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Land Speed Racing, Guhl Reflash Reality, Scott's Damper Possible

35 posts Started 6 Sep 2014 Last recovered post 20 Sep 2014 Wayback Machine snapshot 8 Nov 2014

#1

Hi. I have come over from the "other" site, too much background clutter for my tastes. You will find video of a July run at Loring at www.youtu.be/wPTKpYDSupc onboard my 2010 DCT. What the heck, thought I'd derestrict her and feel out her real top speed (which was 155.8mph restricted, officially). So the rush between July and Labor Day events began, the wallet opened.

I thought the simple part would be the reflash by Guhl Racing. The very first standard feature they listed in their email to me was, "Removing the top speed limiter". Other than the other standard features listed, I chose only the 500rpm rev limit increase option, and focused on making a Scott's damper work on the bike. In reality, the 1200's geometry is so "relaxed", I doubt its practicality on the bike. Better safe than sorry when racing and the rules require it.

My second contact at Scott's tried to be helpful after the first just went silent. He neglected to consider the center of stem to tank measurement supplied though, so it almost didn't happen at all. The damper arm was grindable to within a couple of mm of functionality, and barely clears the tank with the damper mounted on their universal mounting plate. Mounting the damper was the easy part, the frame mount was the other investment.

I bought a frame mount looked like a decent start to have cut and extended, didn't do myself any favors. Get a straight one, like an older GSXR1000 and hack that. It took the fabricator and myself four hours to get the end result desired, using the tank mount bolts while clearing the tank and top clamp. It was fiddly work, but the result is quite satisfactory. Great relief came as I snapped the tank sides into the front mounts! Tight, but clearance is clearance, there is a lone mm.

Ready to race, looking forward to feeling out the VFR above 155mph, possibly into the 170's, who knows. Labor Day comes. They are very stable at 155, very!

I volunteer at Loring Speed Trials (www.loringtiming.com), so I may hot-lap when I choose to run. It's sweet. All in, I've spent a small fortune in prep, fees and travel, that's racing. I made two passes on the VFR Labor Day weekend.

I was in no rush on my first run, they teased me for my 155.xxxmph consistency in July, so I tried my best to go through the mile trap at 155 to tease them back, then poured it on for the next half-mile - or so was my plan. There was nothing freaking there, NADA!

Guhl's 48 hour non-response to my email was followed by my calling Mr. Guhl. He has offered to reimburse my shipping costs to send it back to him for another reflash, He said that older reflashes actually had not had the speed limiter removed. I pointed out that my reflash was only weeks old, he hesitated. I may have pissed him off by requesting refund and correction of the problem, seeing as I had spent a couple of grand and his $375 reflash  basically nullified weeks of rushing about and plans. Nothing wrong with asking, they have no actual material invested in this particular product, it's data. 

Data has value, but a word to anyone who wants what was advertised when they parted with their $375 for their reflash, send it back for updating if you want the top speed limiter removed. I was as excited as any of you that Guhl took on the VFR1200, especially the DCT, and I first heard of it here at VFRD as a lurker. I look forward to getting this right for next July's Maine Event at Loring, hoping Guhl fixed this!

On a fun side note, the folks up at Loring are a great group, very diverse, kind and patient. One in particular, Ralphie Navarro, let me have a scoot on his BMW S100RR HP4. Oh my . . . took two passes. 175mph licensing run was goal for run one, hands were a little shaky picking up my timing slip on the return road, 176. There was a building crosswind for my second run, I went through the mile at 178 accelerating, but got blown right 40 feet and ran out of pucker real fast before the 1.5 mile trap. I would have to spend serious time with a girl like that to be able to make her dance well. What a machine, like a scalpel with a chainsaw engine or something, and what a prince of a man - thanks Ralphie!!!


#2
First post
Biching and complaining
Not the best of starts eh?

Welcome to VFRD from across the pond.
Do not know the other site so no telling what clutter made you leave.
#3

WELCOME  and  i  have  been  leery  of  these  ecu  re-flashs.


So  when  you  tried  to  go  beyond  155  the  ecu  crashed  instead  of  the  factory  rpm  limit  kicking  in  ?


#4

WELCOME  and  i  have  been  leery  of  these  ecu  re-flashs.


So  when  you  tried  to  go  beyond  155  the  ecu  crashed  instead  of  the  factory  rpm  limit  kicking  in  ?

Factory limit still there at 155, right where the factory put it.


#5

WELCOME  and  i  have  been  leery  of  these  ecu  re-flashs.


So  when  you  tried  to  go  beyond  155  the  ecu  crashed  instead  of  the  factory  rpm  limit  kicking  in  ?

