Bazzazz Z-Bomb Question

Apologies if this has been covered, I did a search on the whole forum and within the stickied bazzaz dyno results thread and couldn't find an answer.

I understand the Z-bomb removed restrictions in 1st through 3rd, cool...sounds great.  Someone online (I do tend to take it all with a pinch of salt) has suggested the bike will run incorrectly altered air/fuel mix due to thinking it's in third all the time.  Is this correct?  Logic tells me no, as the bike reads the air coming in and adjusts accordingly...surely the gear wouldn't matter?  Let me know!

Thanks

the ECU has maps for each gear....3rd gear is not restricted so that map is used for first and second gear....it's an ok $65 remedy but not without compromises ....a $375 Guhl reflash eliminates those restrictions, plus eliminates the fuel cut on closed throttle in all gears....this is a govt mandate which shuts off the injectors on closed throttle above a certain rpm....the purpose is to prevent unburned gas from getting through the cylinder....the side effect is rough on/off throttle transition, such as when leaning into a turn or during low speed maneuvers....when you open the throttle while leaned over in a turn, the response is abrupt and somewhat awkward due to a fresh charge of fuel hitting a "dry" cylinder.....the reflash allows an idle mixture to enter the cylinder at closed throttle, eliminating the rough transition ....you may have to take a ride and try to feel what i'm talking about, but you will notice the improvement with the flash.....it even makes it shift a little smoother

this is a thorough explanation of the fuel cut ....from another company but they no longer make this product

What is"fuel cut" ??

(Fuel Cut is a federal emissions regulation requirement for all EFI vehicles sold in the USA since 1980...... NO VEHICLES ARE EXEMPT !! )
"Fuel cut" happens when you close the throttle anytime above a preset rpm, in other words the injectors will stop.....
Upon re-application of the throttle, there is a delay before the system will start back up and re-wet the intake tract and combustion chamber..... the rider feels this as a delay and jerky response from closed throttle.... especially while leaned over in a turn or trying to maneuver the bike at low speeds.
This can also be heard with an aftermarket exhaust as a loud pop/bang/flame when the injectors come back on
Under these conditions, throttle response is much less than precise. I have designed the FCEtm for these bikes, and as a result there is a very marked difference as to how much better these bikes respond and behave under any riding condition....
Using this product, this bike is transformed to a perfectly smooth and predictable ride under any riding condition, and the rider can pay more attention to where he/she is going rather than how carefully the unpredictable throttle is re-applied.

All models will benefit from no loud backfiring upon throttle re-application with this product

So this rough feel you've been on about which was solved by the Guhl re-flash is only pertinent to US bikes? There's no such restriction on UK/Euro bikes I am aware of.

That would explain why my 14 model has no fuelling issues at all.

The fueling on the later bikes, are far better than the fueling on the 2010-11 model. Honda addressed this by modifying the header pipes, and also the fueling map. The later model also has more bottom end, not a lot more, but enough for me to notice. The later model also runs a lot smoother at low revs. I would still fit the Z-bomb though, it would certainly give you more get up and go.

Europe is just as bad as our EPA....don't know if this is on EU bikes or not

my 2010 had flat spots in the midrange even after the z bomb and Zfi....gone with the reflash

...This can also be heard with an aftermarket exhaust as a loud pop/bang/flame when the injectors come back on

...All models will benefit from no loud backfiring upon throttle re-application with this productThis is 

The exhaust popping is unspent fuel being burnt off.  A lot of bikes have secondary air injection systems that adds air into the exhaust to encourage this.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with the typically amount of it.  In fact, with some engines, particularly Triumph triples, this exhaust burble can actually become a signature sound of the engine.  I'm very partial the the "Triple Burble".  Some riders make this problem worst by introducing mods that alter the fueling of the stock engine.  They almost always richen the mixture in search of more power.  This worsens the exhaust popping and can get bad enough to shoot flames out of the back end.

Fuel cut actually reduces the amount of trailing throttle burbling in an engine.  Again, there is nothing wrong with fuel cut if it is done correctly.  Some amount of it is beneficial and produces the engine braking that most riders prefer in a trailing throttle situation.  Mfrs do quite a bit of testing to make sure the amount is "just right".  IMO, the VFR1200's stock trailing throttle balance feels fine.  Neither is the exhaust burble excessive.  For a while, I was running a shortened 2Bro M5 can with no dB killer, and that sucker was loud.  IF there were any annoying exhaust popping, I would have heard it.

there is no testing for just right for manufacturers....the EPA mandates that fuel is cut OFF

The UK bikes won't have that EPA nonsense though, will they?  I'm assuming its similar to all that EVAP gear that is put on California VFR750's etc.

I just worry about sending my ECU all the way to the states from the UK, if it gets lost then I'm essentially left with an expensive door stop.

It was stated that there is "popping" when the throttle is rolled on again from a closed position. I have NEVER had that problem, a slight pop when I close the throttle for engine braking, which is normal. I'm truly convinced about the flash, I will do it as soon as my recall repair is finished actually. I can feel the jerky motions from the fuel cutoff, but that's about it unless I'm engine braking.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

The UK bikes won't have that EPA nonsense though, will they?  I'm assuming its similar to all that EVAP gear that is put on California VFR750's etc.

I just worry about sending my ECU all the way to the states from the UK, if it gets lost then I'm essentially left with an expensive door stop.

