Which Gold Valves For My 4Th Gen?

with a friend staying the week in Garden Grove, Anaheim, Race Tech is just up the road in Corona.

so I will get a set for my VF500F2 to him

[image: Capture1.JPG]

Now, that was

[image: staples-easy-button.png]

but for my redslut, there are FOUR options....

[image: Capture.JPG]

The last one reads "RACE" to me which I am not.

Sporty? Yes........

any reason to prefer any other over the type 1?

They are all aroudn the $170 mark for the kit..

Hoei Dutchy,

I suspect that there is little to no benefit in the Gold Valves on the 4th Gen.

I did fit heavier, linear, Race Tech springs (0.9 kg/mm) with higher viscosity fluid (15W I think) with results which I deemed an improvement over the very soft stock forks.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually taken my 4th Gen compression valves apart so take my reasons below with the necessary pinch of salt.
  
Honda had not yet come up with the horrendously restrictive HMAS pistons so I strongly suspect that the stock pistons are not that much different from Type 1 GVs i.e. a high flow 3 port design.
 
G2R comp valves are a dual shim stack design where one stack serves to calibrate the port size. They are certainly highly flexible but you will need a LOT of testing to even begin to figure out how to make the best use of this flexibility.
 
The standard rebound GVs don't look anything special to me. I suspect that re-shimmed stock pistons can be just as good.
 
No idea about the HFR rebound valves. The RT blurb sounds good ... make of that what you will. :wink:

Oh, BTW ... my Type 1 compression GVs found their way into the 6th Gen's forks where they do make a world of difference.

I still would not bother to fit them to the 4th Gen.

The FMGV S2040 kit is the traditional Race-Tech compression Gold Valve kit.  The G2-R is more advanced, and probably unnecessary for most street riding.  Race-Tech used to say that there was no advantage in changing the rebound valves on those forks, but then I think they realised that they could sell a lot more Gold Valves!  The bang-for-buck route is S2040s, straight-rate springs and a good fork fluid.

Ciao,

Well, I have 2 sets of 4th gen front forks, one -spare- OEM as is and one with Wilbers aftermarket springs (probably 50,000km on them now)

[image: HPIM3243.jpg]

The bike handles ok with either I would say, but looking if there is "better" out there

Thus soliciting  inputs from those that have actually fitted the GV's.

Re-shimming sound good but with no experience in this field........

The more inputs, the merrier!!

I had my Gen4 forks done at RaceTech years ago. Made a small improvement in handling and feel, but did not transform the bike. Going straight rate spring probably was the majority of the improvement, not sure the Gold Valve accomplished anything revalving the OEM piston wouldn't have. I think a cartridge kit, ala DMR, would be a better route. Also, IMO the RT spring rate calculator yields too high of a spring rate for street bikes. Had three bikes done there and the springs were too firm in all three. Funny, because I've used their calculator on several dirt bike setups and the rates calculated were spot on. YMMV.

Used to live in Garden Grove...you're a long way from home! Plan to ride any of the local roads while you're here?

Wish I was over stateside, but it is a friend (he rides an Aprilia Shiver here in NL) over for work (yes even on a Sunday...)

The DMR is nice but really to much $$$

Do you recall by how much the calculator is off? :unsure:

Entering my weight and keep the stated semi-wet of 211 kilo it comes up with .0976

What is semi-wet anyway?

dry weight is 209 so if I add oil and coolant and half a tank Icome to about 225 kilo and that gives a spring of 1.022

Available for the 4th gen are:

[image: Capture.JPG]

I weigh about the same as you and settled on 0.9 kg/mm springs because I didn't want to make the forks 'too hard' but I haven't found them to be hard at all. A lot firmer on the brakes but not hard at all in terms of bump compliance.
 
You do need to reduce the stock assembled preload, RT springs are delivered with enough aluminium tubing to cut a couple of sets of spacers.

If I had to do it again, I might go for 0.95 or even 1.0. As you state, the 210 odd kg 'semi-wet' weight that RT uses seems very low considering that the bike weighs about 240 kg fully tanked.
 
Another reason I stayed a bit below the RT recommended spring rate is to keep the front/back rates more balanced because I did not intend to replace the stock shock. Not that I found the stock shock all that great mind you but it was already paid for (I'm cheap).

PS: To second what JZH said, I still have the instructions that came with my FMGV S2040 GV kit and they specifically mention the VFR as one model that does not really need new rebound valves even though they say the opposite on their website.

