Still no news on it, which is wonderful. Guess I won't be going anywhere this weekend lol....
VFR1200F DCT 2013 won't go in gear
39 posts Started 29 Apr 2021 Last recovered post 16 Aug 2021 Wayback Machine snapshot 17 Sep 2021
Just been told they need to replace the "control unit", and quoted £2,300 for the *part* with no guarantee of a fix.
Just a thought ... have you tried a general auto gearbox company?
I just found this company and the first item in the list of Honda faults is - won’t go into gear
If nothing else they may have a contact
The dealer say the gearbox itself is fine, which to be fair is supported by the fact that when I eventually get it in D, it will ride normally and go up and down through gears as expected.
It's the ECU throwing spurious faults and refusing to go into gear that is the issue. 😞
I've phoned around a couple of places and gotten similar "yeah that sounds about right we've known other Honda DCT bikes do this". I'm going to try to press Honda themselves on it as to me this isn't really an acceptable amount of time for an ECU to last.
I have tried asking the wife if I can buy this to replace it, but she says no:
https://www.kawasaki.co.uk/en/products/Sport_Tourer/2020/Ninja_H2_SX_SE__Performance_Tourer
The annoying thing, now that I think about it, is that they wouldn't commit to a new ECU definitely fixing the issue, so potentially I pay £2300 and am no further forward.
Which also means I'm not quite sure what I'm paying them for if they haven't actually diagnosed the fault, and instead are just offering me guesses.
I might just demand the bike back because this is a fucking joke.
Figure out the part number and try to locate a used one. Also, I would inform them you will not pay for parts that don't fix your bike, as your complaint was not that you need a bunch of new parts, but that it won't go into gear.
I lost complete faith in car and bike dealerships decades ago...
1 hour ago, RC1237VFigure out the part number and try to locate a used one. Also, I would inform them you will not pay for parts that don't fix your bike, as your complaint was not that you need a bunch of new parts, but that it won't go into gear.
I lost complete faith in car and bike dealerships decades ago...
The issue with a 2nd hand one is that it seems quite hard to find one from a >2012 DCT bike, and because it encompasses the immobilizer I'm not sure how complex it is to just swap.
But yeah, right now I can either scrap the bikes or pay £2300 and maybe still scrap the bike. I would be better off if it had been stolen.
Just spoke to Honda UK who are completely uninterested and unhelpful, and seem to think that the dealerships are nothing to do with them and not their problem as "they are independant!!"
18 hours ago, RC1237VAlso, I would inform them you will not pay for parts that don't fix your bike, as your complaint was not that you need a bunch of new parts, but that it won't go into gear.
🤣 I like this line.
rtho782, 5/4/2021 at 11:49 AMJust been told they need to replace the "control unit", and quoted £2,300 for the *part* with no guarantee of a fix.
I do not think they know what they are doing. See if you can find reputable shop with DTC specific experience
Hm, I have a diagnosis from the dealer which has convinced me moreso that it is indeed the ECU. Still annoying, obviously.
I'm in liaison with the original purchasing dealer about it, as I don't think it's reasonable to expect a 2nd hand bike of this age and price to die so thoroughly so quickly, and as the ECU isn't a maintenance item and is designed to last.... many years, it has to be due to some sort of manufacturing defect.
I'll let you know how it goes!!
Thumbs, 5/5/2021 at 12:19 PMHow about these people to test the ECU and maybe repair it
http://ecumeistro.com/motorcycle-ecu/
or
Good idea, but the 2nd UK based one doesn't do motorbike ECUs and the other is in Australia!!
I can't seem to find a motorbike equivalent in the UK.
Sorry about that .... these people are in the UK
Thumbs, 5/7/2021 at 1:04 PMSorry about that .... these people are in the UK
Thanks,
I spoke to these guys who said they can't help, but they suggested I contact some people in the Netherlands who they think might be able to.
I have done that, waiting on responses.
Also trying to push the selling dealership and the credit card company on it.