Nope, they're different bikes in those terms. As are the 12+ models which have much better fuelling.

You can send it tracked and be very confident it will get back to you safely surely?

The UK bikes won't have that EPA nonsense though, will they?  I'm assuming its similar to all that EVAP gear that is put on California VFR750's etc.

I just worry about sending my ECU all the way to the states from the UK, if it gets lost then I'm essentially left with an expensive door stop.

I looked on the parts website (Babbitts) and the 2013 ECU was $882.29, so I insured it for $1,000.00 and had no worries..............I de-catted and put a pipe and K&N filter in, and couldn't be happier as Don did a perfect job!

there is no testing for just right for manufacturers....the EPA mandates that fuel is cut OFF

I have played with enough fuel maps to know otherwise.  One reason I liked Triumphs is that for many of them, you can tune the fuel map (and change various parameters) via TuneECU, which is a freeware.  Attached is the stock map for the Speed Triple R I last played with.  If you look at the 0% throttle opening column, trim values for all RPM positions is non-zero.

Wish I could do that with the VFR1200, but no such luck.

Attached Images

• [image: S3R stock map.JPG]

I liked TuneECU for my Street Triple R. Was handy for uploading standard and altered maps.

Thing is, downloaded maps are never going to be perfect, they're a ballpark guess at best - every bike is different, even in stock shape.

Yes custom maps are preferable, but they are only as good as the guy using the dyno 

There is no such thing as a perfect map.  Even if it is your bike on the dyno, and the guy is a seasoned pro at his craft, it is still only optimized for the set of prevailing conditions during that dyno session.  Conditions change all the time - both the bike and atmospheric.  It's up to the rider to determine if good enough is actually good enough.  It does help that a lot of bikes these days have close loop feedback control (lambda sensor, knock sensor, etc.) and dynamic adaptation.

I have a question on the Z-Bomb for those that have it. I would obviously love to eventually get the Guhl map but thought I might try this first for a while. The bike I purchased has the Bazzazz TC/FI controller with quick shifter. This is compatible with the Z-Bomb isn't it? Thanks 

Yes.  Z-Bomb is compatible.  The Z-Bomb connects to the Gear Position Sensor (GPS) harness just above the shifter.  It has no electronics inside it, so it does not care what other mods have been done to your bike.

Yes.  Z-Bomb is compatible.  The Z-Bomb connects to the Gear Position Sensor (GPS) harness just above the shifter.  It has no electronics inside it, so it does not care what other mods have been done to your bike.

Thx

So, can anyone give me a yes/no answer then - will the Z-bomb at all fuck with a/f ratio - as far as I'm concerned it's just telling the bike it's in another gear, so should be of no consequence.  Right?

So, can anyone give me a yes/no answer then - will the Z-bomb at all fuck with a/f ratio - as far as I'm concerned it's just telling the bike it's in another gear, so should be of no consequence.  Right?

The Z-bomb, was one of the first mods I did on the VFR1200F, way before I de-cated the bike. The Z-bomb did not and does not interfere with the fueling. The Z-bomb transforms the acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear, as I have said many a time, by far the best value for money modification you will ever spend on your VFR1200.  

So, can anyone give me a yes/no answer then - will the Z-bomb at all fuck with a/f ratio - as far as I'm concerned it's just telling the bike it's in another gear, so should be of no consequence.  Right?

 
The Z-bomb, was one of the first mods I did on the VFR1200F, way before I de-cated the bike. The Z-bomb did not and does not interfere with the fueling. The Z-bomb transforms the acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear, as I have said many a time, by far the best value for money modification you will ever spend on your VFR1200.

There we go, nice simple answer.

I just bought one for a smidge over £30 :)

Yes Dave knows his stuff 

How did you manage that  John   second hand ?

Yes Dave knows his stuff 
 
 
How did you manage that  John   second hand ?

Yep, donated the money to a charity of the chaps choice and he's got it out in the post for me today. Coming from the states to the UK. Happy days, everyone's a winner :)

Nice one 

the ECU has maps for each gear....3rd gear is not restricted so that map is used for first and second gear....it's an ok $65 remedy but not without compromises ....a $375 Guhl reflash eliminates those restrictions, plus eliminates the fuel cut on closed throttle in all gears....this is a govt mandate which shuts off the injectors on closed throttle above a certain rpm....the purpose is to prevent unburned gas from getting through the cylinder....the side effect is rough on/off throttle transition, such as when leaning into a turn or during low speed maneuvers....when you open the throttle while leaned over in a turn, the response is abrupt and somewhat awkward due to a fresh charge of fuel hitting a "dry" cylinder.....the reflash allows an idle mixture to enter the cylinder at closed throttle, eliminating the rough transition ....you may have to take a ride and try to feel what i'm talking about, but you will notice the improvement with the flash.....it even makes it shift a little smoother

this is a thorough explanation of the fuel cut ....from another company but they no longer make this product

What is"fuel cut" ??

(Fuel Cut is a federal emissions regulation requirement for all EFI vehicles sold in the USA since 1980...... NO VEHICLES ARE EXEMPT !! )
"Fuel cut" happens when you close the throttle anytime above a preset rpm, in other words the injectors will stop.....
Upon re-application of the throttle, there is a delay before the system will start back up and re-wet the intake tract and combustion chamber..... the rider feels this as a delay and jerky response from closed throttle.... especially while leaned over in a turn or trying to maneuver the bike at low speeds.
This can also be heard with an aftermarket exhaust as a loud pop/bang/flame when the injectors come back on
Under these conditions, throttle response is much less than precise. I have designed the FCEtm for these bikes, and as a result there is a very marked difference as to how much better these bikes respond and behave under any riding condition....
Using this product, this bike is transformed to a perfectly smooth and predictable ride under any riding condition, and the rider can pay more attention to where he/she is going rather than how carefully the unpredictable throttle is re-applied.

