Potential Re-release of Two Brothers Racing (TBR) 5th Gen Full Exhaust System!!!
I requested information from TBR about the possibility of re-releasing the 5th gen headers. I received a response today from Greg at TBR forwarding information from the CEO...
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 6:37 AM
"We can re-produce the VFR800 headers 1998-2001 with 100 pre-paid orders. The 1998-2001 header has not been tested by us on the 02-09 or the new 2014 model.
Each system will cost $899.98 for CF muffler and $799.98 for Aluminum.
12 weeks for delivery after all orders are complete.
Thanks,
Jeff Whitten Two Brothers Racing, Inc | CEO"
I know 100 orders is a lot, but we have 26 already... As a company they haven't tested the headers on a 6th gen, but we know they work; using these headers on a 6th gen requires a custom mid-pipe that currently the buyer would be responsible for having fabricated. And we have reports of our European friends fitting 5th gen exhausts to the 2014 with zero modifications... I've also requested info on pricing and availability of just the headers instead of the full system
EDIT: TBR response for the headers only: " Header & Midpipe & Hardware set cannot be split. They are $599.98 for that package"
Note: The discharge from the header collector is not in the same location and angle as the stock header, this is a performance exhaust system. If you purchase the header and use your existing slip-on a custom mid-pipe will need to be fabricated.
Gee, I think they are placing the mark pretty high asking for 100 orders.
I understand that they are a "production" shop but I would have thought, if they still have all the jigs and tooling, a run of 20 would have been more in the ball park.
Are they prepared to do just the headers and collector?
I don't need the mid pipe and cans as I'll be keeping my LeoVince fibre cans etc.
Gee, I think they are placing the mark pretty high asking for 100 orders.
I understand that they are a "production" shop but I would have thought, if they still have all the jigs and tooling, a run of 20 would have been more in the ball park.
Are they prepared to do just the headers and collector?
I don't need the mid pipe and cans as I'll be keeping my LeoVince fibre cans etc.
Phil
I've also requested info on pricing and availability of just the headers instead of the full system...
the 100 orders was the CEO's first response. If I was running the place I would love to have $80K of pre-paid orders too... don't know if that number is carved in stone or just an opening figure. I don't know how many systems they make in a production run. If we end up with 20 people interested and willing to commit that's what we'll tell them...
That sounds like their "we don't wanna do it" pricing.
Careful what you wish for with headers only, the outlet is likely to NOT be in the same place as oem, meaning you would need a custom mid pipe to fit your existing can.
Potential Re-release of Two Brothers Racing (TBR) 5th Gen Full Exhaust System!!!
I requested information from TBR about the possibility of re-releasing the 5th gen headers. I received a response today from Greg at TBR forwarding information from the CEO...
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 6:37 AM
"We can re-produce the VFR800 headers 1998-2001 with 100 pre-paid orders. The 1998-2001 header has not been tested by us on the 02-09 or the new 2014 model.
Each system will cost $899.98 for CF muffler and $799.98 for Aluminum.
12 weeks for delivery after all orders are complete.
Thanks,
Jeff Whitten Two Brothers Racing, Inc | CEO"
I know 100 orders is a lot, but I can think of 6 already... As a company they haven't tested the headers on a 6th gen, but we know they work. And we have reports of our European friends fitting 5th gen exhausts to the 2014 with zero modifications... I've also requested info on pricing and availability of just the headers instead of the full system
That sounds like their "we don't wanna do it" pricing.
Careful what you wish for with headers only, the outlet is likely to NOT be in the same place as oem, meaning you would need a custom mid pipe to fit your existing can.
It is definitely not in the same place as OEM, I am running a custom midpipe. It was pretty straightforward.
That sounds like their "we don't wanna do it" pricing.
...
Maybe "I don't want to do it" quantity... but the pricing seems decent for a full system. If you break it down, a TBR slip-on for a 5th gen is $450 - $550 so your getting the headers for about $350 with the full system
I'm onboard for a 6th gen single muffler, black series, with a matched midpipe to the header.
Believe me, I'd love to own a full two bro's set. I just think if we actually wanna make progress to product before say.... NEXT YEAR, lol, maybe zorstec or another fabricator who is prepared to do smaller quantities of product.
That sounds like their "we don't wanna do it" pricing.
Careful what you wish for with headers only, the outlet is likely to NOT be in the same place as oem, meaning you would need a custom mid pipe to fit your existing can.
This. ^^^^^
The delkevics are a stock replacement and will fit the factory end can, and therefore any aftermarket can also.
TBR had their own diameter and placement for the outlet pipe from the header, not quite the same as stock. Angle might be slightly different too.
RRM, Yours is a slip on only, intended to bolt to the factory Honda head pipes.
The original TBR full system was sold as a matched pair, with the mid pipe designed to fit the NON-factory headers, therefore your newer (slip on) mid pipe would not fit the older TBR headers, different outlet orientation on the older headers.
RRM, Yours is a slip on only, intended to bolt to the factory Honda head pipes.
The original TBR full system was sold as a matched pair, with the mid pipe designed to fit the NON-factory headers, therefore your newer (slip on) mid pipe would not fit the older TBR headers, different outlet orientation on the older headers.
DIameter of the header outlet is the same. placement and orientation is way different than OEM, so you're stuck with the TBR midpipe.
That sounds like their "we don't wanna do it" pricing.
Careful what you wish for with headers only, the outlet is likely to NOT be in the same place as oem, meaning you would need a custom mid pipe to fit your existing can.
This. ^^^^^
The delkevics are a stock replacement and will fit the factory end can, and therefore any aftermarket can also.
TBR had their own diameter and placement for the outlet pipe from the header, not quite the same as stock. Angle might be slightly different too.
Stock replacement for stock horse power lol
vfrcapn
Veefer800Canuck
RRM, Yours is a slip on only, intended to bolt to the factory Honda head pipes.
The original TBR full system was sold as a matched pair, with the mid pipe designed to fit the NON-factory headers, therefore your newer (slip on) mid pipe would not fit the older TBR headers, different outlet orientation on the older headers.
DIameter of the header outlet is the same. placement and orientation is way different than OEM, so you're stuck with the TBR midpipe.
If this price is for the stainless system and not the mild steel that they also manufactured then put me down for 4 sets, 1 with alloy can, 1 with carbon can and 2 sets of headers only.
I don't think the price is out of line but the quantity is sure enough a "we don't want the hassle price."
If you get close on the quantity pm and maybe I can convince a partner to help me set some aside for inflation from everyone who will a set when they see them but want to commit or be able to commit the funds now.
If this is for mild steel, count me out.
I am sending my TBR system off to jet hot coating in Charlotte for a complete coat before I powder coat my frame this winter so I have an original that could be used if someone wants to set up a jig and produce this item in stainless (or titanium).
I'm onboard for a 6th gen single muffler, black series, with a matched midpipe to the header.
Believe me, I'd love to own a full two bro's set. I just think if we actually wanna make progress to product before say.... NEXT YEAR, lol, maybe zorstec or another fabricator who is prepared to do smaller quantities of product.
You'll need a custom mid-pipe to do the 6th gen under tail exhaust, like CandyRed's set-up...
I'm not opposed to another manufacturer if the performance and quality is there... the concern I have with Zorstec is the price for the header is about the same as a full system from TBR... (if we can get it made), shipping from the UK will be an additional $$
So we have a lot of views and a couple of interested folks:
1.Rush2112 - Full w/ CF muffler please! 2.JDMBird83 3.HighSideNZ - Headers 4.mspence82 - Headers + (6th gen single muffler, black series, with a matched midpipe to the header) 5.RRM - Headers 6-9.CornerCarver - 4 sets, 1 with alloy can, 1 with carbon can and 2 sets of headers only 10.
Could they do any additions like O2 bungs (at least 2 or possibly 4)? I currently have a 98-99 header on my 2001 and had it ceramic coated. I thought about doing a PCV at one point with the autotune after everything was done, but can't without the bungs. The Rapid Bike deal is going on now too, but without the bungs, it seems like you won't get the full benefit.
