Front end conversion - was yours worth it ??

Having read a few posts both here and on the equally brilliant Bikersoracle site in the UK, I thought I'd get some feedback (er, sorry, no pun intended) from those that have changed their front end, be it Firestom (VTR1000), or a complicated USD set up.

If you've made a change, would you be so kind as to tell me what the change was, and how you feel about the results. I'm hoping to be able to do a simple conversion myself, mainly for the brakes as I already have Maxton internals in the std forks. While I appreciate the ultimate way would be a USD set up, form say a fireblade or R1 etc, I'm not sure it's the best bet for me, especially as it would no doubt cost approx £1000 to finish I would imagine. I'm also not sure it looks right cosmetically - something of an overkill, dunno, need to think on that.

My personal preference would be either a Firestorm or CBR600F4i (FX/FY) set of forks, refurbed calipers from that model, and then to get the GP20 fork cartridges from Maxton, to match my Maxton rear Shock, and also 'cause they really know what their doing, and would transform the Firestorm intenals for sure, as I understand they are pretty rubbish as std. I reckon that would set me back about £600 all in, but I could recoup some cash from selling my std VFR forks wth Maxton internals.

One question though - why has no-one done an 800 conversion, especially from a VTEC? I presume because of the differing fork diameters, and the fact that it's just not possible to get the wole yoke tree/wheel interface etc to fit - anyone know more on this?

Any comments gratefull received - pics too of the finished work please if you have them. Thanks.

I'm going through a GSXR1000 K7 conversion (see VFR800 track project thread). So not exactly in your scope by the sounds of it... The way I see it there's no limit to what you can stick in there, just find something you like... Seems like alot of people like the F4i front, but wouldn't know myself. I was after a trackable solution, and radial brakes were a requirement to that. Mine has been an ebay project if anything else - how to do a FE swap on a shoestring budget (patience!!!) I think you could go a long way with that budget and maybe have change at the end of it...

But don't get rid of your old forks in a hurry - alot of times (not always) you can keep the internals and fit them to other forks. I'd definitely look into this first, the F4i forks are not that far off it would seem, and Maxton makes some good kit, it'd be a shame to get rid of it if you don't have to.

On my 02 street Vtec I had Aftershocks re-valve & re-spring my stock forks and have run them Hard for over 50k miles with very good results! Actually they didn't feel that good until I balanced the rear Ohlins with the correct spring, then entire bike was transformed!

Only downside is No adjust-ability

On my 04 Vtec Track bike I installed a full F4i front end w/calipers and radial M/C, new shim stack for stock Rebound valve and changed to large port Showa Compression valves w/new shim stack. Felt Great and fully adjustable.

[image: post-301-0-23654300-1327363714.jpg]

[image: post-301-0-71729600-1327363758.jpg]

[image: post-301-0-05801400-1327363886.jpg]

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W/ F4i forks you can use stock VFR wheel/Rotors or F4 wheel & stock rotors or F4i wheel and rotors. I used a stock 06 Vtec fender on teh F4i forks, only 4 of the 6 mounts bolts work, but that's plenty.

BR

I just had the internals of my 4th gens reworked. For all of the stuffing around, unless you're going for the look and really need the extra performace, I don't see the point. Yes later USD fork may just perform better than reworked standard forks. I contend that is a MAY perform better.

That said, I do like the look of USDs on VFRs. Not enough to bastardise mine though.

For the last statement, I really can't see why anyone would put 6th gen forks on the 4th gen. With all the time and effort involved, you might as well do the F4i and have a better upgrade.

Did this Suzuki TL1000R Front end on the wife's Gen 3.

[image: DSCN0512.jpg]

Is better in the corners than stock the best I can tell. The biggest plus was in the breaking.

Bellow is my old track bike 4th gen with 6th gen front end, I only used them because I had them from my 6th gen when it was upgraded to USD forks. Due to the LHS fork leg needs the link brake mastercylinder setup there not a good swap, I just filled the master cylinder & sealed it off. Your better off using F4i forks which have the bonus of rebound/compression adjustment. The difference from the standard forks & brakes was worth the change 100 times over & needed it for the track.

[image: post-2353-0-17229900-1327387819.jpg]

Bellow is F4i front end I fitted to friends bike, parts were: F4i forks, F4i calipers, F4i master cylinder, F4i guard, 6th gen triple clamps, 6th gen clipons, 6th gen wheel, 6th gen rotors, 6th gen axle.

[image: VFR750 082.jpg]

Baileyrock

On my 02 street Vtec I had Aftershocks re-valve & re-spring my stock forks and have run them Hard for over 50k miles with very good results! Actually they didn't feel that good until I balanced the rear Ohlins with the correct spring, then entire bike was transformed!

Only downside is No adjust-ability

On my 04 Vtec Track bike I installed a full F4i front end w/calipers and radial M/C, new shim stack for stock Rebound valve and changed to large port Showa Compression valves w/new shim stack. Felt Great and fully adjustable.

W/ F4i forks you can use stock VFR wheel/Rotors or F4 wheel & stock rotors or F4i wheel and rotors. I used a stock 06 Vtec fender on teh F4i forks, only 4 of the 6 mounts bolts work, but that's plenty.

BR

zRoYz

Bellow is my old track bike 4th gen with 6th gen front end, I only used them because I had them from my 6th gen when it was upgraded to USD forks. Due to the RHS fork leg needs the link brake mastercylinder setup there not a good swap, I just filled the master cylinder & sealed it off. Your better off using F4i forks which have the bonus of rebound/compression adjustment. The difference from the standard forks & brakes was worth the change 100 times over & needed it for the track.

Bellow is F4i front end I fitted to friends bike, parts were: F4i forks, F4i calipers, F4i master cylinder, F4i guard, 6th gen triple clamps, 6th gen clipons, 6th gen wheel, 6th gen rotors, 6th gen axle.

BR / zRoyz,

You both mention being able to use the stock VFR wheel/rotor combo with the F4i forks and zRoys you are using the F4i caliper/master cylinder with that combo. Does that mean that the VFR calipers will not work with the F4i forks? I found a few sets of '02 F4 front ends for sale and thought I might look into this mod, but I would prefer to keep the stock brakes on my '09 w/linked braking intact. (I pressume they need to be F4i, not plain F4?)

I cant really comment.......but i'm going to anyway

I've not really ridden anything much other than my gen 4

Changed the fork oil and kept on top of the calipers

And got a newish shock off ebay

Never ran out of brakes or handling while running with

My mates on new bikes,so why go to the bother.

Maybe if i had something new to compare i'd know what

I was missing.

Had a shot on my friends gsxr 1000 and busa

The only things that really stood out ,was the massive power.

Didnt notice the brakes

Plus the talk of having to upgrade the shock puts me off a bit.

It get's a bit wallowy on really really fast stuff,but im already

In jailbait territory.

RC51 forks on a 1999 VFR800. No, I would not switch back.

The longer trail due to the RC51 triples different offset makes the bike steer slower (all else being equal) but on my bike, the front end is slightly lower than stock, and the rear end, I raised up, plus the handlebars are wider for more leverage, so it pretty much cancels that effect right out.

The brakes are absolutely stupid, and the ride quality and adjustability are far better than the standard VFR boingers. I added an Ohlins rear shock, courtesy of a VFRd member, and the transformation is complete.

twoeyedbob

Maybe if i had something new to compare i'd know what

I was missing.

There's that old saying, 'It's only good because it's all you know'.

Twoeyedbob - I get your point, and of course it's true that the rider is always key regardless - Ron Haslam could beat me on track even if I had a Fireblade & he had a paddock scooter :smile: . To be honest, I'm as influenced as the next man by all the lovely new shiney toys out there, but there's no way I can afford to replace the VFR with anything significantly better for my budget - I'd have to be looking in the £3500-£4000 range at least. After a bit of casual browsing at all the many & varied "frankenviffer's" on here, I've come to the conclusion that transforming my bike to the way I want it, for my reasons, regardless of future value, will give me more pleasure than trading in for something different. I did in fact try a swap last year - for an Aprila Falco - but you know, on balace, for my life, the VFR is actually a much better bike. Having used the Aprilia brembo's though, it did highlight where I could improve the VFR, and that is the main reason for a front end change, as I already have the benefit of Maxton fork cartridges. It's also a bit of a project thing for it's own sake, within my limited abilities of course.

Thanks everyone for your input. It does seem for me, that the F4i is the way to go, without going too crazy, especially as most things just slot in. Must say that VFRHusband's bike looks well trick - not quite my taste but a credit to you sir !

Re the f4i - does the bike end up with the same geometry - i.e. are the assembled forks the same length as the std 4th gen. I know dropping the std forks by 10mm is a recommended mod, and the Firestorm forks end up 10mm shorter than std, so is the f4i result the same as the Firestorm?

Duc2V4

BR / zRoyz,

You both mention being able to use the stock VFR wheel/rotor combo with the F4i forks and zRoys you are using the F4i caliper/master cylinder with that combo. Does that mean that the VFR calipers will not work with the F4i forks? I found a few sets of '02 F4 front ends for sale and thought I might look into this mod, but I would prefer to keep the stock brakes on my '09 w/linked braking intact. (I pressume they need to be F4i, not plain F4?)

You can't keep the link brakes with F4i forks because the LHS 6th gen caliper mount has the link brake mastercylinder for rear brake & the mount on that fork leg for that system is completely different, you can't really use the 6th gen lower with the F4i because of the compression adjustment adjuster is on the lower F4i fork leg & the reason to upgrade the 6th gen forks with F4i is to gain remote rebound/compression adjustment they have & the 6th gen doesn't. To keep the link brakes & improve the standard forks there are kits aval to add rebound remote adjustment but honestly if you get your 6th gen forks valving & sring rate set up well the only real worth while upgrade is USD forks.

Bellow is my 6th gen with CBR1000RR forks, I have sice installed my Ohlins CBR1000RR forks because the 25mm valving they have suits it better than the 30mm Ohlins cartridge kit in the forks in picture (the forks in picture are now installed on my CBR1000RR as the 30mm cartridges suit that bike better). The difference they make with handling & braking is like drinking your fav beer ice cold to the standard forks drinking it boiling hot.

[image: Frankenviffer MKII CBR]

These are Ohlins forks on my CBR that are now on above & above now on CBR, the reason for swap is the 30mm valving is for heavy braking & high front end loading, the VFR doesn't load the front end anywhere near as much as a sportbike.

[image: post-2353-0-36060000-1327413279.jpg]

zRoYz

Duc2V4

BR / zRoyz,

You both mention being able to use the stock VFR wheel/rotor combo with the F4i forks and zRoys you are using the F4i caliper/master cylinder with that combo. Does that mean that the VFR calipers will not work with the F4i forks? I found a few sets of '02 F4 front ends for sale and thought I might look into this mod, but I would prefer to keep the stock brakes on my '09 w/linked braking intact. (I pressume they need to be F4i, not plain F4?)

You can't keep the link brakes with F4i forks because the LHS 6th gen caliper mount has the link brake mastercylinder for rear brake & the mount on that fork leg for that system is completely different, you can't really use the 6th gen lower with the F4i because of the compression adjustment adjuster is on the lower F4i fork leg & the reason to upgrade the 6th gen forks with F4i is to gain remote rebound/compression adjustment they have & the 6th gen doesn't. To keep the link brakes & improve the standard forks there are kits aval to add rebound remote adjustment but honestly if you get your 6th gen forks valving & sring rate set up well the only real worth while upgrade is USD forks.

Bellow is my 6th gen with CBR1000RR forks, I have sice installed my Ohlins CBR1000RR forks because the 25mm valving they have suits it better than the 30mm Ohlins cartridge kit in the forks in picture (the forks in picture are now installed on my CBR1000RR as the 30mm cartridges suit that bike better). The difference they make with handling & braking is like drinking your fav beer ice cold to the standard forks drinking it boiling hot.

These are Ohlins forks on my CBR that are now on above & above now on CBR, the reason for swap is the 30mm valving is for heavy braking & high front end loading, the VFR doesn't load the front end anywhere near as much as a sportbike.

That's what I figured. I didn't want to get too carried away but I would like a little adjustability on the suspension. Since my bike does dual purpose, commuter and partime playbike, I want to be able to tune the suspension to what type of riding I'll be doing. However, since its primary role is to get me "there and back", I don't feel I need to go too hog wild. If I realy feel the need to go knee dragging or hit the track, I usually take the Duc. As far as the after market "remote rebound/compression adjustment" kits, those might be more of what I'm looking for.

