When I'm riding and go over a sharp bump like a railway line etc, I hear and feel a sharp and solid bang coming from the forks. Seems to happen at full compression, and normal damping seems to be fine. I've looked around the head stem, and can't find any evidence of contact, so I'm thinking it might be internal?
I've got this much travel, which I think is normal?:
Interesting. A loose steering head bearing can give you the same sensation. Jack up the front and give the forks a hard pull front to back. I'm sure you tightened them but I always like to eliminate everything. Any marks on the back of the fender or radiator to indicate contact? Scratching my head as to what may have gone wrong with the internals. How much travel is that zip tie showing?
Thanks Kel. I just double-checked the head bearings and can't see any movement there. The zip tie is dead on 90mm to the top of the slider. No marks on radiator or fender, but the bang-stop definitely sounds and feels like a hard metal-to-metal contact. It doesn't jar the 'bars the way a head bearing might, so I think I'm gonna have to strip the forks again.
Something's a miss. I think you should get more travel than that? I know my 83 750F will slide up very near the turn signal bracket under hard braking (granted that is with the stock, too soft, springs).
Bummer ripping shit apart, but sounds like you have to.
Where is your horn mounted? The fork brace/fender might be hitting it at full fork compression, if it is in between the fork legs. Had similar happen to me when I lowered my front end by pulling the tubes up a bit through the triples. Solved the problem by relocating my horn.......
It's a dumb question (and I don't know the 1000R fork at all, apart from looking at the parts fiche) but have you got the rebound adjusting fork cap on the correct leg? Looks like the damper rods on the left and right are different.
It's a dumb question (and I don't know the 1000R fork at all, apart from looking at the parts fiche) but have you got the rebound adjusting fork cap on the correct leg? Looks like the damper rods on the left and right are different.
Good question Terry, and I hope to find out when I pull them apart again.
The oil lock piece is there to stop the fork bottoming hard. It basically acts as a hydraulic cushion, coming into effect just when the end of the fork tube starts to overlap the oil-lock. Assuming it's not floating around loose in there looking mangled, then maybe what you felt was a genuine bottom out. When you rebuild the forks, wrap a zip-tie around the tube so you can check how much travel you're using. I would also stroke the fork through the full travel before putting the spring back in, and noting where the dust seal stops on the fork tube, and marking that with a permanent marker. That will enable you to see how close to bottoming you are when you ride.
The oil lock piece is there to stop the fork bottoming hard. It basically acts as a hydraulic cushion, coming into effect just when the end of the fork tube starts to overlap the oil-lock. Assuming it's not floating around loose in there looking mangled, then maybe what you felt was a genuine bottom out.
Thanks Terry. Judging by your description that's the piece I need, because that's exactly what's happening. I'll have to see if I can pick one up somewhere.
Good luck finding the part, mate. I looked up a parts fiche and unfortunately it looks like that bit is only found in the 1000R. A lot of racers and others actually pull the oil lock out of the fork so they can use the last few mm of travel better. If you can't find the genuine part, maybe you could just avoid bottoming out by adding more spring preload, or increasing the fork oil level a bit.
Yeah, not sure about that, as they're different from left to right, and the diagram on the fiche just doesn't look right? The one I'm after is more complicated, with an O-ring to seal it. I just don't see Honda selling that for such a low price ;-) I think Terry's right, and I'm going to struggle.
I've had a good poke around, and as far as I can tell, it's not stuck in there.
Ian, the US bikes (85 86 actually) use different fork internals than the Aussie 84 R's.
The centre code for the 84 is MB6 from memory.
I will check later when I go down the shed.
Bugger :-( I've just stumped up $40 for a DSS order. This is a spare set of forks I got from the UK for my 750, but I would hazard a guess they're the same as we got?
on my VF500 I also had that I did hear a sharp snap when the fork bottomed, or almost, reason was the turn signal holder was slightly bent and did hit the fork tube at sertan steering angle as it compressed
Thanks Jeff, good info, and cleared up a few things. Primarily that the forks I was sold as off an '84 are actually '85-6, which are different in design at the 'oil lock piece' implementation.
I had a very similar bahaviour on my VFkR when I underfilled the fork with oil. Are you sure that is not the case? Height measurement should be with no spring, and compressed.
I had a very similar bahaviour on my VFkR when I underfilled the fork with oil. Are you sure that is not the case? Height measurement should be with no spring, and compressed.
Well, I stripped the forks again to get a better idea of what I have, and what I should have. Turns out, with some detective work from Jeff (thx113), I have a pair of '85 forks, and the internals are different from what I was expecting.
The left leg has NO oil lock piece fitted, but should have.
The right has a simple 'sleeve' lock piece (of which I now have 2). The pic actually has it installed reversed, but I corrected that.
There are no pieces left lodged in the sleeves that wouldn't come out (thanks to my endoscope for some shitty pictures!)
At the end of the re-fit, both legs compress to different heights (!)
I'm just about ready to throw in the towel and ebay another pair of forks :-(
Thanks Captain. This looks like the part I ordered from DSS (above). Just to be sure, I ordered it from your Babbits link, but they want 179-fucking dollars to ship it to Oz!
I might grab that ebay item and see if it fits the internals.
Yeah, that's what I thought, but when I ordered with that part number, that's what turned up? #5 on the fiche from what I can tell is installed, and is numbered (4) in the manual pic above?
