I'm usually not too bad with electronics (I've had to learn), but this one has me stumped. A 2002 with 70k miles, new to me, a FZ-1 fuseblock with only the on board voltmeter connected.
Now the stats:
VDC at idle: 13.4V
VDC at 5k: 13.0V
I suspected either the stator or the RR. So I inspect the stator:
Ohms between pins: 0.2-0.3 on all three
Ohms to ground: no continuity
VAC at idle: 25ishV between all three
VAC at 5k: 80-90V between all three
In the interest of full disclosure, I was never able to test the RR successfully on my 3rd gen. But the stator seems good except for the VAC at 5k. But the manual says nothing about VAC, so I don't know if this is in the upper range of OK, or not. And I would think if the RR is ok, then too much VAC should give me too much VDC.
I've had good luck with Ricks on my 3rd gen. I thought desired VAC at idle was 20V, and at 5k was 60V, but I'm happy to learn I'm incorrect. I'll do some shopping.
I've just done the same tests on my '04. (OEM stator and R/R). My stator voltage at 5K RPM is about 60 VAC. What has me puzzled is the R/R 5K RPM voltage. I'm getting 15.5 VDC. Everyone is telling me that is too high. The factory shop manual says <15.5 VDC is OK. The diode test of the R/R checks out. Do I have a bad R/R? Or is it an acceptable one at the high end of the range?
I've just done the same tests on my '04. (OEM stator and R/R). My stator voltage at 5K RPM is about 60 VAC. What has me puzzled is the R/R 5K RPM voltage. I'm getting 15.5 VDC. Everyone is telling me that is too high. The factory shop manual says
So either the new RR has the same problem, or its something else. My VDC at @ idle is now 12.8, @ 5k RPM 12.4.
Thoughts? I don't remember how old my battery is, but it is not currently a suspect. It seems to hold a charge just fine, and doesn't do any funny battery things.
I'm going to send the new rr back. I get worse voltage with it than with the original rr, which still isn't ideal. I'm sure the company will test it, and I'll post the outcome. I'll try the Shingen (not spelled right) since they have A good reputation.
There's making sure the monitor wire has good connectivity to the battery. You may also want to check R/R output at the R/R wiring harness plug and not the battery to make sure that any insertion losses from terminations & connectors isn't dropping a bunch of voltage before it hits your battery. The R/R on my 6th gen was putting out about 14.5 at 2k RPM but I had .6 to .7 VDC drop at the battery terminal. I fixed that with a heavy gauge jumper and a wire straight to the battery post from the R/R and reduced the drop to .1 volts.
I followed the instructions for testing the RR provided by the seller of the unit. I think it tested out okay, 525, 526, 527 on the diode test off the negative lead. Tests off the positive lead were all open. Seems high for a MOSFET maybe, but what do I know? I'm still waiting to hear back from the seller regarding these results or further testing. This was called Test #1 after all, which leads me to believe there is more.
'' HOW TO / Regulator
Test #1 - Diode test
• Set your meter on Diode mode.
• Locate the positive and negative lead of your rectifier. (See figure 1)
• Place the positive lead of the meter to the negative lead of the rectifier.
• With your negative meter lead touch all 3 phase pins on your rectifier. Your meter should read 0,400 and 0,600 on all three entries. If not, (Example: 0,475/0,475/0,280) your rectifier is defective.
• Place the positive lead of the meter to the positive lead of the rectifier.
• With your negative meter lead touch all 3 phases pins on your rectifier. Your meter should indicate OL (Open Loop) on all three entries. If it does not, your rectifier is defective.
Mosfet regulator rectifier:
For Mosfet rectifiers, it will be the same test but diode scale will change. It could be lower than 0,400. Just remember that all diodes need to be equal.''
My idle is at 1k. Battery voltage key off is 12.6, key on 12.3. BRand of rr and stator is unknown. It's a new to me bike and I don't trust previous owner mods. I don't know about the stator recall, but I know the blue connector mid has been completed. I saw the indent next to the vin required as per the recall requirement. It bike is supposed to have the vfrness, but I'm not 100% confident.
