristretto......

The new (Motul 7.5W) as light as a chardonnay.

Wilbers' specs are for a 170mm air pocket, went for 160mm. Pure speculation! :goofy:

Hahaha Leon and Bert on the tubes. :fing02:

So I am planning to change the fork oil in the next coming weeks. I have a 1996 VFR 750. Is the procedure same or anything is different? Any specialty tools are needed for 4th Gen? Any suggestions for fork oil for regular and normal street riding.

Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks folks.

Hello Faran

How much do you weigh?

If you have the tools and time, taking the forks out is preferred. You can clean the brake pistons as well.

As for settings, I like using an sae10 oil with a 130mm air gap.

Measured with springs out, rod all the way down (tie string so you can pull them put easily after) and stanchions all the way down into the lowers. In between filling up towards the 130mm air you want to move the stanchions up and down say 10 times. And push the lower up and measure.

It is so much easier with the forks out and the time saved minimal. Just be methodical as per the workshop manual

Dutchy

Hello Faran

How much do you weigh?

If you have the tools and time, taking the forks out is preferred. You can clean the brake pistons as well.

As for settings, I like using an sae10 oil with a 130mm air gap.

Measured with springs out, rod all the way down (tie string so you can pull them put easily after) and stanchions all the way down into the lowers. In between filling up towards the 130mm air you want to move the stanchions up and down say 10 times. And push the lower up and measure.

It is so much easier with the forks out and the time saved minimal. Just be methodical as per the workshop manual

Don't laugh, I am on lighter side, but with gear and everything I am ~150 lbs. :goofy:

Can I use 10W or 15W? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Maxima-56916-15Wt-Standard-Hydraulic-Fork-Oil-16-Oz-Bottle/162033379499?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35356%26meid%3D5e32eec26ad04b79997e5f706b570d58%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D162033379499%26clkid%3D4736685344832721200&_qi=RTM2247625

I can completely remove the forks, not a big deal. But can oil be drained with the forks on the bike or no?

Thanks guys.

yes scroll up in the post for a picture of Bert and myself removing the bolt after having taken out the front axle

You can use 15w oil, but as OEM spec is 5wt, that doesn't seem such a good idea to me!

Ciao,

JZH, 4/16/2016 at 6:56 AM

You can use 15w oil, but as OEM spec is 5wt, that doesn't seem such a good idea to me!

Ciao,

 

I agree, unless you changed the valving, or are going like something with Race Tech Gold valves (which flow a lot more oil) keep the stock recommended oil weight for the stock valving...

Matt

just tried this, and it wont go back together, screw wont go into the bottom, like its not feeling any thread, i looked into the tubes, and can see the oil seal peice at the bottom and i dont think they are slotting together. im going to try and take the forks off today like the conventional way and try to get it back together.  Annoying since i commute daily to work, and have a wife who hates me being in the garage and i told her it only takes 30 minutes.  

is that 110mm air gap with damper in and springs out btw?

1 hour ago, StormShadow2

is that 110mm air gap with damper in and springs out btw?

Springs out yes, damper rod in.

Stormshadow, I think you will find it hard to get the oil-lock piece to slip back onto the damper from the top. Maybe you can fish the oil lock out from the top with a long piece of wire, magnets won't work as it is alloy not steel. If you get it out, stick it back on the end of the damper with small dab of grease to hold it during reassembly.

i ended up taking the forks off today and doing the service the traditional way, and yes indeed the oil lock piece is the problem, i think it would be next to impossible to get it to all line up on the bike. 

What size is that Allen bolt in the bottom of the fork? 5mm or 6mm?


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M8 socket caps take 6mm hex.

Ciao,

5 hours ago, vulgar1

What size is that Allen bolt in the bottom of the fork? 5mm or 6mm?

Why? Were you thinking of just buying 1 Allen key?

I know there is many opinions on this subject, but to me there is only one way of doing this properly. 

All that angst and guessing to save 10 minutes worth of wok removing the forks. Why bother?

I did my apprenticeship under an old Polish bloke who used to drag me around the workshop by my ear when he caught me trying to take a short cut. 

He would say " What's this shagger? If you're going to do something, do it properly, if you're not going to do properly, don't do it " and then give me a kick up the arse for my troubles. 

I now see he was right. 

Pull them out and you get to clean them properly, inspect everything, add whatever oil height you want with both forks done accurately, and know that everything went in the way it was and torqued correctly. 

By the way, when I was using the stock 01 forks with 0.95 springs and rebound and compression gold valves, I found 110mm of 7.5 oil was the best setting for me. 

I just needed an extended one for the impact gun.

I am going to be installing a DMR kit this weekend. Trying to cut down on the runs to the store during the project.


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After sort of doing this over the weekend I can't really see why you wouldn't just pull the forks off the bike. Honestly it's not worth the hassle to do this with them still on. Too easy to mess the bolt up.


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