Here is the link...I think I have gotten about as good at shifting as I am gonna get and my bike still clunks too much for me. I have to accelerate fast with a perfect blip to the throttle to have no clunk. Slow driving is a clunk nightmare. I feel as though I am driving an old truck with a three on the tree tranny.
Otherwise I absolutely love my bike but this is just irritating.
The shift kit is one of the best mods I've done. And maybe the best if you consider cost. Requires a bit more effort but you're rewarded with very precise shifts. Makes the bike much more enjoyable
Is the 2-3 hours install the site claims accurate? Are there any parts that will jump out when I unbutton it? I always worry about a washer or spring or something popping out as I remove a cover or something and me not being able to see where it went.
last question
did you guys add a slip clutch at the same time? I am really not liking the excessive engine braking on this thing as well. I am getting used to it but I have had the tire slide out a bit when I was trying to catch a light and make a left hand turn and was a little late getting on the throttle. Back tire slid sideways about 8 inches on me before it caught and straightened out.
Is the 2-3 hours install the site claims accurate? Are there any parts that will jump out when I unbutton it? I always worry about a washer or spring or something popping out as I remove a cover or something and me not being able to see where it went.
last question
did you guys add a slip clutch at the same time? I am really not liking the excessive engine braking on this thing as well. I am getting used to it but I have had the tire slide out a bit when I was trying to catch a light and make a left hand turn and was a little late getting on the throttle. Back tire slid sideways about 8 inches on me before it caught and straightened out.
thanks
Joel.
I was doing other work so I don't remember how long this particular install took... I agree with others, it was definitely worth it! Not hard, just be patient and careful. I actually bought two and have the other sitting in a box on my work bench waiting to go into my project bike. Factory Pro shifter and the clutch are on opposite sides of the engine so its not like a "while you in there change the clutch" kinda job... if you find a slipper clutch for a VFR let me know :goofy:
if you find a slipper clutch for a VFR let me know
Someone make one, but i think i remember it was close to $1000, and a PIA to set up just right.
5 hours ago, exwifeschewtoy
Is the 2-3 hours install the site claims accurate? Are there any parts that will jump out when I unbutton it? I always worry about a washer or spring or something popping out as I remove a cover or something and me not being able to see where it went.
last question
did you guys add a slip clutch at the same time? I am really not liking the excessive engine braking on this thing as well. I am getting used to it but I have had the tire slide out a bit when I was trying to catch a light and make a left hand turn and was a little late getting on the throttle. Back tire slid sideways about 8 inches on me before it caught and straightened out.
thanks
Joel.
Or you can blip the throttle to match the rpm's needed.
There doesn't seem to be much difference on the shift star except a bit less peak on the ends.
I wonder if you can do the same by grinding a bit off the original one.
I must say my 5G has no problems shifting, and it's actually a lot better than most other bikes I have ridden, except for some of the top notch latest weapons.
Any bike can be clunky if you shift crap, but can be smooth if your timing is right.
I cam mostly shift without clutch after second without anything but a click as it goes in.
. if you find a slipper clutch for a VFR let me know :goofy:
Hey Rush, Sigma in the UK make these 🙂 Been around for ages, as per Gig's note they are about $1000 (£650 here) last time I looked. They are fairly simple to setup.
There doesn't seem to be much difference on the shift star except a bit less peak on the ends.
I wonder if you can do the same by grinding a bit off the original one.
I must say my 5G has no problems shifting, and it's actually a lot better than most other bikes I have ridden, except for some of the top notch latest weapons.
Any bike can be clunky if you shift crap, but can be smooth if your timing is right.
I cam mostly shift without clutch after second without anything but a click as it goes in.
I'd have to agree with this, my '99 shifts fine with no false neutrals or hard shifting. Clutch is really not needed most of
the time, although I do use it most of the time, but it's pretty much an option.
I think proper shifting is the key. I think the main problem with the OP is not matching engine speed to gear and road speed
when letting out the clutch. Especially if he's dropping more than one gear before letting out the clutch. Matching engine
speed when dropping more than a couple gears can be hard to do without lots of miles and shifts. Also letting the clutch out
too slowly will cause issues with proper speed matching. IMO it just takes lots of practice. But I did ride lots of years when
a person used the engine braking because brakes were pretty shite. So I have gotten used to doing it.