All models will benefit from no loud backfiring upon throttle re-application with this product

For what its worth, I have tuned my 2007 vfr800 vtec using Rapid Bike Racing and 4 wide band o2 sensors, closed loop tuning, data logging and an AFR readout. I have found that there is a fuel cut on the vfr vtec, but it is only in gears 4th, 5th and 6th. There was no fuel cut in the lower three gears.

I would like to try a 'de-restricted' 1200 just to see what I am clearly missing, though the inner OCD in me would struggle with the incorrect gear indicator.

i have not fitted my Z Bomb yet but you can come and try it when I do

I would like to try a 'de-restricted' 1200 just to see what I am clearly missing, though the inner OCD in me would struggle with the incorrect gear indicator.

So get the reflash

That is the choice....leave as is, which is fine as far as I know, re-flash which is great but costs a lot or the Z-bomb which is cheap but leaves you with a spong'd gear indicator & unknown (to me) advantages in gears 1/2.

So a test ride would be of great value.

Chanmenie, thanks for the offer m8, I may well take you up on it but I wont be back in the country until May at the earliest. :beer:

 
Chanmenie, thanks for the offer m8, I may well take you up on it but I wont be back in the country until May at the earliest. :beer:

Well that gives me plenty of time to finish running it in and fitting the Z Bomb then

Running it in? Doesn't need that, thrash it! YKIMS!

Running it in? Doesn't need that, thrash it! YKIMS!

to run them in properly,   firm acceleration and deceleration but limit max revs    

in other words yes thrash it     :biggrin:

Mine's en route from the States now. I'll bring the bike out of hiding once it's here...I'm not riding it with that bullshit restriction in place, I need overtaking power.

You had the reflash done then John ?

No, the Zbomb, I bought it off a chap in Florida :)

...I need overtaking power.

What, you don't think it overtakes quickly enough now?  :wacko:

if one doesnot know the benefit of a quick downshift, the DCT version may be the better option :goofy:

...I need overtaking power.

What, you don't think it overtakes quickly enough now?  :wacko:

if one doesnot know the benefit of a quick downshift, the DCT version may be the better option :goofy:

Don't be a pair of dozy bastards, it doesn't suit you.

When you have a nigh on 40bhp drop RIGHT in the middle of first and second (which filtering in London, believe it or not, is where you spend most of your time), overtaking goes from a pleasure to an exercise in dangerous futility.

Dutchy, not being funny mate, but what the feck would you know about it?  Have you got a 1200?  You seem to chime in on a lot of stuff you presumably have no experience in.  I can whizz past any vehicle all day on my 750, as you can, as there's no power restrictions.

Johny, in case you have not noticed, we tend not to call each other bastards here on VFRD.

Since you asked, I have been riding the 1200 when it came out, the regular, the DCT and the Xtourer.

I did the same 2 years later on the 1200 and DCT... so yeah, I believe I know what I'm talking about.

But that seems not to be the issue here, more you getting your blood pressure up if whatever you state gets a ? from anyone.

What's next? Threatening to leave VFRD, then leave, but still come back? We had a few of those over the years.

If you bought the 1200 to filter through traffic in 1st or 2nd, you bought the wrong bike. Bulk for starters...

But no, you bought it because it was cheap, could not resist "the steal" and now slag it for not being a supermotard?

If you have a problem with my posts, simply use the tools available to you to stop seeing posts from me.

Or call me a fecking ignorant cloggy B...  at your pleasure.

I only care for what my friends here at VFRD call me.

:offtopic:

[image: Capture.JPG]

John, always difficult to pick up from the keyboard whether someone is tongue-in-cheek or serious.

Perhaps I haven't ridden my 1200 enough or don't ride it where a 40bhp loss is significant, but I can honestly say I have not noticed any issues so far. Hence my interest in riding a 1200 that has the Z-bomb mod or ECU re-flash.

Best wishes with your mod, I hope it does what you want it to.

Tongue in cheek, always tongue in cheek.

Riding on the open road, the bike would be fine. In London traffic where I (unfortunately) spend about 95% of my riding time... it's dangerous, literally.

If the dip wasn't so instant and in the wrong place, I'd have no issue with it - unfortunately it's right where it matters for quick overtake filtering. I never have and never will be the type of rider to sit behind other vehicles, if there's a gap and my experience tells me I can make it, I'll go for it. The 1200 wouldn't give me that ability in it's current state.

I'll let you know what it's like with a Zbomb. TBH I know it'll be fine as the dyno charts show that it removes the dip in power and that's all that matters. I'm due to properly start using the bike on my commute from next week, hoping the Zbomb turns up or my commute will be considerably longer than usual, as I won't be risking my usual overtake stunts without the Zbomb in place.

A) But that seems not to be the issue here, more you getting your blood pressure up if whatever you state gets a ? from anyone. 
 