Factory limit still there at 155, right where the factory put it.

Not  worth  $375  ..


#6
Sorry to hear the top speed restriction was not removed on your more recent ECU flash. Of course, this calls into question the dyno data that was provided to Dynajohn by Guhl after he first discovered the issue and sent his ECU back for the fix. I think you are the first to actually test the "fix" outside of Guhl's dyno data. So, I guess either the fix is false, somehow yours was a one-off anomaly, and/or there are some process control issues at Guhl that lead to variability from ECU to ECU.

Troubling since I have an early Gen7 ECU re-flashed by Guhl and have been waiting for confirmation the top speed restriction "fix" was verified before I sent mine back for an update. Thanks for keeping us informed.
#7

Welcome dude, you will find no SOW here, well maybe the closest would be switchblade. 

Interesting project on your 7th gen, now the standard....

:worthlesswithoutpics:


#8

Welcome dude, you will find no SOW here, well maybe the closest would be switchblade. 

Interesting project on your 7th gen, now the standard....

:worthlesswithoutpics:

I  got  your  SOW   mello A  hole .


#9

Welcome dude, you will find no SOW here, well maybe the closest would be switchblade. 

Interesting project on your 7th gen, now the standard....

:worthlesswithoutpics:

I  got  your  SOW   mello A  hole .

LIke wise


#10

Welcome dude, you will find no SOW here, well maybe the closest would be switchblade. 

Interesting project on your 7th gen, now the standard....

:worthlesswithoutpics:

I  got  your  SOW   mello A  hole .

LIke wise

You  started  it .  Let  me  know  the  next  time  your  at  the Dragon. Like  to meet  you .


And  there  will be  plenty  of   pic's. 


#11

Whats  wrong  nobody  would  buy  your  crappy   looking  block  off plates.


#12

Whats  wrong  nobody  would  buy  your  crappy   looking  block  off plates.

Why are you even posting on a VFR1200 related topic? All you're doing is insulting people about things you have no knowledge about.


#13

Whats  wrong  nobody  would  buy  your  crappy   looking  block  off plates.

Why are you even posting on a VFR1200 related topic? All you're doing is insulting people about things you have no knowledge about.

Welcome dude, you will find no SOW here, well maybe the closest would be switchblade. 

Interesting project on your 7th gen, now the standard....

:worthlesswithoutpics:

I  got  your  SOW   mello A  hole .

LIke wise

You  started  it .  Let  me  know  the  next  time  your  at  the Dragon. Like  to meet  you .


And  there  will be  plenty  of   pic's. 

Is  it  hard  to  kept up ?


#14

Children...please...play nice....


#15

Children...please...play nice....

Nice way to welcome the new member, right? :wacko:


#16

Welcome dude, you will find no SOW here, well maybe the closest would be switchblade. 

Interesting project on your 7th gen, now the standard....

:worthlesswithoutpics:

^^^^^^

Yes  children  I  agree !


#17

damn i was looking forward to some top speed pulls!!!

switchblade and mello dude, the vfrd equivalent of sow and badbilly :P


#18

Welcome dude, you will find no SOW here, well maybe the closest would be switchblade. 

Interesting project on your 7th gen, now the standard....

:worthlesswithoutpics:

^^^^^^

Yes  children  I  agree !

Don't know what happened between you two...don't want to know, but you are right, mello dude shouldn't have dragged it in to this thread.

VFR155, I'd like to hear more about your quest.  :fing02:


#19

damn i was looking forward to some top speed pulls!!!

switchblade and mello dude, the vfrd equivalent of sow and badbilly :P

:goofy:


I  have  read  on  several   forums  with  the  reflashed  ECU  not   working.  Usually  they   re do it  and  there ok  but  some  never  recover AND a new ECU  has to be  purchase  by  the  owner . 


#20
Yeah but I haven't seen any actual numbers yet. :(
#21

I  like  the  idea  I  would  love  leave VTEC engagement  at  7000rprm  and  change  the disengagement  to 5500rpm..


#22
Yeah but tuning around that vtec window is a real pain in the ass. I'd rather have the old simplified on/off of the 2002-2005, but with a 6000 switch point.
#23

I'm pretty sure this thread is about the 1200, which is why it is in the 1200 forum. Anything in regards to the Vtec would be pretty well irrelevant to the discussion.


#24

I  mite  buy  one  there  cheap  right  now.


#25

Damn that's hard to take after all the preparation and effort. I have to apologize to the forum for not getting the dyno testing done on Gugl's ver. 2 re-flash to verify whether the speed limiter was removed. Other priorities got in the way. I will set up a dyno session date next Tuesday at Commonwealth Ducati to get this done ASAP.