Cheers.

Jaime Daughtery built a custom 929 shock for me and made custom shim stacks for me, I run them with 15wt oil and hyperpro springs right now. I reverted back to this setup from 1.0KG springs and honda 5wt because the front end feels much more positive especially 2 up. I was happy with the original suspension before I threw a passenger in the mix. Plus being deployed at the time I fell in love with my 4th gen and figured I would not better it with a newer bike. (came from 07 R6)

I already love everything about my gen 4

I'd be worried about changing anything in case

It turned into one of those things that's never quite right

A bit more this/that and it'll be right

It's all well balanced at the moment,

Of course that might mean it's soggy at both ends

But i know every nut and bolt and all it's boingy bits.

But even if i spent a fortune i'd still be 50-80bhp

Down on the latest thing

I just love that every season it get's more attention

Down the local bike meet,and that's before they see 90'000 miles

On the speedo

I love chasin and passin the shiny brand new sportsbikes on my favourite

Twisty road.

Sorry ..turned into a homage to ....still ..the best bike ever

I tossed a set of vtr (firestorm/Shawk) forks in my 96 4th gen. They have been massaged by my suspension guy, and are running rc51 brakes (straight bolt on). That and a penske out back make it great for everything including track days.

The Shawk forks are cheap, use the stock triple, and with the vtr axle and spacers uses the stock front wheel. I can't see more bang for the buck.

I see Roy's (zRoyZ) chimed in, so here's where the first USD coversion he did on his VTEC ended up when he sold the bike:

[image: post-1160-0-28685000-1327453551.jpg]

Here's the spec sheet for the original VFR1 http://www.vfrdiscus...pic/38679-vfr1/

Pretty much the whole thing went in as is, though there was some fiddling with moving oil cooler, shaving the inner fairing, moving cables, pipes etc

Is it worth it? Let's face it any improvement on the stock suspension and brakes has to be worth every cent - both are critical in keeping you out of trouble and as anyone with any sense will tell you, the only two things the last and best 750s need are decent brakes and suspension. The F4i swap - adjustable suspension, much better brakes - is one of the easier and cheaper options, uses Honda parts (so no faffing about with different axle specs, disc spacing, wheels, wheel bearing sizes) and will make a helluva difference.

Is it worth spending so much on a USD set up on a bike this old? In my view the question answers itself - the people who do this sort of thing aren't about to sell their bike so resale figures are irrelevant. In the end it comes down to turning a great bike into a fantastic one. As I said to Roy when I first rode mine with the R1 front, it feels like I've suddenly got 2-3 seconds extra per corner - the $$$ spent automatically justifies itself. The brakes are brilliant, but the irony is that cos the handling is so good I use them less than I did on the OEM set up. It steers much quicker yet is utterly stable (no hands-off headshakes at any speed) and it doesn't chew front tyres anywhere near as much. It will keep up with any modern sports bike in the twisties - or would if I wasn't such a pi$$-poor rider.

And it looks mint :tour:

When I did the RC51 fork conversion on mine, I was able to sell the complete stock VFR front end for $600 on EBAY, so that defrayed the costs somewhat.

If you sold the parts off piecemeal, you might get more than that.

I am very happy with my VTR forks and '99 CBR900RR (same as RC51/F4i/CBR929) brakes. I did the fork valving myself without any prior experience and got lucky as they feel very good. Couldn't you use the Maxton internals in the VTR forks? I think they would switch over very easily.

As the OP originally ask what people think of their front end conversions & I’m probably the only one on the site that has ridden on the most VFR’s with conversions I thought I would try my best to explain differences. When this type of question is asked you read a lot of posts from those that state “I don’t ride hard & my standard front end works great” which unfortunately without wanting to upset anyone who feels that way is like a person living in a box & thinks it’s great because they have never lived anywhere else.

Suspension for motorbikes evolves just like everything else & there is the other fact motorbikes are built for a target market to a price point by manufactures so you simply won’t always get great suspension standard with every bike, what you get is adequate suspension. The main purpose of suspension is to keep the tyre firmly planted on the road surface at all times nothing more, but to do so with so many variables is no easy task. Let’s take for example a high end shock the Ohlins TTX which is cutting edge, but since its release Ohlins have changed the internal design for the masses many times. That doesn’t even account for an individual having there suspension tuner do more modifications. The standard VFR suspension say for example the 6th gen has been the same design from factory from 2002-2012> the Ohlins TTX shock hasn't even been out that period & has had many internal revamps.

My 6th gen to use as an example front end has had standard forks re valved, RC51 forks, R1 05 forks, CBR1000RR forks with 30mm Ohlins cartridges & now Ohlins FGRT forks with 25mm cartridges. All the fork swaps have had extensive re valving to dial in my preferred feel option. Each fork has worked the way I have wanted them for my preferred feel, but the main difference with all these upgrades has been safety. The difference between the R1 05 forks & the CBR/Ohlins forks is next to nothing & I would still have the R1 forks installed if I hadn’t have sold the bike & then bought it back 2 years later. But to put that into prospective the R1 forks had valving specially designed for me & the VFR setup, none of the valving inside forks was standard R1.

The difference is like so, the standard forks have zero remote adjustment rebound/compression so the internal valving has to deal with so many variables you are making compromises by design. They also flex more than USD forks which isn’t major but the effect is noticed the most under hard braking. What is bad about the flex is the heat & wear it causes to internal parts, the more heat & wear the quicker your fork oil is contaminated. Contaminated oil slows response which is what suspension is all about, remember the standard forks have no rebound/compression remote adjustment so you can’t even compensate as the oil starts to get contaminated. This scenario is at its worst with 4th & 5th gens because there forks flex allot more having smaller diameter fork tubes & I have seen so many of these fork internals that bypass oil in a major way past the cartridge shaft seal due to wear from the flex. If your shaft seal leaks oil flow doesn’t flow through valving it squirts out the seal, outcome poor response.

RC51 forks are great forks compared to the standard forks but there an old design & there is a trade off with rebound/compression with them. You can’t valve them to get both compression/rebound very close to perfect, the suspension tech will make a compromise between the 2 when valving. You can notice this effect yourself (well I did) one click more compression makes too much difference & until you find a happy medium you’re always going one click up or one click down. The reason this happens is the VFR doesn’t load the front end much at all so you set compression soft to help load the front yet you hit a big bump & there is too much fork travel. The brakes aren’t really any better than the standard VFR brakes as far as callipers & clamping force, the big improvement is fork compression valving. This with the higher rigidity of USD forks (less flex) is what improves braking over the standard forks.

R1 forks are cutting edge for their price point & from 04 till 08 haven’t changed that much internally, there very easy to setup for the VFR & there remote rebound/compression adjustments are very precise. The major effect I notice changing to these forks was being able to change direction close to full lean angle mid corner without the bike becoming unsettled at all. That is a major safety improvement if there is a rock etc you didn’t see mid corner. The feel I obtain with these forks I couldn't with standard is the front end bobing up & down as it goes over bumps, but it's only the fork movement I'm feeling the front end stays more or less at the same height, the wheel is following the road surface sending great feed back through the bars. The other added advantage was the radial brakes which can be used to their full because the R1 forks compression is so good & the same rigidity as the RC51 forks.

CBR1000RR forks are more or less the same as the R1 but I can only comment on the Ohlins cartridge aspect because I haven’t ridden a VFR with modified standard valving. As mentioned the direction Ohlins has gone with really only 30mm valving available now is sportbike tech which place extreme loads on the front end, which the VFR doesn’t. This type of valving design is high stability under brakes, unfortunately I found due to the VFR not loading the front end like a sportbike I couldn’t gain the feel I prefer form them & my suspension tech did try a number of modifications to try to attain the feel I like. The front end mid corner due to unloading to quickly felt flighty & didn’t matter what rebound remote adjustment I tried on the fly I just didn’t like that valving on the VFR. On my CBR1000RR is another storey there outstanding.

The Ohlins (CBR1000RR) FGRT forks I have come with 25mm cartridges (the newer model now has 30mm) & these suit the VFR much better & I now feel there as good if not better than my old R1 setup.

The bottom line is response time as you need your forks to keep that contact patch at all times which is a major ask with all the variable road conditions. Remote adjustment rebound/compression on the fly with forks that are more ridged so less heat & wear internal components is everything when the flow rate of fork oil is what creates the response you need to keep that front wheel planted at all times. Just think how your standard forks feel straight after an oil change & then think about keeping that oil in that condition for a longer period & having adjustment to prolong the response as the oil starts to contaminate. Since installing the first USD upgrade (RC51) I haven't had a front end slide, not once, yet with standard forks even with valving & correct springs addressed I had many a slide, that is not in gravel or very lose surface as no tyre can grip if what it's griping to moves. Just for the record my riding style is fast into a corner less throttle out due to lean angle so I need to trust the front end, it's not always the fastest way around a corner but it's what I enjoy the most.

Hope I haven’t bored anybody with my speel.

Excellent Feedback and info Roy, THANKS!

Pinning topic.

BR

zRoyZ - Many thanks for that thoroughly informative post - I should have known, but I think I'm going to have to think about this front end rebuild project a lot more before I commit to anything, and re-read all your posts about the conversions you've done. The R1 set up on Parkers 750 looks great, apart form the master cylinder, but I guess there's limited choice for something to match the std clutch cylinder.

You clearly know your stuff, and it's amazing I get to benefit from your knowledge - so thanks again. Lovely looking VTEC you have there, a thoroughly sorted motorcycle.

BTW, moved this thread to Suspension as it applies to all gens! :tour:

BR

Ok,ok

But i like my box....its familiar

Some lovely mods on this thread

Thanks roy....but....step away from the box

zRoYz

Duc2V4 BR / zRoyz, You both mention being able to use the stock VFR wheel/rotor combo with the F4i forks and zRoys you are using the F4i caliper/master cylinder with that combo. Does that mean that the VFR calipers will not work with the F4i forks? I found a few sets of '02 F4 front ends for sale and thought I might look into this mod, but I would prefer to keep the stock brakes on my '09 w/linked braking intact. (I pressume they need to be F4i, not plain F4?)

You can't keep the link brakes with F4i forks because the LHS 6th gen caliper mount has the link brake mastercylinder for rear brake & the mount on that fork leg for that system is completely different, you can't really use the 6th gen lower with the F4i because of the compression adjustment adjuster is on the lower F4i fork leg & the reason to upgrade the 6th gen forks with F4i is to gain remote rebound/compression adjustment they have & the 6th gen doesn't. To keep the link brakes & improve the standard forks there are kits aval to add rebound remote adjustment but honestly if you get your 6th gen forks valving & sring rate set up well the only real worth while upgrade is USD forks. Bellow is my 6th gen with CBR1000RR forks, I have sice installed my Ohlins CBR1000RR forks because the 25mm valving they have suits it better than the 30mm Ohlins cartridge kit in the forks in picture (the forks in picture are now installed on my CBR1000RR as the 30mm cartridges suit that bike better). The difference they make with handling & braking is like drinking your fav beer ice cold to the standard forks drinking it boiling hot. These are Ohlins forks on my CBR that are now on above & above now on CBR, the reason for swap is the 30mm valving is for heavy braking & high front end loading, the VFR doesn't load the front end anywhere near as much as a sportbike.

*Renevator*....Where are you located at? I have locations on two R1 front ends as I am not going that direction and staying with the f4i fe. The front ends are complete and pretty reasonable. One is nicer than the other, but more $$

Renevator

If you've made a change, would you be so kind as to tell me what the change was, and how you feel about the results. I'm hoping to be able to do a simple conversion...

Hi to all.

For what can worth my experience, in these days i'm in progress with the substitution of my 1998 VFR 800 front fork with parts coming from a 1995 CBR 600.

Is a simple work why is possible the tubes substitution only, maintaining the original VFR external case, that means no CBS brake system modification.

With just same kind of work required for the fork seals substitution, installing the CBR tubes you will have the useful compression setting on the fork taps and a longer spring setting.

The mod will be completed by a linear spring rate kit instead the progressive OEM equipment.

All parts dimensions are parfectly the same except for the tubes lenght (CBR's are bit longer than VFR's), but this just means a different ledge from the upper triple.