It's not a big deal to have bungs welded into your exhaust. Cycle Pro is going to weld mine in when my Rapid Bike Racing Comes in.
As long as it isn't already ceramic coated, or you have to do that whole process again.............and I guess the Two Brothers wouldn't be ceramic coated, so no issues.
RRM, Yours is a slip on only, intended to bolt to the factory Honda head pipes.
The original TBR full system was sold as a matched pair, with the mid pipe designed to fit the NON-factory headers, therefore your newer (slip on) mid pipe would not fit the older TBR headers, different outlet orientation on the older headers.
Bummer...thank you for pointing that out. I really like how it looks (and performs) even with the cat header. It looks like I will have to consider the 98-99 header ceramic coated or a Delkavic or some other header. Cheers, R.
It's not a big deal to have bungs welded into your exhaust. Cycle Pro is going to weld mine in when my Rapid Bike Racing Comes in.
As long as it isn't already ceramic coated, or you have to do that whole process again.............and I guess the Two Brothers wouldn't be ceramic coated, so no issues.
Mine is ceramic coated... Ugh well we'll see how they want to handle it.
RRM, Yours is a slip on only, intended to bolt to the factory Honda head pipes.
The original TBR full system was sold as a matched pair, with the mid pipe designed to fit the NON-factory headers, therefore your newer (slip on) mid pipe would not fit the older TBR headers, different outlet orientation on the older headers.
Bummer...thank you for pointing that out. I really like how it looks (and performs) even with the cat header. It looks like I will have to consider the 98-99 header ceramic coated or a Delkavic or some other header. Cheers, R.
[image: attachicon.gif]VFR1.JPG
[image: attachicon.gif]VFR2.JPG
If you look up a few posts at my video, that is a fifth gen two brothers header fitted to a sixth gen two brothers slip on. It was pretty straight forward. The diameter wad right but the orientation was slightly off. I just cut both the mid pipe and the slip on, towards the header side and reangled them and welded them together.
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Switchblade
Fit the 8th gen ?
I have heard that the fifth and 8th gen exhausts are 100% interchangeable.
RRM, Yours is a slip on only, intended to bolt to the factory Honda head pipes.
The original TBR full system was sold as a matched pair, with the mid pipe designed to fit the NON-factory headers, therefore your newer (slip on) mid pipe would not fit the older TBR headers, different outlet orientation on the older headers.
Bummer...thank you for pointing that out. I really like how it looks (and performs) even with the cat header. It looks like I will have to consider the 98-99 header ceramic coated or a Delkavic or some other header. Cheers, R.
[image: attachicon.gif]VFR1.JPG
[image: attachicon.gif]VFR2.JPG
If you look up a few posts at my video, that is a fifth gen two brothers header fitted to a sixth gen two brothers slip on. It was pretty straight forward. The diameter wad right but the orientation was slightly off. I just cut both the mid pipe and the slip on, towards the header side and reangled them and welded them together.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Switchblade
Fit the 8th gen ?
I have heard that the fifth and 8th gen exhausts are 100% interchangeable.
RRM, Yours is a slip on only, intended to bolt to the factory Honda head pipes.
The original TBR full system was sold as a matched pair, with the mid pipe designed to fit the NON-factory headers, therefore your newer (slip on) mid pipe would not fit the older TBR headers, different outlet orientation on the older headers.
Bummer...thank you for pointing that out. I really like how it looks (and performs) even with the cat header. It looks like I will have to consider the 98-99 header ceramic coated or a Delkavic or some other header. Cheers, R.
[image: attachicon.gif]VFR1.JPG
[image: attachicon.gif]VFR2.JPG
If you look up a few posts at my video, that is a fifth gen two brothers header fitted to a sixth gen two brothers slip on. It was pretty straight forward. The diameter wad right but the orientation was slightly off. I just cut both the mid pipe and the slip on, towards the header side and reangled them and welded them together.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Switchblade
Fit the 8th gen ?
I have heard that the fifth and 8th gen exhausts are 100% interchangeable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mite help if Two Brothers know this .
Pretty sure the 8th gen is gonna be hit.
I made TBR aware that 5th gen after market exhausts have already been installed on 2014 VFR800. Their position is "The 1998-2001 header has not been tested by us on the 02-09 or the new 2014 model."
We know what fits and how... this is a CYA response. If this re-release comes to be than hopefully some of our California brethren who purchase can swing by TBR in Santa Ana to show them the header installed on a 6th or 8th gen VFR800 so they can support the models.
This morning's updated list:
1.Rush2112 - Full w/ CF muffler please!
2.JDMBird83
3.HighSideNZ - Headers
4.mspence82 - Headers + (6th gen single muffler, black series, with a matched midpipe to the header)
5.RRM - Headers
6-9.CornerCarver - 4 sets, 1 with alloy can, 1 with carbon can and 2 sets of headers only
RRM, Yours is a slip on only, intended to bolt to the factory Honda head pipes.
The original TBR full system was sold as a matched pair, with the mid pipe designed to fit the NON-factory headers, therefore your newer (slip on) mid pipe would not fit the older TBR headers, different outlet orientation on the older headers.
Bummer...thank you for pointing that out. I really like how it looks (and performs) even with the cat header. It looks like I will have to consider the 98-99 header ceramic coated or a Delkavic or some other header. Cheers, R.
If you're interested you could still use your slip-on with the TBR header if you use a custom mid-pipe like CandyRed....
So akrapovic is already making a slip on for the 8th gens available in the Honda accessory catalog. Let's make contact with them also, let them know that there is a huge demand for a full system! It will be on the pricey side, but let's be honest, akrapovic make the absolute hands down best exhausts.
I am sending my TBR system off to jet hot coating in Charlotte for a complete coat before I powder coat my frame this winter so I have an original that could be used if someone wants to set up a jig and produce this item in stainless (or titanium).
Greg from TBR confirmed all stainless steel tubing to be used in the construction of these exhausts...
So akrapovic is already making a slip on for the 8th gens available in the Honda accessory catalog. Let's make contact with them also, let them know that there is a huge demand for a full system! It will be on the pricey side, but let's be honest, akrapovic make the absolute hands down best exhausts.
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On the pricey side!!?? What do you consider $900 for the TBR? Chump change? :beer:
I am a poor engineering student and I have to make a lot of sacrifices to save up for all of my mods, but with that being said, yes $900 for a full system is chump change. I paid $830 for my 10 year old two brothers full system, Then I spent a weekend pulling out the dents and adapting it to my 6th gen slip-on. Then I had to spend another $160 to have it ceramic coated. So yes I would have gladly spent $900, to have just bolted on a cherry, brand new full system.
I'd be in if they can include a 6th gen compatible mid pipe, or adaptor to mate up with other slip ons for the 6th gen..
Dave. (Want to keep my 'tunes)
Or offer a proper dual exhaust fitment for the 6th gen. I never cared for the stash setup.
Here's a counter offer to TBR. Make the headers in stainless, which I understand is the proposition. Further, fabricate an adaptor pipe to allow either 5. 6th or 8th gens to allow any slipon setup to work. :-)
I'd be in if they can include a 6th gen compatible mid pipe, or adaptor to mate up with other slip ons for the 6th gen..
Dave. (Want to keep my 'tunes)
Or offer a proper dual exhaust fitment for the 6th gen. I never cared for the stash setup.
Here's a counter offer to TBR. Make the headers in stainless (they are, read post #43), which I understand is the proposition . Further, fabricate an adaptor pipe to allow either 5. 6th or 8th gens to allow any slipon setup to work. :-)
It is a re-release of a performance exhaust system for '98-2001 VFR800 based on the RC45 architecture... if you want real performance exhaust headers for your 6th gen, and not just a catless stock replacement, then buy the headers and have a mid pipe fabbed to fit your existing slip-on.
The single TBR muffler on the 6th gen is for performance and the stash pipe was made to balance it visually... if splitting the exhaust stream in two under the seat would have given performance gains TBR would split the exhaust...
I received confirmation and additional info/pricing for the headers. I updated the first post to include the info. Excerpt from email today from TBR:
"...the order would need to be for 100 sets in order for us to make them again. Now that can be split between headers & midpipes & hardware AND complete systems. But the Header & Midpipe & Hardware set cannot be split. They are $599.98 for that package. The tubing will be made from stainless steel as well..."