B) If you bought the 1200 to filter through traffic in 1st or 2nd, you bought the wrong bike. Bulk for starters...
But no, you bought it because it was cheap, could not resist "the steal" and now slag it for not being a supermotard?
 
c) If you have a problem with my posts, simply use the tools available to you to stop seeing posts from me.
Or call me a fecking ignorant cloggy B...  at your pleasure.
I only care for what my friends here at VFRD call me.

A) haha, the irony.
B) Don't tell me what bike is and isn't right for filtering. Again, you know feck all about it. You don't live in London and you have NO idea about my riding style or abilities. I throw a 750 around and it's only a smidge lighter than the 1200 and considerably less well laid out.
C) Grow a pair will ya. There's only one person getting in a flap around here ;)

Your experiences on a 1200 are irrelevant, I've ridden all over the shop and NOWHERE is like London for wall to wall traffic and bikers filtering, it's incredibly unique. I'll also slate the bike all I want, it's mine and I can. I'm voicing an opinion on something I'm directly affected by, in a town that I have lived in for years, on a bike that I physically own. Whereas you're just typically chiming in with little to no experience. Calm down old boy, you're getting too long in the tooth to be getting your blood pressure up like this.

fight nice kiddies !!!!!!!..........i didn't buy my VFR1200s for traffic filtering either.....that doesn't mean that i don't end up in those situations....i felt the same way about the stock bike.....that it was dangerous in slow speed traffic situations.....after the reflash, it's fun to ride it in NYC

John, always difficult to pick up from the keyboard whether someone is tongue-in-cheek or serious.

Perhaps I haven't ridden my 1200 enough or don't ride it where a 40bhp loss is significant, but I can honestly say I have not noticed any issues so far. Hence my interest in riding a 1200 that has the Z-bomb mod or ECU re-flash.

Best wishes with your mod, I hope it does what you want it to.

Skids  next time you ride your bike  pin the throttle in second from low revs , then do the same in third   you'll feel the difference. Especially with a pillion on board.

John, always difficult to pick up from the keyboard whether someone is tongue-in-cheek or serious.

Perhaps I haven't ridden my 1200 enough or don't ride it where a 40bhp loss is significant, but I can honestly say I have not noticed any issues so far. Hence my interest in riding a 1200 that has the Z-bomb mod or ECU re-flash.

Best wishes with your mod, I hope it does what you want it to.

Skids  next time you ride your bike  pin the throttle in second from low revs , then do the same in third   you'll feel the difference. Especially with a pillion on board.

Remind me in May. :sad:   :sad:

Can it really be true that the standard Viffer 1200 is dangerous to ride in traffic? I don't think so. Mine's standard, engine wise, other than having a DAM fitted, it is absolutely fine in all situations and accelerates wonderfully (when you're in the right gear) making overtakes an absolute joy. It's ample for the UK's roads IMO.

I mean, people ride cycles and mopeds in our cities and they still filter ;-)

if you're happy with the bike, by all means, leave it the way it is.....for those who want to enjoy the bike's full potential, do the reflash....in my 40+ years of modifying bikes, nothing has come anywhere close to the bang for the buck of the Guhl reflash

Can it really be true that the standard Viffer 1200 is dangerous to ride in traffic? I don't think so. Mine's standard, engine wise, other than having a DAM fitted, it is absolutely fine in all situations and accelerates wonderfully (when you're in the right gear) making overtakes an absolute joy. It's ample for the UK's roads IMO.

I mean, people ride cycles and mopeds in our cities and they still filter ;-)

You're out by Cambridge, I go out there with my friends to hoon around and get above 2nd gear.

Again, that's not city riding...London is it's own beast, I've managed 4th gear about 5 times in my entire time riding here, it's fucking awful. You'd think the congestion charge would put people off....clearly not.
Just to add, I live 4 miles outside the City, and I mean the City...not some pretend part of London that's just a suburb. My commute is wall to wall traffic, buses, cyclists, wobbly fair weather riders during the summer, tossers on GS's that insist on commuting in on their GS1200's with ALL the luggage attached so you can't get past them properly in heavy traffic, people walking across the road while tweeting some celebrity nonsense, and that's just trying to get off Fenchurch Street....the list is endless.

Can it really be true that the standard Viffer 1200 is dangerous to ride in traffic? I don't think so. Mine's standard, engine wise, other than having a DAM fitted, it is absolutely fine in all situations and accelerates wonderfully (when you're in the right gear) making overtakes an absolute joy. It's ample for the UK's roads IMO.I mean, people ride cycles and mopeds in our cities and they still filter ;-)

You're out by Cambridge, I go out there with my friends to hoon around and get above 2nd gear.Again, that's not city riding...London is it's own beast, I've managed 4th gear about 5 times in my entire time riding here, it's fucking awful. You'd think the congestion charge would put people off....clearly not.Just to add, I live 4 miles outside the City, and I mean the City...not some pretend part of London that's just a suburb. My commute is wall to wall traffic, buses, cyclists, wobbly fair weather riders during the summer, tossers on GS's that insist on commuting in on their GS1200's with ALL the luggage attached so you can't get past them properly in heavy traffic, people walking across the road while tweeting some celebrity nonsense, and that's just trying to get off Fenchurch Street....the list is endless.

