I am sure this must have been asked at least dozen times before, but i failed to find the topic by searching. sorry for the repost
How many miles before valve adjustment?
Is it absolutely needed?
what adverse effects if we skip this?
i am at 13000 now :(
Mine was checked at 16k, but not needed. At 23k now and I don't plan on having them checked for a while if ever. My neighbors '06 VFR just turned over 80k miles and his have never been done. He claims the local dealer told him that it isn't necessary to do.
It is NOT an emergency to check your valves @16k and I would venture to guess you could easily go over 60k or more and never cause any harm to your engine w/o a check.
I personally have been playing a game on mine that started at 40k w/o a check just to see what could happen. I'm now at 95k miles of beating the crap out of the bike and even going over 10k between oil changes and still haven't check my valves for the first time.
Do not use me as an example, but just realize that valve checks on a VFR are NOT a real concern about potential engine damage.
In other words your bike will Not explode at 16001 miles w/o one! :tour:
BR
I have 30,000+ miles, no check, flawless performance. I have a Honda mechanic near me, long time, multiple VFR owner. Currently has 180,000+ on his 6th Gen. Has never checked them, does not intend to. The anecdotes suggest it is optional at best...
It is possible that your valves will get out of spec at some point, but also possible that your engine will go 100,000 miles without needing adjustments. On my 3rd Gen, 4th Gen and Blackbird what I did was check the valves once between 35-40K miles and ride on. I have only adjusted two valves during that time (on my 3rd gen). My current 4th gen has 81K miles on it and I plan to continue riding it with no thought of future valve clearance checks. I do believe the valves should be checked at least one time though.
BaileyrockIt is NOT an emergency to check your valves @16k and I would venture to guess you could easily go over 60k or more and never cause any harm to your engine w/o a check.
I personally have been playing a game on mine that started at 40k w/o a check just to see what could happen. I'm now at 95k miles of beating the crap out of the bike and even going over 10k between oil changes and still haven't check my valves for the first time.
Do not use me as an example, but just realize that valve checks on a VFR are NOT a real concern about potential engine damage.
In other words your bike will Not explode at 16001 miles w/o one! :tour:
BR
I'm with you on this one, I bought mine with 36k and now have 42k, I've only done new brakes, sprocket and chain, and tires so far. I hear a bit of rattle? noisiness on start up and for the first few mins or miles, then just normal idle etc. Due to my research on this forum, I've decided to run this until I hit 100k, I've already taken it from Seattle to LA over Labor Day and not a problem at all, I was worried of over heating but that ended up being a non-issue as well.
Glad to hear your still motoring along BR, you're my idol and really one of the reasons I feel so confident in this bike!
Rob
I put 87k miles on my first '02 VFR, checked valves at 24k and 55k, no valves out of spec. I traded my 87k mile '02 for a 15k mile '02 and plan on never checking the valves.
The valve check is insurance against the risk of valve clearance getting so small the valves do not close and over heat damage to valves. I have not heard of anyone having valve damage from valves too tight on a 6 gen VFR. The risk of valve damage in the life of the bike is very small.
On my '82 CB650 I could check valves in 20 minutes, that is cheap insurance. The VFR takes up to 8 hours or $400-$600 at a shop, the insurance cost exceeds the risk. I have seen a used VFR engine on eBay for the cost of a valve check. I would have spent $2500 on 16k mile valve checks in 87k miles on my last VFR. The high cost low risk ratio for valve checks do not pencil out.
"I would have spent $2500 on 16k mile valve checks in 87k miles on my last VFR. The high cost low risk ratio for valve checks do not pencil out."
That is an Excellent point.
Ya, had mine checked at 20k, now 65k on it and its time. They are all tight, new CCT's will be going in next week also. I really cant complain tho cuz I ride the hell out of it and other than tires/chains/oil/etc this is the only thing I have had to do to it. Cant wait till I get it back on the road.
At least I have a buddys 1000rr to "get me by" :laugh: :wheel:
How do we know the valves were in spec unless we actually opened it up and checked?
Am I the only one who thinks the Engineers at Honda specified 16k valve adjustments because they thought that was prudent?
Just playing Devil's Advocate.
Hey all, bringing this thread back from the dead. I felt that was a better option than starting yet another thread.