Honestly IMO, if you're not racing or riding really hard a slipper clutch is a crutch that masks poor technique. JMO of course.
I'd have to agree with this, my '99 shifts fine with no false neutrals or hard shifting. Clutch is really not needed most of
the time, although I do use it most of the time, but it's pretty much an option.
I think proper shifting is the key. I think the main problem with the OP is not matching engine speed to gear and road speed
when letting out the clutch. Especially if he's dropping more than one gear before letting out the clutch. Matching engine
speed when dropping more than a couple gears can be hard to do without lots of miles and shifts. Also letting the clutch out
too slowly will cause issues with proper speed matching. IMO it just takes lots of practice. But I did ride lots of years when
a person used the engine braking because brakes were pretty shite. So I have gotten used to doing it.
Honestly IMO, if you're not racing or riding really hard a slipper clutch is a crutch that masks poor technique. JMO of course.
Yes, I do have luck shifting at slow speeds occasionally but it is only about 10% of the time. I can shift much easier if I am accelerating fast. I am borderline driving like an a--hole though which is not ideal.
Is there any tips that will help with shifting at low rpm's and not being "clunky"?
thanks
Joel
I would really like to be able to drive slow and enjoy myself. I would be embarrassed to have a rider on the back with me clunking all over town. lol.
What I don't understand is, if it is shifting technique then why does my bike clunk hard when I shift into first at a stop light? It clunks and rocks forward an inch or so.
Could this be a warped steel plate in the clutch?
I would rather replace the clutch then add a shift kit because i don't think something is right here and I want to fix something that's wrong instead of adding new stuff.
There doesn't seem to be much difference on the shift star except a bit less peak on the ends.
I wonder if you can do the same by grinding a bit off the original one.
I must say my 5G has no problems shifting, and it's actually a lot better than most other bikes I have ridden, except for some of the top notch latest weapons.
Any bike can be clunky if you shift crap, but can be smooth if your timing is right.
I cam mostly shift without clutch after second without anything but a click as it goes in.
I can shift without a clutch on lazy Sunday rides all day no problem... my bike had false neutrals and I felt the shifts on hard acceleration could be improved and the Factiry Pro Shift Kit delivered that improvement. I’m not the original owner so I don’t know if the shifting deficiencies were inherent to the bike or developed over time.
+1 on Oz’s recommendation for clutch maintenance... while you’re there, throw in a shift kit 😉
An abnormally heavy clunk entering first means you clutch is likely dragging, bleed with fresh fluid and clean; also, your plates could be glazed and sticking
Ok, I figured out why I have so much trouble with clunking. User error. I was pulling in the clutch all the way. Now I only pull it in half way. I am also waiting longer to shift. More like at 5k and above. I still suck a little at doing three things at once, but getting better at synching all three body parts in unison to create a better shift. I am now not hearing the clunk over half the time while shifting up from 1st gear. I can live with the clunk in first as I believe it is probably normal at my 7500 miles. It is going to rain here for a few days so I will tear apart the clutch and see if anything is worn, after I see if the dealer has the gasket in stock. I will at least scuff up the plates too and would like to put in EBC or Barnett springs to stiffen up the clutch a bit. Not the 100 pounder's but something in the middle would be fine. I gotta get my back ordered rear sprocket in so I can get this stretched chain off my bike before it gets me killed.
Ok, I figured out why I have so much trouble with clunking. User error. I was pulling in the clutch all the way. Now I only pull it in half way. I am also waiting longer to shift. More like at 5k and above. I still suck a little at doing three things at once, but getting better at synching all three body parts in unison to create a better shift. I am now not hearing the clunk over half the time while shifting up from 1st gear. I can live with the clunk in first as I believe it is probably normal at my 7500 miles. It is going to rain here for a few days so I will tear apart the clutch and see if anything is worn, after I see if the dealer has the gasket in stock. I will at least scuff up the plates too and would like to put in EBC or Barnett springs to stiffen up the clutch a bit. Not the 100 pounder's but something in the middle would be fine. I gotta get my back ordered rear sprocket in so I can get this stretched chain off my bike before it gets me killed.