We now have the opportunity to buy brand new from TBR the exhaust headers that provide proven performance gains on the VFR800s. If you want to retain your existing slip-on than use the cash saved to have a mid-pipe made. If you have a 6th gen this system always needed a custom mid-pipe to work, so there is no change...
... except that now we have the opportunity to get it NIB instead of fishing auction sites for years and paying more for a used set-up!
If your interested in either the headers ($600) or full system ($800 w/ aluminum can, $900 for CF can) post up so we can get a count and try to get these dream parts available again...
I received confirmation and additional info/pricing for the headers. I updated the first post to include the info. Excerpt from email today from TBR:
"...the order would need to be for 100 sets in order for us to make them again. Now that can be split between headers & midpipes & hardware AND complete systems. But the Header & Midpipe & Hardware set cannot be split. They are $599.98 for that package. The tubing will be made from stainless steel as well..."
We now have the opportunity to buy brand new from TBR the exhaust headers that provide proven performance gains on the VFR800s. If you want to retain your existing slip-on than use the cash saved to have a mid-pipe made. If you have a 6th gen this system always needed a custom mid-pipe to work, so there is no change...
... except that now we have the opportunity to get it NIB instead of fishing auction sites for years and paying more for a used set-up!
If your interested in either the headers ($600) or full system ($800 w/ aluminum can, $900 for CF can) post up so we can get a count and try to get these dream parts available again...
Yeow this is getting tempting, but timing is terrible. :unsure:
I am pretty tempted by this, I might be able to tell you to put me down for a full aluminum system if I knew what the timeline looked like, buying a house so have to be careful where the funds go.
I received confirmation and additional info/pricing for the headers. I updated the first post to include the info. Excerpt from email today from TBR:
"...the order would need to be for 100 sets in order for us to make them again. Now that can be split between headers & midpipes & hardware AND complete systems. But the Header & Midpipe & Hardware set cannot be split. They are $599.98 for that package. The tubing will be made from stainless steel as well..."
We now have the opportunity to buy brand new from TBR the exhaust headers that provide proven performance gains on the VFR800s. If you want to retain your existing slip-on than use the cash saved to have a mid-pipe made. If you have a 6th gen this system always needed a custom mid-pipe to work, so there is no change...
... except that now we have the opportunity to get it NIB instead of fishing auction sites for years and paying more for a used set-up!
If your interested in either the headers ($600) or full system ($800 w/ aluminum can, $900 for CF can) post up so we can get a count and try to get these dream parts available again...
Yeow this is getting tempting, but timing is terrible. :unsure:
I am not sure the timing looks good or bad.
I think it will take 8-10 months to get maxed out on our count and we may still not be close to 100.
If we do get close I will probably take a few extra sets for those that may want them later...
I received confirmation and additional info/pricing for the headers. I updated the first post to include the info. Excerpt from email today from TBR:
"...the order would need to be for 100 sets in order for us to make them again. Now that can be split between headers & midpipes & hardware AND complete systems. But the Header & Midpipe & Hardware set cannot be split. They are $599.98 for that package. The tubing will be made from stainless steel as well..."
We now have the opportunity to buy brand new from TBR the exhaust headers that provide proven performance gains on the VFR800s. If you want to retain your existing slip-on than use the cash saved to have a mid-pipe made. If you have a 6th gen this system always needed a custom mid-pipe to work, so there is no change...
... except that now we have the opportunity to get it NIB instead of fishing auction sites for years and paying more for a used set-up!
If your interested in either the headers ($600) or full system ($800 w/ aluminum can, $900 for CF can) post up so we can get a count and try to get these dream parts available again...
Yeow this is getting tempting, but timing is terrible. :unsure:
I am not sure the timing looks good or bad.
I think it will take 8-10 months to get maxed out on our count and we may still not be close to 100.
If we do get close I will probably take a few extra sets for those that may want them later...
LOL... I hear ya Man! I'm counting on Christmas money :cool:
... go without 1 cup of coffee a day and you'll have the money saved up in time :D
Wow, with just changing to the TBR full system? No gearing changes or anything else?
Race headers or a complete system won't get full benefit without addressing the engine as a whole... intake and fueling need to be adjusted to make full benefit of the increased performance
vfrcapn
Rush2112
We now have the opportunity to buy brand new from TBR the exhaust headers that provide proven performance gains on the VFR800s.
Do you have some documentation or links that show the performance gains?
These race headers have been around for about 15 yrs... they are sought after unobtanium that we have a chance to resurrect. I have seen dyno charts and builds made with these exhaust systems over the years but I didn't archive them... if your truly interested and you have the time you can find them with searches. Please share your results...
Could they do any additions like O2 bungs (at least 2 or possibly 4)? I currently have a 98-99 header on my 2001 and had it ceramic coated. I thought about doing a PCV at one point with the autotune after everything was done, but can't without the bungs. The Rapid Bike deal is going on now too, but without the bungs, it seems like you won't get the full benefit.
They're race headers without O2 sensor bungs. The Rapid Bike Tune My Bike module comes with an O2 sensor and bungs if you want them or they can be purchased and welded on pretty easy by most shops or muffler places.
Do you want to throw your hat in and be added to the list?
mello dude
Rush2112...
If your interested in either the headers ($600) or full system ($800 w/ aluminum can, $900 for CF can) post up so we can get a count and try to get these dream parts available again...
Yeow this is getting tempting, but timing is terrible. :unsure:
It will likely be a few months before we get the numbers to get production. Would you like to be added to the list?
Spiff
I am pretty tempted by this, I might be able to tell you to put me down for a full aluminum system if I knew what the timeline looked like, buying a house so have to be careful where the funds go.
Judging by your profile you would need just the headers and purchase a custom mid-pipe for your 6th gen instead of the full aluminum system.
Could always ask them if they will do less units for more $ per unit. Personally I think they are playing hard ball though if they are indeed the same as the VFR2014, I am sure they have already tested them and know this... If they still have the original jigs then its not hard to start up production again.
Personally I would throw away that ugly rear muffler if this went through anyway, they are ugly as sin. Those header pipes with an Austin Racing can would be nice :)
Could they do any additions like O2 bungs (at least 2 or possibly 4)? I currently have a 98-99 header on my 2001 and had it ceramic coated. I thought about doing a PCV at one point with the autotune after everything was done, but can't without the bungs. The Rapid Bike deal is going on now too, but without the bungs, it seems like you won't get the full benefit.
They're race headers without O2 sensor bungs. The Rapid Bike Tune My Bike module comes with an O2 sensor and bungs if you want them or they can be purchased and welded on pretty easy by most shops or muffler places.
Do you want to throw your hat in and be added to the list?
Sure, put me down. I really like my Micron slip-on, but I think I would just do the whole system with CF can.
2001 VFR800 w/ K&N filter + TBR full system: 102.31 Hp, 53.24 ft/lbs... +7.4 Hp, max Tq unchanged
[image: gallery_19432_6921_24801.jpg]
[image: gallery_19432_6921_36652.jpg]
2001 VFR800 w/ K&N filter + TBR full system + PC2 mapped: 106.4Hp, 55.2 ft/lbs... +11.5 Hp, +2 ft/lbs throughout much smoother torque curve and the engine breathes better at the top with no drop off in power at 10.5k rpms
2001 VFR800 w/ K&N filter + TBR full system: 102.31 Hp, 53.24 ft/lbs... +7.4 Hp, max Tq unchanged
[image: gallery_19432_6921_24801.jpg]
[image: gallery_19432_6921_36652.jpg]
2001 VFR800 w/ K&N filter + TBR full system + PC2 mapped: 106.4Hp, 55.2 ft/lbs... +11.5 Hp, +2 ft/lbs throughout much smoother torque curve and the engine breathes better at the top with no drop off in power at 10.5k rpms
A 12% gain in power for just an exhaust and fuel tune only is phenomenal. Can you imagine with an actual performance filter, velocity stacks, some porting and added ignition advance??? I can!