Ok. Your idle is a little low. The manual calls for 1200, and I usually set mine to 1400 too reduce engine braking and eliminate stalls when pulling in the clutch (weird problem, but the higher idle fixed it for me). Your battery voltages look good. I'd try a sh775 or fh020 RR. Wire straight to the stator on that end, and straight to the battery on the other end.
(Use of the sh775 is only recommended if you keep the rpms below 10k. higher than that and the vfr will produce a high voltage condition, which could fry things if you spend a lot of time up high in rev range.)
If you have the VFRness you'll have 2 20 amp main fuses rather than 1 30 amp. It plugs in to the R/R at the right side rad hose and routes through the frame along with the stator wires.
I am intentionally withholding identifying information until things get resolved. I have no reason to believe that this company will not act with integrity, but I don't want to start to weigh in one way or another until things settle. Today's response:
Dear,
Hello,
We would like to have this returned for testing.
Please note your return authorization number: 25###
Please write the RA number on the box for identification purposes
RA25###
395 Main Street
Anytown, CA 9####
We are eagerly waiting to take care of your issue as soon as possible.
Please contact us if you have any questions regarding the return process.
Not like it's a fun job, but I'd plan on pulling the stator cover offer, and visually examining the unit. If it looks pretty well burned I'd replace it as a maintenance item. Gasket for the stator cover may be a long lead part so I'd order that now.
Not like it's a fun job, but I'd plan on pulling the stator cover offer, and visually examining the unit. If it looks pretty well burned I'd replace it as a maintenance item. Gasket for the stator cover may be a long lead part so I'd order that now.
Let me know if you need a gasket, I keep them on hand. Not generally worth buying alone but I hate cutting them as I am all thumbs at times!
The Ricks Stator is wound via a different method than the OEM. I wouldn't suggest a Ricks stator for a 2002 however as I don't know that it is compatible with the recalled rotor they used for that year. High AC voltage shouldn't be that big of a problem, the amperage potential is the same and a good R/R can handle it. If you get over 14.8V from an aftermarket R/R you have a problem. If you get over 14.8 from the OEM you have a monitor wire problem...if it has the VFRness and no recall work then check that the monitor wire at the R/R has battery voltage with the key on.
I got a Ricks RR (which is what I believe was on there originally now that I can compare the two physically), and I am now actually getting more voltage at 5k than I am at idle, but it still seems low. 13.1 and 13.7. It's been a few weeks since I ridden her, and testing can wear on a battery, so I'm not overly concerned but 14.4 would be a lot cooler.
Now someone correct me if I'm wrong. If my wiring was sub par, wouldn't I see the effects at both idle and 5k? Cuz idle voltage is damn near ideal I think.
What I should have done is got the Shindengen FH...20.
Thanks for the offer Tightwad. I'm probably going to look at the stator when I do my next oil change. You can include the gasket in my next order for this gen's VFRness. I'll be in touch.
Ricks Stator and RR on my 07 for 40,000 miles now. I have a solid 14.3 at idle and 14.5 on road. Digital meter mounted on my dash and I watch it like a hawk.
Ricks Stator and RR on my 07 for 40,000 miles now. I have a solid 14.3 at idle and 14.5 on road. Digital meter mounted on my dash and I watch it like a hawk.
This is my numbers also, although idle can be down somewhat.
After riding around for 45 minutes yesterday, mostly freeway . . . 13.3 idle, 13.7 at 5k low beams, 13.4 at 5k high beans. Requesting RMA.
How is your wiring? I have had quite a few riders report that the VFRness brought the numbers up. Is the Stator still outputting evenly (and over 60VAC at 5K)?
My wiring looks good. My connectors look good, and I am not getting any change the longer I ride. I would a assume that a symptom of bad wiring could be a decline in voltage as questionable areas become more so. While a VFRness is on my list, I am looking forward to getting a Shindegen and being done with it. My first replacement RR was verified bad by the seller. The second was a Rick's, and my voltage was very similar to PorradaVFR's. My experience with Ricks has been hit and miss in the past.
So I have the Shindegen on the way, and shortly thereafter, the VFRness.