This is an entry-level conversion kind; obviously a front end swap with an upside-down fork can be much performing, but much more expensive, because if your idea is an USD fork, is better to choose a full setting model and not a simple "inverted" fork with no possibilities of settings.

Ciao, Luigi.

mcrwt644

*Renevator*....Where are you located at? I have locations on two R1 front ends as I am not going that direction and staying with the f4i fe. The front ends are complete and pretty reasonable. One is nicer than the other, but more $$

I'm in the UK, but it's vaguely possible I could get stuff sent over from the US by a work connection. Not quite ready yet, as I've only just started thinking about this whole front end revamp, but always willing to hear of a bargain. Cheers.

O, I'm a bit more informed now, having read various "Frankenviffer" threads - there are some amazing conversions out there, and some of you guys sure do know your stuff. I'm still very tempted to do a USD conversion, and from what I can tell the R1 (Prob 1998/2000 model) forks are only about 5mm shorter that the stock VFR750FR forks, so shouldn't give me loads of problems by changing the way the bike sits, well, no more than the easiest of USD set ups would anyway. I'm going to need to sort out the Triple Tree, wheels, rotors, calipers etc, but one thing I wanted to check with those that have such a conversion (Parker, your opinions would be very much appreciated), is have you sacrificed road riding ability in any way. I've read on some conversions that folk reckon they've lost a fair bit of turning circle (obviously this depends on what config they've used) and they have also noticed a slower turning rate, which I find a bit confusing as I'd expect the use of slightly shorter forks, thereby making the steering angle smoewhat sharper, to have made the bike turn quicker ??

I'm not looking at geting a track set up here, and in saying that I guess it makes it obvious that I'm only really looking at a USD set up as a bit of a vanity project, as a properly sorted F4i conversion would probably do all I need and can justify. What I want to acheive (as well as enjoying the process of personalising my VFR of course) is a more compliant, taughter front end without loosing any of the wonderful VFR ride quality. I'm teaming the front up with my Maxton shock, so the rear is sorted. If I forget the USD appeal, I could just get some VTR1000 forks, and CBR600/900 calipers, and get the forks rebuilt by Maxton to my weight etc, but I'd be looking at the best part of £800, so I'm trying to see if a USD set up will be acheivable for less. I've asked, but the work Maxton did on my std VFR forks isn't transferable to the VTR forks, which is a shame. What I don't want to do is end up with a worse handling bike than the one I've got of course, and I know for sure going the VTR/Maxton intenals route would guarantee me the right results, but that ol' USD bling factor is very appealing, and if I get it sorted I can always improve it some more with Maxton internals at a later date, whan money allows.

Any feedback you coud give me on, er feedback (pardon the pun), would be much appreciated. I'm no 'zRoyZ' rider, but I can still appreciate what a great bike he's created for someone with the right skill, and as I said I'm not looking for a track tool, just an improved road tool that takes nothing away from the VFR ease, either in instabilty, turning abilty or ride comfort etc. If a USD conversion gives me a much better sport/track tool that's a bit of a pain in everyday, easy town riding, I guess I'd be wiser to stick to the std fork config mod. I know it's all subjective, but any comments would help.

Cheers

Rene

Great thread! :fing02:

zRoYz Hope I haven’t bored anybody with my speel.

Hardly! Thanks for your insights.

Renevator my thoughts on your last post.

I'm of the opinion good suspension isn't just for track days or fast riders (corner monkeys) but for everyone, yes in this day & age money is tight & allot of riders use there bikes only as a toy & those that are married have to justify the outlay just to have a bike in the garage. But frankly that is the wrong attitude, your far better off buying a cheaper bike so you have the funds to have the suspension modified to suit YOU. In the wash up your going to be far safer, your confidence/skills will grow without you even knowing & in the end when the need arises you will be a faster rider with a higher margin of safety than if you own a bike with much more hp that cost allot more money.

Parker made a comment about the R1 setup change to his 4th gen "I gain more time & use the brakes less" now his skill level didn't just change over night, what did change was the suspension on his bike nothing else. He is using the brakes less which means his corner entry has increase, yet if he needs to use the brakes harder like before suspension upgrade now he will stop quicker. That alone means one thing a higher level of safety, larger margin for error. I mean lets be honest we all make mistakes sometimes, some of those mistakes cause damage & pain, if you can increase the chance of recovery from said mistakes that has to be worth it's weight in gold.

You will always have the money factor involved so really people should modify there suspension for the best possible outcome within there budget because any upgrade is better than none. I note in your post some have said they lost this & that, well concentrating on USD conversions the only thing you lose is some turning cycle which only effects U turns, big deal how often do we do U turns in tight places & if you do just prepare like stop back your bike at an angle, then proceed forward to complete the U turn. Turn in etc is all part of set up like bike geometry, tyre profile, spring rate & valving, if people aren't happy then you need to address these factors. There are to many that do a fork conversion but forget the forks there using weren't designed for the bike there riding so you need to have valving/spring rate set up to suit the bike. More so with sportsbike forks on the vfr as I have mentioned the vfr doesn't load the front end anything like the forces a sportsbike does so to adapt to use with vfr you need modifications & not doing so is like baking a cake & not putting icing on it.

If my budget only allowed a purpose built aftermarket rear shock but meant I had to keep the standard forks with the correct spring rate & valving to match then that would be what I would do, but with the standard forks I would be changing out the fork oil every 5000kms to help keep response at the best level possible. The oil does contaminate quickly with the standard forks, I have pulled them apart at 2000kms & the oil was more contaminated than my R1 forks at 10000kms.

zRoYz

Renevator my thoughts on your last post.

I'm of the opinion good suspension isn't just for track days or fast riders (corner monkeys) but for everyone, yes in this day & age money is tight & allot of riders use there bikes only as a toy & those that are married have to justify the outlay just to have a bike in the garage. But frankly that is the wrong attitude, your far better off buying a cheaper bike so you have the funds to have the suspension modified to suit YOU. In the wash up your going to be far safer, your confidence/skills will grow without you even knowing & in the end when the need arises you will be a faster rider with a higher margin of safety than if you own a bike with much more hp that cost allot more money.

Agreed!!!!!!!!!! :smile:

I know somewhere Seb has a picture with a bunch of different forks standing next to each other for a fork height comparison. IIRC, there were two different R1 forks (06 & 00), a CBR fork (04) and maybe a VFR fork. Will go look it up somewhere.

YoshiHNS

I know somewhere Seb has a picture with a bunch of different forks standing next to each other for a fork height comparison. IIRC, there were two different R1 forks (06 & 00), a CBR fork (04) and maybe a VFR fork. Will go look it up somewhere.

What what

[image: forklineup.jpg]

00-01 R1... 05 R1...06-07 CBR1kRR... 04-05 CBR1kRR "Nohlins Edition"

Seb & Yoshi - many thanks for that, v helpfull.

zRoYz - apologies for not responding to your post earlier - seem to have had a very interrupted week.

Well, you've hot the nail right on the head there. The reason I've decided to spend the effort & time in a front end and rest of the bike rebuild on the VFR, is as a result of being honest with myself about the bike, and me. As we all do, I've hankered after a change in bike for a while, but I had to recognise my delusions of wealth, and admit I wasn't going to be in a position of affording anything much better than the VFR for quite some time. Of course, I could sell it ann add a little more cash to whatever I got for it, to buy something else, but I'd still only be looking at a £2000-£2500 bike, and for my money there's nothing better than my current VFR for that sort of cash. I've realised I'd need to spend at least £4000 to get anything significantly better, and even then, I'm not so sure. So after much deliberation, and as I said, a reasonably large dose of honesty with myself, I realised I still had a bike that was capable of offering me everything I could expect from a bike, well, at least with my current abilities anyway. So I thought, why not just spend that extra £1000 on the VFR, and make it something very personal and completely suited to me. It's been something of a cathartic decision to take my bike off the road. I probably shouldn't mention it on such a hallowed VFR forum, for fear of being ostracised, but over the last year or so I've utterly abused my bike, in so much as I've done sweet f.a to it, but still expected it to get me to work & back everyday - through all weathers and seasons. It's a honda, so it did just that. Jesus these bikes are well put together. I can blame circumstances, life, work family obligations etc, but in the end it was entirely down to me that my beautifull VFR was beginning to show it's age, but thank god I finally came to my senses and realised I needed to address my lack of commitment. Hense the question at the beginning of this post, and the very interesting & exciting journey I'm now on in my quest to rebuild this bike into my very personal VFR. Which is more than I can say for the next 12 months I'm likely to spend commuting by bus & car (though I should thank my lovely wife for allowing me to use her car :-))

Of course I'm not going to be doing anything original - reading about the many wonderful Frankenviffers here prioves that - but I'm aiming to make the bike mine, and sod the residuals, if you know what I mean.

So, back to the suspension - sorry, got carried away there.

I understand your point entirely about Parker and his confidence change in having the R1 front end you built. It's an odd thing isn't it, that when your confidence increases, along with your skill, you can do so much more with so much less. I think that applies to all manner of disciplines. How many notes did Count Basie leave out, and how wonderful did it sound :musik20:

Yes, I have made mistakes on the road, mostly when I've been riding out of my skill level, though I do try to be aware of what I'm doing as much as I can, so I can also see your point that having the best set up possible to correct those errors is the wisest route.

I'm sure the f4i conversion would probably serve my skill level, but if the rebuild plan goes, er, to plan, I'm likely to end up with a bike that's a keeper for quite a few years, so I reckon going that extra mile in doing a USD conversion will be money well spent. It seems now that with a well thought out conversion I'd be trading off very litle and gaining so much, so thansk forall your advice. With a fair bit of study I'm pretty sure I can do the spannering, but I'm going to need the expertise of an expert to revalve any USD forks I fit, both to the VFR & my requirements, and I've got a couple of good options over here in the UK to get that done. I have however just ordered Andrew Trevitt's suspension tuning book (can't remember the guy who recommended it here, but thank you whoever you were) in an effort to educate myself better on all aspect of this weird suspension science, and along with the help of guys like yourself on this terrific forum, I'm hoping I'll end up with a nicely sorted VFR. Incidentally, in the initial quote I had form one suspension expert, he told me that R1 forks are more costly to service than Showas, as fitted to Aprilia's and Fireblades. I did wonder if I could make some Aprilia Showas work, but they are an odd size in relation to Triple Tree possibilities, so not so east to make fit, and maybe that's reflected in the fact that they seem to be a bit cheaper as used ebay items, than say CBR1000 or R1 forks. Anyway, I've got my eyes peeled on a few other forums for some choice unwanted USD fornt ends, so fingers crossed I get something sorted before the end of summer - got a fair bit elase to do, including a nice paint job, if I can teach myself to spray as well...doh! little ambitious, but what the hell :-)

Cheers

Rene

VFRHusband

Did this Suzuki TL1000R Front end on the wife's Gen 3.

[image: DSCN0512.jpg]

Is better in the corners than stock the best I can tell. The biggest plus was in the breaking.

That bike is gorgeous! :ohmy:

Veefer800Canuck

RC51 forks on a 1999 VFR800. No, I would not switch back.

The longer trail due to the RC51 triples different offset makes the bike steer slower (all else being equal) but on my bike, the front end is slightly lower than stock, and the rear end, I raised up, plus the handlebars are wider for more leverage, so it pretty much cancels that effect right out.

The brakes are absolutely stupid, and the ride quality and adjustability are far better than the standard VFR boingers. I added an Ohlins rear shock, courtesy of a VFRd member, and the transformation is complete.

I did the same conversion and +1 to Veefer's comments. Offset of the new triples should not be disregarded as it is going to have the single biggest impact on trail which determines turn in. Lowering the front and raising the rear gives a different effective steering angle which can mostly offset the increased trail. I'm happy enough with the conversion and would do it again for the reasons Veefer stated. Good luck!

Did anybody did the front end conversion on an ABS VFR? Preserving the ABS is what's keeping me from atempting the upgrade. From what i've seen on this topic all the modified bikes were non ABS. CBS can be dropped ... I guess, but I'm not willing to do the same for ABS which saved my butt several times.

Thanks!