So you pick up about 8 hp, not bad, only $100/ hp. :comp13:
Why are you on this thread?
Maybe because $1k is a good chunk of change for a small to moderate HP gain. Current full systems are still around $1k+, so the price isn't completely ridiculous.
Tried looking for some dyno charts, because I wanted to see if there was much of a HP difference between an 00/01, and a 98/99. I have no idea how much of a HP gain you can get just from losing the cats. I'm sure they are somewhere.
Also, I paid $600 for my complete SS 5th gen TBR header in good shape, so how much you paid for yours doesn't have much to do with the value of the header so much as how much more money you're willing to throw at the problem than other people.
According to vfrmonkey, his TBR equipped VFR had 117.8 HP. The problem is, I don't know what dyno that was run on or the stock HP numbers. I think his build thread got lost in one of the site crashes.
So you pick up about 8 hp, not bad, only $100/ hp. :comp13:
Why are you on this thread?
...
Tried looking for some dyno charts, because I wanted to see if there was much of a HP difference between an 00/01, and a 98/99. I have no idea how much of a HP gain you can get just from losing the cats. I'm sure they are somewhere.
...
BikeZ.com lists the 1998 specs from Honda at 110 Hp... the 2001 at 106 Hp. -4 hp possibly due to emissions controls, more narrow primary exhaust pipes in the catted 5th gens, and I think they may have had different cams. These are most likely engine crank Hp numbers and not rear wheel Hp like those measured at a dyno. I believe most stock 5th gens dyno charts I've seen put out about 93 - 95 rwhp...
Spiff
Ok so just to reiterate, on the 5th gen, the TBR slip ons will or will not fit this particular header and mid pipe?
The new mid-pipe with the headers and will exit around where the muffler should be... I don't know what kind of diameter and inlet fittings are on your muffler. The slip-on mid-pipe that you have will not match up with the angle and placement of the TBR headers outlet, you would need to use the mid-pipe that comes with the headers. I emailed TBR for clarification.
The new mid-pipe with the headers and will exit around where the muffler should be... I don't know what kind of diameter and inlet fittings are on your muffler. The slip-on mid-pipe that you have will not match up with the angle and placement of the TBR headers outlet, you would need to use the mid-pipe that comes with the headers. I emailed TBR for clarification.
Keep me posted, if my current slip ons will work, make me down for headers and mid pipe only, if not I will take it all.
So you pick up about 8 hp, not bad, only $100/ hp. :comp13:
That's about average rule of thumb for modern motorcycle engine performance improvements... the key is making combined changes that build on each other and have a synergistic effect gaining greater improvement than the individual changes could produce on their own...
For example, the 35 mm primaries on the TBR headers (which btw are the same size as the RC45) provide less back pressure to improve top end performance, the equal length primaries 4-2-1 headers help maintain mid-range torque, but these are further enhanced by proper fuel injection mapping providing greater hp & tq gains than either could provide on their own.
So you pick up about 8 hp, not bad, only $100/ hp. :comp13:
That's about average rule of thumb for modern motorcycle engine performance improvements...
I see, it just seems like so much money for so little return. But that's the cheapskate in me talking, I've spent as much or more for even less improvements. The idea for the header only intrigues me though. I had a TB slip-on before I got my present pipe and didn't care for the sound. Too tinny. I'll have to keep an watch and see what the thing looks like when done so I know if I can get a connector pipe for my pipe I have now. I like the sound, but headers just seem like a cool idea.
I had a TB slip-on before I got my present pipe and didn't care for the sound. Too tinny.
From what I've heard, the CF ones have more growl. Not sure which one you had though. I hated the aluminum D&D's, but my GF has a CF D&D on her 2000 VFR and it sounds really good.
The new mid-pipe with the headers and will exit around where the muffler should be... I don't know what kind of diameter and inlet fittings are on your muffler. The slip-on mid-pipe that you have will not match up with the angle and placement of the TBR headers outlet, you would need to use the mid-pipe that comes with the headers. I emailed TBR for clarification.
Keep me posted, if my current slip ons will work, make me down for headers and mid pipe only, if not I will take it all.
TBR response:
"We would have to get a bike in here to fit up since we don’t have a jig still from that bike. But, if the orders we’re enough of just headers and midpipe kit we would make it so the old style would fit also"
So you pick up about 8 hp, not bad, only $100/ hp. :comp13:
Why are you on this thread?
Last time I checked this was an open forum. Or did you decide that critics can't post? Just those who agree with you? Don't be an asshat.
If this is such a great deal then it can stand up to a little questioning, or criticism.
I would think someone that's complaining about an average price exhaust with above average gains that we have just shown you, would be the ass hat. Especially in doing so while we are trying to organize an important group buy.
So you pick up about 8 hp, not bad, only $100/ hp. :comp13:
Why are you on this thread?
Last time I checked this was an open forum. Or did you decide that critics can't post? Just those who agree with you? Don't be an asshat.
If this is such a great deal then it can stand up to a little questioning, or criticism.
I would think someone that's complaining about an average price exhaust with above average gains that we have just shown you, would be the ass hat. Especially in doing so while we are trying to organize an important group buy. You've already stated you're too much of a cheap skate to buy a full exhaust, so again why even bother criticizing?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Whether the deal is great or not is a personal opinion based on the value to the individual. If it doesn't have value to you that's fine; it's also fine if it does have value to others. Questioning and constructive criticism are welcome contributions to advancing knowledge. Sarcasm in the written word can often be misinterpreted. Let's keep this civil everyone.
"We would have to get a bike in here to fit up since we don’t have a jig still from that bike. But, if the orders we’re enough of just headers and midpipe kit we would make it so the old style would fit also"
Old style as in 98-01 slip on, or old style as in 6th gen slip on? Currently on an 05, thats what I am curious about, sorry for the questions.
"We would have to get a bike in here to fit up since we don’t have a jig still from that bike. But, if the orders we’re enough of just headers and midpipe kit we would make it so the old style would fit also"
Old style as in 98-01 slip on, or old style as in 6th gen slip on? Currently on an 05, thats what I am curious about, sorry for the questions.
Any 6th gen application will require the fabrication or modification of a mid-pipe to accomodate the undertail exhaust. This is the TBR 5th gen ('98-'01) full system or headers+mid-pipe being made available. There never was a 6th gen TBR full system. The headers do fit the 6th gen engine
Any 6th gen application will require the fabrication or modification of a mid-pipe to accomodate the undertail exhaust. This is the TBR 5th gen ('98-'01) full system or headers+mid-pipe being made available. There never was a 6th gen TBR full system. The headers do fit the 6th gen engine
Well damn, a guy had hopes and dreams and you bashed them to pieces, now I am going to complain for 3 more posts about it.
Just kidding, ok then well mark me down for a full system, can't decide between aluminum and cf. I tend to not care for the CF much, that's just me though. Thanks for the information Rush, you are the champ!
Any 6th gen application will require the fabrication or modification of a mid-pipe to accomodate the undertail exhaust. This is the TBR 5th gen ('98-'01) full system or headers+mid-pipe being made available. There never was a 6th gen TBR full system. The headers do fit the 6th gen engine
Well damn, a guy had hopes and dreams and you bashed them to pieces, now I am going to complain for 3 more posts about it.
Just kidding, ok then well mark me down for a full system, can't decide between aluminum and cf. I tend to not care for the CF much, that's just me though. Thanks for the information Rush, you are the champ!
are you sure?!? The full system will be a 5th gen full system with a side mount muffler... I'm thinking for a 6th gen, if it was me, I'd get the header+mid-pipe set and an after market 6th gen undertail muffler (if you don't already have one) then fab up a mid-pipe to make the connection
are you sure?!? The full system will be a 5th gen full system with a side mount muffler... I'm thinking for a 6th gen, if it was me, I'd get the header+mid-pipe set and an after market 6th gen undertail muffler (if you don't already have one) then fab up a mid-pipe to make the connection
I have thought about this, I have the TBR slip ons for the 6th gen already. I also have zero know how on metal fabrication and there isn't many places around here. Don't mark me down for anything, let me do some research first. I was under the impression that the headers would bolt right up to the engine, the midpipe and slip ons would work out.
are you sure?!? The full system will be a 5th gen full system with a side mount muffler... I'm thinking for a 6th gen, if it was me, I'd get the header+mid-pipe set and an after market 6th gen undertail muffler (if you don't already have one) then fab up a mid-pipe to make the connection
I have thought about this, I have the TBR slip ons for the 6th gen already. I also have zero know how on metal fabrication and there isn't many places around here. Don't mark me down for anything, let me do some research first. I was under the impression that the headers would bolt right up to the engine, the midpipe and slip ons would work out.
Get with CandyRedRC46... He has a 6th gen with TBR slipons and the TBR headers already. He can give you the best advice on what it would entail to get it to work.
I would think with the slip-on mid-pipe and the new headers mid-pipe it would be a simple cut and weld operation that many shops or muffler joints could do.
Oh, c'mon--this is easy. Just tell TBR that their buddies over at Erion Racing will re-start manufacturing their 5th-gen headers with only 25 confirmed orders... :wink:
Oh, c'mon--this is easy. Just tell TBR that their buddies over at Erion Racing will re-start manufacturing their 5th-gen headers with only 25 confirmed orders... :wink:
Ciao,
LOL... I thought about pitting one against the other! I contacted TBR first so I figured I'd give them a chance to do the right thing... We'll see what happens...
Erions had some serious large primary diameters... if the info I collected is accurate they are actually bigger (39mm) than the HRC (38mm) RC45 headers !?! A little too big for our street bikes...
BTW, my '99 CA spec bike made 93 rwhp with the TBros header. The new 49-state motor feels like it's making a bunch more but all up top for sure.
Real world, around town, I don't see a benefit to having an extra 6 hp all over 9K, I go to that space so infrequently. But it's there if needed. And they're stainless so they'll hold up better.
pm me and i will send you detailed pictures of the mid pipe fabrication and info on any questions regarding it.
Or if there are any plans or diagrams that would be helpful too. It seems like there would be shops all over that could fab that up if they knew the specs.
JZH
Oh, c'mon--this is easy. Just tell TBR that their buddies over at Erion Racing will re-start manufacturing their 5th-gen headers with only 25 confirmed orders... :wink:
Ciao,
I think you mean his brother . . . I've got to scrape the rust off my memory, but IIRC Kevin Erion split off from his brother Craig to form Erion racing.
I hear everyone about Erion... Keep in mind Erion are true race headers and have even larger primaries than the TBR which could lead to substantial low end power loss traded for peak horsepower. Is this what you want?
I emailed Erion to find out there position on re-releasing.
I hear everyone about Erion... Keep in mind Erion are true race headers and have even larger primaries than the TBR which could lead to substantial low end power loss traded for peak horsepower. Is this what you want?
pm me and i will send you detailed pictures of the mid pipe fabrication and info on any questions regarding it.
Or if there are any plans or diagrams that would be helpful too. It seems like there would be shops all over that could fab that up if they knew the specs.
JZH
Oh, c'mon--this is easy. Just tell TBR that their buddies over at Erion Racing will re-start manufacturing their 5th-gen headers with only 25 confirmed orders... :wink:
Ciao,
I think you mean his brother . . . I've got to scrape the rust off my memory, but IIRC Kevin Erion split off from his brother Craig to form Erion racing.
Yes, well, Erion Racing was formed when the "two brothers" very acrimoniously split up. The story was that they didn't even speak to each other for years. I was making a joke about their rivalry possibly working to our advantage. Joking aside, they might be persuaded anyway, if they still have the jigs the used to make my Erion full system.
I wonder if TBR is thinking of producing 2014 VFR exhausts anyway, and just wants to get their re-tooling cost covered before committing? I don't see 100 confirmed pre-orders ever happening, but the closer we get the more likely they will do it anyway...
Has anyone considered Akrapovic? They have a slipon for the 2014 already, maybe they could be convinced to make a batch of titanium headers aswell ;) Wouldn't be anywhere near as cheap though ahaha
Do you have a link to the specs/write up on that bike?
That looks like a Tyga catalog special... RC30 VFR400 with their race exhaust & RC211V body work kit with custom paint job ...
I think that tail is going on my track bike :D
So if we went with Tyga, those of us with 6th gens, would we have to replace our existing exhaust? Any ideas on what that would look like?
Our goal to this point has been to get a manufacturer to make us headers that will meet our specs... one of those requests is a stock discharge location for the headers so existing slip-ons would work... hopefully, Tyga will accept our dimensions and specs and we will all be happy campers :beer:
@Voided... that would be a good point to reiterate in a follow-up conversation with Tyga so they are aware up front that we want these headers to function for as many members VFR800 owners as possible...
Our goal to this point has been to get a manufacturer to make us headers that will meet our specs... one of those requests is a stock discharge location for the headers so existing slip-ons would work... hopefully, Tyga will accept our dimensions and specs and we will all be happy campers :beer:
@Voided... that would be a good point to reiterate in a follow-up conversation with Tyga so they are aware up front that we want these headers to function for as many members VFR800 owners as possible...
If they still have exhaust cans for our bikes some of us might not be opposed to getting a new can as well, if the price was right of course.
If Tyga comes through and makes a full race, left exit system like that for our bikes, you will see my two brothers full system in the classifieds and my name on your list....
Our goal to this point has been to get a manufacturer to make us headers that will meet our specs... one of those requests is a stock discharge location for the headers so existing slip-ons would work... hopefully, Tyga will accept our dimensions and specs and we will all be happy campers :beer:
@Voided... that would be a good point to reiterate in a follow-up conversation with Tyga so they are aware up front that we want these headers to function for as many members VFR800 owners as possible...
If they still have exhaust cans for our bikes some of us might not be opposed to getting a new can as well, if the price was right of course.
Of course having that option is great... what we don't want is people having to buy a full system if they are already happy with their existing slip-ons and they just want the headers. Using the stock header discharge location gives the best of both worlds and allows for use on the most bikes.
Do you have a link to the specs/write up on that bike?
Of course having that option is great... what we don't want is people having to buy a full system if they are already happy with their existing slip-ons and they just want the headers. Using the stock header discharge location gives the best of both worlds and allows for use on the most bikes.
No I agree with this. I am just thinking outside the box. Granted I would be more interested in hearing what the Tyga system sounds like.
If Tyga comes through and makes a full race, left exit system like that for our bikes, you will see my two brothers full system in the classifieds and my name on your list....
How would a left exit work on the 6th gens with it going under the tail, still under the tail just on the left side?
If Tyga comes through and makes a full race, left exit system like that for our bikes, you will see my two brothers full system in the classifieds and my name on your list....
And yours will be the second ad posted for a TBros full system.... :wink:
Tyga is very well known in the 400cc "Grey Bike" world. They do good work. I think it was set up by a couple of UK expats, so communication should not be an issue.
I finally got around to bumping their email about the header deal.
lets hope they pick up the ball and run with it Monday. I promised pictures of the Two bro's, Erion, 98 headers, etc, so pretty please guys , some pics and links to your choice shots? I don't wanna have to do 2 hours of legwork if 5 different people can do 10 mins worth and achieve the result, lol.
so Paul, told me to email bomb him specs and pictures... and I damn sure did.
I made sure to include Delkevic's findings, with their +3-4 hp garbage bin header, because, if that 4-1 was done right? it could be on par with the two bro's. we don't know. big dia. primaries, and a nice tapered discharge to midpipe, and 15* knifed elongated 4 way collector could be just as potent. and it'd be cheaper. and easier to fit, no doubt.
so Paul, told me to email bomb him specs and pictures... and I damn sure did.
I made sure to include Delkevic's findings, with their +3-4 hp garbage bin header, because, if that 4-1 was done right? it could be on par with the two bro's. we don't know. big dia. primaries, and a nice tapered discharge to midpipe, and 15* knifed elongated 4 way collector could be just as potent. and it'd be cheaper. and easier to fit, no doubt.
1 collector vs 3, after all.
None of the HRC or previously made race headers for Honda V4s used 4 into 1 primary merge... even stock headers don't use it. If was equivalent or better Honda would have used it to reduce production costs. Please stick with the previously agreed to specs to avoid over complicating the discussion with Tyga.
I brought it up to them in case they wanted to test the two different layouts.
the specs I layed out are the two bro's style.
I understand... personally, I don't have time for anymore R&D. The info on what works is available now. I'm about to have a one off set fabricated if this goes on much longer...
I'm about to have a one off set fabricated if this goes on much longer...
If you can find someone to make the goddamn things?
I have a tubing bender, a notcher, and can easily find someone with a TIG welder. No need to reinvent the wheel here just make a quality header that's lighter, and better flowing than the stock unit. I don't have the time to make 'em for 20 people though, and I'd prefer to not have to make 'em myself.
I'll tag em again today, and see where they're at, as far as the header.
You know... MBrane. could be money in it if you did!
Not enough to break even let alone make a profit when I consider what my time is worth. This is the main problem we face here. There simply isn't enough demand to make it worthwhile hence 2 Bro's demand of 100 sets to produce.
It's not a demand issue, it's a catch 22 issue. Probably more VFR800 engines out there than most other bikes, with an exhaust header config covering 16 years. But as no one makes a performance header no one can buy one. The demand exists, based on Motad, Delkevic & Sandy Bike Spares, all making replacement headers. They have been making & selling these for 15 years. They are complex & time consuming to make, but if they can bring these in for £350/$550 then a performance version could be made for the same price & if you want to clean up the market that would be your target price.
Edited by Mohawk, 26 September 2014 - 01:15 AM.
My father lives near Bangkok currently. I could possibly see if he might be able to source a vfr. Highly doubtful though, only big bikes out there are harleys, and if it's not a harley, it's likely no more than 250cc.
well... upon some more research... lol... I have relaized TYGA motorsports is in BANGKOK, THAILAND.
*facepalm*
I wonder if they could find a VFR800 out there to work on.
Maybe a team member is ready to ship his two bro's to thailand to be measured, copied, ect? lol
Better to send an early 5th gen... need the mounting and discharge locations and shape for clearances to make a jig. TBR won't have a stock discharge location as most have requested... I've got one or two if Tyga feels it would be helpful...
I'm going to say that Rod has bowed out of contention, I have sent several emails and left a voice mail and have not heard back from him. Not sure why but I hope everything is OK on his side.
I'm going to say that Rod has bowed out of contention, I have sent several emails and left a voice mail and have not heard back from him. Not sure why but I hope everything is OK on his side.
Yes, its been discussed and I am scheduled to look at the feasibility on my next visit to the factory which is late November/early December of this year. Should know more then.
Thanks
Paul"
So a 36 - 41 - 48 is in the nearly prototype works from Delkevic I think?
I bumped Tyga as well:
"Hi Michael
I am sorry for the lack of response. However, we have had a busy week with many projects, new product launches etc and testing (my business partner is a test rider for Ohlins) etc. We will give you a full and comprehensive reply as soon as we have cleared these urgent tasks.
Best regards
Paul"
One seems a lil more likely than the other... but I am holding out for 'ol Tyga. I get the feeling their shit would be perfect. still it would be nice to have a (cheap) 36mm primary option from the Delkevic boys.
So a 36 - 41 - 48 is in the nearly prototype works from Delkevic I think?
I'm assuming those numbers are ID... Why did you change the dimensions and go larger on the primary and secondaries and smaller on the collector? The smaller collector will have play in the fitment with peoples current slip-on mid-pipes and may require a thin gasket... the larger dimensions of the primary & secondary tubes do not mean increased performance for most of the applications of this exhaust.
We based the dimensions on RC45 & TBR dimensions and had agreed to:
18 gauge 304 stainless steel with 1.5" tubing primaries, 1.63" tubing secondaries, 2.0" header collector discharge results in: ~35.6 mm ID primaries ~39 mm ID secondaries ~49mm ID header collector discharge
... basically, the same dimensions as the RC45 & TBR except that the primaries would be 35.6mm instead of 35mm.
Going from 35mm to 36mm results in a 5.8% increase in cross sectional area; while increasing the secondaries from 39mm to 41mm results in a 10.5% increase... then the collector clamps down and gets smaller by -4%
So a 36 - 41 - 48 is in the nearly prototype works from Delkevic I think?
I'm assuming those numbers are ID... Why did you change the dimensions and go larger on the primary and secondaries and smaller on the collector? The smaller collector will have play in the fitment with peoples current slip-on mid-pipes and may require a thin gasket... the larger dimensions of the primary & secondary tubes do not mean increased performance for most of the applications of this exhaust.
We based the dimensions on RC45 & TBR dimensions and had agreed to:
18 gauge 304 stainless steel with 1.5" tubing primaries, 1.63" tubing secondaries, 2.0" header collector discharge results in: ~35.6 mm ID primaries ~39 mm ID secondaries ~49mm ID header collector discharge
... basically, the same dimensions as the RC45 & TBR except that the primaries would be 35.6mm instead of 35mm.
Going from 35mm to 36mm results in a 5.8% increase in cross sectional area; while increasing the secondaries from 39mm to 41mm results in a 10.5% increase... then the collector clamps down and gets smaller by -4%
Can you help us understand the reason for this?
@Voided... please confirm the dimensions and configuration you have submitted to Delkevic & Tyga on behalf of the forum
tell snowy/them, if they can get adjusted, up high, or closer to stock, and utilize a shift rod, aka, easy quick-shift setup, they'll have piles of money from the rapidbike crowd.
tell snowy/them, if they can get adjusted, up high, or closer to stock, and utilize a shift rod, aka, easy quick-shift setup, they'll have piles of money from the rapidbike crowd.
I know I'll own a set, in that case. no question.
I didn't post my email to them, but that was one of the opportunities I highlighted... the ability to go to a GP shift pattern and to utilize a quick shifter for the RapidBike Race or other unit.
I'll convey a list of adjustment/set-up inputs if people want to contribute... I'm not sure what you mean by "if they can get adjusted, up high, or closer to stock"???
Are you asking for the range of adjustability from stock location to a higher setting? How high or back do you want?
Ya the 5th gen ones don't just bolt on like other bikes do.
Harris made some and they were incredibly overpriced. Very complicated to machine as compared to a Gixxer or R1 for example, where they just bolt onto the frame with two Allen head bolts.
Put me down for 5 Gen rear set...and a maybe for 6 Gen. Year end funds will dictate one or both.
As a guy who has owned more than a couple of 5G VFR's if you want rear sets just swap in the cush from the 6G and buy a set of whatever Tyga provides for the 6G rearsets.
You will be far ahead in terms of cost and I don't want those guys at Tyga to develop something that wastes their time. If they want I can mail them a set of stock 5G rear sets to see utterly ridiculous the design is and know that they want no part of it.
Keep your eyes peeled on fleabay for the correct 6G parts and bag one when it meets your price point.
As a guy who has owned more than a couple of 5G VFR's if you want rear sets just swap in the cush from the 6G and buy a set of whatever Tyga provides for the 6G rearsets.
Could you be more specific about what parts are needed to convert 5gen to 6gen? ie, what's a "cush" ?
As a guy who has owned more than a couple of 5G VFR's if you want rear sets just swap in the cush from the 6G and buy a set of whatever Tyga provides for the 6G rearsets.
Could you be more specific about what parts are needed to convert 5gen to 6gen? ie, what's a "cush" ?
Swap the lower cushion which is the lower mount that the swing arm mounts to the engine. It also is the partial frame work that the center stand and rear sets mount to...
As a guy who has owned more than a couple of 5G VFR's if you want rear sets just swap in the cush from the 6G and buy a set of whatever Tyga provides for the 6G rearsets.
Could you be more specific about what parts are needed to convert 5gen to 6gen? ie, what's a "cush" ?
Swap the lower cushion which is the lower mount that the swing arm mounts to the engine. It also is the partial frame work that the center stand and rear sets mount to...
I'm going to look into this then. If I can get the part(s) cheap enough, then I might go this route and get a set of 6 Gen rear sets, or two, again pending the year end funds.
5th gen footposts are more readily available from what I've looked on ebay.... but if you're buying 3-4 of these 6th gens and converting, that's different. lol
5th gen footposts are more readily available from what I've looked on ebay.... but if you're buying 3-4 of these 6th gens and converting, that's different. lol
Stock pegs, yes... adjustable rear sets for a 5th gen???
They have been in contact and discussed bringing the bike by Tyga. Their schedule's dictate that it will happen sometime after 11/12 and they will confirm time/date after 11/12/14.
Snowy is out of town... he will contact Tyga after said date...
OK
So what about that header though!?
lol
I'm antsy, all the way into my pantsy about this.
... we're almost there...
...just a little longer....
... if your quiet you can have ice cream when we get there...
OK, so I was reading this thread about some sexy header ideas for about 30 pages and the suspense got to killing me. I jumped to the last page, the started clicking backwards and realized that the header group buy turned into a rear-set group buy?
Can someone give me the clif note version as to where we are with the header group buy? If I haven't missed the boat, I might be in. Discaimer incoming.
There's a guy named snowy that is taking his vfr directly to the tyga facility soon. Then we should have word from tyga on if they want to proceed with headers and or rear sets for our bikes.
OK, so I was reading this thread about some sexy header ideas for about 30 pages and the suspense got to killing me. I jumped to the last page, the started clicking backwards and realized that the header group buy turned into a rear-set group buy?
Can someone give me the clif note version as to where we are with the header group buy? If I haven't missed the boat, I might be in. Discaimer incoming.
The discussion got sidetracked... rear set topic has gotten it's own thread now...
this is the only real shot we've had. besides delkevic teasing my dick about going back to the drawing board about their own header design.
In hindsight, yeah the fuck right... I hate it when CandyRed's salty pessimism is 100% on point.
Lol, sorry, I wasn't trying to be pessimistic. I think tyga sounds very promising and most importantly, I think they are the right company for the job, as their quality blows everyone else out of the water. That a little better? :)
Sorry I'm not all worked up, as I already have headers and rear sets, but I'm rooting for you guys and trying to help where I can.
UPDATE: Snowy's back and looking to schedule with Paul the evaluation and measurements in the next week... more info to be posted when it becomes available
could be more rattling around in there somewhere too. I'm paying especially close attn. to CandyRed's exploratory hotrod thread about his throttle bodies. by the fueling tables it seems like it might pay off, or he could've been lean the whole time, but I doubt that.
UPDATE: Snowy called & texted Tyga. Tyga will be reaching back out to Snowy when they are ready to bring the bike in.
From Tyga:
"Snowy has been in contact and will be visiting us in the next week or so. We will take it from there. Currently, most of our step kits are fixed and not adjustable so I am not sure how the VFR community feel about that. We can move the position to where the majority of users request them but normally it is back and up a little."
My Response:
"Hi Paul,
We are all very excited to hear your thoughts on the exhaust headers and step kits... I must admit I was surprised by your statement about most of your step kits being fixed and not adjustable; upon follow-up review of your website I see that is the case. I guess I only saw what I wanted to see. Would it be possible to offer an adjuster plate to offer some level of adjustability? I feel this level of customization and personalization is a desirable feature within our community.
In addition, I know some of the step kits that members want to purchase are for track bikes based on the VFR800 and the adjustability to get the correct ergonomics is an important feature. I know that may seem unlikely with what is normally a somewhat heavy sport-tourer, but we have been able to achieve significant weight reductions, USD fork conversions, rear suspension upgrades, brake improvements and engine developments. There is a lot of variety and modifications going on in the die hard VFR community.
Looking forward to your evaluation of the VFR possibilities and we eagerly await your response. Thank you!
Best regards,"
"PS: The need for performance exhaust headers for all the VFR800s (track & street from 1998 - 2014) that started our conversation are a integral and crucial part of the further development and improvement of power from these VFR800 engines. If Tyga only has time for one VFR project then the most critical area is the performance headers.
It would be good to get this thread back on track to what it was originally created for, a performance header development.
Currently there are a number of rear set options available for the 6th Gen, Sato to name just one, but we have NO performance header options.
Hence, it would be best to focus on the headers, with the rear sets as an adjunct and maybe in another thread so as not to "muddy the waters" on this one.
It would be good to get this thread back on track to what it was originally created for, a performance header development.
Currently there are a number of rear set options available for the 6th Gen, Sato to name just one, but we have NO performance header options.
Hence, it would be best to focus on the headers, with the rear sets as an adjunct and maybe in another thread so as not to "muddy the waters" on this one.
I agree, we need to keep this thread about the headers...
I started a separate rear set thread and directed conversations that way when possible... I posted the emails in full to keep everyone in the loop on all current conversations rather than parse out relevant info for each thread...
To be honest... it seems Tyga is also steering the discussion towards the rear sets.
I may be reading too much into it, but the email that stated, "If the 6th generation (rear sets) can be made and sell well... It will also be a good indicator of interest and likely sales of the exhaust system" has me feeling like the sales of the rear sets may be used to decide whether they invest the time & energy into the exhaust headers.
Kind board, I'll be pulling my offer to buy as I just don't see this happening. My sincere thanks to all who have worked so hard to make it so. I don't want to waste people's time. Bon Chance!
UPDATE: Spoke with Snowy and he had reached out to Tyga through phone & text. As it stands, Tyga will contact Snowy when they have time. In a nutshell, they are under significant time constraints trying to meet existing obligations without taking on new projects. Hopefully, when they get caught up and things slow down they will be able to contact Snowy and work out a time convenient for him to bring in the bike. It may be a couple of months before that will happen.
Here are the actual emails so you all know what I know...
"Hi Paul,
I'm following up to find out is there an ETA on bringing Snowy's bike in for the evaluation? He has told me he is willing to help and bring his bike by Tyga's facility and he has left the contact and timing up to you.
I understand and respect that you are very busy; I would like to ask if Tyga is not willing to begin production of the VFR800 performance headers would you consider doing a one time batch of 20 headers and what would the pricing be for such a project? I have the tubing specs and general design parameters if needed. Please let me know. Thanks you.
Best regards"
TYGA:
"Thank you for your mail. The situation is not really about being ‘willing’, it is about clearing enough time in the schedule to start new projects. We have an important track day to prepare for this weekend and the bike we are using is having issues with its engine and needed rebuilding 3 times.
We have left it with Snowy that will contact him when it convenient for us and hopefully for him. Our aim is to look at the feasibility of what can be achieved with a view to make the step kits first. However, frankly speaking, there is going to need to be a level of patience that perhaps you are not used to if this is going to happen. It is not that we are not interested or even that we require more information or emails in order to embark on the project. At this stage, we just require more time, a commodity which is in very short supply, with us already working 6.5 day weeks. One thing from our perspective, frankly speaking, is we can’t be pressured into doing this within any give time frame or it is going to end in frustration and disappointment all round. It would be better instead to forget the whole thing. I understand you are keen but we have many projects at any point in time and they all require and deserve our attention. Making sure we deliver on what we already promised to our existing customers, supplier, staff and other stakeholders is our number one priority before starting new projects. Any future projects are just that until we take hard cash, (which we won’t until the project is nearing completion). We think there is potential with the VFR800 and we appreciate your efforts to bring this to our attention along with the technical details you have provided us. Our view is the VFR800s are not going to disappear soon and there will be approx the same level of interest in these products in the coming months as there were in the last few.
As soon as we have a break in the work, we will contact Snowy and in a more relaxed state it will most probably produce a better result.
Sorry if this comes across a bit direct but I think it is advisable we all understand each other clearly.
Best regards
Paul"
My Response:
"Hi Paul,
I'm sorry for the delayed response, I'm traveling extensively for work as of late. Thank you for the honest and direct explanation. I apologize if my enthusiasm came across as pestering; if I had understood the extent of your time constraints I wouldn't have written. I understand and respect your position. I have been working on trying to have these headers made for myself, and later the VFRD group, for more than a year. When we saw the quality of Tyga's craftsmanship and received a positive response to our inquiries I was elated... at last, people who can help. One member described your NC30/35 full race headers as functional art... they are beautiful!