Yes, I only ride it round here ;-)

Each to his own. Hope you enjoy the bike. I just find it's fine for making good progress on the UK's roads as it is. It's not the power, it's how you use it!! :-)

if you're happy with the bike, by all means, leave it the way it is.....for those who want to enjoy the bike's full potential, do the reflash....in my 40+ years of modifying bikes, nothing has come anywhere close to the bang for the buck of the Guhl reflash

And it's folk like you that end up depleting my bank balance! :wacko:

For someone to claim it makes THAT much difference, and all the others who claim it changes the bike, there really must be something to it, it's just I've never noticed anything lacking.

So, my aim this summer when I get back will be to find a friendly fellow VFRD'er who has done either the Z-Bomb or Guhl mod and ask kindly for a test ride of their bike to see just what it is I'm clearly missing.

Mr Chanmenie has kindly offered and he's not too far away from me so a trip to Norfolk is on the cards. Coming with me Martin?

if you're happy with the bike, by all means, leave it the way it is.....for those who want to enjoy the bike's full potential, do the reflash....in my 40+ years of modifying bikes, nothing has come anywhere close to the bang for the buck of the Guhl reflash

 
And it's folk like you that end up depleting my bank balance! :wacko:
 
For someone to claim it makes THAT much difference, and all the others who claim it changes the bike, there really must be something to it, it's just I've never noticed anything lacking.
 
So, my aim this summer when I get back will be to find a friendly fellow VFRD'er who has done either the Z-Bomb or Guhl mod and ask kindly for a test ride of their bike to see just what it is I'm clearly missing.
 
Mr Chanmenie has kindly offered and he's not too far away from me so a trip to Norfolk is on the cards. Coming with me Martin?

Yeah, why not, I've got an open mind.

I might even meet you guy's part way,  I have a mate who lives in Royston

I might even meet you guy's part way,  I have a mate who lives in Royston

We know some nice roads around Norfolk & a couple of nice cafes too. :beer:   

Free to pop round mine anytime to take it out for a blast. We can hit the Surrey Hills, about 30 minutes from me.

Well it would be interesting to compare. Forgive my pessimism, I just have to see things for myself before I believe them.

big dip in power > no dip in power.  Can't see where the pessimism can come from tbh, can you honestly not feel the restriction if you open it up in 1st and 2nd?

big dip in power > no dip in power.  Can't see where the pessimism can come from tbh, can you honestly not feel the restriction if you open it up in 1st and 2nd?

Here's the thing, I've ridden all sorts of bikes over a quite varied and so far 34 year biking career. I've ridden fast sports bikes that do indeed pick up amazingly well. I've ridden some nails that bore you rigid waiting for something to happen. I've used an 800Fi1 (5th gen) for a long time and now the big 1200 for a couple of years. I've been told all sorts of tails about modifications people have done to their road bikes on the web and so on but yet, when those people come out on one of my clubs rideouts they never seem to disappear into the distance and make me think, wow, I need that mod!!!

Both the VFR800 and 1200 are very capable road bikes, the best kind of road bike IMHO. They're both more than capable of showing many other vehicles a clean pair of heels and, again IMHO, don't need any performance enhancements to continue being very capable road bikes. But, there's a very understandable difference between 'need' and 'want' or 'prefer'. I completely understand the desire to remove restrictions and 'improve' things to a personal liking. But, that doesn't mean it's needed or that everyone should believe 'internet opinions' without any personal experience or a recommendation from a known and trusted mate.

I doubt I'll be sending my ECU to another continent to a company I've no personal knowledge of. But if I get to test a modified bike and think wow, I need that mod, I might change my mind.

But in all honesty, it doesn't matter to me. The thing's plenty quick enough and I can tell you many a boring tale of how extra power / pick up / whatever didn't help the user.

In the meantime, I'll continue on my sedate way to wherever my big viffer takes me ;-)

M8, if you're sedate, I'm downright snail-paced!

It turned up today, I'll plug it in tomorrow as the weather is due to pick up and see how it goes.  

It turned up today, I'll plug it in tomorrow as the weather is due to pick up and see how it goes.  

It turned up today, I'll plug it in tomorrow as the weather is due to pick up and see how it goes.  

Did you mean to put something in reply there matey?  haha :)

While I have you, can you confirm if the caliper seizing issue is a year specific issue?  If I can pick up a later model pair of calipers, I will - can't be arsed constantly cleaning the calipers and spraying them down with various mixtures to try and keep the most important part of the bike from killing me randomly.

When I first got my bike, it was way more smooth and linear than my 750 because of the big grunt of torque at the low end. I was amazed at how much more immediate the throttle inputs were, compared to what I was used to, also I had barely ridden in the last 15 years. Once I cleared the break-in period, I gave a big pull on the throttle......WWWOOOAAAAHHHH, I was barely ready for that! After that the bike intimidated to me, and it suited me fine for quite awhile - I was happy, and kept wondering what all the chatter was about the Z-Bomb on this forum. I figured I didn't need it, or that they fixed it for 2013. 

Once I got new tires (stock ones are crap), the bike felt more "under" me and under my control. I was much less intimidated, and started pushing it. One day on a mountain road, I pulled out to pass a car on an uphill straightaway - I was in 2nd gear, at lower revs (4K-ish?) - I gave her the full beans and braced for "impact" - well, I nearly pushed myself over the bars, as I was in the "No Go Zone" of the torque dip. I had to limp back in my lane after realizing what had happened, and might not have the steam to make the pass. After that, I spent the rest of the day playing with the throttle, to see where the issue was, so I would be prepared to ride around it. I came to the conclusion that I would need the Z-Bomb, or a re-flash. 