The best front end solution for me would still be something a person could just plug-and-play, instead of all the fiddling and fabricating around with different triple clamps, figuring out new steering stops, axle spacers...etc..etc..etc......Unless I end up retiring early with a lot of money won from a big lottery and a fantastic garage to work in filled with all the tools I dreamed of....it's just not gonna happen with my 4th gen....If I do come across lots of money and time on my hands soon, I will most likely just buy myself an RC45 or a Desmosedici instead.....!

Beck

95 VFR

ciprinakos

Did anybody did the front end conversion on an ABS VFR? Preserving the ABS is what's keeping me from atempting the upgrade. From what i've seen on this topic all the modified bikes were non ABS. CBS can be dropped ... I guess, but I'm not willing to do the same for ABS which saved my butt several times.

Thanks!

You'll note that more than just the forks are involved with these swaps.

ABS cannot be preserved for the same reason as the requirement to get rid of the linked braking setup: the new forks do not have the proper mounting bosses or proper wheel offset to retain the original brake calipers. Those calipers are needed for both linked brakes and ABS.

Given that the new forks are generally from a bike with better brakes, the trade-off between better brakes and linked/ABS brakes is usually considered part of the advantage.

zRoYz Just for the record my riding style is fast into a corner less throttle out due to lean angle so I need to trust the front end, it's not always the fastest way around a corner but it's what I enjoy the most.

Wow, totally the opposite to how I ride, which is slow in fast out. I've always felt more comfortable doing that. Doesn't mean I'm right or fast though!

kaldek

zRoYz Just for the record my riding style is fast into a corner less throttle out due to lean angle so I need to trust the front end, it's not always the fastest way around a corner but it's what I enjoy the most.

Wow, totally the opposite to how I ride, which is slow in fast out. I've always felt more comfortable doing that. Doesn't mean I'm right or fast though!

Your way is the safest way for riding on the road, the only draw back is you tend to wear out rear tyres faster using power to fling the bike round the apex & out of the corner. I picked up the habit from track riding to go into a corner fairly hot so you have allot more lean angle so you can't use as much throttle at the apex due to smaller tyre patch on the road, so you have to wait longer to apply max throttle out of the corner when bike is more upright. I don't know why but a get a buzz when the foot pegs on the VFR scrap but tend to use my boot toe slider as the gauge so I don't keep wearing out pegs. I have cut my leg a few times working on the bike walking around it when the pegs grind on the edge & become sharp. What I like most about the VFR is the stability & there is so much grip with modern tyres on there side walls you can scrap out a VFR so easy, but you do have to be careful because it is so easy that you don't go to far & hit something with no give & lose rear wheel traction. Was following friend that just went to far & his bike spun on the center stand like a top while he was sliding across the road.

ggathagan

ciprinakos

Did anybody did the front end conversion on an ABS VFR? Preserving the ABS is what's keeping me from atempting the upgrade. From what i've seen on this topic all the modified bikes were non ABS. CBS can be dropped ... I guess, but I'm not willing to do the same for ABS which saved my butt several times.

Thanks!

You'll note that more than just the forks are involved with these swaps.

ABS cannot be preserved for the same reason as the requirement to get rid of the linked braking setup: the new forks do not have the proper mounting bosses or proper wheel offset to retain the original brake calipers. Those calipers are needed for both linked brakes and ABS.

Given that the new forks are generally from a bike with better brakes, the trade-off between better brakes and linked/ABS brakes is usually considered part of the advantage.

Thanks for info. I can't complain much about brakes - I can use better pads if I'll need. My concern was, by changing suspension forks, to keep the ABS. Since I'll upgrade the rear I was thinking to do the same with the front ... bad luck :unsure:

I'm a bit late replying to this, but ...

VFR fork tubes will fit into Firestorm sliders, using the VFR springs and cartridges. So for a low cost upgrade, Firestorm sliders, front wheel spindle and mudguard, VFR fork tubes with your Maxton internals, 4 pot Nissin calipers from a Firestorm, Fireblade or CBR6 and a suitable master cylinder.

I got my Firestorm forks cheap because they were bent, and I already had a 14mm master cylinder (off a Speed Triple iirc), so my conversion came in at about £75

[image: IMG_2805.jpg]

I had my standard forks upgraded by HK in Holland. Using CBR600F4 innards, one fork tube handles the compression, the other rebound. The springs are Eibach (I think) and valving was done by HK based on my weight, my riding style and types of roads we have here in Turkey. I removed my forks and sent them to my buddy in Holland, who took them to HK so the exact details like spring rate, oil weight etc escape me which I'm terribly embarrassed to say. Here are the pictures:

[image: Guess who made them :-)]

[image: I got me some fancy adjusters (compression on the left, rebound on the right)]

I'd love to get upsidedownies and upgrade the brakes as well, but I don't want to loose the ABS like Ciprinakos. The roads in Turkey are slippery (lots of dust owing to ongoing constructions as well as low qualtiy asphalt) so I want the safety net of ABS. But then I also installed a Torocharger to my bike so I'm not the most coherent thinking man in VFRD.

Druid & Arrow

Thanks for the input - not too late as I've not even started on the bike rebuild yet - been organising our garden, rebulding shed, preparing to install a summerhouse so my wife has an art studio to balance the enormous amnount of time I will spend in the garage doing this VFR refurb :tour: .

I've had some interesting input from variosu sources, and have narrowed it all down to the following forks: R1 (00-01), Fireblade 929/954, CBR600F4i, or Aprilia Falco Showa's, which would mean getting an engineer to make me a spindle to combine the Honda & Aprilia Triple Tree, frame interface difference. Yeah, not so narrow, I know. I will probably be swayed by the combination that gives me the closest trail to std (rake of course being fixed). I've not done all the calculations yet, but hope to soon. Mind you, I did have a suggestion to just keep the Maxton adjusted std forks, make a bracket to take some CBR900 calipers and spend the dosh on some lightweight wheels :ohmy: - now that's just annoying, as it makes sense, and now I want it all :laugh:

Thanks againg all for your comments - i'm learning day by day.

Great thread ... as in most of us would like to do the same thing. :tour:

Cheers! E-Ticket

Mine was worth it for the bling factor the 6 piston calipers and 320mm rotors don't hurt.

[image: _IGP2411.JPG]

karhawk

Mine was worth it for the bling factor the 6 piston calipers and 320mm rotors don't hurt.

[image: _IGP2411.JPG]

what forks are those. year etc

I've got 2 4th gens, 1 w/ GSXR front end & 6 piston PM calipers squeazing 330mm full floating iron rotors and fox racing shock in the rear and I can't use it to its potential on the roads, whereas the other on has a stock front end w/ gold valves and a penske shock and its definately good enough for hard street riding (riding @ the pace). I have approx 1/8" chicken strips on the stock VFR rear and about 1/4" on the front and go thru my Pilot Powers about every 2500 miles. On the modified one , I run PP 2ct's and go thru them about every 1500-2000 miles and it seems to be harder on the front tire & no chicken strips on the rear(190 on RC 45 wheel). I feel for street riding a stock gold valved front end w/ a decent shock is your most bang for the buck. See my gallery pictures for pics of both.

What front fork, what a dam paint job. Man that's a gorgeous bike ..

Its pretty fun, was built as a AFM / AMA open superbike racer , than they changed the rules to allow 1000cc's , so I cut a hole in the fairing for a headlight and it's a potent backroad weapon

So far I like the F4i using 6th gen triples onto my 5th gen. However, I only have 0.95 springs up front and I'm currently 235lbs...at the start of last year I was 255 lbss...so I'm gradually going toward the correct front spring rate for my weight...problem is I always ride (except trackdays) with Givi bags and a tank bag.

The other thing that is now more apparent with the F4i forks is that I re-set the sag and set the comp and rebound in the middle of settings and I notice the rear end isn't following the front. Seems that the code on the Ohlins rear says the spring rate is stock...that HAS to change. I've ridden around this before and now how to manage this but I would be better suited and have a more stable bike tipping in and coming out of corners if the rear spring rate and fronts matched the bike well...

If anyone knows someone in Northern Virginia who can swap out an Ohlins spring (must have the Ohlins style spring compressor tool) let me know...maybe that Ducati dealership in Winchester?

Matt

For me, Wilbers springs & RaceTech valves combined with a Wilbers rear (with separate reservoir) did the trick nicely. I got it set up acc to my needs & I'm happy. I will not look too soon for another fork upgrade.

Last year I rode 700+ km/day twice on dry & pouring rain never losing traction or missing my intended trajectory. Even on the mountain trails (no tarmac but rocks & light mud) my front never faltered on both dry & wet - I did used Pirelli Scorpion Trail rubber :) . See relatedpics in the link bellow.

[image: 1525700_577365729000207_268795658_n_zps6]

I am running 2005 R1 forks in cbr954 triple trees with 2mm axle and rotor spacers, dan moto clip-ons and R1 wheel/brakes.

Its awesome, with 7 wt fluid and 1.1 kg/mm springs, rides smooth with no fork dive under braking. Brakes are phenomenal by the way.

The rear tire will lift effortlessly.

Thought I'd add my R1 conversion to the mix.

Details are here:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/77541-another-r1-front-end-conversion/

As I outlined in the post specifically about the conversion, I'm in complete agreement with the major change to the bikes handling.

It has built greater confidence and as someone else on this post has stated, with greater confidence comes better safety margins.

Must add that I've got an Ohlins on the rear as well.

I would do it again in a flash. Well worth it.

Here's a pic of the finished product.

Cheers

Phil

Chanting frantically....

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

"My redslut doesnot need USD"

:goofy:

It's not working .

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

"Dutchy needs USD"

EVERY single time I try to improve the performance of the front of my 4th gen, I regret it. For me, it just isn't worth it. I had an F4 front end on my last 4th gen, but other than the brakes, I hated it. Of course I didn't have time to properly set it up, but I digress. I drop the front 6 mm, change the fork oil and called it good on Charlotte. I can't haul A$$ here in VA like I use to in CA anyway

HighSideNZ

Thought I'd add my R1 conversion to the mix.

Details are here:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/77541-another-r1-front-end-conversion/

As I outlined in the post specifically about the conversion, I'm in complete agreement with the major change to the bikes handling.

It has built greater confidence and as someone else on this post has stated, with greater confidence comes better safety margins.

Must add that I've got an Ohlins on the rear as well.

I would do it again in a flash. Well worth it.

Here's a pic of the finished product.

Cheers

Phil

[image: attachicon.gif]20140629_131238-sml.jpg

Damn Phil you got me beat! lol that's the 07 plus R1 front end huh?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a 2010 model with the R1 front end.

We were lucky enough in NZ to still have them available new up until last year.

There are some dealers still with Gen 6 new stock on there floors.

R1 front end make a huge difference.

Phil

Did the VTR front on my 5th gen. Don't even bother this one unless you are getting new springs made for you. My couch has better springs. Whatever you are swapping. Get springs made.

vfrAustin

Did the VTR front on my 5th gen. Don't even bother this one unless you are getting new springs made for you. My couch has better springs. Whatever you are swapping. Get springs made.

Rider weight and preferred riding style may have some bearing on this.

The VTR is a bit lighter than the VFR so yep it probably runs a lighter spring.

my 95 with an 09cbr600rr front end. its a direct swap, nothing special needed. the whole thing bolts off the 600rr and onto the vfr and even the fork stops are perfect. The only thing I did was cut off the tab for the 600rr steering stabilizer or it would hit my tank.

[image: 20141023_080905_zps9bofqgty.jpg]

Can any one help. I replaced a leaking seal on my front forks, and it still leaks, would it possibly the upper or lower bush inside the slider, 1994 VFR750.

erbilabuc

my 95 with an 09cbr600rr front end. its a direct swap, nothing special needed. the whole thing bolts off the 600rr and onto the vfr and even the fork stops are perfect. The only thing I did was cut off the tab for the 600rr steering stabilizer or it would hit my tank.

[image: 20141023_080905_zps9bofqgty.jpg]

Have some details on that big wide rear wheel??

erbilabuc

my 95 with an 09cbr600rr front end. its a direct swap, nothing special needed. the whole thing bolts off the 600rr and onto the vfr and even the fork stops are perfect. The only thing I did was cut off the tab for the 600rr steering stabilizer or it would hit my tank.

[image: 20141023_080905_zps9bofqgty.jpg]

i think your the first to do a 600RR swap. Good to know ..

ciprinakos

For me, Wilbers springs & RaceTech valves combined with a Wilbers rear (with separate reservoir) did the trick nicely. I got it set up acc to my needs & I'm happy. I will not look too soon for another fork upgrade.

