My catless 99 pipes have finally arrived after waiting an extra few weeks for the two connector pipes. I am planning to send them off to be jet-coated soon. Should I remove any surface rust before sending them out, or is this something they will do before applying the coating?
I have done the full exhaust gut and am planning to remove the pair valves in the next few weeks, both of which, along with removing the cat, will cause the bike to run lean. I did get a modified Turbo City Tom FPR and plan to install it soon as well.
My main question is rather or not there is any chance the modified FPR will compensate for the lean condition for the above mods, or if I should just go ahead and pick up a PC3? If there is anyone out there with a VTEC map for the catless exhaust please PM me so I can purchase a copy from you.
I'm awfully tempted to pick up those headers too.. do they really fit perfectly?
I would think a PC3 would be an absolute must, you're doing decently serious modifications..
Also... has anyone priced it out, is the 99 catless exhaust cheaper then the stock exhaust for the VFR? I can't see any reason not to go catless if it's cheaper and legal.
The stock VTEC map is a bit lean for fuel efficiency and emissions. If you are going catless you will definately need a PCIII and 02 Elims or you will be running like whipped dogshit.
Hey Dyno your bike now and then again when you get done and let us know the improvement.
We should have a list of guys who have custom maps with what they have for mods. Then, we could buy it from them to help them out with the initial cost. Miguel? Could it be possible?
I would try running the modified FPR before spending the money on the PCIII and such and even have it dynoed that way to find out if it's lean or not. warranty.gif
Very Fast Ride, Jan 18 2006, 12:49 PMBTW there is a set of predators on ebay right now http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...=ADME:B:SS:CA:1 I found a set of used one for $200cdn. I will dyno my bike before I put them on, but it won't happen before April or May.
Where did you find a set of used predator headers for $200 Canadian? They are over $700 USD new!
BenSV- the 98-99 OEM headers are pretty tough to find anywhere, aftermarket one's are even tougher. Right now mine are just a a dusty, but straight, old set of OEM 99 pipes.
ProMed, Jan 18 2006, 02:52 PMWhere did you find a set of used predator headers for $200 Canadian? They are over $700 USD new!
BenSV- the 98-99 OEM headers are pretty tough to find anywhere, aftermarket one's are even tougher. Right now mine are just a a dusty, but straight, old set of OEM 99 pipes.
Sorry, that's what happen when you're in rush. 2 diffrent things. I saw a set of predator on ebay(was at the time $170 + shipping) and I bought a set of used OEM 99 headers for $200cdn. Don't know the shape they're in yet; I'll pick them up on Friday.
Well it looks like anyone doing this mod is going to be investing a lot of time and money to get it right. Is there really that much of a difference in performance without the cat on the 2000+ VFR's that would make it worthwhile? I haven't seen any dyno numbers on this conversion so I take it that the few who did this must not have seen a difference that was worth writing home about. I think it's more about stickin' it to the man and getting rid of that pescky catalytic converter than anything else.
That said, I'm also in the camp that would love to "stick it to the man!" fing02.gif I'd like the marginal performance boost and the corresponding better sound just like everyone else. So I got some numbers on what it could cost. [These have all been converted to USD prices.]
OEM '99 5th Gen. Pipes (Used) ..... $175 OEM '99 5th Gen. Pipes (New) ..... $400 Predator 5th Gen. Pipes (New) ..... $605 Predator 6th Gen. Pipes (New) ..... $675
It's obviously substantially cheaper to get these used. On the other hand, many early 5th Gens have a lot of miles on there exhaust so finding one in great condition is that much harder. The quotes above were taken from Very Fast Ride, Ron Ayer's [www.ronayers.com], and Predator's Store Website [www.predatorexhausts.com] with the 10% off special that they're offerring right now. Don't expect shipping to be cheap though.
I also wanted to point out that there seems to be a little bit of difference in how the pipes are bent for the front two cylinders of the engine for the different generations. I have include microfiche pics from Ayer's site to show what i mean. This leads me to believe that there might be a little more coaxing to get these in place correctly than anyone has mentioned before.
[image: user posted image] Microfiche - VFR Exhaust (5th Gen)
[image: user posted image] Microfiche - VFR Exhaust (6th Gen)
Do you notice that the 5th gen siameses 1&2 and 3&4 whereas the 6th gen joins 1&3 and 2&4 before the cat? I have a 5th gen with cat & it joins 1&2 and 3&4 before the cat; the same as the 5th gen without cat. Joining 1&2 plus 3&4 keeps the pulses much more even in the pipes as they are both v-twins (180 degrees out of phase). The 6th gen diagonal linking seems very odd to me.
benSV, Jan 21 2006, 08:47 AMWay to K.I.S.S Honda on the 6th gen exhaust!
I gave up looking for a used set of headers, got disgusted with the pricing of new and modified my cat by gutting it while it was still on the bike, I took a grinder with cut off blades and safety gogles and cut the bottom portion off to expose the innerds. I was amazed at how choked up this was. when finihed I formed a piece off sheet metal @ 16 g, and used self tapping screws with high temp silicone to re-seal it, then painted it with high temp black paint---when completed I installed my Two Bros carbon system, wa-la----it works and sounds great. Sorry, no photos.
MetalHedd, Jan 21 2006, 03:17 AMI haven't seen any dyno numbers on this conversion so I take it that the few who did this must not have seen a difference that was worth writing home about.
I take it that we just haven't seen a before and after dyno test with this mod. I would be suprised to find that when Bailey is done with his that he will find 5-10 horsepower from it. That would be a very nice jump on a 99 horsepower bike!
ProMed, Jan 22 2006, 11:07 AMI take it that we just haven't seen a before and after dyno test with this mod. I would be suprised to find that when Bailey is done with his that he will find 5-10 horsepower from it. That would be a very nice jump on a 99 horsepower bike!
I got my set of headers on Friday (minus one down pipe). I won't put it on before I put the bike on the dyno to see the before and after results. The first race in Mission is usually in late April early May, and they have a dyno on location. By the end of May, I SHOULD be able to do a write up.
BTW: I am missing a down pipe from my set. The problem is, which one? Do they both curve inward? if yes, then I know which one is missing.
Man, am I ever sorry I came up with this mod.... idea3.gif
I ran mine with a TFI box but never got the combo dyno'ed. I had to quickly sell the bike and sold my headers to BaileyRoc when I parted out the goodies.
I had to richen up the TFI, it was louder with the same mufflers, and rev'd quicker; all of this indicated to me that the pipes flowed much better.
The rear cylinders upper pipes were different from the vtec. The curves weren't completely the same. My mind is a little foggy on this since it was a few years ago but IIRC, I had to alter the right footpeg cover somewhat to get it to fit.
Before and after Dyno charts won't show much difference without a proper Fuel Map to add/optimize fuel for the better flowing exhaust. The Catless exhaust will most likely flow better that a Cat. equipped exhaust, but this will only worsen the already LEAN condition so without more fuel you will see little gain if any. IMO !
PS. All Cat equiped pipes have the same crossover set-up on the front two down tubes, only the catless 98-99 have the straight back tube set-up. The RonAyers pics are Wrong.
I have done this with a 98 header on a 04 VTEC. had to get a custom map made. Only a couple of horses gained, but the mid range was so improved. No more 4-6K bogging. Touch the throttle and it goes. I have a PC3usb and staintune pipes. If you are into performance, this is a great mod. Any questions pm me. [image: user posted image] Dynorun.JPG
adamf18, Jan 22 2006, 07:14 PMI have done this with a 98 header on a 04 VTEC. had to get a custom map made. Only a couple of horses gained, but the mid range was so improved. No more 4-6K bogging. Touch the throttle and it goes. I have a PC3usb and staintune pipes. If you are into performance, this is a great mod. Any questions pm me. [image: user posted image] Dynorun.JPG
Perfect candidate for an '06 ECU to get rid of that gaping hole in the powerband right before 7k!!!!!
adamf18, Jan 22 2006, 09:14 PMOnly a couple of horses gained, but the mid range was so improved.
Adam,
Do you have a dyno run from before you had the 98 headers? Looks like you gained 3 hp just from tuning; It would be interesting to compare that to the stock headers.
I called a place to check on prices for used 98 -99 headers...they told me $350! unsure.gif
Do you have a dyno run from before you had the 98 headers? Looks like you gained 3 hp just from tuning; It would be interesting to compare that to the stock headers.
I called a place to check on prices for used 98 -99 headers...they told me $350! unsure.gif
Kevin
I emailed some guy who was selling 98 vfr parts on ebay and picked mine up for $50. Lucked out I guess.
Do you have a dyno run from before you had the 98 headers? Looks like you gained 3 hp just from tuning; It would be interesting to compare that to the stock headers.
I called a place to check on prices for used 98 -99 headers...they told me $350! unsure.gif
Kevin
I didn't get a chance to do a before, but I did find out that the Power commander map for the staintunes is very lean. I found mine form a guy on ebay selling 98 vfr parts and emailed him. Picked mine up for $50.
veefer800canuck, Jan 22 2006, 09:24 PMPerfect candidate for an '06 ECU to get rid of that gaping hole in the powerband right before 7k!!!!!
Go Adam! fing02.gif
lurk.gif
That gapping hole is the VTEC kicking in, but with my new map it transcends alot smoother. It would be nice to remap with the 06 ECU and see the difference.
End of thread · 22 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 15 Feb 2006