Seat Latch Broken? (6Th Gen)

I have a ten year old sargent seat that's never given me problems on my 2003 VFR.  Today, I planned to put the battery back in after winter storage and could not remove the seat.  I spent two hours trying everything I could think of including hosing down the lock with Dupont multipurpose spray.  The seat is loose and I can wiggle it a few centimeters left/right but it will not release.

The key turn is accompanied by an unusual ratchet feel where it clicks twice.  I can hear the cable near the rear of the seat move, but I suspect it is not fully releasing.  I don't know if the problem is slack in the cable or something else.  I tried removing the rear cowl and brake light assembly to get at the lock, but it's is nearly impossible with the seat attached.  Suggestions?

Wow what a bummer. I just went out to look at my sargent seat & latch & I suspect the issue may be more the seat than the mechanism. If you can hear the cable at the latch then the slide should be trying to move. Maybe the seat was not positioned correctly when last installed and it is "sprung" in place. Maybe have someone hold the key turned to the right and then you try pushing down on the back edge of the seat and see if the slide will release.  Try pushing down in the center of the seat while you work the back of the seat up and down.  

I looked to see if there is an easy access to poke at the latch from the right underside of the seat and it doesn't look like that would work.

Good luck!

have someone hold the key turned to the right and then you try pushing down on the back edge of the seat and see if the slide will release

I tied the key to full clockwise and did everything but knock the bike off the center stand--no luck.

I got pretty familiar with the seat latch system this winter while I removed the tray under the seat for another project.   If the seat's not jammed or in a bind, I don't know if this will help you, but here's a shot.  Honda did make it difficult to defeat the seat latch without breaking things.  You'll never remove the two bolts (one showing at left of photo) under the seat holding the rear cowl in place with the seat in place.

The latch is held in place by a bolt (yellow arrow).  The latch pin (green arrow) slides horizontally from left to right in the photo when releasing the seat.  The seat latch is a metal loop that fits down in to the slot, pushing the latch pin back against its spring.  Once the loop is past the latch pin, the spring pushes the pin through the center of the loop securing it.   The cable is attached to the sub frame at the white arrow.  The green collar on the cable housing clips in to a "C" slot on the sub frame.  The cable end then fits in to a hole on the end of the latch mechanism (not visible) to pull on the latch pin for release.  One possibility is that the green collar was somehow displaced from the "C" slot on the sub frame, so that when you turn the key, there's nothing retaining the housing (essentially nothing for it to push against), so the cable housing moves rather than moving the cable itself.  The cable housing moving could be what you're feeling when you turn the key.   The same setup is in place at the key end of the cable, a second green collar slotted in to the metal housing that holds the key cylinder.  It's buried under wiring though, and it does not seem likely that it could have been dis-lodged there. 

At the red arrow, there is a gap between the fender and the tail light housing (at least on mine).  The silvery material at the tip of the red arrow is the metal of the (non stock) exhaust can.  The arrow tip is just in line with the left turn signal bulb.   You obviously couldn't see anything up in there without removing the exhaust but you might with it out of the way.  If the cable's loose and something with a hooked end (piece of coat hanger?) could be fished up in there it might be possible to hook the cable and pull it enough to release the seat.  It wouldn't have to be pulled hard as the spring on the pin is not all that strong. 

There could be something bound up or twisted with the latching loop, but no way of knowing without it off.  If there's something under the seat holding it up, it could bind the slide pin, so you might try pushing down on the seat at the latch prior to turning the key to see if that will let the pin loose.    As an aside, when I remove my seat I grab it up near the tank and sort of pull it to the rear while turning the key - seems to work for mine.    Best of luck with it. 

[image: Seat%20Latch%20%20II_zpsrgyoonil.jpg]

it might be possible to hook the cable and pull it enough to release the seat.  It wouldn't have to be pulled hard as the spring on the pin is not all that strong.

Great writeup and advice Cogswell, thank you.  I will give the cable pull a go and report back.

Not sure it'll help any but here are some pics of the underside of the latch and key lock.  Based on my bike (which is stripped for the track) it looks like you should be able to pull your left grab handle or cover off to possibly get at the mechanism with a tool or coat hanger as Cogswell mentioned.  My finger is pointing at a bolt where the cable once attached to the latch.

[image: 20150318_111506.jpg]

If you can figure out how to grab the lock "keeper" and push it loose you can remove the lock at the front end.  The keeper is the same as most older key locks on cars where it just slides around the assembly and wedges it in place.  

[image: Lock%20Assembly.jpg]

Another angle.

[image: 20150318_111700.jpg]

Thanks for all the pics fellas, they're super helpful.  I took the grab handle off immediately but can't see the mechanism.  There is a black sheathed cable that passes under the grab handle mounting nuts.  I'm not sure if it's the seat lock release cable?  I might be able to follow it to the mechanism.  I see it in Dutch's last pic and assume that any tug on the metal his finger is pointing at will release the lock?

I'm fairly certain that the cable housing is moving but not the cable itself.  I can push the lock in about 1/4 inch with the key and it will click (ratchet) twice while it's turned.  I don't remember either of these behaviors being normal.  My plan of attack is to get the rear cowl off.  I have one of the screws halfway out.  Hopefully I can get the screw clear of the seat by wedging a plastic scraper in there.

I think the idea of removing the handle was to see if the cable could be hooked from there - it does run right outside and beneath the handle mounting boss.  If you can see it moving while you turn the key that should be it.  There is a wire there too, just be careful not to damage it.  The lock behavior seems odd - I wonder if the U shaped lock keeper is loose or there is something wrong with the lock cylinder itself. 

SOLVED!  I got the rear cowl off and was able to pull the latch open where Dutch is pointing.  It feels so good to have my bike back.  It's parked down on a second level subbasement and I'd of been so screwed trying to haul it out.

The problem was the main wire harness.  It was replaced under warranty during the recall a few years ago and the replacement harness is slightly shorter than stock.  Part of the battery harness was jammed up against the key receptacle and was pushing the cable off its C clamp.  The ratchet noise was the cable knocking against the clamp.  Also, the cable loop was not properly secured under the left fender bungie and had become slightly loose, therefore the latch would not release.  The lock is now back to normal with a smooth full turn where you can feel tension from the cable when the key is rotated.  The fix was to wrestle the wire harness up and off the key lock.

Dutch, how do you secure the seat on your track VFR without the cable?

Nice!  :cheerleader:

Dutch, how do you secure the seat on your track VFR without the cable?

Glad you sorted it out!!  :fing02:

The seat will latch as normal but when I need to remove it, I just pull on that bolt I am pointing too to release the latch.