Hopefully this turns out well for you. I just went through a boomer like that on my truck. While traveling I was forced to pay through my nose for obscure emission system repair, just because oem set us owners in a tap. What a times.
So the bike was yesterday collected from Honda, and is going back to the selling dealership, who after much pushing are going to repair the fault at no cost to me. I'm only out the diagnostics cost, so all in all this tentatively seems like a result!
Will post back when it's fixed...
Good news.
Good news indeed.
Bike should finally be being returned to me next week (this has been over 2 months now!!)
I have a suspicion as the dealer have had to cut new keys (supposedly to match the old ones) rather than coding the old keys to the new ECU, that they have replaced the ECU with one they have pulled from another bike or something. While I don't really mind if this is the case, how would I be able to confirm that TCS etc is working? (e.g., it could be a pre-2012 ECU)
2 hours ago, rtho782Bike should finally be being returned to me next week (this has been over 2 months now!!)
I have a suspicion as the dealer have had to cut new keys (supposedly to match the old ones) rather than coding the old keys to the new ECU, that they have replaced the ECU with one they have pulled from another bike or something. While I don't really mind if this is the case, how would I be able to confirm that TCS etc is working? (e.g., it could be a pre-2012 ECU)
If they have fitted a new ECM then they can't use your old keys. New keys must be registered to the ECM then cut to match the ignition switch.
Can't believe they would not go to the trouble of fitting an exact ECM replacement! Everything should work normally.
Bike was finally returned to me this morning, after 8 weeks.
The same fault is present.
Some of the plastics are missing.
The crash bungs are on backwards.
None of the plastics are fitted correctly, some of the clips are broken.
Looks like it's time to go to court.
A Honda dealer or independant?
Photograph/video everything!
🤬
Bloody disgraceful, as Skids states and threaten them with legal action. Might be worth seeking professional legal advice.
Honda customer service should also be made fully aware of your situation and seeking their support.
Sorry to hear of their gross incompetence after 8 weeks of waiting. They shouldn't be in business after what you've experienced.
2 hours ago, SkidsA Honda dealer or independant?
Photograph/video everything!
🤬
So, I bought it from Superbike Factory Ltd in Macclesfield. https://superbikefactory.co.uk/
It broke down on 23rd April.
It went to Honda in Bury for fault diagnosis, they said it needed a new ECU.
SBF initially offered £250 compensation, I rejected this and threatened court action.
On the day of me submitting court action, literally while I was filling in the forms, SBF then offered to collect the bike and repair it. They collected it on 1st June.
They took ages about repairing, and returned it to me today, just over 8 weeks later, and over 3 months since it broke. They say they have replaced the ECU, but then, they also said they PDI'd it and test rode it, which must be a lie because the bike doesn't go into gear and there are literally panels missing, panels not fitted correctly, and the crash bungs are back to front.
I'd be tempted to ask for a full refund and go look for another one. ☹️
Photograph and video everything then put it away …. then contact the AA vehicle inspection team and book an appointment
They'll give you an engineers report to use against the SBF
OR just let SBF that the AA are getting involved and see where that leads
I assume you have trading standards involved?
AA inspection is £142 for basic and £190 for detailed if that helps https://www.theaa.com/vehicle-inspection/
3 hours ago, SkidsI'd be tempted to ask for a full refund and go look for another one. ☹️
That's what I'm now asking for, but obviously I'd lose out on all the money I've spent on upgrades (Seat, suspension, etc)
This is actually starting to put me off motorbikes in general. If this one goes, I won't be getting another one of these. Finding post 2012 DCT bikes is a nightmare anyway/
Nooo! Don’t give up on bikes.
4 hours ago, VFR78Nooo! Don’t give up on bikes.
What he said.
Superbike factory's head of retail was supposed to call me today, of course I have heard nothing.
Submitted the bike details to we buy any bike, as I mean, at this point what else am I supposed to do with it?
Even Honda don't seem to have any ideas on what to change/replace/look at next. Honda UK customer service is useless.
This guy seemed to have a similar issue, but it was never resolved....