I got the Z-Bomb, and liked it, but also realized I was already addicted to the gear indicator. I had a rock puncture my radiator on the Silver State/Kernville ride and had to limp home several hundred miles. With everything apart, I opted to de-cat,and re-flash as I already had a pipe.

I can see how a conservative rider would not even notice the need for any mods, and a good rider can ride the tits off of a stock bike. I did not even notice for the first year of ownership. I however did not want to "ride around" that huge torque dip right in the middle of the fun zone, and I like modifying my vehicles. 

VFR's are a jack of all trades, motorcycle - I see some people modifying them for more performance, and some more for comfort, and for the lucky few, they are perfect the way they are.

It turned up today, I'll plug it in tomorrow as the weather is due to pick up and see how it goes.  

Did you mean to put something in reply there matey?  haha :)

While I have you, can you confirm if the caliper seizing issue is a year specific issue?  If I can pick up a later model pair of calipers, I will - can't be arsed constantly cleaning the calipers and spraying them down with various mixtures to try and keep the most important part of the bike from killing me randomly.

It turned up today, I'll plug it in tomorrow as the weather is due to pick up and see how it goes.  

Did you mean to put something in reply there matey?  haha :)

While I have you, can you confirm if the caliper seizing issue is a year specific issue?  If I can pick up a later model pair of calipers, I will - can't be arsed constantly cleaning the calipers and spraying them down with various mixtures to try and keep the most important part of the bike from killing me randomly.

Either you've gone mental or you need to click the little switch to go back to BBCode Mode!  This happens to me on occasion, I quote someone and I can't type anything.

When I first got my bike, it was way more smooth and linear than my 750 because of the big grunt of torque at the low end. I was amazed at how much more immediate the throttle inputs were, compared to what I was used to, also I had barely ridden in the last 15 years. Once I cleared the break-in period, I gave a big pull on the throttle......WWWOOOAAAAHHHH, I was barely ready for that! After that the bike intimidated to me, and it suited me fine for quite awhile - I was happy, and kept wondering what all the chatter was about the Z-Bomb on this forum. I figured I didn't need it, or that they fixed it for 2013. 

Once I got new tires (stock ones are crap), the bike felt more "under" me and under my control. I was much less intimidated, and started pushing it. One day on a mountain road, I pulled out to pass a car on an uphill straightaway - I was in 2nd gear, at lower revs (4K-ish?) - I gave her the full beans and braced for "impact" - well, I nearly pushed myself over the bars, as I was in the "No Go Zone" of the torque dip. I had to limp back in my lane after realizing what had happened, and might not have the steam to make the pass. After that, I spent the rest of the day playing with the throttle, to see where the issue was, so I would be prepared to ride around it. I came to the conclusion that I would need the Z-Bomb, or a re-flash. 

I got the Z-Bomb, and liked it, but also realized I was already addicted to the gear indicator. I had a rock puncture my radiator on the Silver State/Kernville ride and had to limp home several hundred miles. With everything apart, I opted to de-cat,and re-flash as I already had a pipe.

I can see how a conservative rider would not even notice the need for any mods, and a good rider can ride the tits off of a stock bike. I did not even notice for the first year of ownership. I however did not want to "ride around" that huge torque dip right in the middle of the fun zone, and I like modifying my vehicles. 

VFR's are a jack of all trades, motorcycle - I see some people modifying them for more performance, and some more for comfort, and for the lucky few, they are perfect the way they are.

I can see where you may be coming from in regards to it being smoother.  However, an injected bike is NEVER going to be as smooth and seemless as it's carbed equivalent.  My posh VFR750 that has as-new/rebuilt carbs (all new seals, diaphragms etc) is faultless and much, much smoother than any injected bikes I've owned or ridden (and I've been through a fair few)

But if the carbs aren't balanced or the bike is just a bit worn, running lean or rich etc...like I said, I can understand, there's a lot more headaches with carbs than Fi in my experience.

 Hi john, thanks for the heads up, what the fook happened there I don't know, but you could be right on your first thought. What I was trying to print in the first place was. On your first test ride, just hold on, because you will have a lot more get up and go. But be careful on our cold and greasy roads, its maybe not the best time of year to feel the full potential of the Z-bomb.

It turned up today, I'll plug it in tomorrow as the weather is due to pick up and see how it goes.  

Did you mean to put something in reply there matey?  haha :)

While I have you, can you confirm if the caliper seizing issue is a year specific issue?  If I can pick up a later model pair of calipers, I will - can't be arsed constantly cleaning the calipers and spraying them down with various mixtures to try and keep the most important part of the bike from killing me randomly.

Either you've gone mental or you need to click the little switch to go back to BBCode Mode!  This happens to me on occasion, I quote someone and I can't type anything.

Don't worry, not my first large capacity bike...but thanks for the heads up :)  

Any ideas on the calipers?  I'd rather swerve creating yet another thread....I'm wondering if the binding is just the 2010 model that's affected really

 No John, it does not matter which model you have, but its only some bikes that suffer with this, I personally have not had a issue with mine, I tend to remove the pads every 4,000 miles, and give the pistons and callipers a good clean, seems to work for me.

Don't worry, not my first large capacity bike...but thanks for the heads up :)  

Any ideas on the calipers?  I'd rather swerve creating yet another thread....I'm wondering if the binding is just the 2010 model that's affected really

Ok cool, it's got a bit of dragging going on when I wheel it out the garage.  Might just take them off the forks tomorrow and push the pistons out a bit and give them a quick clean.  As it's an ex fuzz bike, it's been used in all weathers so I imagine they're a bit dirty.  