I bought my 03 back in the fall with about 18.6k miles on the clock. Knowing the service manual spec'd a check at 16k and seeing as how the thermostat was stuck open, I decided to do the valve check before spring. My 5th gen had a few valves out of spec at 32k miles, so I'm not one in the camp of "they never need it". None of my Triumph 1050's ever needed adjustment, but I always checked...
Anyway, I just checked the front bank (cyls 2 and 4). It's been a long day, so I'm going to recheck them tomorrow. Right now, I've measured them ALL of our spec. And no, this is not my first valve check or adjustment. Normally I'm confident in my work, but the VFR faithful have me questioning my measurements. Has anyone else had so many out of spec? And no, I haven't checked the rear cyls, yet.
As a matter of being complete, I did a compression test before removing the cams. All is good...3 at 185 psi and 1 at 178 psi. Seeing as how the manual specs 142-178, I'll take it!
Just curious - did you check all 4 valves on each cylinder or the 2 non-vtec valves? My thought is when I need to do this I'll just check 2 of the 4 on each cylinder as the vtec valves operate a relatively small portion of the time. But if all 4 have a good chance of going non-spec then I'd have to re-think that. This is such a PITA project it's the 1 thing I dread doing on this motorcycle.
I checked all four valves on the front cyls. Although I have a lift in a well lit garage, the job was pretty easy. It's just that you have to do it twice. More involved than I'd prefer, but it isn't the worst thing I've done.
I'm thinking I might check the non-VTEC valves on the rear cyls before pulling the cams. I don't know how/if I could have botched the camshaft reassembly, but I'm going to try for a sanity check. A couple valves were out by 0.001, while others were out much more (sheet is in the garage, can't remember them off the top of my head).
IMO, FWIW, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that most 6th Gen do not need the valves shims adjusting at the specified mileages.
That doesn't mean yours wont need it. It's up to individuals to decide whether or not they check but as has been said, you wont know until you do check.
I think Honda based their recommendation on the 5th Gen as they had no better info to go on. My 5th Gen needed new shims every 16k, yet my 6th has not needed any in the first 2 checks and I did not check them at the 48k service.
5th Gen was easy to do, and I say that as a ham-fisted non-mechanically minded soul but I have shy'd away from opening the 6th Gen and leave that part (only) of the 16k service to my local garage.
The 5th gen adjustment really was the easiest i've every done. I miss that...
Will confirm measurements later today and assess the situation in greater detail.
On my 6th gen (that I bought used) I've decided not to worry about valve adjustments on the advice of a Honda tech I know well @ the dealership. I actually had it on his schedule for a valve check at 16k, and he saw it in advance and called me and asked "WTF are you doing? I've checked a bunch, and never found one valve that needed it. Save your money."
wgregtOn my 6th gen (that I bought used) I've decided not to worry about valve adjustments on the advice of a Honda tech I know well @ the dealership. I actually had it on his schedule for a valve check at 16k, and he saw it in advance and called me and asked "WTF are you doing? I've checked a bunch, and never found one valve that needed it. Save your money."
I've been told this to, both by my local bike shop and 2 dealers
I carved out a bit of time last night to re-check the front cylinders and look at the non-VTEC rear valves. Confirmed that all fronts are indeed out. Both rear non-VTEC exhausts are out, but intakes are in (but at the limit). I'll check the rear VTEC valves and post a copy of the measurements for anyone interested.
So, the next time someone tells you VFR valves don't need adjusting, remember this. I won't make any claims as to whether or not this would ever become a problem, but we all know what tight valves can do over time. YMMV.
the vfr valves have plenty of room to zero. with .2mm as minimum spec, that's plenty of room below spec.
Now my KTM has a .1mm spec, that leaves not much room to zero, and why Ive checked those valves twice to ensure they are holding, where as the vfr I could care less, even though it has post 100,000 mile mileage.
The thing is, you never want the valves 'to zero'. The measurements are done on a cold engine and the tolerances account for thermal expansion during use. Only the engineers at Honda know what cold clearance translates to an open valve when hot. In my case, I have a few intake valves with 0.004" clearance (.1016 mm). Given the performance of my engine (validated with compression test), I don't have any burnt valves. I do not know when this would have occurred, but I'm personally not willing to find out. I have the resources to do the work myself, have back up motorcycles, and terrible winter weather outside.
Ultimately, what we do with our engine service is up to us; I'm not here to debate that. I only posted to seek clarification on what others have seen after a measurement...of those who needed adjustment, of course. My information is presented only to show the other side of the VFR valve story: some bikes actually need adjustment, even at the first interval. As always, YMMV.
I'll post my measurements in a couple days when I've had time to finish the rear cylinders.
once down below .08mm , then it gets iffy with valving being zero. But a lot of people freak if they find their valve at .2mm on the vfr ,even though its still in spec.
Normally, I'd never adjust if the valves were in spec (even on the border). I have two intake valves that are right on the tolerance this time, though. I'll be adjusting those to the loose side just because I'm going through the exercise.
I'm now at 105,550 miles on my babied 02 and thinking about popping her cherry for her first valve check!
NOT!!!
Maybe at 200k. :wink:
Honda installed a special gel type mist from the factory that forever protects the valve spec's, once a valve cover is popped this magical substance escapes forever never to protect another swipe of a bucket. :tour:
Don't mess with the magic! :rolleyes:
PS the Service Dept. is the Real Profit Center of any Dealer.
Well, having inadvertently opened the valve covers, thus eliminating the Soichiro magic, I'm left with this:
Just to help anyone who might need to decide whether or not to have the valves checked/adjusted, I will come in with my experience. I have a 2002 VFR ABS, about 65k kms. I had my valves inspected and adjusted end of last spring. About half were out of spec (but well within tolerance), and ~half were just fine where they sat. This was the bikes first valve check/adjustment (I asked the previous owner, who has the full history).
I was not stoked on how much my stealership billed me for at the end, but I WAS stoked with how much better the engine behaved and sounds. Like new, for lack of a better term. I REALLY love my VFR now :)
So, in my minor experience, I wouldn't inspect the valves at least until 60k kms unless it was warranted for other reasons (noise, engine handling, etc.). It truly is built to last and stay in spec. For anyone with less than 30k miles/60k kms, I wouldn't worry about the valves.
About half were out of spec (but well within tolerance),)))))
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Either they were out of spec or not, you cant have it both ways. and if you had a dealer do it, then you probably don't actually know what they were other than hearsay chatter.
Sounds more placebo effect to me. They'd have needed to be way out of spec to notice an improvement in operation.
Some day I may check my 110,000 mile vfr, but it runs strong as always , no degrade at all, and its routinely hammered with tight track, but I run a special fuel diet. The vfr is the only motor Ive not checked the valves on, cause #1 its not a known motor to have serious valve movement issues, especially utilizing the preventatives.
My other motors in the past, have been routinely checked cause they have shown a history on the model with movement, including my new ktm has been checked twice . in the first 30 hours of operation. where others have seen movement, Ive seen none, I give credit to my air filtering and fuel diet to achieve good long term valve life.
About half were out of spec (but well within tolerance),)))))
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Either they were out of spec or not, you cant have it both ways. and if you had a dealer do it, then you probably don't actually know what they were other than hearsay chatter.
Sounds more placebo effect to me. They'd have needed to be way out of spec to notice an improvement in operation.
Some day I may check my 110,000 mile vfr, but it runs strong as always , no degrade at all, and its routinely hammered with tight track, but I run a special fuel diet. The vfr is the only motor Ive not checked the valves on, cause #1 its not a known motor to have serious valve movement issues, especially utilizing the preventatives.
My other motors in the past, have been routinely checked cause they have shown a history on the model with movement, including my new ktm has been checked twice . in the first 30 hours of operation. where others have seen movement, Ive seen none, I give credit to my air filtering and fuel diet to achieve good long term valve life.
I was shown the printout for my valve specs. ~ Half were OK (didn't need adjustment), ~half were out of spec (needed shims), but obviously all were within tolerance (as I had been riding the bike). As for a placebo effect, no. I am in tune with my machines; be it car, motorcycle, jet airplane, bicycle, lawnmower, chainsaw, whatever. I notice the small differences. After the valve tune my bike was noticeably smoother running (engine wise) especially above 7000 when all the valves open up. Further more, it has gained me full confidence in the bike's state of tune, as I bought it used and it has a fair few miles on it. Not everyone would notice the difference to be sure, or not feel it was worth the cost to find out.