Hi Joel.
You seem to be going around so many circles, slipper clutch, springs, pro evo, etc, etc. Yet the most fundamental issue to sort out (apart from riding technique) with supposedly "clunky" shifting would be a stuffed or maladjusted chain/sprockets or possibly starter valve synch.
Why not re assess your bike Once you have replaced the chain and sprockets?????? Before diving into the clutch housing. These bike are not known for their "clunky" transmission, quite the opposite. Only My Thoughts.
Ok, I figured out why I have so much trouble with clunking. User error. I was pulling in the clutch all the way. Now I only pull it in half way. I am also waiting longer to shift. More like at 5k and above. I still suck a little at doing three things at once, but getting better at synching all three body parts in unison to create a better shift. I am now not hearing the clunk over half the time while shifting up from 1st gear. I can live with the clunk in first as I believe it is probably normal at my 7500 miles. It is going to rain here for a few days so I will tear apart the clutch and see if anything is worn, after I see if the dealer has the gasket in stock. I will at least scuff up the plates too and would like to put in EBC or Barnett springs to stiffen up the clutch a bit. Not the 100 pounder's but something in the middle would be fine. I gotta get my back ordered rear sprocket in so I can get this stretched chain off my bike before it gets me killed.
Dude, if you have 7500 miles on the bike I doubt there is anything wrong with your clutch... leave it alone to you figure the other stuff out.
Have you been trying to do wheelies? High rpm launches? Quarter mile runs?
I am not working right now and I like to work on the bike. I don't see the harm in opening up the clutch and seeing what I find. I have a caliper to measure and compare with the clutch specs in the manual. I will do the chain and sprockets first as it is a safety issue, and may explain some of the sounds. I did the front brakes and bled the interlinked system , which is good because the fluid in some of the lines was as dark as Pepsi. Even with messing with my bike a lot I still manage to ride a couple of hours per day.
Hope I didn't sound harsh, wasn't meant that way. Sometimes you can try too hard to make everything perfect. 🙂
No I didn't take it that way. I get a little OCD when I get into things. I am using this bike to heal myself after a brutal divorce so I gotta keep working on it or I am left to my nasty thoughts. I really needed this bike.
I've got a Sigma slipper clutch in mine, as well as the shift kit and both are great.
I do not believe either are going to help with the clunky shift.
Oil is the main culprit to this.
If it hold on to the clutch plates then the gear change is going to clunk.
Try different oils until you find one that doesn't do it so bad.
Down here I'm using Penrite 10W-40 Synthetic PAO Ester and so far that is the best I've found.
Actually I can't afford a slipper clutch. The idea sounded real nice about it controlling the engine braking better but I got major sticker shock when I found they were over a grand. I am not going to do the shift star either. I can live with the clunk. It doesn't sound like it is hurting the bike which was my main concern. I am going to open the clutch to take a look see. Never know the previous owner may have scorched the plates up. Chances are it is fine but if it needs something no big deal. Like I said, I like to tinker. I don't give you guys crap for trying to make this big pig of a bike lighter and lighter. Which to me is funny. I mean to me, those guys should have just bought a cbr1000rr and put risers on it.....if they wanted a light touring bike. It is only costing me $17 bucks for a gasket to open it up and take a peek. Not worth razzing me about.
I replaced the clutch plates at approx 95000km because I was finding them to be grabby making a smooth take-off and gear change less perfessional-sounding than I liked. I'm very happy with the result, although I'm sure from a friction standpoint the clutch plates had plenty of life left in them.
I fitted a shift star kit when I first got the VFR as coming from a Suzuki I found the gearbox pretty agricultural. I was really happy with the result and the VFR is a very sweet-shifting bike now.
Agree with boOZZIE the Penrite 5w-40 MC4-ST is an excellent full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil (assume you can get it in the States?). Its something you could try after replacing chain and sprockets if that doesn't cure your "clunking" issues.
I did the front brakes and bled the interlinked system , which is good because the fluid in some of the lines was as dark as Pepsi. Even with messing with my bike a lot I still manage to ride a couple of hours per day.
Joel
Assume you also cleaned the clutch Master Cylinder and bled the clutch system?
Assume you also cleaned the clutch Master Cylinder and bled the clutch system?
yes, I cleaned it and bleed it until It was clear and then pumped the handle until all the microscopic bubbles stopped appearing. Topped it off and then replaced the stripped screws on the lid with steel screws.
thanks
Joel
I am not gonna spend $75 on oil though. Unless it can dance.
Yeah, actually I don't even want to talk about oil anymore on this site. It brings out the ugly in people. I am sure that I will get better shifting in time. I am consciously thinking about shifting now so when I have ridden enough to do it without thinking It will probably be fine.
yes, I cleaned it and bleed it until It was clear and then pumped the handle until all the microscopic bubbles stopped appearing. Topped it off and then replaced the stripped screws on the lid with steel screws.
thanks
Joel
I am not gonna spend $75 on oil though. Unless it can dance.
Excellent. Good luck with the chain and sprocket replacement, I'm sure that will make a big difference. Let's know how it goes.
Actually I can't afford a slipper clutch. The idea sounded real nice about it controlling the engine braking better but I got major sticker shock when I found they were over a grand. I am not going to do the shift star either. I can live with the clunk. It doesn't sound like it is hurting the bike which was my main concern. I am going to open the clutch to take a look see. Never know the previous owner may have scorched the plates up. Chances are it is fine but if it needs something no big deal. Like I said, I like to tinker. I don't give you guys crap for trying to make this big pig of a bike lighter and lighter. Which to me is funny. I mean to me, those guys should have just bought a cbr1000rr and put risers on it.....if they wanted a light touring bike. It is only costing me $17 bucks for a gasket to open it up and take a peek. Not worth razzing me about.
thanks
Joel
No one is razzing you my friend... we are just trying to help.
I totally get wrenching as therapy... it works for me too.
Regarding the clunk into 1st gear, I find if I rock the bike forward a bit, really just a few inches, and then click it into 1st, the clunking is reduced.
I read somewhere that its the stacked design of a motorcycle transmission that is responsible for this (?), but I'm no engineer and I never read up on it more to understand what causes this.
As for shifting, even at low speeds, think of it more as an art than a science. Its not Step 1: Let off gas, Step 2: pull clutch lever, Step 3: shift gear.
There is overlap in all 3 steps.
Its more about finding and knowing the sweet spot for your shift points depending on the speed, engine speed, etc.
Eventually you get to the point where you can feel the engine and tranny speeds matching and you just know thats the smoothest shift point.
You've heard guys on here talking about clutchless up-shifts. Its all about finding that sweet spot.
I remember as a kid I broke the clutch lever bracket on my dirt bike, but was able to ride the rest of the day, clutchless up-shifts and down-shifts. The downshifts can be downright brutal at times, second only to starts going from Neutral to 1st with no clutch.
The first gear clunk is due to the clutch inner and outer spinning together when the bike is in neutral. When you engage first at a standstill, the clutch inner stops spinning as the gear is engaged (the clutch outer is permanently geared to the crankshaft so always spins), so that will produce some driveline shock. If the engine is cold the clutch plates are all stuck together with a cold film of oil and so the clunk is more pronounced when cold than when the oil is hot.
Regarding the clunk into 1st gear, I find if I rock the bike forward a bit, really just a few inches, and then click it into 1st, the clunking is reduced.
I read somewhere that its the stacked design of a motorcycle transmission that is responsible for this (?), but I'm no engineer and I never read up on it more to understand what causes this.
As for shifting, even at low speeds, think of it more as an art than a science. Its not Step 1: Let off gas, Step 2: pull clutch lever, Step 3: shift gear.
There is overlap in all 3 steps.
Its more about finding and knowing the sweet spot for your shift points depending on the speed, engine speed, etc.
Eventually you get to the point where you can feel the engine and tranny speeds matching and you just know thats the smoothest shift point.
You've heard guys on here talking about clutchless up-shifts. Its all about finding that sweet spot.
I remember as a kid I broke the clutch lever bracket on my dirt bike, but was able to ride the rest of the day, clutchless up-shifts and down-shifts. The downshifts can be downright brutal at times, second only to starts going from Neutral to 1st with no clutch.
Good luck,
Paul in SoCal
I put on MDZ chinese blue colored shorty adjustable levers yesterday. I know my bike is red.....I like the contrast. I set the clutch lever closer to the bars so I can prevent myself from pulling past the friction zone. So when I shift I roll off the throttle about 1/4-1/2 inch, depending on engine rpm's, at the same time I am pulling in the clutch most of the way, while I am lightly touching the shifter with my toes. When the clutch is in and the throttle rolled off, I firmly click my toes up and roll on the throttle while I release the clutch. The faster I am going the faster I twitch the throttle and release the clutch. I suck at doing it at low rpm's right now so that is what I am going to do. Go out and practice riding around town shifting before 4k rpm's. I am guessing I will need to be slower on the throttle roll and slower on the clutch release to have smoother shifting at those decreased speeds. I am well aware that I am going into a clunking nightmare until I get better at it so I won't get discouraged.
If I am off in my thinking please set me straight as I don't want to keep practicing something that is wrong.
"pulling past the friction zone"? What does that mean? I have my clutch set so it is fully engaged as far from the handlebars
as possible. The more lever travel, the more clutch plate travel, the more the clutch plates will free up, and lead to clunkless
shifts.
For just toodling around shift it just like your car: back off the throttle, pull the clutch, shift to the next gear, match engine revs,
and let the clutch out at a good speed to limit slippage. Practice makes perfect, or at least less crappy. 🙂
I may not be using the correct terminology. I mean after the clutch is fully engaged, my understanding was that the rest of the lever pull was dead space..... The stock lever is pretty far from the bars, My clutch is fully engaged half that distance. I was originally pulling in the clutch all or most of the way which was making it harder for me to synch my throttle with. Now I set my new levers so that my clutch can't travel as far. My clutch is fully engaged with my clutch about an inch, inch and a half from the bars. It is helping my timing of shifting. I thought that was an ideal set up especially for my tendency to pull in the lever too far.....am I wrong?
If in neutral stopped at a light, before kicking into 1st, blip the throttle, as the reeves are coming back down slip it into 1st. i do this out of habit, i guess because it works. it will also help with downshifts and the slipper clutch need. You can blip the throttle to match the revs of your downshift.
If in neutral stopped at a light, before kicking into 1st, blip the throttle, as the reeves are coming back down slip it into 1st. i do this out of habit, i guess because it works. it will also help with downshifts and the slipper clutch need. You can blip the throttle to match the revs of your downshift.
Are you sure you're not an ex-Harley rider, with that blipping the throttle thing. 🙂 If I pull in the clutch, I sit at the light in neutral usually yeah I know bad boy,
for about 5 seconds or a little less the bike will slip right into gear with no clunking or noise of any kind. The clutch should free up enough to allow the bike
to be put into gear with no noise, if it's warmed up.
Regarding shifting into first at a stop: I find if I wait to shift down to first gear as I approch an anticipated stop until about 2 - 4 mph I get into first gear without a clunk.
(That technique will require holding the clutch lever in while you wait to get moving again; this is a technique taught in MSF rider training courses so that you can move right away if some is approching from behind and threatening to rear-end you.)
Are you sure you're not an ex-Harley rider, with that blipping the throttle thing. 🙂 If I pull in the clutch, I sit at the light in neutral usually yeah I know bad boy,
for about 5 seconds or a little less the bike will slip right into gear with no clunking or noise of any kind. The clutch should free up enough to allow the bike
to be put into gear with no noise, if it's warmed up.
Lol. You most likely coast through corners at idle. or maybe you back it in like Marquez. If I'm downshifting, and want to be in a good gear to exit a corner with some RPM, i have to blip the throttle.
I think i do it from neutral because it helps to slip it into first, but maybe a bad boy habit. I'm curious to test it now, and will let you know.
End of thread · 50 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 20 Nov 2018