Give them a good clean and spray with GT85 I find that works well

I'm assuming you mean while they're off the bike...isn't GT85 a lubricant?  Wouldn't imagine that's good to have around the pads and discs?!

I'm assuming you mean while they're off the bike...isn't GT85 a lubricant?  Wouldn't imagine that's good to have around the pads and discs?!

Yes of course when off the bike, you can't clean them properly when they are still attached. And yes GT85 on the discs and pads would not be advisable.

If you fancy a trip to Norwich I'll do them for you. My rates are cheap

it's ok, thanks for the offer but I'm far from spanner shy :)

it's ok, thanks for the offer but I'm far from spanner shy :)

Yes sorry John was confusing you with some else who posted on the other forum about brakes sticking on.

No worries!

So the results are in.  Loving how brutal and rapid it is through the first two gears now...much more my style.  Bit of a ballache to fit unless you have lady fingers however!

Brutal not smooth? Or both?

it's ok, thanks for the offer but I'm far from spanner shy :)

Yes sorry John was confusing you with some else who posted on the other forum about brakes sticking on.

ha ha..... That would be me then

Can nip round mine if you want help with brakes, Flaming.  I live in S.E London near Greenwich and have all the tools you could ever need.

Brutal not smooth? Or both?

Smooth but without the silly power dip.  Noticeably better to ride (in my opinion) because of it.

it's ok, thanks for the offer but I'm far from spanner shy :)

Yes sorry John was confusing you with some else who posted on the other forum about brakes sticking on.

ha ha..... That would be me then

Well yes it was T, I was not going to mention names. Still no disgrace in admitting it if your not handy with the spanners
There's loads of peeps who don't have the confidence.
I was trained as a mechanic when I left school so I'm happy to have a go at anything.

Can nip round mine if you want help with brakes, Flaming.  I live in S.E London near Greenwich and have all the tools you could ever need.

Thanks John... I'll keep that offer in mind. Brakes seem ok now after taking all the helpful advice on these forums.
 

Brutal not smooth? Or both?

 
Smooth but without the silly power dip.  Noticeably better to ride (in my opinion) because of it.

Can nip round mine if you want help with brakes, Flaming.  I live in S.E London near Greenwich and have all the tools you could ever need.

Thanks John... I'll keep that offer in mind. Brakes seem ok now after taking all the helpful advice on these forums.
 

Brutal not smooth? Or both?

 
Smooth but without the silly power dip.  Noticeably better to ride (in my opinion) because of it.

No worries mate.  Where abouts in Surrey?  I'll be going up boxhill at the first sign of nice weather if you're about

Can nip round mine if you want help with brakes, Flaming.  I live in S.E London near Greenwich and have all the tools you could ever need.
Thanks John... I'll keep that offer in mind. Brakes seem ok now after taking all the helpful advice on these forums.
 

Brutal not smooth? Or both?

 
Smooth but without the silly power dip.  Noticeably better to ride (in my opinion) because of it.

 
No worries mate.  Where abouts in Surrey?  I'll be going up boxhill at the first sign of nice weather if you're about

Reigate area... Sent you a message. Let me know when you are around Rykas / Newlands.

I will second John's motion that the Z-bomb works! If you don't mind the gear indicator issue then this is about the best $50 bucks you can spend. Totally transforms 1st & 2nd gear. Pulls like a freight train and anyone who says its fast enough anyway, you may be right but do yourself a favor and ride someone's with the Bazzazz or the reflash to see what you are missing. I'll do the refresh eventually if I keep her long enough but for now this does the trick and with the FI controller I just need a little Dyno time and have it tuned, it should rip even better then. Really impressed that this $50 doohickey works so well. Kind of a shame Honda just didn't flash the ECU like this from the factory.........

Precisely.  A reflash for anyone in the UK with a manual 1200 is pointless imo.  You can't do 170mph+ here, you can't even do more than 20mph in most of London.  There's cameras everywhere, you can't even scratch your arse without being seen.  People screaming the benefits of a reflash...does it REALLY offer more than the zbomb?  I can't see any benefit at all.

you mention people screaming the benefits of the reflash but has any of it sunk in ???? i'm tired of writing this shit out for people to ignore ....the overall rieability of the bike is gratly improved.....i'm not trying to sell reflashes, i don't get anything out of it.....if you insist on debating the advise that people who have ridden the stock, Zbombed and reflashed bikes offer, then suit yourself.....don't get it done

i really thought that my 2010 ran great with the Z bomb and Z-Fi installed but went for the re-flash mainly to restore the gear position indicator ....i was VERY surprised at how much difference the re-flash made

you mention people screaming the benefits of the reflash but has any of it sunk in ???? i'm tired of writing this shit out for people to ignore ....the overall rieability of the bike is gratly improved.....i'm not trying to sell reflashes, i don't get anything out of it.....if you insist on debating the advise that people who have ridden the stock, Zbombed and reflashed bikes offer, then suit yourself.....don't get it done

i really thought that my 2010 ran great with the Z bomb and Z-Fi installed but went for the re-flash mainly to restore the gear position indicator ....i was VERY surprised at how much difference the re-flash made

But Ishark did you also have a fuel map installed with the reflash ?  the reflash to just remove the restrictions should give the same results as the ZBomb  but the advantage being the gear indicator still works

I just got my ECU back from Don Guhl. I have not even put it back in yet, so I cannot speak to any benefit yet. But I can say that when I spoke with Don, I told him the kind of riding I do, the mods I had done or planned to do and what I wanted out of the flash. In my case, I do not plan on doing a de-cat nor pair elimination and only have a DAM exhaust. He loaded a map with those parameters. He also said that if it wasn't to my liking, I could have it reflashed and only pay the shipping. 