I can only imagine what it is like to work at something you love, you are blessed in this respect; for most of our VFR community our bikes are our pride and an source of immense joy, but we work in a great variety of capacities and can only indulge our passions part time. I genuinely hope that you and Matt don't forget the whole thing and when time allows you can revisit our requests. The VFR800s are great machines that would only be made better with Tyga Performance parts.
Would it be OK to drop you a note and check in a couple of months... March perhaps? Please let me know.
Thank you for your time and consideration of our performance part needs..."
Rush - you are taking the right "tone" with Tyga. I think in the long term, patience will yield something fantastic. It gives us plenty of time to save up.
Rush - you are taking the right "tone" with Tyga. I think in the long term, patience will yield something fantastic. It gives us plenty of time to save up.
+1 the stock header on my 98 has a bit of gravel patina, but is in fine shape otherwise. I'm in no hurry to replace it especially with something mediocre.
Just a little background info... I'm not sure if most are aware of the social unrest in Thailand. There has been protests since 2013 over the President/Leader (whatever he's called) which led to his ousting mid 2014 and a coup d'état... since then the Military has seized control of the government. Marshal law has been imposed...
Snowy is a LEO over there and hopefully he stays safe and out of harms way.
I need to keep patient. If this does come through, I'm still in. Forecasting a long siege = appreciate all everyone has been and is doing. As was said well above, gives more time to save = I'll keep the faith.
Many thanks for the mail below and understanding the situation. We definitely will not forget the projects, it is just a case of clearing the old ones. I would hope we can start before March.
Best regards
Paul
12/3/2014
Hi Paul,
I'm sorry for the delayed response, I'm traveling extensively for work as of late. Thank you for the honest and direct explanation. I apologize if my enthusiasm came across as pestering; if I had understood the extent of your time constraints I wouldn't have written. I understand and respect your position. I have been working on trying to have these headers made for myself, and later the VFRD group, for more than a year. When we saw the quality of Tyga's craftsmanship and received a positive response to our inquiries I was elated... at last, people who can help. One member described your NC30/35 full race headers as functional art... they are beautiful!
I can only imagine what it is like to work at something you love, you are blessed in this respect; for most of our VFR community our bikes are our pride and an source of immense joy, but we work in a great variety of capacities and can only indulge our passions part time. I genuinely hope that you and Matt don't forget the whole thing and when time allows you can revisit our requests. The VFR800s are great machines that would only be made better with Tyga Performance parts.
Would it be OK to drop you a note and check in a couple of months... March perhaps? Please let me know.
Thank you for your time and consideration of our performance part needs..."
As posted earlier (post #626) due to project demands Tyga needs time to clear existing projects... I will be contacting them in March to continue the conversation on having these parts made for our bikes...
:warranty:
I'm glad you are interested and hopefully we will have good news in the Spring! This thread is for the headers and there is another thread relating to 6th gen rear sets.
I'm picking a 5th Gen today that has a stainless header and a TBR slip on. Anyone know if the original TBR header is marked to identify it as a TBR system?
I'm picking a 5th Gen today that has a stainless header and a TBR slip on. Anyone know if the original TBR header is marked to identify it as a TBR system?
If it was a full TBR system the seller would have bragged about it. The TBR header will discharge from a slightly different location so the mid-pipe needs to be different... it wouldn't be a standard slip-on that fits the OEM discharge location. Measure the primary pipe diameters and post a few pics... owners of TBR systems will be able to spot if it is the real deal.
The theory is consistent flow, as even the best mandrel benders reduce flow on bends due to slight crushing. In my opinion it's not as straight forward as that but in the process I have come across something quite interesting to the power curve (bit of a secret) I have come across early findings on this in tuning textbooks written 10 years ago but it is difficult to explain as I don't fully understand it, and nor did they then. I do know is that it isn't used in modern gas wave simulators as it isn't built into the algorithms. It's a bit of a secret among those who have played around with it I think, exhaust development is moving on quite quickly so I am sure they are aware of it and on close inspection I can see at least one motogp team who look like they have. Titanium is fairly easy to work with; the faces have to be perfectly flat for a fusion weld otherwise you risk over stressing the joint from the large weld and it will later crack but generally the ideal sizes are never available otherwise you need to commission £1000's of investment to get a batch made; particularly the tapered sections for the headers. All residual stress needs to be removed from a titanium system otherwise it will crack which normally means welding it between 10-15amps to avoid distortion. You will get through a huge amount of argon so it's worth having the right equipment as doing it in a small shed could put you to sleep for good.
What have you found to be the “ideal” sizes for you primary and secondary exhaust piping dimensions? I know you haven’t been on the site in a few months... I hope it is because you are racing :fing02: :beer: please let us know when you get a chance.
Whatever he found ideal for his highly tuned, bored out race engine would most likely be horrendous on a stock VFR.
I wasn’t asking about a stock VFR engine. I was asking to find out what he has found works for a bored and stroked engine... some of us are working on increased displacement 5th gen engines.
... but yes, you are correct. What works on a bored and stroked engine wouldn’t work as well on a stock engine.
As an aside & talking dimensions, I was looking at buying a Ladybird Ti RC45 HRC copy . On discussion with the vendor, it turns out they used the same primary pipe do ensigns as the TBR full system I have now. The secondaries are narrower, but that is because the HRC system is two times 2-1 where as the TBR is 4-2-1, so for peak flow with no losses in the midrange th3 TBR is a well developed system.
oK it was made to suit a stock 95hp engine & adds about 8hp with nothing more than fuelling mods. It suits my 120hp engine well & Highside NZ is using a cut RC45 system he made himself on his 825c. 140hp motor, but with basically the same dimensions. HRC took the RC45 to around 190hp on those same dimensions, al be it with the afore mentioned 2x2-1 system, with 40mm secondaries.
As an aside & talking dimensions, I was looking at buying a Ladybird Ti RC45 HRC copy . On discussion with the vendor, it turns out they used the same primary pipe do ensigns as the TBR full system I have now. The secondaries are narrower, but that is because the HRC system is two times 2-1 where as the TBR is 4-2-1, so for peak flow with no losses in the midrange th3 TBR is a well developed system.
oK it was made to suit a stock 95hp engine & adds about 8hp with nothing more than fuelling mods. It suits my 120hp engine well & Highside NZ is using a cut RC45 system he made himself on his 825c. 140hp motor, but with basically the same dimensions. HRC took the RC45 to around 190hp on those same dimensions, al be it with the afore mentioned 2x2-1 system, with 40mm secondaries.
what actually stopped the Tyga build ?
Wasn't it because they "required" someone to actually ship them the TBR headers, so they could mock up the system? That and also needing someone to loan them a 5th-Gen for the purposes of mocking up, and...the list goes on.
Now, if you were to ship them your bike, which fortuitously happens to both be a 5th Gen, AND have the requisite headers installed, we might be able to gain some traction on the project.
What Mohawk outlines above is well on the money and the pipe I cut up to adapt for mine was originally a Shark RC45 unit.
I was interesting that it has longer primaries on the front than the back and the secondaries are the opposite, shorter from and longer back.
Primaries are 40mm OD x 1.2mm wall giving 37.6mm ID
Secondaries are 45mm OD x 1.2mm wall giving 42.6mm ID
They seem to work quite well and I think the idea behind the varying length was to try and keep as much mid range as possible.
You need to map the rear and front cylinders completely different on fuelling and you can see the rears are fatter in the mid so again it seems to work pretty well.
Nice, yes very similar sizes to me. Mine just slightly smaller and I use 0.9mm wall. My most recent engine did well making 162hp @13,600rpm with a new design of valve spring + some small refinements elsewhere. Yes the uneven lengths is really important for these bikes as it gives a lovely wide spread of torque.
My next engine is up for testing in 2 weeks with a slightly shorter exhaust this time
Thanks capn. I've been reading this thread from page 1 post 1 to help get me to sleep at night. Better than ambien. It's amazing to see the trajectory of the quest for headers...at one point you were about ready to jetison your TBR [but only if Tyga produced a left exit system for 5th gen]. Your current system is now approaching a valuation near its weight in silver.
End of thread · 221 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 27 Feb 2020
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