Glad you were successful with the steering damper. I will be at the top speed meet in Ohio the 28th helping a friend who is trying to set a record with his modified GSXR 600.

John  


#26

Damn that's hard to take after all the preparation and effort. I have to apologize to the forum for not getting the dyno testing done on Gugl's ver. 2 re-flash to verify whether the speed limiter was removed. Other priorities got in the way. I will set up a dyno session date next Tuesday at Commonwealth Ducati to get this done ASAP.


Apology...why? We have the fix for the real issue (1-2 gear restrictions) due to your diligence with Don in the first place. I love the other aspects of the re-flash too (new temp set point, fuel re-map, exhaust valve disable), and could live without the top speed de-restrict. But, since I paid for it! I'd like to have it. Have a long ride to BFE coming up and would like to give it a try. BTW, I actually didn't get the exhaust valve disabled. Don and I talked and we agreed this valve probably isn't just for noise reduction, but likely for volumetric efficiency, i.e. low end torque. Been lots of chatter about this, just not enough real evidence to the contrary. Maybe a dyno run could settle this too?

I'll send my ECU back once I know the top speed issue is resolved.
#27

i also likt to know what the flap does exept the difference in noise


#28

Hi. I have come over from the "other" site))))))))))))))))

The truth is never a bad thing first post or last, while some may prefer sugar coating and a pretense of reality, thanks for your factual feedback. I thought Gui hadn't really perfected the DCT or wasn't capable due to difficulties with that ECU, and they had focused on the standard shift model. But you mentioned that you only wanted the rev limit removed in your post, does that mean that you didn't get the power restriction mods in  the lower gears?   seems that was the biggest complaint with most people, cause that is an every day obstacle.


#29

Spud Don worked on breaking the ECU code on both models (F & DCT) more or less simultaneously. He actually flashed and shipped a DCT ECU (the first one he did) to California before He flashed my F model ECU. Don installed a dynojet map in the DCT models that was a existing fuel map for the F model. The F model maps were the only maps available since the DCT model cannot be dyno tuned. Apparently the ECU restrictions are the same for both the F & DCT and the dynojet fuel mapping for the F model works pretty well on the DCT. If Don gets around to figuring out how to get around the ECU restriction that prevents dyno testing the bike and gets a DCT to play with on his dyno I suspect that he will find some real improvement in the DCT transmission programming.

It doesn't surprise me that Guhl's shop missed the speed limiter on the first re-flashes. The biggest problem he faced was not having a VFR 1200 to beta test the early re-flashes before shipping the first batch of ECU's so it is surprising he got everything else right the first time around. Those of us that got those initial re-flashed ECU's knew we were field testing the re-flash and had agreed to test and furnish feedback to Don. For my part he delivered on everything I asked for (1st & 2nd gear restriction removed, RPM limiter increased 500 RPM, removed the alarm code for removing the exhaust valve actuator) except the speed limiter. I called Don and told him the speed limiter was still there and posted that fact here. I now have the ver. 2 re-flash and will try to dyno test it in the next couple of weeks to verify Guhl has removed it the second time around.  


#30

Thanks for the update DynaJohn, when all those threads were merged, hard to keep up.


#31

Tested the bike yesterday and the speed limiter is gone. It will now pull (on the dyno) to the 11,100 RPM limiter in 5th gear (163.4 MPH) and in 6th gear (179.87 MPH).

Thanks Don for sticking with the speed limiter problem until it was solved.


#32

Great work, and thank you for doing this for the community.  Wondering if I should mail mine back now.....................


#33

I would say yes if you think you are going to want to exceed the stock 155 MPH limiter. Updates are free excluding freight from Guhl.

Personally the only reason I wanted it removed is that running my bike in a ECTA timed top speed event in Ohio is on my bucket list and I don't want to be limited when I compete. If I wasn't planning on doing this I would not care as running that fast on public roads in my area is not safe or practical (strict law enforcement). I am 72 years old and explaining to my grandkids why grandpa is in jail and on the evening news would be awkward.


#34

So being in jail or on the evening news is already marked "done" onyour bucket list?

Details and pictures please!!!  :goofy:


#35

Yep already did that but it was way back in 1983 for drag racing. Cop was mad as hell, said his car was maxed out at 130 MPH on his certified speedometer and he couldn't keep up with us. He really was not amused when I said at least I had won the race and we both spent the night in jail.  No grandkids then but my 2 daughters still like to remind me about it occasionally. 


End of thread · 35 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 8 Nov 2014