So no matter what the flash is, you will be getting something the Z-bomb doesn't do. There is also the fan temp change, max rpm change and something else I can't remember that you have the option of changing that the Z-bomb can't do. Now, all that being said, if someone wants to use a Z-bomb, more power to them.

I just got my ECU back from Don Guhl. I have not even put it back in yet, so I cannot speak to any benefit yet. But I can say that when I spoke with Don, I told him the kind of riding I do, the mods I had done or planned to do and what I wanted out of the flash. In my case, I do not plan on doing a de-cat nor pair elimination and only have a DAM exhaust. He loaded a map with those parameters. He also said that if it wasn't to my liking, I could have it reflashed and only pay the shipping. 
 
So no matter what the flash is, you will be getting something the Z-bomb doesn't do. There is also the fan temp change, max rpm change and something else I can't remember that you have the option of changing that the Z-bomb can't do. Now, all that being said, if someone wants to use a Z-bomb, more power to them.

It ends up being a cheaper, quicker option that many do before they know about Guhl. I didn't know until 2 weeks ago and I've had the bike with a Z-bomb for almost a year now

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

you mention people screaming the benefits of the reflash but has any of it sunk in ???? i'm tired of writing this shit out for people to ignore ....the overall rieability of the bike is gratly improved.....i'm not trying to sell reflashes, i don't get anything out of it.....if you insist on debating the advise that people who have ridden the stock, Zbombed and reflashed bikes offer, then suit yourself.....don't get it done

i really thought that my 2010 ran great with the Z bomb and Z-Fi installed but went for the re-flash mainly to restore the gear position indicator ....i was VERY surprised at how much difference the re-flash made

But Ishark did you also have a fuel map installed with the reflash ?  the reflash to just remove the restrictions should give the same results as the ZBomb  but the advantage being the gear indicator still wo

of course it was remapped, but the reflash goes much deeper,... it eliminates the off throttle fuel cut which is a (foolish) EPA mandate on all fuel injected vehicles....this makes on off throttle transition much smoother, and makes shifting gears smoother too....getting back on the throttle while leaned over is not abrupt any more....overall throttle control is much better......also the exhaust servo can be bypassed allowing it's removal

But that off throttle cut-off is only for US bikes isn't it? EPA has no mandate over here.

Still agree that it goes much deeper than a Z-bomb though. Can see why you'd try a Z-bomb first though.

As it stands, having ridden the bike for about ten days in absolutely minging London traffic and having a couple of open road belters on it...I can confirm that I suffer with no low speed jerkiness, there is the obvious, marginal on/off at very low rpm in first, but otherwise fine.  I also see no need to be skimming past 140mph unless you're on a track/the autobahn.  So yeah, the Zbomb works just fine for a fraction of the reflash cost.
 
If I had a DCT, I would likely have the reflash as it's the only work around for that daft power dip.

But that off throttle cut-off is only for US bikes isn't it? EPA has no mandate over here.
 
Still agree that it goes much deeper than a Z-bomb though. Can see why you'd try a Z-bomb first though.

How're you finding the suspension changes on your bike in comparison to standard? The factory internals and shock seem ok for what I'm doing atm, but wouldn't turn my nose up at a new set of bouncy stuff all round if the changes are night and day....

As it stands, having ridden the bike for about ten days in absolutely minging London traffic and having a couple of open road belters on it...I can confirm that I suffer with no low speed jerkiness, there is the obvious, marginal on/off at very low rpm in first, but otherwise fine.  I also see no need to be skimming past 140mph unless you're on a track/the autobahn.  So yeah, the Zbomb works just fine for a fraction of the reflash cost.
 
If I had a DCT, I would likely have the reflash as it's the only work around for that daft power dip.

But that off throttle cut-off is only for US bikes isn't it? EPA has no mandate over here.
 
Still agree that it goes much deeper than a Z-bomb though. Can see why you'd try a Z-bomb first though.

How're you finding the suspension changes on your bike in comparison to standard? The factory internals and shock seem ok for what I'm doing atm, but wouldn't turn my nose up at a new set of bouncy stuff all round if the changes are night and day....

I doubt you'd notice any change on your normal ride in town but on the twisties it's a very different story.

Much easier to turn in, more stable and far easier to hold a line on an opening throttle - it's stopped drifting wide. I'd liken it to my 6th Gen (Nitron shock); it feels as light and easy to point yet stable and confidence-inspiring.

A lot of money so depending upon the type of riding folk do it could be a waste of money or money well spent. For me it's the latter.

Yeah it's a tough choice, I'm still umming and ahhing about this bike.  For the price I've paid, it's a laughably good bike...almost too good to be true.  But it feels like I'm missing a connection with it, I think I've been spoilt by the 750 sound track and oldskool charm.  I need to get this thing out on the open road and really give it a chance to shine.

If I sell it then I'll give you dibs on the Zbomb!  :happy: