Alright guys, What I thought was a dead battery turns out to be something more baffling. My bike wouldn't start, starts to turn over once and doesn't, like the battery is dead. I changed the battery, nope still no good. So I lifted the tank to check connectors out, it starts freely. Put the tank down, won't start, lift the tank, starts freely, rinse and repeat. Any ideas??????????
Can't find anything wrong with either of those. nothing directly under the tank handles the electricity from the switch to the starter. Fuel line maybe, but it's acting like the engine is getting bound up and the starter doesn't have the power to turn it over.
What if you raise the tank and start it, then lower the tank. At some point there does it die or continue to run. I would suspect something electrical as opposed to fuel issue. If it were fuel related I would expect it to fire up then stall.
[image: View Post]Rufrydrsc2, on 22 August 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:
If I raise the tank and start it, it continues to run after the tank is down.
Can you hear the start relay clicking when you try to start with the tank down?
I don't have a schematic in front of me, but I would think it would almost have to be the wire between the start button and the starter relay or power getting to the start button. That's where I would start looking anyway.
[image: View Post]Rufrydrsc2, on 22 August 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:
it just doesn't turn the motor over.
do you mean the starter doesn't have the power to rotate the motor or do you mean that the starter rotates the motor as expected but the motor never "catches and fires".
.... and when the tank is up the motor spins fast and free, catches and fires, then continues to run when the tank is lowered?
I think you should look at cable routing coming off the pos terminal of the battery. I would check that the pos cable is tight to the battery and there is a good electrical connection. Sounds like the starter is not able to get the amps it needs when the tank is lowered.
I'm still leaning toward the starter not getting the amps it needs due to a high resistance electrical connection that has something to do with tank position / cable routing. But I'm out of ideas at this point?
[image: View Post]Rufrydrsc2, on 22 August 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:
There's nothing for larger wires under there. Nothing that could even get in the way. It's all tubes. All electrical connections are good. WTF!?
Well there's your problem! You got the whole dern interwebs in there... :laugh:
Sorry, nothing really to add. Just found that funny. :rolleyes:
Something must be moving and acting on something else. Main ground wire or power to the starter?
I can't find out what though, I've wiggled everything coming out from under the tank, and anything the tank comes in contact with, and it makes no difference. AAHHHH!!!!
Hook a voltmeter up at the battery and try starting it in the two situations you described. If it is shorting out with the tank down you should see a big amp draw/voltage decline. Compare it to what happens with the tank up. There is wiring under the tank for the fuel pump so check that end to end, it may be grounding out with the tank down.
With the tank up or down the voltage goes to ~11V when trying to start. With the tank up 11V starts it, with the tank down it doesn't. Fuel pump runs fine tank up or down.
[image: View Post]Rufrydrsc2, on 22 August 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:
With the tank up or down the voltage goes to ~11V when trying to start. With the tank up 11V starts it, with the tank down it doesn't. Fuel pump runs fine tank up or down.
Can you measure the amperage draw at the starter?
The good news is that if you keep the tank at least half full you can still ride it with the tank in the upright position.
:smile:
JK, has the be frustrating but sounds like it will be a simple fix once you nail it down. Why did you have the tank up in the first place? Just to check the connections?
[image: View Post]Rufrydrsc2, on 22 August 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:
With the tank up or down the voltage goes to ~11V when trying to start. With the tank up 11V starts it, with the tank down it doesn't. Fuel pump runs fine tank up or down.
That is normal - I have a Datel meter and when starting the voltage drops to about 11V. When Batteries Plus tested my battery they checked to see if it would hold 11V while under load to simulate starting.
Just a wild a$$ guess . . . the main ground point on a 6th gen is right under the back of the tank where the hinge is. There's a hex head socket bolt holding the wires to the frame. They should all be clean and the bolt snug - possibly the tank coming down on the wiring is making it put just enough pressure on the wiring bundle to alter the conection. Jake made that point above about maybe a bad ground. At least it's easy to check . . .
In fact both the main grounds are there so I should clarify. The low amp grounds (accessories, ECU, etc) are bolted horizontally to the frame and it's a bunch of green wires. This is unlikely to be your issue.
The *main* ground for the battery (which is how the battery is hooked up to the frame) is bolted vertically to the top of the frame, under the tank and just forward of the tank mounting bolts (under the rubber flap). Problems here will stop any high current devices from working properly.
The starter uses the bike's engine, and subsequently the frame, as its ground (only one big positive wire goes to the starter).
Ladies and Gentlemen, We have a winner!!! It was the ground screw! Now I've got an extra battery for no reason... Oh well, you live and learn. I'm riding this weekend!!!