Last year I rode 700+ km/day twice on dry & pouring rain never losing traction or missing my intended trajectory. Even on the mountain trails (no tarmac but rocks & light mud) my front never faltered on both dry & wet - I did used Pirelli Scorpion Trail rubber :) . See relatedpics in the link bellow.

One option for you would be to use F4i internals in your VFR forks, this would gain you rebound adjustment only.

I just finished updating my 97 VFR with 01 CBR 929RR front Forks and 06 CBR 600RR fairings. The 929 forks are about as easy a swap as possible however it fits pretty tight in relation to the radiator, both in lock to lock turning and full compression. I cut and clocked the upper radiator mounts to pull it in tighter and pulled the bottom in tighter to finally get everything to fit. The change in offset and height shortened the wheelbase a tad but the bike turns in like a proper sportbike now and both the handling and brakes have much more confidence. I have the 929rr rear shock as well but wanted to put time on just the front end first to understand the difference in feel between the two changes.

[image: 97 VFCBR Hybrid]

Nice! Can we get more pics or a link to a build?

I just posted.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/80304-97-vfr-750-to-vfcbr-conversion/

And yes it was worth it on my 97 VFR to 929 susp/600rr body VFCBR converison!!!

[image: VFR 2 VFCBR]

So instead of reading impossible volumes of threads, I figured I'd throw out this question:

Is it possible to drop the F4i internals + fork cap into my 6th gen's forks to gain rebound adjustability?

Or is swapping out the entire fork(s) necessary (i.e. tube-cartridge assy and brake callipers)?

That way I could keep the original CBS brake set-up (roadworthy inspections are getting stricter and stricter in Spain)

I've put up with the sloppy front end on this thing for too long now and seeing how the new 8th gen has rebound adjustment I figure that's all that's really missing.

here's the thread where one guy does his F4I internals swap:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/53881-what-fork-oil-wt-with-f4i-internals-mod/

Posts #17 and #18 have some key issues noted with this "swap". You do retain "adjustability" but I think you don't have adjustability on the FLY if you swap the VFR forks with the F4i forks...

Have fun and be safe.

Matt

FWIW I did the complete F4i swap on the front end of my 2000 5th Gen...I run 6th gen triples and use F4i forks, the 5th gen front wheel, F4i brakes, F4i MC and a F4i front fender. Here's the thread where I started asking...BTW I didn't document my swap very well...I'm not the greatest poster on the forum...

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/72069-6th-gen-f4-fork-swap-questions/

This post has a pic of a dude who had his innards swapped out by HK in Holland: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/69986-front-end-conversion-was-yours-worth-it/?p=830492

The think that's neat is they separated Rebound from Compression - one fork handles Reb and the other comp...so you can adjust both comp and reb on the fly instead of having to take internals out of both forks and adjust then put back in...

While with limited budget and skill, I did nothing more than swap the fork lowers with the Firestorm ones to get the 4-pots on my Gen 4. Internals remained the same. The brakes are better, it looks OEM and helped me bond that little bit more with the motorcycle. In my mind, it makes it more 'mine'...

[image: DSC00457%20Small%202_zpsj5zzxdlf.jpg]

I searched all over the forum and I didn't find the answer so I ask here:

Can VTR/Firestorm/Friehawk fork legs be mounted on 3rd gen fork? I would say yes since the manual states fork is the same from 93 (last year for 3rd Gen) to 97 (4th Gen). Mine is from 1993.

I believe for my restoration, I'll go this route with revalved/properly set internals and a better rear shock. I like Racetech but Maxton has good reviews here and from France, I will be easier (and also cheaper) to get something from UK than from the US (I'm thinking Jamie Daugherty here).

I like USD forks but this seems to be expensive to buy (considering it's used and needs a rebuild anyway) and there's so many stuff to adjust or relocate that in the end, if I need one, I better buy a CBR 600 ;-)

Thanks for your answer(s).

HighSideNZ, 7/4/2014 at 9:16 PM

Thought I'd add my R1 conversion to the mix.

Details are here:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/77541-another-r1-front-end-conversion/

As I outlined in the post specifically about the conversion, I'm in complete agreement with the major change to the bikes handling.

It has built greater confidence and as someone else on this post has stated, with greater confidence comes better safety margins.

Must add that I've got an Ohlins on the rear as well.

I would do it again in a flash. Well worth it.

Here's a pic of the finished product.

Cheers

Phil

I was looking for this post Phil mentioned 'Another R1 Front End Conversion' however a search does not find it or anything like it :( I guess this was lost when the forum software was upgraded a while back :(

Hello All, 

I’m after a late model R1 front end (2008-now) to graft onto my 5th gen. Based in England. 

Have posted under classifieds. 

Already have the 6 pot calipers and wheel - now need the rest (triples, rotors, axle and possibly brake master?). 

Lost some money on a set off eBay that we’re destroyed internally. 

Some reasonable eBay listings in US but shipping and taxes make it impossible. 

Can anyone help? Please message if you can. 

Thanks in advance, 

Stray 

Stray, 12/21/2017 at 4:09 AM

Hello All, 

I’m after a late model R1 front end (2008-now) to graft onto my 5th gen. Based in England. 

Have posted under classifieds. 

Already have the 6 pot calipers and wheel - now need the rest (triples, rotors, axle and possibly brake master?). 

Lost some money on a set off eBay that we’re destroyed internally. 

Some reasonable eBay listings in US but shipping and taxes make it impossible. 

Can anyone help? Please message if you can. 

Thanks in advance, 

Stray 

Aren't you just going to use the typical CBR929 upper and RC51 Lower triple trees?

In my case where I swapped out the stock 5th gen lowers to Super hawks doing the de link.  I can say whole heartily the best up grade right along with the rear shock fix one can do IMO.

CandyRedRC46, 02/01/2018 at 7:09 PM

Aren't you just going to use the typical CBR929 upper and RC51 Lower triple trees?

There are are a few threads on here where R1 triples have been used successfully. Was going to go that route because it’s always best to match up all the components in the swap. Piecing it together would have been a pain as CBR triples have different fork gap to R1 and I’d be messing about with spacers to make wheel/calipers/axle/rotors fit. 

But now change of plans - just picked up some Kawasaki ZX6R 2007 radial forks. They were a steal so going to try fitting these. Just need to gather the other bits now (calipers, rotors, triples etc.). 

There are Suzuki, Yam and CBR front ends all over the place but mine might be the first Kwak! 

Stray

12 hours ago, Stray

There are are a few threads on here where R1 triples have been used successfully. Was going to go that route because it’s always best to match up all the components in the swap. Piecing it together would have been a pain as CBR triples have different fork gap to R1 and I’d be messing about with spacers to make wheel/calipers/axle/rotors fit. 

But now change of plans - just picked up some Kawasaki ZX6R 2007 radial forks. They were a steal so going to try fitting these. Just need to gather the other bits now (calipers, rotors, triples etc.). 

There are Suzuki, Yam and CBR front ends all over the place but mine might be the first Kwak! 

Stray

So you would rather piece together something on the steering stem/bearings, than add disc and axle spacers?

CandyRedRC46, 04/01/2018 at 1:47 PM

So you would rather piece together something on the steering stem/bearings, than add disc and axle spacers?

No, I’m going to try fit the complete ZX6R font on. It’s probably easier to change stem bearings and keep everything else from the same donor than mess about with spacers everywhere. 

Oddly enough, calipers are pretty interchangeable among Japanese radial bikes (most have 108mm centres I believe, whereas European bikes have 100mm).

Everything else is a nightmare to swap, primarily because of rotor spacing, bolt pattern and size. 

Got parts coming in bits-and-pieces as couldn’t afford to buy a complete front end in one hit, which would have been the preferred option. 

Because I wanted matching wheels, I have  05 gixxer 600 yokes/stem forks and calipers Gixxer/hayabusa 320mm rotors and an 848 front wheel. With a spacer or 2.

I want to upgrade to Yamaha monoblock calipers, or newer zx10 calipers.

17 hours ago, Stray

No, I’m going to try fit the complete ZX6R font on. It’s probably easier to change stem bearings and keep everything else from the same donor than mess about with spacers everywhere. 

Oddly enough, calipers are pretty interchangeable among Japanese radial bikes (most have 108mm centres I believe, whereas European bikes have 100mm).

Everything else is a nightmare to swap, primarily because of rotor spacing, bolt pattern and size. 

Got parts coming in bits-and-pieces as couldn’t afford to buy a complete front end in one hit, which would have been the preferred option. 

I think you are exaggerating the spacer "mess", while severely down playing critical specs like fork length/bearing sizing/steering stem length/ride height/fork spacing/offset/rake/trail/etc.

There is a reason most people stick with the tried and true cbr929 upper and cbr929 or rc51 sp1 lower triple trees.

14 hours ago, keef

Because I wanted matching wheels, I have  05 gixxer 600 yokes/stem forks and calipers Gixxer/hayabusa 320mm rotors and an 848 front wheel. With a spacer or 2.

I want to upgrade to Yamaha monoblock calipers, or newer zx10 calipers.

Though lacking that sweet brembo emblem, the Yamaha calipers are phenomenal.

My MT09 has them. With the fz1MC, braided lines and 320mm rotors they are very effing good. 

CandyRedRC46, 11/01/2018 at 3:24 PM

Though lacking that sweet brembo emblem, the Yamaha calipers are phenomenal.

I’ve got them on my other bike and they’re awesome. 

Legend is they are an old Brembo design from when Yamaha bought a stake in the firm. 

CandyRedRC46, 11/01/2018 at 3:22 PM

I think you are exaggerating the spacer "mess", while severely down playing critical specs like fork length/bearing sizing/steering stem length/ride height/fork spacing/offset/rake/trail/etc.

There is a reason most people stick with the tried and true cbr929 upper and cbr929 or rc51 sp1 lower triple trees.

Guess I’ll find out when I get there but you have to agree that nearly every kind of front end has been put on a VFR and no one has fallen off one yet (due to the front end, that is). 

If there’s something wrong with the Kawa ZX6R setup please let me know. 

There are RC51s, CBR600F4i, CBR600RRs, Suzuki TLs, GSXRs, R1s (plenty, with R1 yokes) and Hayabusas to name a few. That’s just the ones I’ve read about. I bet there are loads more. 

I’ve looked into rake and trail and don’t perceive any great difficulties there. After all a similar offset to the Kawasaki yokes has been used in other super sport conversions with no ill effects. 

Not too concerned about ride height because forks are long enough for my planned superbike bars (forks will slide down clamp further than on ZX6R), so will be close to stock. 

Spacers scare me on the axle. Machine them just a gnat’s hair out they will play merry hell with the bearings at high speed. Not nearly as much strain on steering stem. Anyway, I may press the VFR stem into the Kawa yokes just to make sure. 

I’m not an expert but get the feeling a lot of folks worry too much about rake/trail/ride height changes. In my younger days we used to drop the forks up to 3 inches through the clamps to quicken up steering on old race bikes. It also made forks stiffer (shorter forks flex less). Stem angle remains the same as that is down to headstock (although dropping forks does steepen the angle a small amount).

Never had a problem then and don’t anticipate one now, but I’ve been wrong before. If you think my setup is flawed please let me know. I’d appreciate the input.  

Will see when I get there I guess. 

Stray

I have seen a few R1 front end swap with cbr929 triples, mine included, but I have never seen a VFR with R1 forks and triple trees. 

While not exactly entirely R1, the front end on my 5th gen is a combination of R1 yokes, FZ1 forks / brakes /wheel and 50mm fork extensions to enable me to use VFR1200 clip ons. I'm happy with the result! :-)

[image: 2016-09-04 18.00.03.jpg]

shaynus, 1/16/2018 at 10:07 AM

While not exactly entirely R1, the front end on my 5th gen is a combination of R1 yokes, FZ1 forks / brakes /wheel and 50mm fork extensions to enable me to use VFR1200 clip ons. I'm happy with the result! :-)

[image: 2016-09-04 18.00.03.jpg]

Thats pretty cool!

9 hours ago, CandyRedRC46

Thats pretty cool!

Thank you!

(I think so too!) :-)

Hey Shaynus, where'd you get the fork extensions from?