My wiring looks good. My connectors look good, and I am not getting any change the longer I ride. I would a assume that a symptom of bad wiring could be a decline in voltage as questionable areas become more so. While a VFRness is on my list, I am looking forward to getting a Shindegen and being done with it. My first replacement RR was verified bad by the seller. The second was a Rick's, and my voltage was very similar to PorradaVFR's. My experience with Ricks has been hit and miss in the past.
So I have the Shindegen on the way, and shortly thereafter, the VFRness.
Stator tests:
Ohms between pins: 0.2-0.3 on all three
Ohms to ground: no continuity
VAC at idle: 25ishV between all three
VAC at 5k: 80-90V between all three
I have only made 1 VFRness for use with the Shindegen R/R....just shipped it out today to the UK, so no feedback on it yet.
I found out recently that my on-board volt meter, which is connected to the (former) tag light circuit (took the DOT tag light assembly off the bike and fabricated a lens at the bottom of the tail/bake light fixture) reads almost a volt less than what I get directly from the battery posts with my RMS meter all through the rev range. I always thought for some years that my charging system output was on the weak side but was glad to find out that extra volt in the system....... So always take voltage readings direct from the battery if diagnosing charging problems.
Yeah that happens, you cant test the voltage from a circuit that already has a load on it and expect to get an accurate result. I have said that on a few threads.
Installed the shindegen rr today. At idle 13.3v, but at 5k only 13.5-6v. A rock steady voltage reading, but obviously a little low. Custom vfrness ordered. My volt meter is reading within .1v of readings at the battery.
Have you verified that your volt meter is reading acurately? I just discovered mine was high by 1.5v. I replaced my R/R for no reason. I didn't have an overcharge issue.
I initially thought my meter might be off and compared it to another with the same results. Brought the meter in to work and checked it on a 25vac power supply against a calibrated meter and found that both of mine were off. Checked my bike with the good meter and everything is good.
If you got the VFRness with an integrated switched relay/fuse block, attach the meter to a switched output of the fuse block. The voltage should be very close to that of the battery in reference to chassis ground. This will also stop the meter from being a continuous drain on the battery (like the tag light offers). My volt meter on the bike is within .05V of multiple multimeters that I've used to check the battery with this configuration.
I wouldn't suggest a Ricks stator for a 2002 however as I don't know that it is compatible with the recalled rotor they used for that year.
The 21-120 Rick's stator seems to work fine on a 2002 with the recall completed (just did mine this past June). My 2002 puts out 14.3-14.4 at idle with the VFRNess after changing it out along with the 10-126H-1 RR from your site.
Is there anything in particular I should be concerned about or look for?
Let me recap. Long story short, with stock everything but a shindegen 20 rr, I was getting 13.4 at idle, 13.7 at 5k unloaded, 13.4 with brights. Less that idle, but it was stay and it worked. I guess.
Enter the VFRness. Tightwad specialty built a 6th gen harness with the proper Shindegen connectors. 14.1 at idle now, 14.2 at 5k brights on and off.
I hesitate to save problem solved, but ... Issue remedied, for now at least.
Let me recap. Long story short, with stock everything but a shindegen 20 rr, I was getting 13.4 at idle, 13.7 at 5k unloaded, 13.4 with brights. Less that idle, but it was stay and it worked. I guess.
Enter the VFRness. Tightwad specialty built a 6th gen harness with the proper Shindegen connectors. 14.1 at idle now, 14.2 at 5k brights on and off.
I hesitate to save problem solved, but ... Issue remedied, for now at least.
So with the volts in the 13s, you had the FH020AA using the stock harness and not wired direct to the battery like is recommended?
Let me recap. Long story short, with stock everything but a shindegen 20 rr, I was getting 13.4 at idle, 13.7 at 5k unloaded, 13.4 with brights. Less that idle, but it was stay and it worked. I guess.
Enter the VFRness. Tightwad specialty built a 6th gen harness with the proper Shindegen connectors. 14.1 at idle now, 14.2 at 5k brights on and off.
I hesitate to save problem solved, but ... Issue remedied, for now at least.
So with the volts in the 13s, you had the FH020AA using the stock harness and not wired direct to the battery like is recommended?
Let me recap. Long story short, with stock everything but a shindegen 20 rr, I was getting 13.4 at idle, 13.7 at 5k unloaded, 13.4 with brights. Less that idle, but it was stay and it worked. I guess.