These the parts I took from my (VF500F2) left (TRAC) damper rod to visualize:
[image: IMAG4005.jpg]
The (open) rings left and right in the picture fall in the grooves on the rod, holding the spring and rings in place
[image: IMAG3970.jpg]
The "oil lock" piece in the black and white picture stayed on my fork lower as well. It has a threaded hole in the middle (to hold the bolt goes goes in underneath) and 4 "flow holes". I donot know ofcourse how many the VF1000 should have (I guess 4 as well)
For the VF this is part# 38
[image: Capture.JPG]
There is only such a piece in the left (TRAC) fork.
The right (non TRAC) fork does not have the piece, but a simple cylinder sleeve (with a simple hole) that slides over the end of the damper rod that bolts into the fork lower.
Alternatively, send a PM to The Dutchy here on VFRD....
Check CMSNL.com on their parts availability and shipping charges.
If insane, I can pick these parts up and put them in a plain envelope, they appear small enough not to require shipment in a box. :-)
and if it does, a box till 2kg costs Euro 18 to ship down under (no tracktrace) or Euro 25 euro tracktrace+insurance.
Each fork has a oil lock piece. You have one in your picture (and from what I can tell the correct one for that fork leg), now you need "#6" in the manual picture.
Each fork has a oil lock piece. You have one in your picture (and from what I can tell the correct one for that fork leg), now you need "#6" in the manual picture.
I must be confused too...
Yeah, that's what I figured too. The missing piece of my puzzle is #6 in the manual, but it doesn't appear on the '85-6 fiche anywhere. It was fitted to the '84 model, but the forks were revised after that.
I've fitted the new part to the other fork, and filled both with 15W oil. Haven't had a chance to test it yet. Any ideas why the two legs compress different amounts?
These the parts I took from my (VF500F2) left (TRAC) damper rod to visualize:
The (open) rings left and right in the picture fall in the grooves on the rod, holding the spring and rings in plac
The "oil lock" piece in the black and white picture stayed on my fork lower as well. It has a threaded hole in the middle (to hold the bolt goes goes in underneath) and 4 "flow holes". I donot know ofcourse how many the VF1000 should have (I guess 4 as well)
For the VF this is part# 38
There is only such a piece in the left (TRAC) fork.
The right (non TRAC) fork does not have the piece, but a simple cylinder sleeve (with a simple hole) that slides over the end of the damper rod that bolts into the fork lower.
Alternatively, send a PM to The Dutchy here on VFRD....
Check CMSNL.com on their parts availability and shipping charges.
If insane, I can pick these parts up and put them in a plain envelope, they appear small enough not to require shipment in a box. :-)
and if it does, a box till 2kg costs Euro 18 to ship down under (no tracktrace) or Euro 25 euro tracktrace+insurance.
Thanks Dutchy. That is what I was expecting to find as well (same as my vf750), but apparently the '85-6 1000R forks were changed, and that part was not used.
Yeah, that's what I figured too. The missing piece of my puzzle is #6 in the manual, but it doesn't appear on the '85-6 fiche anywhere. It was fitted to the '84 model, but the forks were revised after that.
I've fitted the new part to the other fork, and filled both with 15W oil. Haven't had a chance to test it yet. Any ideas why the two legs compress different amounts?
thanks for taking the time to help
cheers
ian
I disagree. I see it in the link I posted.
#20
#5 is the one you have and you have it installed on the correct fork.
Yeah, that's what I figured too. The missing piece of my puzzle is #6 in the manual, but it doesn't appear on the '85-6 fiche anywhere. It was fitted to the '84 model, but the forks were revised after that.
I've fitted the new part to the other fork, and filled both with 15W oil. Haven't had a chance to test it yet. Any ideas why the two legs compress different amounts?
thanks for taking the time to help
cheers
ian
What do you mean by compress by different amounts? The extended length, or the compressed length? The fully compressed length would be where the end of the fork tube touches down at the bottom of the slider; the oil lock piece should mostly slide into the end of the fork tube at this point (unless you put it in upside down).
For the extended length, that is determined by contact between the top out spring and the bottom of the fork tube, and the underside of the damper rod seal area.
What do you mean by compress by different amounts? The extended length, or the compressed length? The fully compressed length would be where the end of the fork tube touches down at the bottom of the slider; the oil lock piece should mostly slide into the end of the fork tube at this point (unless you put it in upside down).
For the extended length, that is determined by contact between the top out spring and the bottom of the fork tube, and the underside of the damper rod seal area.
I discovered this when I was putting the oil in, without springs, and forks pushed all the way up. There's a pic above that show the sliders at different heights. The right leg is close to the lower triple, but the left is about twice that distance away.
Maybe they have the numbers swapped. I worked at a dealer, and found errors like that on the parts fische. Front and rear turn signal stays on a VF500F were backwards. There were a few people that ordered the front (they are the shortest on any VF) and got the super long rears. Took me a couple times to figure it out.
I did investigate that as well. I ordered that part from DSS, and this is what they sent:
Clearly not the part #6 in the manual pic :-(
The oil lock piece is upside down.
On the earlier photo of the other side the valving arrangement was upside down as well. the washer with the L shaped cross section has to go at the bottom facing up.
On the earlier photo of the other side the valving arrangement was upside down as well. the washer with the L shaped cross section has to go at the bottom facing up.
Check my crappy diagram I sent you.
Yep. I think it may be as simple as that. I checked you excellent diagram, and my lock piece is indeed upside down. I've reversed it now, and it's looking a whole lot better. The compressed length now appears to match the left, so I'm hopeful all is well. Won't get to ride it for a couple of days unfortunately :-(
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I think I've fried my brain, and I hope it's a long long time before I see the inside of these forks again ;-)
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I think I've fried my brain, and I hope it's a long long time before I see the inside of these forks again ;-)
Ja, try to leave it at least a couple of weeks.
End of thread · 59 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 6 Jul 2017
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