12 hours ago, keef

Hey Shaynus, where'd you get the fork extensions from?

http://www.extremecreations.com.au

From your neck of the woods keef. They do a range of extensions for Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, etc, forks.

I originally ordered a set to suit the '99 R1 forks I was going to use, then came across the FZ1 forks (which look nicer to my eyes, being all black). Had to get a new lower (small) extension piece made as the R1 have a different size thread in the bottom of them 10mm vs 12mm or something like that). They are only available in a black finish.

I knew ben made some, was wondering if there was another lead. 

He does a set for an MT09 which I’d love to get- it would make it feel like a motard. 

FinnRC36, 1/25/2012 at 6:14 AM

I am very happy with my VTR forks and '99 CBR900RR (same as RC51/F4i/CBR929) brakes. I did the fork valving myself without any prior experience and got lucky as they feel very good. Couldn't you use the Maxton internals in the VTR forks? I think they would switch over very easily.

Just to clarify this, or indeed correct it, although the calliper fitment is the same on all the above, they are not all the same.

The CBR900RRW/X and the SP-1 (early RC51) all have 32 and 34mm pistons. The later RC51 (SP-2) and 954 'Blade use 30 and 32 pistons (same as later radial callipers) and the CBR929 (CBR900RRY/1) has 30 and 34 pistons. The differences are not huge, but they are different.

Now that 8th gen parts are becoming more and more available via ebay. I was able to do all 2014 suspension/wheel/rotors with Brembo monoblocks.

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Jealous of the monoblocks.

Nice work.

MiniCarver, 1/7/2019 at 2:56 PM

Now that 8th gen parts are becoming more and more available via ebay. I was able to do all 2014 suspension/wheel/rotors with Brembo monoblocks.

[image: 00000IMG_00000_BURST20181230140200759_COVER.jpg]

Hey MiniCarver --- I think you may have the near ultimate VFR there with the 6th based and 5th engine plus 8th wheels and monoblocks.. 

>>>>Wow, just frick'n WOW! --- If I get your way, I would love to see it in person. 

You Carvers blow me away..  :beer:

I got to sit on Mini-Carvers 5th/6th Gen at the last Summer Summit in South Dakota. (Yeah, he offered to let me ride it but he's about a foot taller and the bike is definitely set up for him). Super well thought out and executed. He showed me the cast-in boss on the Fifth Gen engine that he bolted the VTEC solenoid to-like Honda knew someone was going to do this swap. A RWB 6th Gen WITH cam gear whine AND dual Staintunes!?  Outstanding. If I win the lottery...  Oh, his dad rides a 6th Gen WITH a TORO Charger, yes quite the team.

23 hours ago, mello dude

Hey MiniCarver --- I think you may have the near ultimate VFR there with the 6th based and 5th engine plus 8th wheels and monoblocks.. 

>>>>Wow, just frick'n WOW! --- If I get your way, I would love to see it in person. 

You Carvers blow me away..  :beer:

If you get my way I'll let you ride it lol. I couldn't be happier with how it turned out.

MiniCarver, 1/12/2019 at 6:55 AM

If you get my way I'll let you ride it lol. I couldn't be happier with how it turned out.

What's the go with retaining the VTEC solenoid? To "fool" the existing ECU into believing it's still "driving" a 6th-Gen engine?

EX-XX, ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 4:43 PM

What's the go with retaining the VTEC solenoid? To "fool" the existing ECU into believing it's still "driving" a 6th-Gen engine?

When trying to figure out how to fool the 6th gen ECU and trying to check resistances to see if I could jumper it or eliminate it completely, I actually found that the v-tec solenoid valve plugs in to the wiring harness as a single blade powered wire, and to complete the circuit, the solenoid valve itself is grounded to the top of the engine block, inside the V underneath the thermostat housing. so I removed the solenoid valve from a donor 2002 engine and bolted it to the outside of the frame just above one of the engine mounts and ran the wire through the opening for the coolant line and it works perfectly.

We actually did a track day after I finished the build and I mounted a gopro on the lower right hand fairing and the recorded video picked up the solenoid valve "clicking" attempting to engage v-tec every time I got up to the engagement rpm range. little does my 2002 ECU know, my 5th gen engine has v-tec engaged at all times 😈 lol

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[image: 1319898807.png]

MiniCarver Now that 8th gen parts are becoming more and more available via ebay. I was able to do all 2014 suspension/wheel/rotors with Brembo monoblocks.
[image: IMAG3850.thumb.jpg.a2bab332b8cb80c4aae1c20314d15e0d.jpg]
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8 hours ago, richieg

Iiking the 8th gen forks and brakes...can you do a build thread for us? Interested in doing the same for my 6th gen and keen to know if the 6th gen fork uppers and brake master cylinders can be used...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
 

I'm working on a build thread but i'm working with 150 gb of data between timelapse video's and pictures so it's taking me more time than I thought. and theoretically the 6th gen master cylinder will fit on the 8th gen but i'm not sure what the difference in the bore size is between 6th and 8th gen master cylinders. I would just try to find a used 8th gen master cylinder on ebay if you don't want to cough up the extra money for a radial master cylinder. as far as the upper fork tubes, they're both 43mm tubes and the length is the same, when I had my forks rebuild by traxxion they used my 2002 fork tubes because the 8th generation fork tubes were slightly bent. 

8 hours ago, richieg

keen to know if the 6th gen fork uppers and brake master cylinders can be used...

Well, the answer to this and many other questions may be found in the service manuals. Conveniently, pdfs are available right here on VFRD - goto Browse--> Downloads to get your copy.

Btw, according to Honda, both 6th & 8th Gen use a 14 mm master cylinder at the front, but different sizes on the rear. JZH may be able to verify these figures.

21 hours ago, Lorne

Well, the answer to this and many other questions may be found in the service manuals. Conveniently, pdfs are available right here on VFRD - goto Browse--> Downloads to get your copy.

Btw, according to Honda, both 6th & 8th Gen use a 14 mm master cylinder at the front, but different sizes on the rear. JZH may be able to verify these figures.

Yes They both use a 14mm master cylinder, but Honda did change the part number. Could be the way the new switch boxes hook up to the master cylinder for horn/brake switch. Or it could just be a different color. As far as the "answer to this can be found in the service manual" I have to disagree. These parts (to my knowledge) have never been swapped between these bikes thus far so you won't just find an answer for these conversions. 

The General Information sections in the front of the Honda Workshop Manuals are the most reliable specification data I know of--certainly for Honda comparison purposes.  The Workshop Manuals contain very little part number data (only for things like special tools), so you also need to have access to the Parts Manuals or microfiche (or what used to be on microfiche!), but those contain very little specifications data (other than things like o-ring and seal dimensions).

I don't think Lorne meant that all such questions could be answered by reference to the Honda manuals.  But some, like M/C and brake piston sizes, can be.

As you note, different part numbers could refer to many different things, such as paint colour, mounting tab positioning--or to completely different internal designs or incompatible fitments.  Sometimes you just have to get the parts in-hand and get out the digital calipers.  That's what I had to do to acquire my triple clamp data--thank you eBay!

JZH, ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 7:31 AM

The General Information sections in the front of the Honda Workshop Manuals are the most reliable specification data I know of--certainly for Honda comparison purposes.  The Workshop Manuals contain very little part number data (only for things like special tools), so you also need to have access to the Parts Manuals or microfiche (or what used to be on microfiche!), but those contain very little specifications data (other than things like o-ring and seal dimensions).

I don't think Lorne meant that all such questions could be answered by reference to the Honda manuals.  But some, like M/C and brake piston sizes, can be.

As you note, different part numbers could refer to many different things, such as paint colour, mounting tab positioning--or to completely different internal designs or incompatible fitments.  Sometimes you just have to get the parts in-hand and get out the digital calipers.  That's what I had to do to acquire my triple clamp data--thank you eBay!

trial and error is exactly what I've been doing lol. I use the service manual for torque settings, but the microfiche will give me the bolt lengths and size, piston sizes, and will also tell me which parts were used on which different models/years. 

I literally just bought a new dogbone for my suspension on ebay just for test fitting because it was 14 bucks lol.

erbilabuc, 10/31/2014 at 12:30 AM

my 95 with an 09cbr600rr front end. its a direct swap, nothing special needed. the whole thing bolts off the 600rr and onto the vfr and even the fork stops are perfect. The only thing I did was cut off the tab for the 600rr steering stabilizer or it would hit my tank.

[image: 20141023_080905_zps9bofqgty.jpg]

I know this thread isn't alive much anymore but the information here is super helpful. As to the quoted post, is there any follow up by anyone who's tried this yet? The OP did it on a 4th gen; are there enough significant differences, between 4th & 5th gen, to rule this out for a 2000? 

Looks like you'd need to do a de-link to the 2000, and use the CBR wheel as well (whole front end).  Wondering what the Gemoetry looks like compared to 5th Gen Stock?  

https://www.motorera.com/honda/h0800/intercep.htm

• CHASSIS / SUSPENSION / BRAKES

• • Suspension: Front: 41mm HMAS cartridge fork with stepless spring preload adjustability; 4.7 inches travel
  • Rear: Pro-Arm single-sided swingarm with Pro-Link-mounted, HMAS gas-charged shock with 7-position spring preload and stepless rebound damping adjustability; 4.7 inches travel
  • Brakes: Front: Dual 296mm disc with LBS three-piston calipers
  • Rear: 256mm disc with LBS three-piston caliper
  • Tires: Front: 120/70ZR-17 radial
  • Rear: 180/55ZR-I7 radial
• DIMENSION
  • Wheelbase: 56.7 inches
  • Rake: (Caster Angle) 25.3'
  • Trail: 95.0 mm (3.74 inches)

• • Rake: (Caster Angle) 25.3'
  • Trail: 95.0 mm (3.74 inches)

That would be interesting. Thanks for the reply. 

 

The main difference is that the 600RR forks are a lot shorter than the RC46 forks.  The fork stops might not be quite right, but they can be modified.  As far a geometry goes, if the shorter forks make the bike turn too quick, your only easy option would be to lower the rear to match...

Ciao,

JZH

Want to get the f4i forks and etc. Do you guys have any experience with these risers and if there would be a problem? 

 

[image: handles.jpg]

JZH, 7/16/2019 at 10:11 PM

The main difference is that the 600RR forks are a lot shorter than the RC46 forks.  The fork stops might not be quite right, but they can be modified.  As far a geometry goes, if the shorter forks make the bike turn too quick, your only easy option would be to lower the rear to match...

Ciao,

JZH

If doing CBR600F4 forks on VFR800, then the best option for 5th gen is to use Vtec, yokes & stanchions with CBR lowers. Most cartridges have an over stroke, so just need to confirm the extra length of the 6th gen stanchion is within the over stroke. range of the CBR cartridge !  If not you may be able to mix & match parts to make a working cartridge.

Having owner a number of bikes during my life and still having a 98 gen 5 since 1999, I love to check back on the discussion site to see what’s going on with you all. The amount of time, money and effort spent on making one’s VFR as fast as Marquez’s Honda is mind boggling. 

I’ve  always enjoyed my VFR and other a few small changes have pretty much left it alone. First thing I did was to replace the stock shock with a Fox twin clicker and then later with a Penske; didn’t feel much difference! Read about lots of folks delinking the brakes but decided against it; I like being able to use the rear brake on steep downhills in the rain! Also better for playing with the ADV crowd wrestling their 550lbs GS elephants down rocky Jeep trails! As for the forks... I’ve used the RaceTech dampers in both a KLR250 and my VTR1000. What a pain it is to take the forks apart to change the damping! Anybody try DMr for some help? 

Anyway, keep up the good work guys and keep sending in those photos! 

dozyproductions, 8/1/2019 at 8:14 AM

Want to get the f4i forks and etc. Do you guys have any experience with these risers and if there would be a problem? 

 

[image: handles.jpg]

ABM is a sold "alt-Schule" German brand, so everything they sell will have had TUV paperwork and be perfectly suitable.  If you get something like that, make sure it inlcudes the correct handlebar--the angle of the bend is critical to make sure the switchgear and lever clear the windcreen support part of the upper fairing.

The CBR600F4i forks are much longer than the CBR600RR forks you were talking about before, almost VFR length, so they should work well.  The forks are 43mm diameter, so the RC46 clamps won't work.

Ciao,

JZH

Thanks my man. Appreciate it. 

Im in the process of doing an 05 R1 front end swap on my 02 VFR. I started off planning to go the SP2 route, just sourcing the factory parts to make it work. Ended up in a conversation with SebSpeed one day over availability of parts and the ins and outs of what I'd need to complete the setup and he threw the R1 idea at me. He had just got a deposit for a set of custom triples to make the R1 front end work without spacing the wheel or rotors. After about 30 seconds of googling R1 parts and realizing the availability and prices were hands down way better I quickly changed directions and shot him a deposit for the triples. Because of the length difference in fork tubes and the need for clip ons to be above the tree, Sebastian decided to replicate the 954/929 upper tree with a 19mm drop down on the outsides of the tree. This will allow me to run VFR1200 clip ons above the tree and not only be extremely close to factory ride height, but give me hand placement near factory specs as well.  I have accumulated nearly all the big ticket items and Sebastian is almost done with the trees so it wont be long before the VFR goes under the knife! I went ahead and decided to send the forks to Jamie and have him re-spring the front end as I'm a heavy rider in full gear. This will match nicely with my rebuilt/revalved/resprung F4i rear shock. 

My bike has 63k on the clock and stock suspension so to say I'm excited to see the outcome of this new setup is an understatement. I ride the bike hard on the street and track so I can't wait for it to actually not fight me during corners!

4 hours ago, RyleeV4

4 hours ago, RyleeV4

Im in the process of doing an 05 R1 front end swap on my 02 VFR. I started off planning to go the SP2 route, just sourcing the factory parts to make it work. Ended up in a conversation with SebSpeed one day over availability of parts and the ins and outs of what I'd need to complete the setup and he threw the R1 idea at me. He had just got a deposit for a set of custom triples to make the R1 front end work without spacing the wheel or rotors. After about 30 seconds of googling R1 parts and realizing the availability and prices were hands down way better I quickly changed directions and shot him a deposit for the triples. Because of the length difference in fork tubes and the need for clip ons to be above the tree, Sebastian decided to replicate the 954/929 upper tree with a 19mm drop down on the outsides of the tree. This will allow me to run VFR1200 clip ons above the tree and not only be extremely close to factory ride height, but give me hand placement near factory specs as well.  I have accumulated nearly all the big ticket items and Sebastian is almost done with the trees so it wont be long before the VFR goes under the knife! I went ahead and decided to send the forks to Jamie and have him re-spring the front end as I'm a heavy rider in full gear. This will match nicely with my rebuilt/revalved/resprung F4i rear shock. 

My bike has 63k on the clock and stock suspension so to say I'm excited to see the outcome of this new setup is an understatement. I ride the bike hard on the street and track so I can't wait for it to actually not fight me during corners!

Sounds great, don't forget to post up photos of the build up and assembly...

Stock RC45 front end is high quality but my goal was to drop the weight and pick up the pace...

You're looking at over 8k in parts and over 8K in manual machining... but hey it was a labor of love...

1 Home made magnesium Triple Clamps with 35mm offset... $1,200
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2 Ohlins FG310 Superbike Forks... $1,500
[image: 1922123823_3a08c7852c_o.jpg]

3 Ferodo Ceramic Matrix Composite Front Disc... $2,300
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4 Brembo billet radial Front Calipers... $1,500
[image: 3193188896_9d34585b46_o.jpg]

5 Home made Magnesium radial caliper mounts... $1,000
[image: 833790051_b85a11c78b_o.jpg]

6 Marchesini Magnesium 3.5x17 Front Rim that was owned by Wayne Rainey
when he sponsored Jimmy Felice YZ250R... $500
[image: 3193188896_9d34585b46_o.jpg]

9 Brembo radial Front Brake master cylinder $275
[image: 1464360262_52e0a40359_o.jpg]

10 Brembo billet radial clutch master cylinder $375
[image: gallery_3131_51_7998.jpg]

7 Homemade 7075 T6 Bar Risers... $450

[image: RC45BarRisersCables.JPG]

8 home made 7075 T6 aluminum Front Axle... $350

[image: FortalAxleComparo.JPG]

5 hours ago, mello dude

Sounds great, don't forget to post up photos of the build up and assembly...

I have a build thread going in the 6th gen forum. Have been trying to add photos as stuff shows up

Just did the f4i swap and revalve on my 5th gen. Got a nice rear shock to compliment it. Worth it. Have more confidence in turns and on uneven ground. Feels like a new bike. Also, the adjustability is a fantastic tool and the cbr front fairing looks great on a VFR. With proper parts, it's a drop in swap. The only problem I had was sketchy sellers and buying "straight" forks. 

While you're there, steel brake lines should be a must. You can knock off a lot of check marks in one job. 

VTR 100O FORKS lowers, Daughtry DMS custom built adjustable inserts, F4I calipers and master. Brembo rear caliper and master. someone on the forum is making a bracket for the Brembo

Hi all,

Very new to this forum and only owned my VFR 5th gen for 3years now, but been a motorcyclist all my life and they've been my primary mode of transport for the past 20years. I always wanted to own a V4 and the 5th gen always seemed to get great reviews so decided to buy one to see what all the fuss was about.......That's the introduction over. 

Where do I start with the front end feel, or lack of, from my bike!! I've fitted a new Hagon rear shock (built to my weight) and have serviced my forks with new 7.5w oil (as factory) in the past month, I've also got new Pirelli Rosso II tyres on the beast and I replaced the head-bearings soon after buying the bike (and its only done 1000miles since) and there's no free play in the wheel or swingarm bearings. 

So the usual things that should be checked first when having front end issues are all done, however, the vague feeling from my VFR's front end still plague me. I'm not Barry Sheene (or Kenny Roberts for our American cousins), but I don't hang about either and although its been a few years since my last trackday, I used to sit comfortably in the fast group and could get my fat ass around the Nurburgring in under 8:30mins so, not bragging, I feel I can handle a bike at speed as well as the next guy.

The bike was bog stock when I bought it and had been loved by its previous owner who had been its sole owner before I came along, and has no signs that its ever been upside down or anything that could bend it out of shape.

The issue I have is the rebound has absolutely no damping (or at least feels that way). I was a fanatical subscriber to Performance Bikes magazine in the UK (now part of Practical Sportsbike) and started with their suggestions for suspension settings which was preload fully in; which was to be frank, fooking dangerous. I've since started to back it off and I'm now at 7full turns out, which is between the 2nd and 3rd indicator line on the preload adjusters. I've also dropped the yokes through the forks by 6mm (which is 45mm through from top of yoke, where Haynes magazine states factory is 39mm). Finally, I've lifted the clip-ons and turned them outwards to increase leverage and all of this has helped the bike turn in and improve the feel, but the bike still has this "vagueness" in what the front tyre is doing. The forks will wallow on some turns and it runs wide once back on the gas as the turn is completed. I'm going to try heavier weight oil in the forks to see if this helps slow the rebound down a bit but I'm not convinced it'll do much if anything.

So I'm now beginning to consider new fork internals and as I have Maxton shock and fork internals on my 2005 SV1000s which is my track bike, I thought I'd speak to them first.

All of this is a very rambling, round-about way of asking, has anyone had the Maxton GP20 cartridges fitted to their 4th, 5th or 6th gen VFR. The GP20 upgrade cartridges currently retail at £420 inc VAT so its a substantial outlay for a £2K, 20year old machine that only gets used 2-3K miles a year, so would like to hear any opinions from those who've splashed the cash.

Just to be clear, I'm not interested in swapping out forks with different model units from the CBR range or the SP1/ SP2 or even R1. For one, these units are becoming very rare to purchase in the UK at sensible prices and two, this isn't my main bike, only summer use commuter and occasional tour to European GP's and isn't worth the investment. All I want is to improve the bike to a point where I know if a throw it into a corner, like I can on my other bikes, the thing will stay underneath me and at least attempt to hold the line I want to ride.

I've attached a quick picture of my bike as in some earlier posts I've done, forum members have been interested in seeing it.

Thanks. Pete

The OEM yokes have 40mm offset; SP1/CBR has 30mm offset (VFR1200 has 35mm offset).  Just a thought.

Ciao,

JZH

Well using 7.5wt oil is the major problem. You have a valve system that is around 20years old. Depending on mileage & fork oil changes will determine the amount of wear. 
 

They were poorly damped when new, so using 10 or 15wt oil would be a good start. Then it’s a choice of either upgrade the valves or the cartridges, or replacing the forks.

There are plenty of threads here on how to or what worked for others.

Have fun 👍

Oh in answer to the question, Yes. 
VFR Stanchions, VTR sliders, Traxxion Dynamic Cartridges & CBR929 callipers 👍😎

Thanks Mohawk,

mileage is just over 30k so just about run in really😉
 

my guess is the forks have never been serviced prior to me working on the bike so it’s a fair suggestion that wear and tear maybe part of the problem, although in my defence, no obvious wear was visible on the bushes but that doesn’t mean the cartridge internals aren’t knackered.

I’ll start with trying heavier oil but I’m not convinced of the improvement.

ill post once done though.

Pete

9 hours ago, petarm

So I'm now beginning to consider new fork internals and as I have Maxton shock and fork internals on my 2005 SV1000s which is my track bike, I thought I'd speak to them first.

 ^^^ This is what you need to do.

You’ve had decent suspension and, now, have that experience to compare to something stock. You’re never going to be happy with stock components, from now on. Just spend the money on Maxton internals.
 

All my bikes have their front and rear suspensions reworked. It’s just a given, for me. 

petarm, 6/24/2020 at 11:49 AM

Just to be clear, I'm not interested in swapping out forks with different model units from the CBR range or the SP1/ SP2 or even R1. For one, these units are becoming very rare to purchase in the UK at sensible prices and two, this isn't my main bike, only summer use commuter and occasional tour to European GP's and isn't worth the investment. All I want is to improve the bike to a point where I know if a throw it into a corner, like I can on my other bikes, the thing will stay underneath me and at least attempt to hold the line I want to ride.

If you're looking at changing the internals I would also recommend getting adjustable forks. Then again I bought mine in Poland but... it has been such a huge plus when updating the suspension that any less will seem like a half measure. Finally got mine dialed in and it has helped so much with confidence in the corners. Perhaps that's necessary when you start putting in cbr forks in the first place. 

petarm, 6/24/2020 at 2:44 PM

Thanks Mohawk,

mileage is just over 30k so just about run in really😉
 

my guess is the forks have never been serviced prior to me working on the bike so it’s a fair suggestion that wear and tear maybe part of the problem, although in my defence, no obvious wear was visible on the bushes but that doesn’t mean the cartridge internals aren’t knackered.

I’ll start with trying heavier oil but I’m not convinced of the improvement.

ill post once done though.

Pete

So Pete...how far did you get?

This summer I sold my KTM Adventure 990 for a 4th gen with 20k miles & no service history. The viffer suspension is shite.

After much t'internet research I'm just about to give half of what I paid for the bike to Maxton for an NR4 shock & SD25 cartridges.

For me, this option is the best value for money vs what I need the bike to do. Will service the chassis components & fit new tyres while changing the suspension. And then wait out the winter before being able to enjoy a sorted bike 😀

3 hours ago, klugu

The viffer suspension is shite.

After much t'internet research I'm just about to give half of what I paid for the bike to Maxton for an NR4 shock & SD25 cartridges.

You will get value from the suspension upgrades every time you ride. It will be safer, more relaxing and more comfortable. I have never regretted suspension $$ (and I've done them on all my bikes). Ducnut was 100% correct: "You’ve had decent suspension and, now, have that experience to compare to something stock. You’re never going to be happy with stock components, from now on. "

15 hours ago, Terry

You will get value from the suspension upgrades every time you ride. It will be safer, more relaxing and more comfortable. I have never regretted suspension $$ (and I've done them on all my bikes). Ducnut was 100% correct: "You’ve had decent suspension and, now, have that experience to compare to something stock. You’re never going to be happy with stock components, from now on. "

^^^ This.  I jumped on the chance to re-purchase the VFR I sold nine years ago because it was tuned for me, by me.  The idea of buying a stock bike and even riding it for a bit before hitting the suspension mods hard has never, ever appealed to me since riding what I have.  