Enter the VFRness. Tightwad specialty built a 6th gen harness with the proper Shindegen connectors. 14.1 at idle now, 14.2 at 5k brights on and off.
I hesitate to save problem solved, but ... Issue remedied, for now at least.
So with the volts in the 13s, you had the FH020AA using the stock harness and not wired direct to the battery like is recommended?
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but similar to my situation so seemed appropriate...
I've an 02 and wondering if the voltage I'm getting now is normal, after a string of electrical problems. In summary:
Got a Fuzeblock fitted, posi-tapped into the rear break light to detect switched. Have Oxford grips, Garmin Satnav, USB charger all hooked up to only work with ignition on
Also replaced stock headlight bulbs with Phillips Xtreme Vision, I've been told they can sometimes be sometimes too bright when behind people, but they're stock 55w
Bought a Shorai Lithium battery and replaced stock R/R at the same time with a FH020AA from Roadster (thought I'd be clever and do preventative maintenance as I didn't want the R/R to go and take the new battery with it)
Crimped the R/R with bullets to the Stator and wired direct to the battery with an in line 30A fuse
I run out of power mid ride one day, to find the connection from Stator to R/R had melted (I suspect I may have messed up the crimp...). Have to repeatedly swap batteries with a buddy to limp home
I took a look at the Stator and it looked/smelled cooked, replaced it with an Electrex from local bike shop (said they'd never had problems with them), this time soldered it
Had a load test on the battery, garage said they weren't familiar with Lithiums, but from what they could tell it checked out ok
Replaced R/R with another Roadster FH020AA kit because of the below, although I'm not sure there was anything wrong with the first one... Did resistance checks before installing and read fine.
Fitted a cheap voltmeter, 3 wires so powered from Fuze block when switched, read wire on battery +. It's only .0, but readings seem consistent with my multimeter
Put a dab of Oxgard on the R/R spades. Also did the same around the starter motor connectors, and cleaned with wire wool/electrical contact cleaner (was some mild corrosion)
I'm getting 14.1-14.2v @ 5-6k revs on the road, with only stock load + voltmeter. high beams and it drops to 14.1, with the odd 14.0 blip.
I get the same readings if I have the grips on full, with Highs off
If I put Mains and Highs both on, the voltage just starts to plummet... it hit 13.4 before I got paranoid of breaking down again and turned off the grips.
Satnav and highs OR grips seemed to be hovering around 14 @ 5k. I put all 3 on and again got paranoid when it started to plummet!
Haven't tried the USB Charger yet
I'd tested voltage coming straight out of R/R (disconnected from battery) and when idle and it was 15.1v. I don't have the readings to hand, but the new Stator was giving AC results comparable to what's stated on other threads/youtube vids I've found, also no shorts to ground.
I'm not sure whether I'm trying to run too much tech, or if the bike isn't generating enough volts. From some of the previous posts it sounds like perhaps the latter? If it is the latter, I'm at a loss as there's nothing else in the Stator > R/R > Battery circuit, unless the multiple discharges damaged the battery, but doubt this would be the only symptom if the battery were bad?
14.2 with low beams and 14.0v with the high beams on is great. The voltages are fine, stop worrying, you are not going to break down at 13.4 volts. Just keep an eye on your voltage and be realistic about your load. Of course running high beams and heated grips at the same time will bring your voltage down, but as long as you stay above 13 volts you are fine. When you start dipping into the 12s you are slowly draining your battery. The bike will run into the 11s for a while, though it is not advised.
Also, disconnecting the rr from the battery while the bike is running, doesn't sound like the best idea.... I wouldn't do that.
p.s the stator to rr connection should be soldered, not crimped, that is where you went wrong. Solder the connection.
pps I am not sure if the lithium battery is your best choice for what you are trying to do here. Lithium batteries do have awesome shelf life, but the super small, light weight ones typically don't have a whole lot of reserve and they hate the cold. I feel like the yuasa 14 might be your best bet here, especially when you are dealing with essentially cold reserve capacity.
Thanks for the quick response CR. Sounds reassuring!