I'll add my support to the statements above about keeping the stock valve bodies. There's a big difference between free-flowing GV's and the restrictive HMAS pistons in 5th and 6th gens, but I would guess not a world of difference for the 4th gen if the pistons are typical Showa 3-port pistons (see my picture below). I used some of the latter in my VTR1000 (which shared the HMAS parts) and I would say the result is very similar to my VFR which has Gold Valves.

I have followed RaceTech's recommended C33 shims set-up for the GV for compression, and I use a softer than RT set-up for rebound (but I do have VTR1000F rebound adjusters in place).

I agree that you should start with the correct springs; I have 0.90kg/mm in the VFR and 0.85 kg/mm in the VTR (which is a lighter bike) and I weigh "around" 85kg.[image: IMG_1367_1.jpg]

HMAS piston is the one below, right?

I'd add that the side shown is not the one where the comp shim stack sits. The bigger holes are the refill ports. The compression ports are the 4 tiny ones (approx. 1.7 mm diameter). Major difference in flow area with GVs. Not nearly as much difference with the older 3 port ones.

I wouldn't dream of using 15W fluid in HMAS forks as they're already harsh with the stock 10W. I don't remember having any gripe about harshness on the 4th Gen while running the much heavier RT springs and 15W which can only mean that they can flow much more oil.

OK, GV's are out of the window then............

Weighing ~94kg in the buff and reading that Race Tech street calculation is too hard, what would be the advise from those that have fitted linears?

Race Tech has the VF500F2 semi-wet weight at 180.5kilo where the dry weight per the manual is 189 kilo and 206kilo kerb weight

I get the following results:

180,5kg (each time user naked weight 94kilo, street riding) suggests a spring of Recommended Fork Spring Rate: 0.875 kg/mm

real dry weight 189 Recommended Fork Spring Rate: 0.903 kg/mm

kerb weight 206 kilo Recommended Fork Spring Rate: 0.96 kg/mm

Available are (with .05 intervals) from .70 to .95

At the back is a new YSS shock for solo rider

As for the 1997 VFR750F

RT's "semi-wet" 211kilo (each time 94 kilo rider naked, street riding) Recommended Fork Spring Rate: 0.976 kg/mm

209 kilo dry weight Recommended Fork Spring Rate: 0.976 kg/mm

kerb weight probably around 220 kilo (the Akrapovic took away ~4 kilo) Recommended Fork Spring Rate: 1.006 kg/mm

Available are (with .05 intervals) from .80 to 1.0

Wilbers 641 at the back

So Marsman and RC36rider how much do/did you weigh and what would your advise be?   (decision mine no worries :goofy: )

Could not find linears for the VF500F2 or 4th gen locally so would like to use the opportunity of RT with my friend in the US...

Aaaah, you have a Wilbers shock already!
 
Assuming you are happy with the shock, I'd match the front spring rate to what you have on the Wilbers according to the ratio given by RT i.e. about 17.8 to 1 (ratio expressed as rear spring rate to one single fork spring).

Any idea what spring rate you have on the shock? It should be printed on the spring in a format like 59/59-180-165.

Wilbers 59/59 220 - 150

[image: HPIM7002.jpg]

[image: gogogosml_zps8064a20d.jpg]

Yup! That's 220 N/mm.

BIG spring but it merely goes to show that as impressive as the numbers may seem, the VFR really does need a massive shock spring.

You spec'd it for two-up with luggage, I guess? That would alter the desirable rear/front ratio IMO.

Yes, I specified "2 up" way back...

No hydraulic preload on that one.

You don't feel the need to adjust preload when riding solo?

So how does that big spring feel? Firm and controlled rather than harsh I bet.

Play with the damping adjusters much?

Bummer that we don't know what kind of rate(s) the Wilbers fork springs are. :huh:

Alea iacta est......

Ordered GV+springs 0.9 for the puma (VF500F2),

decided not to order anything for redslut (4th Gen), sticking with the Wilbers springs.

Come spring I will take the front apart and give it a service. (I  have a spare set so riding will not be impaired)

Time to pour a malt to digest the credit card bill :goofy:

Got some 21yr old BenRiach Authenticus in the cupboard...

Thanks everyone for their inputs!!

When I had RT do my forks the first time in 2002, I weighed 160 lbs. They installed the S2040 GV with C34 valving and 0.90kg springs with 15mm spring preload. This setup was way too firm for my liking. A few years later I had them change the springs to 0.85 kg and C33 valving. Even with the lighter springs, I still have the preload adjusters all the way out.