That being said, for the original post...when I've looked at front end conversion it falls under the column of "If you're riding hard enough for that to make a difference then you must be on a track."  At the same time I can feel the difference between the 5th gen and moderately wider/stiffer 6th gen forks in street cornering so...YMMV.  I do dump that kind of effort into my mountain bikes and adjustability for conditions and age of damping oil is a requirement, but I've just never seen it as worth the effort for the VFR on the street.  I'm sure I would feel the difference, but I have tried to constrain myself to "80% is good enough" here 😄

I've had stock 5G, modified 5G (replaced springs and Gold Valves) and then modified 600F4i forks on my 5G. Bang for buck, the modified 5G fork is pretty good and maybe 95% of what the 600F4i fork offered. The latter seemed to have better quality/design bushings that made for lower friction and a better ride, and the 43mm vs 41mm stanchions were definitely less prone to flex. I never got a lot of value from the external adjusters as they fall into the set and forget category. Using VTR1000F caps/damper rods will get you adjustable rebound if you wanted that for not much $$.

I have been contemplating a front end swap on my 5th gen. I have previously swapped late model R6 inverted forks onto my RZ350 and love it but don't fancy getting in that deep on the VFR this year as I have enough projects on my slate. As it overlaps with other aspects I would like to change I am considering just swapping out the lowers for VTR1000 parts and CBR calipers. I would replace all seals and bushings at the same time. This would save me removing the triples, as I just did the steering bearings last year, and also save dicking about with steering stops, bars, wiring etc. I can get a VTR1000 fender in the same colour code as my VFR and use VTR brake lines, and would probably look at changing the front master cylinder if necessary.

The rear caliper would be a Brembo P32 on an adapter bracket I already have from VFRD member eyrwbvfr.

Unknowns;

-Need a VTR front axle?

-Need to make wheel spacers?

-Need caliper spacers?

-Can you use the VTR cartridges?

-Okay with VFR springs, realizing VTR's are too soft?

Any comments or clarifications on the above points are appreciated.

Thanks!

The axle and spacers do not need to change.

VTR cartridges/fork caps are much the same as VFR certainly from a dimension, threadsize etc perspective, and the damping parts are just the same (with an added adjustable rebound bleed) so just as poor, and you ought to at least get a GoldValve for compression. VFR springs would be OK but you may need to adjust the spacer length, some PVC pipe is perfect for this. Or buy some decent springs from Somic, Racetech etc that are specific to your weight.

Use of CBR calipers requires removal of a little of the lower mounting bracket on the fork, a few minutes with a hand file. They also need to be spaced off the fork by something like 2-3mm, I used a couple of SS washers superglued in place. You should definitely get a master to match the calipers, to keep the correct hydraulic ratio.

You can't use a VTR guard as the fork leg spacing is different on the VFR (wider) so use your VFR guard and make up some small brackets to mate to the VTR legs.

Having done the deed...parts is parts.....

.....Stock 5th gen parts

> Wheel, axle, spacers, rotors, axle bolt, fender....need fender bracket fab. ( I used to make these.) 

5th clip-ons, triples

.......VTR Parts

> Lower fork legs, axle clamp bolts... - I upgraded the springs and valves. 

> Brakes - RC51, F4i, CBR600, 954, match the master cylinder - makes it easy.(mine are RC51)

Custom brake lines (Mine are Spiegler, they are local to me.)

 Notes....

Minor grinding needed on lower area of calipers and lower fork leg mount boss....Top of mount is fine. 

[image: P1010505-1-M.jpg]

(Bolt from up top, swing down caliper for areas to work on.)

1mm spacers needed on back side of calipers to get the pistons more centered..

( I'm running a common off the shelf hardware washers, there was a time I was going to grind up some custom washers, but after a while, it didn't seem needed.)

5th gen triples are wider stance vs VTR triple

Don't forget to change the rear master cylinder to 14mm (F4i, RC51, CBR600, VTR)

This job is a delink project too so all that gear comes out.

Some photos are in my gallery

I wasn't aware of the wider fork spacing, so thanks for that one. I've got a brand new CBR1000 (not sure year) rear MC that I bought for another project and never used but I think it's ⅝" (16mm) so it might be a bit touchy.

15 hours ago, Dangeruss

I wasn't aware of the wider fork spacing, so thanks for that one. I've got a brand new CBR1000 (not sure year) rear MC that I bought for another project and never used but I think it's ⅝" (16mm) so it might be a bit touchy.

A bigger diameter MC should give you a more wooden brake as there is less hydraulic advantage over the calliper pistons; not a bad thing for a rear brake in my view. 

Can't you just bolt up an entire VTR front end? Uses same bearings I think?

Oh look....

1 hour ago, vfrcapn

Can't you just bolt up an entire VTR front end? Uses same bearings I think?

Oh look....

:) Yeah, I looked at that and was wondering if you still have it. I will PM you shortly.

2 hours ago, vfrcapn

Can't you just bolt up an entire VTR front end? Uses same bearings I think?

Oh look....

The VTR and 5G definitely use the same bearings, but the steering stem length could be different, as could the yoke offset. I put 6G yokes and CBR600F4 forks onto my 5G as I was confident the frame/geometry was largely unchanged between the 5 and 6G, and the only issue I had was getting the steering lock pin to align with the socket in the frame, which required the 5G lock mechanism to be shimmed down off the 6G triple. 

I doubt the steering stem is any different length; can't say for sure, but playing around with that dimension is not generally a Honda thing.  It's generally 224mm, but very large bikes might have longer ones.  (I might have both stems in my shed, but I haven't looked in that particular box for some time, so I'm not sure what I've still got.)

Yoke offset is different: 40mm on the 800 and 35mm on the VTR.  I'm not sure where I got the data, but I'm showing 25.5mm rake and 95mm trail for the 800 and 24.83mm rake and 97mm trail for the VTR.

Ciao,

JZH

Veefer800Canuck, 1/24/2012 at 1:40 AM

RC51 forks on a 1999 VFR800. No, I would not switch back.

The longer trail due to the RC51 triples different offset makes the bike steer slower (all else being equal) but on my bike, the front end is slightly lower than stock, and the rear end, I raised up, plus the handlebars are wider for more leverage, so it pretty much cancels that effect right out.

The brakes are absolutely stupid, and the ride quality and adjustability are far better than the standard VFR boingers. I added an Ohlins rear shock, courtesy of a VFRd member, and the transformation is complete.

[image: gallery_554_5200_7067862.jpg]

Old thread, but since you are a Forum moderator I am hoping to get a reply. What handlebars did you have on this very nice looking VFR? They look wider and higher than Helibars.

Terry, 9/30/2020 at 4:54 PM

I've had stock 5G, modified 5G (replaced springs and Gold Valves) and then modified 600F4i forks on my 5G. Bang for buck, the modified 5G fork is pretty good and maybe 95% of what the 600F4i fork offered. The latter seemed to have better quality/design bushings that made for lower friction and a better ride, and the 43mm vs 41mm stanchions were definitely less prone to flex. I never got a lot of value from the external adjusters as they fall into the set and forget category. Using VTR1000F caps/damper rods will get you adjustable rebound if you wanted that for not much $$.

Hi Terry,

What modifications did you do to the F4i forks. Did you swap out the entire front with the triple trees?

Ross

RossR, 5/31/2022 at 12:35 AM

Hi Terry,

What modifications did you do to the F4i forks. Did you swap out the entire front with the triple trees?

Ross

Hi Ross

I fitted 6th gen triples and bars to my 5G, installed the F4i forks with .95kg/mm springs and re-used the Gold Valves that were in the original forks. The damper cartridges are actually the same dimensions, just with the external screw adjusters. I also bought a 600F4i front fender, although you can get a 5G fender to fit with some creative bracket making. The 5G axle, wheel and discs are perfect as is. I used some 954 callipers and a 600RR master cylinder. The only bit that needed sorting was the ignition lock, the pin missed the socket on the steering head until I shimmed the lock down with a couple of washers. 

4 hours ago, Terry

The damper cartridges are actually the same dimensions, just with the external screw adjusters.

Thanks Terry,

Same dimensions but the F4i forks are 43mm so putting the F4i cartridges into the 5th Gen 41mm forks would not work. Correct?

I am at kindergarten level with regard to this topic.

RossR, 6/6/2022 at 12:37 AM

Thanks Terry,

Same dimensions but the F4i forks are 43mm so putting the F4i cartridges into the 5th Gen 41mm forks would not work. Correct?

I am at kindergarten level with regard to this topic.

Not correct. The fork tubes are different diameters as you say, but the cartridges are all the same 20mm OD in all the Showa forks that I've seen. There are model-specific differences e.g. in the valve base at the bottom where the CBR has a larger diameter bolt securing it to the fork, but that valve base is still intended for the 20mm cartridge tube. If you work through the Racetech site you will probably see the same part numbers listed for Gold Valves for the different bikes as well. 

If you want to make your 5G forks externally adjustable you should get the fork caps and cartridges off the VTR1000F Superhawk/Firestorm. That cap will screw straight into the VFR fork, and you will get adjustable rebound. You are right that a F4i cap is 43mm and won't fit the 41mm VFR fork. 

16 hours ago, Terry

Not correct. The fork tubes are different diameters as you say, but the cartridges are all the same 20mm OD in all the Showa forks that I've seen. There are model-specific differences e.g. in the valve base at the bottom where the CBR has a larger diameter bolt securing it to the fork, but that valve base is still intended for the 20mm cartridge tube. If you work through the Racetech site you will probably see the same part numbers listed for Gold Valves for the different bikes as well. 

If you want to make your 5G forks externally adjustable you should get the fork caps and cartridges off the VTR1000F Superhawk/Firestorm. That cap will screw straight into the VFR fork, and you will get adjustable rebound. You are right that a F4i cap is 43mm and won't fit the 41mm VFR fork. 

Thanks Terry,

As I said, I am at kindergarten level.

So, fork caps and cartridges off the VTR1000F Superhawk/Firestorm plus an appropriate spring change, and the correct grade of oil would be a quick upgrade.

How bad/good is the quality of the OEM fork spring? I've seen posts by Jamie Daugherty where he says that the rear shock spring is appropriate for a 12lb person, and judging from the feedback on the VFR forums and the CBR1100XX forums, he really knows his stuff.

Ross

6 hours ago, RossR

Thanks Terry,

As I said, I am at kindergarten level.

So, fork caps and cartridges off the VTR1000F Superhawk/Firestorm plus an appropriate spring change, and the correct grade of oil would be a quick upgrade.

How bad/good is the quality of the OEM fork spring? I've seen posts by Jamie Daugherty where he says that the rear shock spring is appropriate for a 12lb person, and judging from the feedback on the VFR forums and the CBR1100XX forums, he really knows his stuff.

Ross

Hi Ross

All that will get you is externally adjustable rebound damping, but all the stock setup shortcomings are still there; the VTR damper parts are identical to the VFR, just with the adjustable rebound bleed. My view is that the VFR is undersprung and overdamped as stock, which gives a harsh ride. The main culprit is the compression valve body which is overly restrictive to compensate for an overly soft spring (for less Japanese-sized riders anyway).

If money is tight then for best effect I would spend it first on a set of compression Gold Valves, then springs (something like 0.9-0.95 kg/mm seems right to me), then rebound Gold Valves, and last on the VTR adjusters. Jamie Daugherty certainly knows a thing or to and I've used his parts as an alternative to Racetech. 

Just my 2c worth. 

Terry

1 hour ago, Terry

Hi Ross

All that will get you is externally adjustable rebound damping, but all the stock setup shortcomings are still there; the VTR damper parts are identical to the VFR, just with the adjustable rebound bleed. My view is that the VFR is undersprung and overdamped as stock, which gives a harsh ride. The main culprit is the compression valve body which is overly restrictive to compensate for an overly soft spring (for less Japanese-sized riders anyway).

If money is tight then for best effect I would spend it first on a set of compression Gold Valves, then springs (something like 0.9-0.95 kg/mm seems right to me), then rebound Gold Valves, and last on the VTR adjusters. Jamie Daugherty certainly knows a thing or to and I've used his parts as an alternative to Racetech. 

Just my 2c worth. 

Terry

👍👍👍

I was searching something and came across this thread. Realized I never finished my build thread. 
 

to answer the question Absofuckinglutely!

2002 with 77k on the clock

08 engine and ECU with just under 7500 miles

2006 LE YZF-R1 complete front end

Sebspeed custom triple trees 

forks built by Jamie at DMr

There is an absolute ton more done to this bike but that’s the front end setup and here’s a few pics.