I used to have the same problem with my ctx700 dct. Purchase the bike without working gears. It wouldnt go to D with check engine light+abs light on. After doing self diagnostic with the service manual it leads to fault in the PCM. Took the bike to Honda dealer so they can run their diagnostic tool and confirmed its the PCM fault. I've got tempted to get used PCM from US (100$) despite the different serial number and naturally it didnt work. Then finally got used Euro PCM + HISS + all locks and keys for 450Euro and gears worked first time with all warning lights off. The bike was 3yo with 9000km. I even called Honda Italy where the bike was originally purchased and they told me that they have replaced the PCM already at 5000km under waranty. So as it turns out not reliable peace of engineering.
Doing self diagnostic with the SM can tell you if its the shift control motor, or any of the solenoids, side stand etc.
Oh! Something else I've discovere is that I could still used the non-HISS ECU that I initially bought, what I've only needed to do is to feed 12V to the only empty pin on the plug I didnt notice it at first as they are a lot of wires like 50 or 60. That empty pin 'tells' the ECU that the HISS is 'okay to go' or this way you simply bypass it and wont have HISS anymore but hey its 6 times less expensive ECU.
Troubles with that DCT module made me give up on auto boxes, but its such nice having auto, next bike I bought is a 1200D now with granaded engine. I'm also so close to give up on everything. I need to spend 1/3 of what I've paid for the bike to get used engine, probably only to get faulty PCM later. Its a fantastic bike, but seriously unreliable.
The sidestand point is a very good one. If the stand is down, is DCT reaction function to not go in to gear and leave engine running or will it stop the motor as with manual shift bike?
While DCT is interesting technology and can be appealing, it does introduce added complexity. Its failures surprise me coming from Honda. I've also seen it on their quad side by sides, so is becoming more common.
BTW, so no hope of repairing the original crankshaft?
So, Superbike Factory called me yesterday and were very apologetic (although that doesn't change the fact that they took over 8 weeks to not repair my bike).
The ECU has already been changed, new keys coded, no difference. The sidestand switch was the first thing I looked at and tested myself before it even went to a garage.
The diagnosis attached shows were they got to and pointed the finger to the ECU, but this has not changed anything. It seems next step is to change the shift control motor, P/N 31300-KVZ-631.
It's going back to SBF tomorrow, and hopefully I am getting a loan bike. Will find out for sure tonight what is going on.
diagnosis.pdf
Annnnd they didn't call me tonight as agreed. I suppose it was too much to hope for.
I'm erring towards refund on this now. I honestly give up, and after over 3 months it's having a significant effect on my mental health.
ECU like all computers are dumb. At mercy of data input; garbage in = garbage out. There are multiple sensors inside gearbox that sends data to ECU. Could be adjustment issue, or something's bent mechanically and not triggering sensors properly.
When troubleshooting no-start conditions on many bikes & autos, I would use dual-channel oscilloscope to look at crank & cam-sensor signals. Independently, they'd look perfect. But taken together, there may be an offset. This would confuse ECU and it refuses to start engine.
Honda has breakout box that can be plugged in-line with ECU to test all terminals. Wouldn't be too hard to check state of ALL sensors simultaneously too see if one of them went rogue.
There really may be mechanical issue at bottom of this.
The bike came back today.
Complete contrast from last time, the bike is gleaming, the brakes feel like they have just been serviced, the handbrake actually works (never bothered using it before anyway lol), and most importantly the bike goes into gear and, you know, rides!!
SBF even replaced the battery, which I wouldn't have expected them to do (I was aware it was on it's way out, it had been sat for 4m after all).
I think in the end it was the servo that puts it into gear (which had been tested by Honda but, who knows what happened) 31300-KVZ-631 that fixed it.
This whole process has been an emotional journey, but, we've reached the end and I finally have a motorbike and nothing else matters :DD
Some good news at last. Good luck and hope it's the last issue you ever have with the bike and that dealership.
Enjoy your ride. :fing02:
Excellent news.
Now go out and ride the nuts off it.
End of thread · 39 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 17 Sep 2021