Although, I'm not sure if it only drops to 13.4 with grips and high beams. After having visions of breaking down again I didn't want to risk seeing how low it would go as I was out on my own. It's still minus (Celsius) temperatures over these parts and I've not had chance to get out again, but I'll see how low it does drop when I get out again. Useful to know 13 is the breakpoint, hopefully it won't go lower than that!
Also edited original post with a bit more detail, I assumed the crimp was what caused the melt first time round, so did solder the second time.
pps I am not sure if the lithium battery is your best choice for what you are trying to do here. Lithium batteries do have awesome shelf life, but the super small, light weight ones typically don't have a whole lot of reserve and they hate the cold. I feel like the yuasa 14 might be your best bet here, especially when you are dealing with essentially cold reserve capacity.
You are correct in that the voltage is your indicator of the system's health but it is current that runs devices. The voltage and current across each device result in a power use labelled in watts. You can add up the wattage of accessories and you will know in advance what you can run at any given time.
See your owner's manual. It lists the charging system total output, for example my 5th gen shows something like .450 kW or 450 watts. It also shows power use by the various bike systems. An additional device that may not be on your radar is the cooling fans, which will only be on when hot.
Next see this thread below. There is a post a little bit down by CSFS which illustrates the calculations. This shows how you should think of managing accessories.
pps I am not sure if the lithium battery is your best choice for what you are trying to do here. Lithium batteries do have awesome shelf life, but the super small, light weight ones typically don't have a whole lot of reserve and they hate the cold. I feel like the yuasa 14 might be your best bet here, especially when you are dealing with essentially cold reserve capacity.
The reason I got a Lithium at the time, was because living in an apartment with no plug sockets in the basement to run a battery tender from, with the bike only getting ridden once or twice a month I was worried about discharge. My circumstances have since changed and I can keep it on trickle charge. However, I do have the Shorai LFX19A4-BS12 12V 19Ah Lithium Battery, which was the beefier version of the two models on offer, but back to lead-acid if it goes.
@Knight - You may have guessed from my original post I'm not too clued up on electrics, but if the charging system is working as expected I was going to take a look and try to add up the watts of the accessories. Very useful post, thank you. I'll take a look at the Haynes tomorrow and do the calculations myself
a.) Yuasa YTX12-BS Motorcycle Battery 12V 10Ah 180CCA AGM
b.) Yuasa YTX14-BS 14Ah 200 CCA maintenance-free powersports battery
c.) Shorai LFX Lithium Iron Xtreme-Rate Battery LFX19A4-BS12
MSRP: $199.95
Condition: New
Brand: Shorai
Size Description: 2.31 LBS.
Photo: Actual
C.C.A: 285
Amp-Hr: 19
Manufacturer Part Number: LFX19A4-BS12
Acid: No
Volts: 12V
So a.) is the factory battery and b.) is the higher capacity option, but c.) is the battery that you have now, which looks to have much greater specs. You might be best off with the battery that you have now as it is rated at 19 amp/hours, which is what is most important in your application. The factory battery is only rated at 10 amp hours and the larger yuasa is rated at 14 amp hours.
@CR - If the charging is fine (looks it, but yesterday was only about 1 hour and the first time the bikes been out since the stator went) I might look into replacing incandescents with LEDs. A quick search showed there's some headlight conversion kits which have lower power draw. Once I tot up the draw of all the accessories, if there's not enough with the stock lights I think I'll try and replace at least the lead lights with LEDs. Useful info on the battery also, fingers crossed the Shorai doesn't go bad as I don't fancy having to buy a new one of those
I would start with LEDs on the tail lights and go from there. Keep in mind the charging system is a balancing act. What isn't used to top off the battery, lights, ignition, fuel pump etc, must be converted to heat by the rr. So if you free up a hundred watts, by using all LED/HID everything, then unless you are putting that 100 watts towards heated grips and other accessories, the rr will now be responsible for shorting that excess power to ground. That is why its such a great idea to have a volt meter like you do and then keep an eye on your voltage and do your best to balance your voltage budget. I have a manual fan switch and the fan will eat up some power, not quite as much as the high beams, but it will eat up power. So I usually only use the high beams and fan while I am moving pretty good and I don't use them at the same time.
End of thread · 52 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 18 Sep 2021